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The Quinn Family rally

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Replies: 275
By:
kincsem
When: 01 Aug 12 21:57
The GAA
loyalty to the parish
blame Dublin 4
does not work as a defence.
By:
dj876
When: 01 Aug 12 22:44
Interview with Sean Quinn coming up on Vinny B ,guessing recorded but not sure
By:
GANT007
When: 02 Aug 12 08:32
The 'whatabouery' game will always exist in an inconsistent second rate judicial system............I think the looking over the rim of the glasses class has been replaced with the google copy and paste brigade.
No need to wear glasses these days to look intelligent.
By:
GANT007
When: 02 Aug 12 08:34
Whataboutery............
By:
richters
When: 02 Aug 12 11:59
well said GANT
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 02 Aug 12 13:03
gant had you a good time at the rally? Were you chauffeuring Boylan and O'Rourke about? You get many autographs?
By:
GANT007
When: 02 Aug 12 13:34
It's nice to see a peaceful gathering of people..........I hear your boys don't travel too well across the border.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 02 Aug 12 13:47
What was that gant, you have linked with about 10 diffeent groups at this stage? Laugh

YOu and you're fellow meath headhunters are able to go over and watch the 'Soccer' now. You lads must be proud to see Team GB doing so well at the Olympics. Cool
By:
GANT007
When: 02 Aug 12 13:56
Nothing to do with GB, religion, race or headhunters...........just enjoy top quality soccer and a break away from it all.

That sort of stuff you are on about should be kicked out of loi soccer and people might start going........you can't pay wages with 500/600 attending a match and 70% with cheap season tickets.

Team GB not doing too well.
By:
freddiek
When: 02 Aug 12 13:57
what would boylan and o'rourke be doing there anyway? i can understand the northern boyos backing quinn
By:
GANT007
When: 02 Aug 12 14:10
Maybe they are friends of the Quinns..........Michael O'Leary had his letter of support read out also..........They could have been at a match and stopped for the craic.
By:
freddiek
When: 02 Aug 12 14:57
doubt it. the big names were at the front of the march. seemed like plans were made in advance
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 02 Aug 12 16:32
Exactly Freddie and you can bet your botton dollar gant was there somewhere. He is a firm believe that the brown envelope is part and parcel of Ireland along with defending the parish and blaming D4 for all. In Sligo thankfully we are not so blinkered.
By:
dlarssonf
When: 03 Aug 12 09:46
TAKE ALL the money raised this year by the cuts in child benefit. And from cutting the school clothing and footwear allowance. And all the cuts to jobseekers’ benefit, rent supplement and fuel allowances for the elderly.

Throw in the restriction of one-parent family allowance to children under seven. Pile on all the cuts in back-to-education allowances and community employment schemes. Take all of that money from the pockets of the poorest people in Ireland this year and you still haven’t reached the amount Seán Quinn agrees he owes the Irish taxpayer.

This is nothing to do with the €2.3 billion he borrowed from Anglo Irish Bank to buy its shares. This is the €455 million he borrowed to buy property – using that property as security. In all the noise and distraction, this much is undisputed: Quinn borrowed the money and put up the property assets as collateral. The State, however idiotically, took over that loan. Since Quinn can’t pay it back, the Irish people now own those properties.

There is something else that is not in dispute: that Quinn is openly, flagrantly and quite proudly trying to hang on to this money that belongs to us. As he said on Sunday, he took a “very conscious decision” to do “everything in our power to take as many assets as we could”. The basic intention is very simple – to transfer assets from the Irish people to the Quinn family.

Thus, for example, the status of Karen Woods, a part-time receptionist with Joe Duffy Motors in north Dublin, as recipient of one of the largest public salaries in Ireland. The lucky Karen, then the girlfriend (now the wife) of Seán Quinn jnr, was paid €320,297 after tax (the equivalent of at least €400,000) last year by a Russian company whose assets belong entirely to the Irish people.

