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wildmanfromborneo
08 Jan 12 20:51
Joined:
Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 21,252 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
The people that run Irish racing are oblivious to the recession,they overpay themselves and give out ludicrous prize money.In Thurles yesterday Quel Esprit had a school around and received 18,525 jimmy o goblins for so doing.Today at Naas Dermot Weld withdrew Silver Concorde from the bumper because Willie Mullins told him he wouldn`t beat his,that shows there are too many opportunities for certain horses.The way to beat this is to tailor prize money to the amount of runners,the less that run the less you get,this might force trainers to take each other on.Willie Mullins is following in the tradition of the great Paddy Sleator talk up your ordinary horses to scare off the opposition say nothing about the real good ones.
Pause Switch to Standard View Too Much Prize Money.
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Report lookingforthewildman January 10, 2012 2:18 PM GMT
Willie Mullins rarely if ever has a 4yo runner in bumpers prior to Cheltenham maybe even Punchestown.....name the last one before Un Atout please.....it is unlikely he has another to run against Welds next time out.....you really are a nutter ya know......i did back marlay park but its not really any of your business.....the reason i dont like duckornodinner is the same reason as i dont like you much.....ye both speak on subjects that ye know little or nothing about.....ye both speak with complete authority even though ye both know well that ye are both bullshittting......
Report silvergreaser January 10, 2012 2:34 PM GMT
4. Stallion levy, or, more mischeviously, a breeding right to new-HRI for every stallion licenced to stand here.

RoyalA, mischevious is right, as that would in effect be a tax on their own bit on the side, nearly all the top brass at HRI are involved with the breeding of horses.

You had to laugh at Kavanagh when the goverment decided to cut the funding to HRI, it wasn't a drastic cut by any means but the doomsayers were out in force, some would argue they were getting far too much before the cuts anyway, and are now at a more realistic level of funding.
Oh but Kavanagh foresaw a possible gravy train de-railment and went for the bookmakers jugular to try and build back up their funding.
What these goverment cuts has actually done is force the fat cats at HRI to distribute the funding more wisely, some of the prizemoney been funnelled towards the top group one races was ludicrous.

As things stand Irish racing is still very well off, although the poor unfortunate fat cats are just a little less well off than they were in 2009.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 10, 2012 2:40 PM GMT
Quid pro quo premier.
Lookingforthewildman you named yourself after me,you are obsessed.You are also a multi account holder that doesn`t bet,that has a contact with an East Cork punter who backed Berties Dream.The same punter throws you snippets of information and gets you to hassle some posters here and your dislike of Allduckornodinner is a proxy one.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y January 10, 2012 2:43 PM GMT
I don't understand your reply?
Report lookingforthewildman January 10, 2012 2:49 PM GMT
As i already have said you are a nutter wildman.....east cork punters,proxy......what are you on about....anyway forget about that and tell me please who was the last 4yo willie mullins EVER ran before the punchestown festival.......just one will do me......
Report Tolmi January 10, 2012 2:57 PM GMT
While your proposals sound good in theory Royal Academy I think in reality a 50% tax on the likes of Powers would only drive Powers headquarters and hundreds of jobs if not thousands offshore.Like it or not they are possibly the most successful Irish owned company of the modern era and derive the vast majority of their profits outside of Ireland.
There is little doubt in my mind that the Racing Industry here should be financed exclusively from some form of taxation on the profits bookmakers derive from it.How to do that in the modern era is the difficult part.It will be interesting to see how it is dealt with in upcoming legislation.
In addition you fail to make any mention of the punter.Any changes which require the bookmakers/exchanges to pay more tax will end up in less value for the punter.
Report Allduckornodinner January 10, 2012 2:59 PM GMT
In fairness he's right bout Mullins not having 4yo bumper runners. He generally wouldn't have more than a handful of 4yo's qualified for bumpers in any given year. He bought only bought one or two at the store sales during the summer. A Golan I believe one of them was. Most 4yo runners he has have already ran over jumps in France. The Weld horse will more then likely run in Leopardstown on Saturday fortnight and there'll probably be not much to take him on from any stable.
Report The Icchantika January 10, 2012 3:02 PM GMT
Shady Willow was 4 when he won prior to getting hammered in Hairy Molly's Cheltenham bumper, but that is a while ago now.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 10, 2012 3:03 PM GMT
Question 3 of the cross themed quiz.
If Silver Concorde wants good or good to firm ground then we won`t see him til well after Punchestown.
Report RoyalAcademy January 10, 2012 3:37 PM GMT
I have no doubt you are right Tolmi but I, for one, would shed no tears to see less high-street bookmakers if taxes were too high. In fact, it might be the golden opportunity that the racing and bloodstock industry desperately needs. Where i live is no different from anywhere else and the average denizen of any betting shop is most likely to be wasting whatever scarce income he has on an addiction and, forgive me, but "value" is an alien concept to most punters. In any event, most of us lose at gambling so it just means you run out of cash faster!

I'd love to see an Irish politician to take on truly republican views on how it's citizens should be protected by the state, not quite the "god, guns and gay" mantra but something benched in a measurement other than cash.

