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Monte Christo
17 May 12 17:26
Date Joined: 17 Mar 04
| Topic/replies: 6,059 | Blogger: Monte Christo's blog
I know it's not sports related however

Just listening to a very interesting debate on this and was wondering what the views of the Irish Forum were.

How will you vote ?

Does the vote even matter iyo ?
Pause Switch to Standard View May 31 - The Referendum
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Report squigs May 17, 2012 5:31 PM BST
Listening to the debate on Today FM at the moment, I'm leaning towards no and I would usually be pro Europe. I feel it's a loaded gun either and with both choices Ireland loses out.

Never thought I would hear SF and UKIP singing from the same song sheet.
Report Monte Christo May 17, 2012 5:39 PM BST
Cheers squigs.

I'd be leaning towards a No vote myself at present tbh.
Report workrider May 17, 2012 5:41 PM BST
i see the french are not happy with this treaty either ....from masstricht to lisbon { they had to get a second bite at this remember} we've been told if we dont vote in favor we're done for ...same old story again imo ..although what the options are god only knows ....
Report Monte Christo May 17, 2012 5:46 PM BST
Totally agree workrider.

Think it's the uncertainty about the whole thing which will result in a yes vote imo.

People will go for the safety first option so to speak in the hope that it does lead to a more stable future.
Report Arklearkle May 17, 2012 7:15 PM BST
My understanding is the vote is whether we want to run the country's business properly or not. To me it is a no-brainer - yes.
Report Monte Christo May 17, 2012 7:21 PM BST
My understanding is the vote is whether we want to run the country's business properly or not.

I think it's more a case of Europe making sure we run our own affairs in line with their guidelines.

Imo the main reason for pushing the yes vote is to make sure we continue to get bailed out at a more beneficial interest rate.
Report Rocketfingers May 17, 2012 7:29 PM BST
I agree Monte surely it's a case that we continue to get bailed out taking banking debt and making it sovereign debt? I'm voting No i'm leaning very much that way at the moment unless someone can change my mind. All they'll do is make us vote again but next time we'll get a better deal on the table.
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 17, 2012 7:54 PM BST
If these gobsh***s had any bit of savvy they would have postponed the vote until later in the year, when everyone will know whats with Greece, and after this new French President has made a decision,(also French Elections to come soon),but no push on boys Noonan,(getting fatter by the day,big rich meals),and headless Enda keep digging to bury us all in Bank debt....... do you know what Fianna Fail would be no worse, couldn't be worse imho.Vote kno early and often, unless like rocket someone can convince me otherwise
Report Monte Christo May 17, 2012 7:58 PM BST
Laugh Totally agree Jay.

So far we've 4 No's & 1 Yes with one undecided i think.