This is more than twice what the Taoiseach is paid, with the added refinement that there is no evidence of what work Woods does in return for this salary. Every cent she got, and every euro of the €455 million, is money kept from a State that is, for example, struggling to provide services for young people with intellectual disabilities.

At the same time, but completely separately, every Irish person or business who takes out home, motor or commercial insurance is having to pay the price, quite literally, for Seán Quinn’s mismanagement of his insurance business.

For at least the next 12 years, every time any of us takes out insurance, we will have to pay an extra 2 per cent to recoup the approximately €1.1 billion Quinn lost in his gamble on Quinn Insurance. Thus, even when we leave aside entirely the €2.3 billion Anglo loan, Quinn’s actions are siphoning €1.5 billion from Irish taxpayers, consumers and businesses.

All of this is easy enough to understand. It is underpinned by one of the oldest of human desires, the lure of other people’s money – in this case ours.

What’s more difficult to fathom is the collusion of many respectable people in what Quinn is doing. His shamelessness is made possible by those who tell him that he has nothing to be ashamed of, that, on the contrary, he is the victim in all of this.

Why would 4,000 people turn out in Ballyconnell, Co Cavan, the other night to demand “justice” for the Quinns – though evidently not the kind of justice that would be meted out to someone who deprived the State of €4,550 instead of €455 million?

Why, for example, has Sinn Féin, supposed friend of the downtrodden, expressed its sympathy for Quinn (MP Michelle Gildernew tweeted her support)? Does it see no connection at all between his stripping of public assets and, for example, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin’s complaints about cuts at Cavan General Hospital? How can Sinn Féin demand, as it does, that no one should be paid more than €100,000 a year from public funds while apparently being content for the public to pay Karen Woods four times that?

Fr Brian D’Arcy, who is supposed to be in the morality business, addressed the Ballyconnell rally and essentially credited Quinn with the creation of peace in our time: “He brought peace to the country by creating thousands of jobs.”

Senior GAA figures such as Mickey Harte, Jarlath Burns, Seán Boylan and Colm O’Rourke threw that organisation’s considerable authority behind Quinn’s outright defiance of the courts and determination to hang on to public money. Thus, a formidable if unofficial nexus of Sinn Féin, the GAA and the church is giving Quinn comfort.

This desire to kiss the rod inflicting the pain is surely rooted in something older than the current fad for designer masochism – some twisted notion of ethnic and religious solidarity in which Quinn has to be protected because he’s one of us – a Catholic, nationalist, GAA man.

It can’t be imagined that our oppressors might go to Mass, wear open-necked shirts and support the GAA. But what can’t be imagined either are the silent victims in all of this – the poor who pay for their master’s gambles.
By:
dlarssonf
When: 03 Aug 12 09:46
Irish Times^^^
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 03 Aug 12 10:24
Great article

"some twisted notion of ethnic and religious solidarity in which Quinn has to be protected because he’s one of us – a Catholic, nationalist, GAA man." The logic of gant007
By:
Ozymandius
When: 03 Aug 12 10:34
Ouch!
By:
Tolmi
When: 03 Aug 12 10:38
I had not read that article but it sums up what I was trying to say earlier in this thread.I genuinely think many people fail to realise the extent of the asset stripping being perpetrated and the vast sums involved.

As for Quinn's assertion that his insurance company was profitable and the administrators ruined the business,he fails to mention that as insurance claims take an average of 3 and 1/2 years to settle the majority of the €1,000,000,000 plus loss comes from policies underwritten during Quinn's own tenure.He was operating a giant Ponzi type scheme which would have unravelled eventually.By the way I am not implying he did this deliberately.

In addition it was fascinating to hear Peter Quinn Snr complain that the court system here was unfair/corrupt and the Quinn's could not get a fair trial.Interestingly he forgot to mention that his son had no issues corrupting the justice system by stating that he would have no problem lying under oath.The irony should not be lost on people.
By:
Kelly
When: 03 Aug 12 11:05
The Quinn stones have been pretty well turned over , media have done a good job in that regard generally .  But there are still a lot of other stones unturned , whatever their connections political and otherwise .