PP are perhaps the most successful Irish company but they pay profits where ever their businesses are domiciled-indeed I suspect they may even receive credit against taxes paid in other countries. I doubt they pay less than 12.5% in the UK or Australia on profits.

They have a wonderful PR spin machine but none of this gloss camouflages how they make their money: preying on a particular human weakness which might be slightly different to most forms of "retail" spending and the jolly old frontman ho-ho-ho'ing on their latest PR whiz.

Nothing will change unless new thinking comes to the table.
Report Distant View January 10, 2012 3:43 PM GMT
Mullins ran Any News against Beechcourt in the first 4yo bumper at Leopardstown a number of years ago.

He ran Blackstairmountain against Tornado Shay and a number of times against Universal Truth.

He rarely has runners in 4yo bumpers however and did not run one against Finger on the Pulse, Kicking King, Sergheyev, Just Friends when they all won the Leopardstown bumpers. I am pretty sure he has had about 2 runners (those mentioned) in the past 10-12 years and would not have had many runners in the follow up 4yo races that are run at Punchestown, Thurles and Limerick. Blackstairmountain is one of the rare horses that he has run in a few of these races.
Report Tolmi January 10, 2012 3:57 PM GMT
While I agree with you regarding preying on the vulnerable it is hard to see how you can differetiate between between those with a problem and those who just enjoy a bet.Its a bit like banning pubs because you have alcoholics.

I would definitely agree that a more appropriate funding mechanism needs to be put in place but considering the way HRI treated themselves to massive salary increases/bonuses/expenses when things were good I would be loathe to support ringfencing the funding without more tranparancy as to the spending of the money.
Report silvergreaser January 10, 2012 4:00 PM GMT
RoyalAcademy I think you're a little removed from reality, HRI inviting people to come racing is no different than Paddy Power inviting you in to one of their bookie shops.

Virtually nobody would be assed to go racing if they couldn't have a gamble, the fact is racing survives today because of that human weakness we call "gambling".
Report wildmanfromborneo January 10, 2012 4:15 PM GMT
Point taken Distant View.
Time will tell whether Silver Concorde wants good ground or not.Dermot Weld knew what the ground was like the night before and the morning of the race,he also knew the money was down,he ducked him alright and a good job too as he would never have touched Un Atout.I had a look at him at Naas and he certainly looked like a five or six year old,he is French bred and they develop quickly,i was still surprised.
The only people that believe trainers don`t duck certain horses are Lookingforthewildman/Mincer/Robo,Rocketfingers and the television addicted Irish Guy 13.GANT007 should ask his bosom pal Gordon has he ever ducked a horse,he might be in for a surprise.
Report RoyalAcademy January 10, 2012 4:22 PM GMT
I think the carefully-preserved status quo must change and I suspect the current Minister wants more control over the industry and spending. How you design the perfect model is anyone's guess but let's hope its not driven by the various sectoral-interests, hidden-agendas and personal vendettas we've seen in the past.

Overall the biggest threat to racing is the bookmaking Leviathan which bleeds punters dry and pockets the cash and it's tackling this monster that should be the priority although I doubt anyone has the stomach for it.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 10, 2012 4:35 PM GMT
The usual suspects don`t know how a quiz works so i will give them a hand Q3 was Beaten three times at 1.01 the answer was Blackstairmountain.A quiz programme with none of those pesky questions is what suits the likes of Lookingforthewildman and Irish Guy 13 and sure enough there is one,Deal or no deal.Its Irish Guy 13s favourite programme and he has never missed an episode,he even shouts in Mincer like fashion Oh my god at the T.V. like a seventeen year old schoolgirl, any normal person would be ashamed but not our moronic friend he blurts it all out on the racing forum..
Report silvergreaser January 10, 2012 4:37 PM GMT
So in effect you think all gambling profits should be in the hands of HRI not the bookmakers then RA?.

Its ok to gamble as long as the racing industry profits from it and not the greedy bookmakers?, HRI has shown itself up to be far from saintly when it comes to greed.

When HRI invite you to pay the admission price at one of their racetracks they know if they don't have gambling facilities in place like the tote and the bookmakers ring (who pay the racecourse for the privilege) only a trickle would come through the turnstiles most racecourses would wither away and die within months.
Report RoyalAcademy January 10, 2012 5:28 PM GMT
silver, i dont for a moment think that anyone should control anything in the manner you suggest.

We have missed the boat here by about seven decades as to how you fund a racing industry successfully i.e a Tote monoploy in some shape or form. Imagining that model based on our present Irish Tote might make you gag (probably correctly imo although its just too small to matter) but a version works well in all the successful racing countries like Hong Kong, Australia (on course bookies allowed), France etc

Generally, a portion of betting income or profits goes to funding the industry and as long as the distribution of funds is equitable you will have a mature and commercially successful industry that can stand on its own two feet and doesnt havent to withstand criticisms about begging bowls and the like.

We are where we are and profits that are earned by bookmakers in Ireland and the UK are "owned" by private shareholders and this is the tune that the PP executives and all other betting firms march to.