Be interesting to see how this forum tallies up with the latest opinion poll.
Report squigs May 17, 2012 8:44 PM BST
I thought Bruton suggesting (And then retracting) that if we vote no we will go again was a big mistake.
Report tobywong. May 17, 2012 9:35 PM BST
Report Rocketfingers May 17, 2012 10:03 PM BST
Just heard this again on Prime Time, so if we vote 'No' we vote again, what a joke, that cemented by 'No' vote.
Report Rocketfingers May 17, 2012 10:04 PM BST
That's Gant's arch enemy on prime time Richard'Boyd Barrett.
Report workrider May 17, 2012 10:13 PM BST
looks like what we vote for wont matter a danm , they'll just break us down till they get what they want....democracy how are ye....
Report Rocketfingers May 17, 2012 10:15 PM BST
Totally agree WR laugha ble stuff, My vote is nearly a protest vote as much anything at this stage.
Report kavvie May 17, 2012 10:24 PM BST
yes brainer.they have us by the b.alls...if we dopnt want them to squeeze we vote yes!
Report Arklearkle May 17, 2012 10:36 PM BST
If we dont get our finances in order it will be simple - if we are a bad risk no one will loan us the money (it has nothing to do with anyone squeezing us). Where will the money for the public servants and the social welfare recipients come from then.
Report Rocketfingers May 17, 2012 10:51 PM BST
Surely it's a case at some stage we have to make hthe hard decisions? I just don't like being bullied into anything and the fact that we will almost certainly have to vte again buys us time to see how the situation in Greece develops. We will probably conform as that is what we are we do what we are told doff the cap if you like to our superiors.
Report anfeild May 17, 2012 11:22 PM BST
They should stop the vote till Greece elections. If Greece leave the euro then i reckon everything changes. The euro is a crazy idea imo. Gives no lee way for countries that get in trouble do anything about it. Before the euro countries could change interest rates or devalue the currency to alter conditions. The euro has been a shambles of an idea. However at this stage hard to see us leaving it without major problems. Voting yes or no i don't think will have much difference. Yes probably means 10-15 years of no growth and just paying back the debt. No will just mean it will come back again and eventually go through with probably a little sweetner. I think Greece are going to leave the euro and probably more will follow. Gov should have let Anglo go to the wall.
Report el gato May 17, 2012 11:56 PM BST
no-lets get to the endgame sooner rather than later
Report el gato May 17, 2012 11:56 PM BST
no-lets get to the endgame sooner rather than later
Report ilikewavingatbuses May 18, 2012 12:52 AM BST
voting no.
Report Tolmi May 18, 2012 1:03 AM BST
Currently I am a yes voter.However if any 1 of the many no voters on this thread can give me an accurate post rejection scenario I might change.So its up to you to prove to me why a no vote is better?
Report Rocketfingers May 18, 2012 1:56 AM BST
Tolmi would not dream of changing your mind or anybody elses to be honest. We all have our opinions why we are voting a certain way, most seem to be somewhat undeicded from reading this thread and few seem to have strong opinions. After listening to Vincent Browne tonight show nothing has changed my mind. I still have more questions that answers and i hate voting for something i that no one is able to explain to me. If you state why you're voting yes maybe you'll have a better chance of a debate.

Btw does anybody know if the public sector be voting 'yes' or 'No'?
Report db1974 May 18, 2012 9:58 AM BST
I'm voting NO anyway

So is wildman
Report pa lapsy May 18, 2012 10:41 AM BST
Probably go back home 3/4 times a year and each visit it is "worse",very sad times for the country,unemployment,emmigration debt.
Tax payer/home owner paying for the sins of the banks in no uncertain terms,playing ball so far with the E.U has brought us to this point imo,maybe a no vote and feck the consequences could do no worse?
Report RoyalAcademy May 18, 2012 11:18 AM BST
Voting for the fiscal treaty is some protection against foolhardy governance but not much in my opinion as exchequer returns will always be prone to booms and busts. If you think people/investors/governments ever learn just look at the crazy valuations for Facebook just a decade after the bubble. A more closer-to-home example of stupid economics is NAMA's attempt to subsidise the the housing market with its latest 80% mortgage effort when any idiot should know that markets must find their own floor and what would be so wrong with cheap houses anyway-it would be one consolation for my teen kids?

I am probably a "yes" voter on the basis that we need the cash and the interest rates should be non-punitive and I see most of the no campaigning as utterly opportunistic. I despise SF with a visceral hatred over their usual bully-boy tactics cloaked in sharp suits these days.

Two recent stories coalesced for me recently in a strange way: when the IMF arrived in 2009 a right-of-centre friend opined that it was long overdue and now, at last, we would be forced to stop spending money stupidly on such things as early retirees (a close relation of his had retired from the defence forces on full pension in his 40's), generous pensions and allowances and a myriad of other extravagances that caused us all to throw up. What has happened since? The public service is still the gravy train (Croke Park the ultimate cop-out-it has already defeated Howlin)and public funds are still paying off the cosseted (8,000 early retirements and then the ultimate insult of rehiring individuals with three sources of income) and even the broke banks will offer far too generous redundancy terms with our money. Meanwhile your average joe (me) struggles with his business and things, literally, get worse every day.

Another friend of mine (lots of property debt,struggling but managing to stay afloat thanks to a strong farming business) surprised me when he said he was definitely voting no as, in my opinion, the farming community remain the most protected section of society. His view is that the sooner we run out of money in central government, the better, and then the reform of our hand-out, bonanza-style system will have to be reformed. Allowing for the myriad contradictions in his stance (100 acres still worth €1m and no shortage of buyers, good commodity prices, big fat subsidies with current plans to INCREASE the CAP budget, no septic tank or water charges and 20,000 tractors on the street if a wealth tax proposal gets an airing) it was a view that closely mirrored Morgan Kelly's suggestion that we first balance our books and then we can snub our noses at Europe as we wont need current account cash.