One of the other aspects of uncovering the truth ( or a semblance of it ) is the amount paid out to legal eagles . Surely in situations such as we have seen tribunal etc wise there should be some cap on expenditure / rates of "pay" for those involved . From memory some of those involved have lined their pockets substantially .

Know we are paying ( collective we as I live North ) 200k allegedly to those property people who helped create the current debacle  , using their "expertise" to help sort out a mess .  Sad comment on the civil servants who should be educated and streetwise enough to be able to do that without involving the gamekeepers .

Just another stone .  As someone once said "we will leave no stone unturned " . Believe that ?
By:
Arklearkle
When: 03 Aug 12 14:26
Is it true that some (not all of course) of the high profile people who supported the Quinns the other night also owe substantial amounts to banks also. They would be called gambling debts at another level.
By:
Santry
When: 03 Aug 12 16:26
http://joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/meath-gaa-legend-owes-bank-e850k-0015065-1
By:
Arklearkle
When: 03 Aug 12 17:24
A bit like a certain politician advising people not to pay taxes!
By:
mightymoyes
When: 03 Aug 12 19:23
the hoardes of numpties attending rallies and supporters of quinn are a politicians and the ruling classes dream. throw them a few crumbs from your thieving, fraud and deception and they are in your pocket for life.
By:
Vubiant
When: 03 Aug 12 20:51
The vassal class !Laugh
By:
kingrat
When: 03 Aug 12 21:09
as the british aristocracy would say "how very irish"quinn's position and his cohorts is untenable.sean quinn is all washed up,finito!as regards his nephew slithering across the boarder,it shows him up for what he is,gutless!
By:
kingrat
When: 03 Aug 12 22:43
1 thing i will say,having debated the issue with friends and people from the region whom i respect,there was an element of "get quinn" in the whole affair ,i must admit,i do have sympathy for him
By:
mightymoyes
When: 03 Aug 12 22:49
the sorta sympathy you'd have for a snake you hit with a baseball bat after it bit you in the balls?
By:
kingrat
When: 03 Aug 12 23:01
maybe vubiant is right,but we are what we are Wink
By:
jumper
When: 04 Aug 12 09:47

Aug 3, 2012 -- 7:23PM, mightymoyes wrote:


the hoardes of numpties attending rallies and supporters of quinn are a politicians and the ruling classes dream. throw them a few crumbs from your thieving, fraud and deception and they are in your pocket for life.


Sad but so true. There are always in society the sheep who will gladly take the crumbs on offer.

I haven't had time to notice if there's been any polls gauging public reaction to all this. 4,000 turn up for a rally in Cavan, OK, but I would have thought percentage support for the Quinns across the country would be what, 5-10%? Anyone know?

By:
Kelly
When: 04 Aug 12 12:51
Dont think there is much actual support for the Quinns , pretty obvious they were dodging official bullets .

Think there is support for the view that they have been hung out to dry while others have not .  Plus any technicalities as to whether the lending process was above board .

Has to be cleared up legally and politically . Not in 40 years time . But when the state is involved the rules are often given to flexibility ...

But I doubt it will , too many centres of influence at work to allow complete transparency .
By:
Ozymandius
When: 05 Aug 12 11:30
An extract from Gene Kerrigan in todys Indo.

Quinn is no victim of a 'Dub conspiracy'

Sean Quinn's friends and neighbours can't be faulted for their loyalty. It's laudable to go to such a family and say: "Sorry for your trouble. Is there anything I can do?" It's right to say: "Yes, three members of this family have been judged on serious evidence to have broken serious laws.

"But this is not all they are. And we will help them through this hour of need, because that's the kind of people we are. And we know Sean Quinn to be more than a lawbreaker."