I have no faith in the present structure of HRI-a business entity and concept aligned to Government and subject to all types of undue influences both from its industry-representative board or politicians. Its a semi-state company in all but name and displays most of the faults associated with such entities (hubris, self-regard, lack of transparency and (if allowed) accountability). How the present (lack of) policing arrangements can be allowed to continue is surely the greatest indictment of the present set-up. Many would argue that this is a deliberate policy to geld the Turf Club yet again and send them packing once and for all.

My suggestion to improve matters is that new, brave, innovative areas of fund-raising could be considered that might address past mistakes. I think the current Minister is aware of most if not all of these issues and therefore his first step was the appointment of the independent review firm to look at everything in its present make-up.

On the subject of bookmakers I think they should pay higher taxes regardless of how the funds are used. In my view UK racing is on its knees after years of funding rows with bookmakers over the Levy . There's been many a high-profile casualty along the way but there surely must come a day when the ludicrous prize money causes deep disenchantment and withdrawal of support from owners. Imagine the impact over there and here if the middle-eastern supporters suddenly disappeared.

Specifically on PP and their spin machine: they are into every trick in the book that constantly grinds out the message "betting is fun". There's no-one reading this blog that hasn't painful experience of the contrary. I'm just sickened of the slant that says "jobs and taxes" and ignores the damage caused to society and how they are rarely or ever questioned on the ethical issues involved. Comparing an everyday betting shop "slave" to a day at the races is well wide of the mark in my book.

I think I haven't a lot more to say on the matter.
Report GANT007 January 10, 2012 6:31 PM GMT
Wildmanfromborneo........Delete me from your copy and paste list please...........I'm not interested in your games.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 10, 2012 6:44 PM GMT
I don`t know what a copy and paste list is so unable to oblige.
Report GANT007 January 10, 2012 6:50 PM GMT
Point taken Distant View.
Time will tell whether Silver Concorde wants good ground or not.Dermot Weld knew what the ground was like the night before and the morning of the race,he also knew the money was down,he ducked him alright and a good job too as he would never have touched Un Atout.I had a look at him at Naas and he certainly looked like a five or six year old,he is French bred and they develop quickly,i was still surprised.
The only people that believe trainers don`t duck certain horses are Lookingforthewildman/Mincer/Robo,Rocketfingers and the television addicted Irish Guy 13.GANT007 should ask his bosom pal Gordon has he ever ducked a horse,he might be in for a surprise

Please don't include me on your standard list of cyber friends......that's all I ask.........the snide/sly digs go over my head......good man.
Report lookingforthewildman January 10, 2012 7:18 PM GMT
Delete me too by the way willdman......I'm sick of your games too.....trying to make it look as if I am rocketfingers mincer and robo as well as myself.......there's only one of me......I'm my own person.....you are one sick man wildman......
Report silvergreaser January 10, 2012 9:14 PM GMT
Horse: The Frog Prince

Trainer: Sabrina J. Harty

Report from: Sabrina J. Harty

Charge was found to have mucus following and endoscopic examination post race. This was confirmed to the Stewards by the Turf Club Veterinary Office.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ah so that explains it all then as to why TFB ran so diabolically, or does it?, the report was from the trainer not the Turf Club veterinary officer on duty, the turf club vet gave his two bits worth by confirming to the stewards.

So who exactly done the examination the trainer or the vet?, if the vet performed the endoscopy then surely its he who should be submitting the report?.

I presume a lot of horses will have a bit of mucous in the nasal passage after blowing and snorting after a race?.
Another unanswered question which the few lines on the Turfs Clubs website invites you to ask, was there sufficient mucous present for it to effect the horses performance, or in TFB's case run like a drain?, we'll never know either ways.

I'm no expert on all this maybe somebody who knows can enlighten me a bit more.
Report redbait January 10, 2012 9:50 PM GMT
Yes, you most certainly are not an expert on all this.
Report silvergreaser January 10, 2012 9:53 PM GMT
Racing insider arrives on the scene with snide remark, so if your such a know all? then answer the questions I submitted, if not then please refrain.
Report silvergreaser January 10, 2012 9:53 PM GMT
you're!
Report redbait January 10, 2012 10:06 PM GMT
You have a chip on your shoulder about "racing insiders". Let it go.
Report silvergreaser January 10, 2012 10:11 PM GMT
I don't really know if you're an insider or not but you do like to read Irish racings very own PR sheet "the Irish Field", at least I'll give an opinion and respect others whether I agree or not, I don't get a kick out of oneliner smart ass put me downs.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 10, 2012 11:36 PM GMT
Lookingforthewildman and GANT007 why not just stop reading my posts.
Lookingforthewildman maybe you will tell us why you picked your user name.
GANT007 you arrive on this thread just baldly disagree but give no reason,you may know all these people in high places but why not create your own thread where you can name drop to your hearts content.The same applies to the obsessed Lookingforthewildman,you name yourself after me,arrive on my threads and then complain when i respond,try creating your own where you could make some statement praising one of your other guises and then they can join in a mutual admiration society.You are not Rocketfingers but you are most definitely Mincer/Robo even the dull GANT007,Irish Guy 13 and Rocketfingers can see that.
Report Allduckornodinner January 10, 2012 11:51 PM GMT
Silver do you honestly think that a trainer would be carrying the equipment required to perform an endoscopic examination around the racecourse stables?
Report silvergreaser January 11, 2012 10:15 AM GMT
This is what I'm getting at allduck, there were two reports on that night from the turf club vet one for a Charles O'Brien the other for a Lynam horse, both were post race normal, samples were taken for analysis,  all other reports were either from the jockey or trainer in question, so in effect in Hartys case the horse was brought home, examined and the report submitted on a later date?.