It's all very confusing but I'm still mad as hell.
Report Tolmi May 18, 2012 12:13 PM BST
Some very interesting points RA and if I were able to express myself as well as you I would have attempted to write many of those points myself.
The saddling of the next generation with paying for the inflated pensions of the early retirees is an issue that really rankles with me.
Interestingly I think a no vote may well force more austerity on us and end up with a Minister for Finance having to produce a balanced budget.While part of me thinks that this may not be a bad thing I know in reality vested interests in various government departments will look after their own as much as possible and we would end up with enormous suffering for a large percentage of people.
Report GOD- May 18, 2012 12:48 PM BST
Report wildmanfromborneo May 18, 2012 12:49 PM BST
I am voting no but then i always do.
Excellent posts from Royal Academy and Tolmi would like to hear the views of Distant View and Wallflower.
The main fear seems to be if we vote no where will we get the loot,not a real fear because Germany can`t afford to let us go bang the non gamblers among us think of the risk and panic but surely they realise we are holding the highest card.
The lump sum pay offs the rehiring and the bloated pensions are obscene and an affront to all decent people,the haphazard nature of the redundancies and the dubious amount saved also wrong.
People seem to forget we have bailed out the German and French banks,they owe us.
This treaty is akin to a bookmaker being owed thousands by Allduckornodinner getting this debt moved to the J.P.McManus account,neat piece of sleight of hand.
The extraordinary aspect of this crisis that the gentlemen who caused it[the bankers] have been completely protected as have their investors,they gambled lost but now refuse to accept the consequences.My analogy is we go into a betting shop lump on Maybe in the 1000 Guineas and when it loses not alone do we look for our stake back we also demand to be paid out as a winner,thats what the bankers and bondholders did and managed to get the Irish government onside.The bank guarantee was the result of some coercion from the ECB and some old style Fianna Fail looking after their pals but where were all these highly paid advisers to warn them of the danger.Many years ago i read an economic rule that said if you take over a loss making venture it will transfer to the main body,if i an economic illiterate can remember that how come the economists couldn`t.
Report itcanbedone May 18, 2012 1:39 PM BST
The main fear seems to be if we vote no where will we get the loot,not a real fear because Germany can`t afford to let us go bang the non gamblers among us think of the risk and panic but surely they realise we are holding the highest card.

IS this the same highest card held by Greece at the moment?  They seem determined to play it.

What if German call their bluff?  And say leave or meet the austerity criteria?  Ok, techinically they cannot tell Greece to leave, only Greece can do this of their own accord, but surely if Germany plays hardball, they would effectively be forced to leave.

Can Germany afford a Greek exit?  Greece is only 3% of European GDP but the fallout of an exit would be severe. Is it cheaper to keep them bailed out even if they don't cooperate along the way?

I think if the game was soley economic then Greece does hold the highest card an it would not be forced int an exit.  Unfortunately I think the game is now politic, and without its traditional ally France to rely upon, and with elections in 2013, the German response can no longer be predicted with confidence.
Report GOD- May 18, 2012 2:58 PM BST
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 18, 2012 4:31 PM BST
Floods are an annual visitor
Locusts are 2late as nuttn left 4them
Always knew God was one of us
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 23, 2012 9:39 PM BST
Merkel is getting it from this new French President now, and who do we see running around like a headless chicken but the bould Enda, completely clueless running a referendum that is about a treaty that is going to be changed/binned before we vote.......... what kind of clowns are these guys Kenny+Noonan...........this is beyond belief
Report Toto82 May 24, 2012 8:23 PM BST
What do people think of the current odds?
YES is trading around 1.2 here, is NO bet of the year??
Report kavvie May 24, 2012 8:28 PM BST
yes shouls win but its no 1.2 chance!
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 24, 2012 8:34 PM BST
Baldy Noonan was on with Pat Kenny today, and Kenny played a clip of a Sinn Fein guy saying that our friends in Europe are legally bound to give us money due to some other Treaty and when Kenny came back to baldy all he was saying is "he's wrong there now", but of course noonan is right all the time, word about septic tanks/water charges, and a host of other taxes to be slammed in to place once they get this Referendum out of the way, with the loudmouth Hogan gagged at the moment, vote no and vote early often..........
Report squigs May 24, 2012 8:47 PM BST
I think yes winning margin between, 0.01 and 8% @4/1 was a great bet with Paddy Power. I think yes should win unfortunately but it's going to be a hell of a lot closer then expected.