But that's not what the Quinn supporters in Ballyconnell said last week. And that is not what Quinn's advocates in the media are saying.

"We stand by our own." That's what they say.

Whatever they did, we stand by our own. And by reason of being good people, our people, whatever they're accused of, there must be a conspiracy against them. They must be victims of those despicable people beyond up in Dublin, bad cess to them.

That is not sympathy for someone in trouble. That is solidarity with someone caught doing wrong.

That is what Fianna Fail said when Charlie Haughey was caught lying and stealing. We stand by our own.

It's what Fianna Fail said when big chunks of money turned up in Bertie Ahern's pockets.

It's what the hierarchy of the Catholic Church said when they knew that people under their jurisdiction were fondling, punching or raping children. We stand by our own.

These were not expressions of sympathy, they were defiant displays of solidarity, with a concomitant display of disrespect for the victims.

Three years ago, when a Listowel man was found guilty of sexual assault, his neighbours made a display of solidarity in the courtroom, in front of the victim (who got a rough time from some).

"What about the victim?" a journalist asked one of the man's supporters.

Came the reply: "I didn't know her."

Over the past week, Sean Quinn and his brother Peter and a range of others have launched an assault on the victims of the Quinn family's actions -- the rest of us.

This has been accompanied by serious accusations against identifiable members of the judiciary, against the people now running Anglo Irish Bank and against the media.

Sorry, that should be "the Dublin media".

Because, you see, living above here in Dublin, in our mansions, we have a fierce hatred of all who live outside the Pale, in their thatched cottages. We make up stuff about folk with country accents, because that's just the kind of gob****s we are.

We're not genuinely Irish, you know. We're West Brit Free Staters, gombeens, sleeveens, slaters and twisters who burn with envy and revulsion.

And you can't believe a word out of anyone about Sean Quinn, unless they were born within five miles of his home and/or worked five years in his factory.

It's pathetic. We live in a little sliver of a country on the edge of Europe. Throw a stick out of any Dublin window and the odds are you'll hit someone from Kerry, Mayo or Meath. And if you're not related to them, you've probably had drinks, a fight or sexual relations with their cousin.

Yet, some seek to divide us by geography, by place of birth, by public sector versus private, by gender, by any mechanism that mobilises group loyalty to defeat fairness.

Sean Quinn continues to make very serious allegations. He states blatantly that the asset-stripping his family did was done before court orders were issued.

I spent some time last week plodding through legal judgements relating to the Quinn scandal. In particular, re-reading Judge Elizabeth Dunne's finding of contempt of court.

Did the judge get it wrong? Is she part of some conspiracy to do down the Quinns, corrupted, perhaps, by the Anglo people or Matthew Elderfield?

That's the implication of the Quinn bullshit that is being ladled over us.

Read the judgement. It's online. It's not John Banville, admittedly, but it has great characters and a staggering plot. Read about Mr Gurniak and Ms Puga, about Galfis and Finansstroy.

Read about documents supposedly signed in April 2011 -- but which the judge believes were signed two months later. The events are complex, bewildering in places, but the judgement seems to me to be coherent and convincing.

This is not about a longing to see anyone banged up. If that's the penalty, so be it. What matters is that the law of the land is enforced.

And this isn't just about the Quinns. We all are being asset-stripped to protect the interests of careless, greedy people.

Four years after all this began, I'm tired of being lectured on what wonderful chaps they all are.

We've seen the Quinns at work, a once powerful family taking on the legitimacy of the courts.

We've seen Sean Quinn blustering, waving aside inconvenient facts. To answer cold, hard evidence, we have heated arrogance. Don't look at what we did. Look at who we are.

Tell that to the kid who is screaming for mercy when she has been caught with a pair of jeans stuffed up her jumper.

The old line from The Outlaw Josey Wales comes to mind.