Then if that is the case then the endoscopic examination was not post race, for all we know the scope could have been done on a Sunday morning or not at all?.
I presume then Harty's report was accompanied with a certificate of the vet who carried out the endoscopic examination?.


It seems you're allowed do this, see below, from the Tramore meeting on New Years day;

Days Of Glory

Mrs C. Harrison

Mrs C. Harrison to the Office of the Governing Bodies on Tuesday 3rd January

Charge was found to be coughing and to have mucus in her lungs post race


Harrison's report was submitted 2 days later, what constitutes post race?, to me unless the examinations are done by the oncourse vet directly after the race in question then all other post race reports should be null and void as anything can happen in the intervening period, horse might not have had mucous after the race but might have had the next morning or even later or not at all?.

This is a system that is quite clearly open to manipulation, in Harty's case the stewards should have automatically requested that the horse be examined by the oncourse vet and be routine dope tested, it was a fancied horse and was beaten a country mile to me it was a no brainer for the stewards.
Report redbait January 11, 2012 10:45 AM GMT
Have you ever been told that, when you are in a hole, it is best to stop digging?
Report Allduckornodinner January 11, 2012 10:50 AM GMT
If the trainer wants to have the horse examined at the racecourse following a race then they can while the stewards can also order a horse to be examined of they so wish.

In addition the trainer may decide to scope the horse in the following days if they think the horse might have burst internally or whatever. If they find anything that wasn't apparent following the race then they are obliged to inform the Turf Club. Trainers are fined all the time in inquirys into improved form where it transpires that they didn't notify the authorities of a physical reason why the horse didn't perform in a previous run.

It makes obvious sense to me as to why this is in place or else you'd have trainers reporting nothing and the first you'd hear about it is in an inquiry is held into improved form. It may be open to some skullduggery but theres nothing perfect in this world.
Report silvergreaser January 11, 2012 11:36 AM GMT
Allduck thanks for your civil reply.

As you say this system can be open to skullduggery, for instance if the horse makes sudden and dramatic improvement on its next run, and the stewards decide to ask where that improvement came from, the trainer can always call upon the report she submitted after its poor run last time, of course it could well be genuine or just a convenient ready made excuse?, such is the nature of horse racing you're almost programmed to be sceptical as to the authenticity of post race reports submitted on a later date.

Redbait, what hole am I in, I asked why a fancied horse with form that tied closely with the winning favourite and a massive weight pull could be beaten 37L in a 10f flat race.

The only answer I got is the horse was drawn 12 of 14 and raced about 4 horses wide, and somehow this was a bonafide reason for the horse to be beaten a country mile.
So I'm suppose to believe that if you race out wide at Dundalk you're guaranteed to be tailed off like a geriatric tortoise?.
It might be a slight inconvenience but in no way does it explain such an awful performance.

Bramante was drawn 13 and won, and Hard Rock City was drawn 12 and won on the same card.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y January 11, 2012 12:30 PM GMT
Wildman will you stop causing pointless stupid arguements FFS. I have read through this thread and Gant said Weld didn't pull the horse out because Mullins had a machine in the race, whether he/she knows that or fact or it's his/her opinion i don't know but whichever he is entitled to say it. You then started making snide remarks about him/her and calling him/her dull and saying go and ask you're boosom pal Gordon. You then say don't read my posts, well them stop posting things about people and trying to nlure them into an arguement. You have also said things about Rocketfingers on this thread and he has not even posted on the thread!! I have been asking people to stop posting things (that are not true) about Workrider as he doesn't even post on here anymore and you agreed so perhaps you should stop posting / slagging off people that are not on the thread or have just given theri view on things.
Report lookingforthewildman January 11, 2012 1:59 PM GMT
Sick of telling ye......the wildman is absolutely bonkers......he will drive ye all to the place he put wonks in......
Report lookingforthewildman January 11, 2012 1:59 PM GMT
Sick of telling ye......the wildman is absolutely bonkers......he will drive ye all to the place he put wonks in......
Report wildmanfromborneo January 11, 2012 9:27 PM GMT
Premier Fantasy you sound very like Reimerpysatnaf,same views ,live in same area{Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown]idolise the same dog,seems you have more in common with Lookingforthewildman that you thought.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y January 11, 2012 9:32 PM GMT
Give it a rest FFS Sherlock, i already told you it was me on my other account before, just before Christmas.