I'll do that and am already stuck having taken 3/1 on a no vote earlier in the campaign.
Report kavvie May 24, 2012 9:00 PM BST
would mayo at 50s be a gd bet for highest yes vote?(home of enda and a few ministers)?
Report Monte Christo May 24, 2012 9:19 PM BST
Would be worth a bet at that price kavvie.

Any prices on Donegal having the highest No vote ?

There's hardly anyone left here to vote and I think it'll be a big protest vote so to speak.
Report squigs May 24, 2012 9:27 PM BST
Don't know, it's not bad logic. Sinners got 7% of first pref votes in Mayo in the last election, FG got 65% of vote in Mayo. My big negative is I think rural voters particularly linked to farming will be no votes.

Intresting graph on voting patterns for both Lisbon referendums in the top right of this screen here. Obviously old data but I feel the voting patterns may not run that dissimilar to this.
Report kincsem May 24, 2012 10:28 PM BST
Easy.  Just vote the opposite to what Sinn Féin want.
Report Toto82 May 24, 2012 10:29 PM BST
Vote YES then?
Report itcanbedone May 25, 2012 8:22 AM BST
24 May 12 22:28 Joined: 12 Apr 04 | Topic/replies: 2,487 | Blogger: kincsem's blog
Easy.  Just vote the opposite to what Sinn Féin want.

I couldn't agree more.
Report Toto82 May 29, 2012 12:38 AM BST
Any predictions on turnout?
Report Monte Christo May 29, 2012 10:22 AM BST
Michael Noonan yesterday warned of having to have more severe budgets if we don't vote yes ?

Ffs this government don't have a clue. How many more cuts etc. do they think they can make before everyone says enough is enough ?

What do people think about our leader refusing to enter any debate on the treaty ? Hardly inspires confidence when it comes to his dealings with the big boys in Europe.

As to the treaty what's going to happen to this ESM Fund when Spain gets the begging bowl out ? I have not heard one person answer this question yet but I would say € 500 billion would be nowhere near enough.

As regards turnout I think it'll be lucky to reach 60 %.

By the way I think it'll be a yes vote but it'll be a lot closer than many people imagined imo.
Report Arklearkle May 29, 2012 11:48 AM BST
My understanding Squigs is that the farming vote will be overwhelming a yes. Most if not all the farming organisations have recommended a yes.
Report workrider May 29, 2012 11:57 AM BST
there is a sinister undercurrent to this referendum ,why we need to vote , and why are we voting now , when the world and its wife knows that nothing will be resolved until ,  greece , portugal , spain ,are offered  rescue packages .....i cant see them letting greece go to the wall....none of those counties are big industrial        producers , their main income stems from tourism ,with the fall off in tourism they will struggle to repay loans ....i really cant see the urgency in us voting now ....there is a long hard road ahead for many counties in europe not just seems to me that our goverment are like little children looking for approval from grown ups ..hense the need to appease germany and france ...they seem to be saying look at us , we've let you plunder our national assets for little or nothing ,we've created water charges , house charges etc etc...hard hitting budgets please sir can we have some more money ....this mad rush to vote at all costs is strange to say the least ,are our leaders looking to bring us to the brink of finacial arrmageddon.....i'll be voting no.....
Report Arklearkle May 29, 2012 12:02 PM BST
Workrider I reckon your imagination is running wild. Everyone of course is entitled to their own opinion but as far as I can remember you gave the forum a good winner the other day so perhaps you should stick to the horses!
Report workrider May 29, 2012 12:08 PM BST
Report jumper May 29, 2012 1:33 PM BST
IMHO, I suspect the government now realise they've jumped the gun a bit early on this one as the Treaty could be significantly amended as a result of events elsewhere and the next Leaders meeting on 27 June. Even if it is changed, I reckon the Attorney General will rule it hasn't been amended enough to warrant another vote by us.