"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining."
By:
workrider
When: 05 Aug 12 12:53
fantastic piece , i've never read that journo , but that's hit the nail on the head ...
By:
Kelly
When: 07 Aug 12 16:30
A lot of emphasis has been put on the recent judgements against the Quinns , regarding illegal activity .  Based on the fact that they owed the Anglo Irish and still had access to funds which were due to the State via Anglo . Guilty until proven innocent ( or less culpable ) I have posted earlier  , no argument against the most recent judgemental activity .

Had they just handed over their assets on request , would they have any chance of any inquiry regarding the "illegal" lending of 2.5 billion or so to them to shore up the falling Anglo Irish ? Or would it have been a case of "bye bye American Pie " , on your bike , see you in Ballyconnel , or Teemore . Think that some of their actions fall into place with that mindset  , proven or unproven .

NODODY so far as far as I know has admitted that there is a case to be answered in that regard , partly I suspect because it suits everybody except the Quinns . But it is a part of natural justice , and until the matter is aired with transparency and enquiry the question remains as to what EXACTLY went on regarding the huge loans which EVERYONE seems to know were made to bolster up Anglos share price . It may well be that the loans were requested and not "volunteered " , but with the track record that lending institutions and bankers and accountancy firms  have earned for themselves in recent years ( from hero to zero essentially) there must be doubts in a lot of peoples minds . Action against the Anglo Irish personnel has still to come to court I think , and it may be interesting to see if any skeletons emerge there . Carts and horses come to mind .

I have in mind the advice that a highly placed legal friend of mine gave me many years ago "dont ever trust a government implicitly because in my experience if they dont win they just change the rules " . Could be said to apply world wide  on reflection . And history has plenty of examples .

I did not follow the activities which were going on in and around Anglos demise  , not affected personally and I had advised any who cared to listen to that the southern economy at that stage was bonkers and unsustainable  , posted as much on here  , but it was unfashionable in the face of Celtic Tiger trumpeting .

Most sanguine people now admit it was greed which was the dominant factor , but bringing the corporate greed merchants and spivs  and others to brook involves a lot more people than the Quinns .  Society has to take some blame when things go wrong , think a lot of fish have escaped the net . I would be a fisher of men , so that they did not get the chance again .

So far the Quinns seem to be the only ones "netted " , every week now we are hearing about banks etc still turning in huge losses .  Lets have all the cards on the table .
By:
Santry
When: 07 Aug 12 16:58
The money the state-through the IRBC-are trying to get from the Quinn family at present has nothing to do with the loans to them to buy Anglo shares . It is loans they looked for and got from Anglo to buy large amounts of property both hear and abroad . Theses loans where made against the value of the property. What the Quinns are now trying to do is either keep the property or sell it and keep the proceeds. It is a position the simply cannot be defended.
By:
lustrumm
When: 07 Aug 12 17:19
All coming out in the wash now with The mighty Quinn. UK Courts will milk the claims for all they are worth now that they are underwritten by Irish Taxpayer.

workrider Gene Kerrigan been writing like that for years, you should read him when he tackles Inda Kenny
By:
workrider
When: 07 Aug 12 18:11
is he always that impartial .....lustrumm...?
By:
lustrumm
When: 07 Aug 12 22:22
He is like a more lefty version of Vincent Browne if you can imagine that
By:
lustrumm
When: 07 Aug 12 22:24
Something tells me there won't be a rally for the Mighty Quinns this week, or any week soon come to that. Sean Kelly MEP must feel like some eejit now. As for the likes of Boylan and Colm O Rourke words fail me
By:
bobbybocala
When: 08 Aug 12 12:18
dont know anything about boylan.....o Rourke is in bigger shiitt than the Quinns.....yet another of the .....thou shalt not pay brigade....
By:
GANT007
When: 08 Aug 12 13:31
I'm sure Colm can pay his way........it might mean dipping into his share of the sale of Teofilo to Sheik Mohammed.
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