I don't know if i have anything in common with the poster you say as i have no idea who he/she is, where he/she lives, what he/she does for a living or anything else about he/she.

All i asked is would you not stop making snide remarks about other posters, is that too much to ask?
Report wildmanfromborneo January 11, 2012 10:02 PM GMT
Why the need for another account,i consider you dishonest in the extreme.You slyly come on here to defend the yellow GANT007 who you know to be a name dropper but come in craven disguise.You used to be Satellite Flight got the boot for being offensive,you now have emulated Lookingforthewildman in both views and being multiple account holders so well done.
I will defend myself and do it alone and you will know who i am,there are great posters here but there are also sleveens,they don`t frighten me,The Lavender Hill Mob,Rocketfingers,Never Give Up.Irish Guy 13 and Gant007 you have just joined them.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y January 11, 2012 10:12 PM GMT
It is none of your business to be quite honest why i have another account. Sure my forum name is the exact same as the other account just the opposite way around. Every time i've had to change my forum name everyone has known who i am as i have only used famous Irish greyhound names. Nothing at all dishonest. Perhaps you would be nice enough to let me know what i have been dishonest about??

You will defend yourself and defend yourself alone?? You seem to have short memory, who was the one who helped you out and rooted out the post to prove you correct when Robo said you where a liar and he would leave the forum if you could prove otherwise?? I'll let you know who proved you correct, yes it was ME who did it!!

As i have always said i don't know any of those posters you named. I know Workrider and Distant View off the Irish Forum and only them and have conversed with BJG, Norn Iron and Downallstar through e-mail, nobody else. So no i have not joined any of those you have named in whatever you are implying i have joined them in.

Now think about what you are going to post next and don't go making false outragous statements about me
Report GANT007 January 11, 2012 10:22 PM GMT
So I am yellow/dull for stating that Dermot Weld did not pull his horse out of the bumper because Willie Mullins said he wouldn't beat his......certainly didn't mean to offend you with this dull statement as I do find your pieces somewhat amusing/fictional at times.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 11, 2012 10:41 PM GMT
No GANT007 thats not why you are cowardly,you are cowardly because three times you posted snide remarks all with the safety of numbers.
Premier Fantasy i accept your points and when i say you are joining a group i mean in viewpoint only.When i read your post here i didn`t know who you were it was only when i read your reply on Richard Boyd Barrett i realised, it seemed dishonest at the time but i take your word that you announced it prior to that post and so take it back.I have broad shoulders so don`t mind people having a go at me,its the gentlemen who slip in after a set to emboldened by numbers that annoy.Irish Guy13 is a good example nothing for ages but then when a few posters Mincer/Robo and some of his crew would be on the attack he would join in especially late at night.
Report lookingforthewildman January 11, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
He's gone bonkers .......first it was wonky......now we have bonky......
Report GANT007 January 11, 2012 11:02 PM GMT
Ha ha........you are easily offended if you think my 3 posts were snide......As for me being a name dropper....I don't think so, I  know a few local trainers that's about it.......you seem to have your ear cocked in a fair few places.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 11, 2012 11:15 PM GMT
I don`t know any trainers and i am not offended.
Lookingforthewildman thinks the man he named himself after is bonkers,when you create your next account who will be your new hero.I have already explained i don`t deserve this adulation might i suggest you transfer this adulation to a successful punter,not Doris not Asal not a caffeine filled drink but the man whose name rhymes with Jenin.
Report dj876 January 12, 2012 12:27 AM GMT
Rhymes with Jenin?mmmmm  Davy's pal?
Report never give up January 12, 2012 12:38 AM GMT
wildman knows everything




about fook all....the lonely attention seeker is over on the horse forum looking 4 more attention
Report topfarrier January 12, 2012 10:03 PM GMT
Some absolute Drivel posted on this thread although i dont expect much else.

I was at Dundalk that night and i know the connections of the frog prince who are honest,decent hardworking people.

They were mystified by horses run and sought out a vet to scope him immediately afterwards.

HTH.
Report silvergreaser January 13, 2012 10:37 AM GMT
Well if that is the case then fair enough farrier, that doesn't alter the fact in my original assessment that a run as deplorable as that for a fancied horse needs an explanation everytime, now thats not drivel its common sense.

I've no doubt the people you're defending are decent and hardworking, but I'll take the honest part with a pinch of salt.
They were not too honest with their campaigning of a horse called "William Wordsworth", on more than one occasion I spotted this horse getting an easy, then the time was right and they went for it at Naas on its handicap bow after a decent run on the flat, horse made all well backed and won cozily, this in stark contrast to its 4 previous hurdle runs which read like this,

"Towards rear, 7th when fell 2 out"

"In rear, kept on from after 3 out"

"In rear of mid-division throughout, never a factor"

"In rear, no danger and kept on from before straight"

Funny the horse was always in rear and when the money was down the horse is shot straight to the head of affairs?.