I'm voting no, but believe the yes side will win on Thursday but not by as much as the polls have been suggesting.

As per what Monte Christo says above, I'm amazed Kenny can get away without debating the issue on a public forum. Yes, it doesn't inspire any confidence at all.
Report kavvie May 30, 2012 11:04 AM BST
it has been renamed the mrs robinson referendum..laugh about it shout about it,when you gotta chose...every way you look at it you lose!
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 30, 2012 2:09 PM BST
All forum posters should take time to study and try as best to understand the post put up on the 29th May at 11.57, by workrider .......... take your time, read it  .......Its right on the money.... Workrider is spot on...................................
Greece can't be allowed go to the wall, because millions of Russian money,(some hot,some not hot), is invested in Cyprus Banks, and what have these Cypriot banks gone and done with this money........... guess......... yes they have invested in Greek try and understand this now............  Baldy Noonan wont have time to buy his Fetish Cheese if Russia is angered......... so this Treaty is a dead duck
Report RoyalAcademy May 30, 2012 2:35 PM BST
Shinners lose High Court challenge-well done Gerry Hogan

If you are undecided and need a reason to vote yes, heres what the Adams Family thinks of due process:

Speaking outside the court afterwards, Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams said he did not accept that Mr Doherty had lost. He said an important principle had been established. Mr Adams said the opinion expressed by Mr Justice Feeney was “only an opinion”, which was as valid as the position of Mr Doherty, Sinn Féin and himself.

You can take the man out of the gutter but.............
Report Arklearkle May 30, 2012 2:45 PM BST
I reckon very few of those who watched the Don Tidey kidnapping the other night will be voting no.
Report Vubiant May 30, 2012 3:05 PM BST
It was instructive  listening to SF performers during the referendum campaign ( the small amount I could stomach).
They -like the well trained robots they are -kept referring to 'the state' [musta forgotten about the Quisling bit]...and the 'jurisdiction'. It seems they don't live in Ireland at all -though they are happy to work there and use its legal apparatus when it suits . What a strange twilight world of twisted fantasy these people have constructed for themselves.
Only the braindead or the bewildered could consider voting for this sinister mob.
Report workrider May 30, 2012 4:24 PM BST
vubiat , i dont consider a no vote and vote for sf....i'm certainly not a sf supporter , i consider a no vote a vote for democracy ...yes we need the money ,but were does this all stop , cut after cut till there is nothing left to cut what then....we MUST GET A CUT IN THE INTEREST WE ARE PAYING BACK ....WITH THAT MONEY WE JUST MIGHT KICK START OUR OWN ECONOMY ....
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 30, 2012 4:29 PM BST
I think you are forgetting this is not a vote for or against Sinn Fein, nor is it a vote against Phil Hogans septic tanks,or his water charges,(yes thats the muzzled phil),this is a vote for Ireland to show the Eurocrats that we the Irish public were not the cause of the huge debts and that we have a voice and we want a proper say in this whole debacle,we can not pay anymore. Stand up for yourself and for the young people of Ireland, dam all to do with the shinners.....or septic tanks.
BTW does anyone know where Peter Matthews a newly elected TD has gone, muzzled again by his superiors.....LaughLaugh
Report workrider May 30, 2012 4:39 PM BST
GOOD MAN JAY , i guess i wont be seeing you at punchestown this evening ?
Report Tolmi May 30, 2012 6:46 PM BST
It has often crossed my mind to ask is JayTrumpOldTomDubbl