Topfarrier there's not one horse trainer who is totally honest thats not paranoia but a simple fact even you would find hard to refute, no doubt you'd try, because in your little corner of the world when people dare to question the ethics of your profession you sound the bugle and within an instant the wagons are circling.
Report redbait January 13, 2012 10:43 AM GMT
Would you not be happier following tennis or golf? You are clearly soured on racing.
Report silvergreaser January 13, 2012 10:56 AM GMT
Oh sorry thats right redbait dissenting voices are not permitted, forgive me I totally forgot!.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 13, 2012 10:59 AM GMT
The first race in Dundalk tonight illustrates my point,a ten thousand pound maiden with only seven runners ,
three trained by Eddie Lynam.
You have got to hand it to Eddie Lynam he is making hay while the sun shines,twelve runners tonight and double handed in three races apart from the first.
I am all in favour of good prize money but feel it should be earned,no solo runs.
Report redbait January 13, 2012 11:03 AM GMT
It was a serious question, silver. Nearly every post you make is making accusations or complaining about integrity. If you don't have confidence in the way the sport is run, would you not be happier following a different sport and leave racing to those with the stomach for it?
Report silvergreaser January 13, 2012 11:30 AM GMT
No redbait, racing has been getting far too easy a ride for far too long, it still remains virtually unregulated, a few dissenting voices on the internet might not amount to much but its sure better than nothing.

But obviously it works to a certain degree, the insiders obviously exerted pressure on Irishracing.com to close off the comments section of the Blog, because when they looked at themselves in the mirror they didn't like what they saw, "the TRUTH!!".
Report topfarrier January 13, 2012 7:10 PM GMT
I have a feeling that no matter how co-operative a trainer is you would not be satisfied silvergreaser.

Here you have a trainer that was so upset by a horses run that she sought out a vet [at her own expense]and had the horse scoped before letting the turf know of the findings.
Now instead of having the good grace to leave it at 'fair enough'you then dig up another horse that you 'spotted'[lol] to somehow back up your claims that the trainer as well as every other trainer is dishonest.
Incidentally your interpretation of William Wordswoth form leads me to doubt your ability to 'spot' anything that happens during the course of a race.
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl January 13, 2012 8:01 PM GMT
Aragorn Rouge adds a further 5520 euro to his win pot LaughLaughand some one wanted to know a few jiggers I think he said well well well ........easy to be wise now but Kedleston ....how about that ....never a factor in his last run and all abord tonight.....Irish racing strait LaughLaughLaugh
Report redbait January 13, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
Did you watch Kedleston's last run, Jay? Did you see what happened him at the start from his rotten draw? While your at it, look at his penultimate start at Dundalk, which was a good run that suggested the step up to a mile would suit. He was on plenty of radars and got his day today in a weak handicap. If the likes of you and silvergreaser spent a bit of time reading the form, you might find yourselves backing a few of these gambles and getting good result. Alas, it is easier to be lazy and cry fix after the races are run.
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl January 13, 2012 8:32 PM GMT
In this low level of racing there is no form at all.........just a case of whose turn is next......run those handicaps 4/5 times and you will get a different winner..........but when one is kept for a job, well thats different Wink.....btw if you ever read the races scrutinised in England where corruption took place,weren't the jiggers always slow away.....mist the brake Wink or stumbled at the start............now everyone repeat now Irish racing is strait, yes strait u hear now...........
Report redbait January 13, 2012 8:34 PM GMT
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
Report Prospero January 13, 2012 8:45 PM GMT
Wasting your time redbait. There's none so blind as them that don't want to see.
Report redbait January 13, 2012 8:46 PM GMT
You can sing it.
Report RoyalAcademy January 13, 2012 9:37 PM GMT
I've been complaining for ages about the disappearance of Brian O'Connor's comment section on his blog.

I have no doubt that the vehement criticisms of The Real Article affair and the bonuses voted through for the HRI CEO (already being paid more than Obama) caused a lot of anxiety amongst those directly involved. There were also a few questionable rides at leopardstown earlier in the season from those that should know better. Its bloody right that they should feel the cold wind of public opprobrium. It would be interesting to know exactly who was responsible for the likely solicitor's threat or threats that shut it down.

We won't read much criticism (bar a rare exception) in the mainstream media of the goings on in the industry and I welcome this thread from wildmanfromborneo that ran across a few topics.

I hope that the Minister has some intention of cracking a few eggs when he considers how our fifty million "jimmy o'goblins" are being expended. I wonder what "Croke Park" expects of the larded HRI, if anything?
Report silvergreaser January 13, 2012 10:09 PM GMT
Funny again redbait I actually backed William, I didn't get the morning price because the inlaws were already there.
Report silvergreaser January 13, 2012 10:18 PM GMT
So topfarrier ask sabrina what she was up to with William, I as a good race reader spotted it a mile away.

Was she pretending?
Report silvergreaser January 13, 2012 10:28 PM GMT
Royalacademy, they think its there world? how wrong they are!
Report silvergreaser January 13, 2012 10:29 PM GMT
their
Report wildmanfromborneo January 15, 2012 9:54 AM GMT
So Young is a perfect example of my original point.He is picking up decent pots for just turning up almost,a three runner race at Punchestown,a four runner race at Thurles and now another four horse race at Navan.He is getting around 20 grand a pop,i am not blaming Willie Mullins or the fat man but the H.R.I should cut the prize money on the basis of runners and give that extra prize money to the competitive races.
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl January 15, 2012 10:43 AM GMT
But wildman that would make sense, and common sense is a very scarce commodity in this land........mose especially in High places, like Government, Revenue, Bankers, Central Bank, HRI, Bord nGon,HSE, etc etc........this little forum Wink
Report wildmanfromborneo January 17, 2012 6:30 PM GMT
What he really meant was beating the living daylights out of the pair of ye.
Report dj876 January 27, 2012 5:34 PM GMT
Silver Concorde runs tomorrow at leopardstown!!No W.P Mullins runner!
Report redbait February 4, 2012 3:27 PM GMT
The first couple of pages of this thread make for interesting reading in light of Clashnabrooks romp at Fairyhouse. I see more positive riding tactics were utilised today and I also note that Conor Maxwell was jocked off.
Report lookingforthewildman February 4, 2012 3:41 PM GMT
Yes redbait very interesting indeed......bet there will be no sign of know all keen leader with his if you knew what I knew about Clashnabrook trash......it failed to win off 85 in tramore.....what mark will it run off next.....
Report redbait February 4, 2012 3:47 PM GMT
Won very easy. Not often you see a horse swing back onto the bridle in such testing conditions like he did after the second last. I'd be interested to hear from anyone that was in the ring regarding why he drifted so much. Nearly 10 on here close to the off. There must have been a bad vibe as plenty I spoke to seemed to think 5/1 this morning (before the fav came out) was a fair price.
Report redbait February 4, 2012 5:14 PM GMT
Just spoke to a mate that was there and the stewards apparently officially inquired into the improvement in form of The Amarillo Kid and Grey Area (WTF??), but not Clashnabrook. That would have been an interesting and worthwhile inquiry.
Report A Hard Day's Night February 4, 2012 5:21 PM GMT
He won his penultimate start and was third last time. Why would there be an inquiry into improved form?
Report redbait February 4, 2012 5:26 PM GMT
Because the form he showed today was far in advance of what he showed at Tramore when sent off the 11/8 fav.
Report A Hard Day's Night February 4, 2012 5:28 PM GMT
A good run was still on the cards. Those inquiries are for when horses improve out of recognition.
Report silvergreaser February 5, 2012 9:40 AM GMT
Those enquiries as regards improvement in form are just a smokescreen, its 7 years since any connections were actually disbelieved and punished in Britain, it must be 70 in Ireland?.

Powder puff appeasement designed for fooling the public that they actually give a sh!t.
I can see right through the whole sorry charade.

Performance warnings? what a bluff, pull the other one its got knobs on!.
Report pa lapsy February 5, 2012 10:23 AM GMT
Don,t think it was Conors finest hour at Tramore and if he could ride the race again would no doubt have the horse on the outside for the last circuit.While the winner went for home,clashnabrook found himself on the rail stuck behind a horse being eased off(turnonthegas).Race was over by then and clashnabrook ran on strongly when in the clear.
Report lookingforthewildman February 5, 2012 11:29 AM GMT
So lapsy pa says he got trapped in behind horses.....Wildmanfromborneo says it didn't come down the hill......the great keen leader has said he's not a reliable conveyance ......this forum is always the same.....it's full of clueless individuals just looking for some reason to disagree.....
Report wildmanfromborneo February 5, 2012 8:08 PM GMT
You misquote me which is disappointing as it shows you are not reading the posts properly.
I never said Clashnabrook did not come down the hill,i said the jockey may have been nervous at the top of the hill and waited til he got to the bottom of the hill before getting after the horse.
Lookingforthewildman and Redbait both said Clashnabrook didn`t try,i put it down to an understandable lack of nerve on the jockeys part and i would contend that subsequent events have strengthened my case.
If the horse was not off at Tramore then the connections would have been satisfied with the jockey presumably for doing their bidding but they jocked him off,its a fair assumption that they were dissatisfied.
It is now ironic seeing that Lookingforthewildman is in attack dog mode but my final comment on Clashnabrook was "We have unearthed a future winner through different opinions expressed without rancour"
Report silvergreaser February 5, 2012 8:14 PM GMT
my granddaughter says hello!
Report wildmanfromborneo February 5, 2012 8:36 PM GMT
I don`t follow.
Report redbait February 5, 2012 8:57 PM GMT
Wildman,
Would you not consider the possibility that Maxwell was paddling his own canoe at Tramore and was thus jocked off for yesterday?
Report wildmanfromborneo February 5, 2012 9:13 PM GMT
It is possible but why would he.Tramore is not for the faint hearted and i would not blame any jockey for taking it handy going down the hill,i hope i am being fair to the unfortunate Conor Maxwell.
On a general basis it is my belief that jockeys are treated dreadfully,people complaining about races when they do not know what the instructions are,i am not saying there are no bent races but to me they are few and far between.
Report redbait February 5, 2012 9:27 PM GMT
I'd agree that they are few and far between, but this one didn't look good, at all.
Report silvergreaser February 5, 2012 9:30 PM GMT
Wildman give it up!!, a jockey decides he's going to be a jockey?, what do you want us to do get down on bended knees?
Report topfarrier February 5, 2012 9:37 PM GMT
I think you are being unfair on Conor Maxwell Wildman he certainly would have no fear of any track in fact he's probably too brave at times.