a.Bertie Ahern
b.Celia Larkin
c.Willie O Dea
d.All of the above
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 30, 2012 11:07 PM BST
No workrider didn't travel
Rourkes pub with paddy nearby is goodLaugh
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 30, 2012 11:10 PM BST
Oh sorry Tolmi Whoops ask away anytime,ask away but not tomorrow as I will be busy all day..... early....
                                                       and  often as we say Laugh
Report wildmanfromborneo May 31, 2012 9:06 AM BST
The nos are a disparate group but they generally want the E.U. to be a trade area rather than a united states of Europe.During this financial crisis we discovered that our only true friend was Britain,they are our biggest trading partner and if we could get over our traditional prejudices they are our way out of this crisis.
Vubiant and Royal Academy will love the irony of this,we should rejoin sterling and work in conjunction with Britain,our main enemy in Europe is France they will always look after themselves,they have managed to masquerade as a strong nation by using an alliance with Germany,who are the strong nation and are gunning for us.
The bank debt is not ours it has been foisted on us,we are in effect bailing out the German banks.
If we sign up to this treaty we will have to borrow 11 billion to put into the fund because as sure as night follows day Spain or Italy will go bang and that is the end of the fund,it will also be the end of the Euro.
WE have been great for Europe we gave them our fishing waters absolutely teeming with fish,we gave them our youth all they gave us was hardship,they need us for our natural resources we have the Atlantic with its wave power and gas and oil,we should vote no not because Sinn Fein or some other groups say so but because it is the right thing for Ireland.
During this crisis the group that caused it all,the bankers have escaped scot free,they have retained their power and money surely now is the time to take them and their bond holders on.
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 31, 2012 11:16 PM BST
Phew.......... jadedafter that...Laugh
Report Toto82 June 1, 2012 12:02 AM BST
Turnout LOW, its 5/6 the pair at this stage at Toto's count centre bookies
Report db1974 June 1, 2012 9:50 AM BST
Very early tallies in 2 Dublin constituencies have the NO vote ahead
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 10:07 AM BST
Sadly not true,yes way ahead.
Report db1974 June 1, 2012 10:09 AM BST
According to RTE, plenty of early tallies have the NO vote ahead in some constituencies
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 10:11 AM BST
Stinking Dun Laoighaire going to give a massive yes again,they must all be civil servants or work for the E.U.
Is Leopardstown in the Dun Laoghaire constituency?
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y June 1, 2012 10:17 AM BST
shut it you cuclhie clown
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y June 1, 2012 10:17 AM BST
*culchie clown* Devil
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 10:19 AM BST
Donegal holding strong but the rest of the country capitulated to the fear tactics.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y June 1, 2012 10:20 AM BST
Is Yes looking like winning then Wildman?
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 10:22 AM BST
I like Leopardstown so hope it's not in Dun Laoghaire,I always hated Dun Laoghaire because of the mail boat.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 10:24 AM BST
Not only winning but hacking up,another sad aspect is the polls would appear to have got it right,they remove all the sport out of elections.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 10:27 AM BST
I hope the E.U. Ban greyhound racing that would learn ye.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y June 1, 2012 10:29 AM BST
I was only joking anyway, you're entitled to your opinion.

I'm not sure which constituency, the likes of Leopardstown, Foxrock, Stillorgan, Carrickmines etc........ are in.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y June 1, 2012 10:31 AM BST
wildmanfromborneo 01 Jun 12 10:27 
I hope the E.U. Ban greyhound racing that would learn ye.

more than likely 'teach me' Silly
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 10:33 AM BST
I know that,so am I sure I love the greyhounds it's another sport we are very good at.
Report Monte Christo June 1, 2012 11:21 AM BST
Looks like it'll be a yes well. Still it's good to see Phil Hogan back as I thought he'd left the country.

Now to get a price for another referendum in September / October when Spain has asked for a bailout then the Italians.

What are the chances of the punt being back in circulation in the next 12 months ?
Report Arklearkle June 1, 2012 11:54 AM BST
Monte there is not a chance in hell of the punt being back in circulation in the next year. Time to move on.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 1, 2012 12:15 PM BST
What price Sterling?
Report Monte Christo June 1, 2012 12:30 PM BST
Monte there is not a chance in hell of the punt being back in circulation in the next year

Laugh I was only being mischievious. Seriously though I would not be betting on there being a single currency.

As wildman says maybe Lizzie could let us use her money.
Report kingrat June 1, 2012 5:16 PM BST
wildmanbore from tipp has changed all his dough into sterlingDevilbreen is turning in his graveGrin
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