I agree with your second point though, and it never ceases to amaze me that punters can't simply accept that a jockey can ride an ill-judged race rather than a dishonest one.

Although they will always believe what they want to i suppose.
Report wildmanfromborneo February 5, 2012 9:40 PM GMT
No just stop persecuting them.
I can`t see why Conor Maxwell would give a horse an iffy ride without complicity with the connections.
Although we came down different roads we did come up with a reason for Clashnabrooks run at Tramore and so i hope ye backed him on Saturday including Lookingforthewildman who was the first to draw the forums attention to Clashnabrook.
Report wildmanfromborneo February 5, 2012 9:46 PM GMT
Topfarrier i think Conor Maxwell is an excellent rider,my main point was i didn`t think he was guilty of anything untoward.
If i was riding down that Tramore hill i would be rigid with fear and unable to move,i don`t think people realise how brave these young men are.
Report silvergreaser February 5, 2012 9:49 PM GMT
Brave? most of them were born into it?

You know that yourself!

Do you really want me to get down on bended knees?
Report wildmanfromborneo February 5, 2012 9:56 PM GMT
What difference does it make if they were born into it,they still have a hard life, a short career punctured with injuries and the new scourge ludicrous bans.
Report topfarrier February 5, 2012 9:58 PM GMT
If you really have an urge to get down on bended knees then please feel free Silvergreaser.

Also if you're arguing that by choosing to be a jockey he should accept the dangers without complaint then i'd agree with you.

However by the same token if someone chooses to be a punter......
Report sinndar001 February 5, 2012 9:58 PM GMT
While I don't agree with Silvergreaser, it is the fault of the Turf Club who have had a lax attitude to regulation. Look at the placepot pool today 80k. That is up from the usual 25k pools just because of no racing in the uk.(those punters didn't bet on portman park like bookmakers would like us to think) Now imagine if uk punters had confidence that Irish racing was been run properly.  But in this country I wouldn't even be confident that the race distances are being measured. We've only got consistent going reports in the last while with a lot of nagging so proper regulation of the sport must be light years away. But I do suggest that anyone with an idea that might better the sport to write to the racecourse or the HRI and continue to write to them. Nagging them is the only way to get things done. Plus I doubt many of the racecourse managers know what a punter wants. Whether they care less or not I don't know.
Report silvergreaser February 5, 2012 10:04 PM GMT
see sinndarr you do agree, don't be afraid to expose the biggest fraud that has ever existed.

Its cool to disagree but you might just see through the charade, its up to you?
Report sinndar001 February 5, 2012 10:16 PM GMT
I don't agree. I am saying that the Turf Club have allowed a lack of confidence in our sport due to their inaction or lack of effort to regulate the sport. Their total inaction in the 'The Real Aritcle' affair was shameful and why wouldn't people have no confidence then. That was a very high profile case, highlighted in the media times over and it deserved to be but it was not dealt with properly. A clown could tell that the trainer and jock should have been dealt with severely.  After that debacle the Turf Club should have been stripped of their powers. The cases are few and far between but when one does come up and its not dealt with, no wonder people have doubts.
Report Fayzer February 5, 2012 11:33 PM GMT
Sinndar are you highlighting issues regarding the Irish racing scene in relation to the excellent job that is done in England? Are you after losing your mind? The game on both sides of the pond stinks to high heaven. We as punters have to navigate this mine field. It is what it is, if you want to bet then in my opinion you may accept the fact that from time to time you will be destroyed by what is the dark side of horse racing on both sides of the Irish Sea.
The reality for many people who are involved in participating in racing on both sides is that due to absolutely horrific levels of prize money they have to do certain things to get a decent price by which to bet a horse when the time arises.....many are hanging on by there finger nails and desperate times calls for desperate measures
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl February 24, 2012 10:13 PM GMT
OK here we go again, Fairyhouse Sat. 25th;
1st race worth 24440 to winner, no wonder dessie has kept Minsk hoping to win this huge pot.......2nd race fillies scheme winners pot 19500...........3rd race winners pot 14900 a 0-140 h/cap.........4th race a Grade2 in name only winner26k...........5th race a beginners chase 6 down to run 10700 to winner.........the last 2 races worth 5.5k to winner and the last race a 6 runner bumper...... a shocking card for this kind of prizemoney, and they would most likely all be running for 30/40% less
Report wildmanfromborneo May 2, 2012 9:16 AM BST
The last race in Ballinrobe makes my point about the consulting and the ducking,Willie Mullins who has been winning everything and lots of bumpers is told from afar that Welds horse Dancers Dilemma is decent,he has a fair idea himself as he was second to Pique Sous result token opposition run a horse thats either no good or half right.All the Mullins punters lump on Dancers Dilemma plus the usual Weld ones result odds on winner.
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