Breeders Cup

Yes Dettori and Buick are good anywhere.

I dont care what anybody says local Jockeys have a massive advantage.

As much as i admire Aidan, this 'best horse we ever had' trope of his is starting to wear a bit thin.
I think Racing TV put up a stat the other day that Timeform and RacingPostRatings have about a dozen other Ballydoyle horses rated higher than City of Troy.
Looking at the career of COT he was able to come from behind to win what appears to be a very average Derby. Your mind flashes back to the afternoon in May on the Roodee when Hidden Law announced himself in no uncertain terms in the Chester Vase. Only to suffer injury whilst pulling up. What might have been.
The fact that Troy flopped in the Guineas and at Del Mar doesnt reflect well.
The two times he was faced with speed straight out of the stalls he was left behind and never got involved.
Time to face up to it. Galileo is the best horse to come out of co. Tipperary this century.

Tidy thread.Some nice Wnrs & performances put up on here.

Giant's Causeway came within a neck of the classic on dirt on his 10th start of the season Hat Tip to he very great AOB for that training performance.

Did Kinane drop his whip in that?

Yes.

I am sorry.
But  there can't often have been such a case of blind deluded optimism in racing as the case of City of Troy going for the Breeders Cup.
He was 7-4 for much of the day.
Utterly ludicrous.
I am reminded of the FIFA bids for the 2018 world cup in which England were odds on with the books to be named as hosts. They got one vote.
It was reminiscent of all those British boxers going over to Vegas to fight someone like Marvin Hagler and getting their backsides handed to them on a platter.
Man Utd up against Pep's Barca in Champions League finals another glaring example. All those hopeless english pundits predicting a Utd victory. Sheesh.
The bullsh!t piles up so high in this country you need wings to stay above it all.

Bingo, fourth of the night, could easily have been five. Again another sensible ride, not getting into a battle with the front two, and as I suggested the sweating was not an issue

Maybe I should give up on the rubbish over here which appears stacked against the punter.

Lovely.
wd
   GL

Last one of the night for me is notable Speech . A trainer who lets his charges do the talking on the track plus a jockey who keeps things simple everywhere. His price (7/4) has contracted because of the absence of Ramatuelle.

How much did you win laying him thelatarps.

Massive price on the Japanese runner here Ten Happy Rose.

89/1 for the Win
14/1 1-2-3 Place

Neither Notable Speech or Porta Fortuna ever looked to be travelling and the winner was much the best in the straight. Under performed or simply not good enough? It's not often are better milers get smashed up like that.

More than looks ran on strongly to win 11.45

Last 7 runs
Ran on
Ran on
Stayed on well
Stayed on well nearest Finnish
Ran on well
Ran on under pressure
Ran on well

If only their was some clue to know how it might run and win.

Think NS missed break slightly .. dont know why Buick then strangled it back for first part then rushed it round the outside... poor ride imv.. woulda gone much closer to winning..PF unlucky in the run...

European runners need to use American riders imho...

Fluck all.
Of course TMB.
Fair point.
did a forecast on the **** horse and sierra leone.
Cos Mike Beer and Dan Illman tipped them on DRF.
Ho hum
Fun while it lasted..

oh sheet.
silly old racist me.
Japanese horse

1.22 ir Domestic Product. Worst price this year ?

The runner up there, Post Time, is an absolute machine.

Ran past everything like it was stuck in treacle.

One too good but that was an electric burst of speed.

10.5 at the off.  Stone last early doors 5.4

They (just about) knew ...

Was on...looked to be coming with a wet sail...found nuffin :(

DP normally finishes strong... must have been lights out cos i was on... all commentators saying on pace not place to be... wrong again... only thing they got right all night was COT had no chance..

10.5 here. Last early doors.

Have 19's ..... and party

Ibrahama,   COT won the 2nd worst derby ever, Camelot won the worst

Funny seeing the 2000 gns/Derbi winners
Being beaten by us runners
Must be a first

Could never see how a turf horse could win the Breeders Cup Classic.

Arcananges won it.

it did and at a monster price as well

Yes it did but I doubt we will ever see another.

as far as AOB and the FOOKING boys are concerned,losing in the classic means nothing to their pockets/breeding sheds as compared to COT losing in the arc/champions day,

Arcangues 133/1 for Andre Fabre and ridden by American Jerry Bailey.

Probably some recency bias in what was the worst Derby. Given that the Extel winner, Take A Reef, was the top rated 3yo, I can't imagine that 1974 was considered to be a vintage year.

Going by memory there's been a stack of fairly sub standard winners , like maybe Dr Devious , Sir Percy , Kris Kin and Teenoso unless they're better than i remember them to be  , has to be a stack more as well.

To be expected though really run on a crap racecourse , very early in the season and full of doubtful stayers.

Teenoso did win the derby in heavy ground, but wragg ran him on firm ground the following year in a really strong King George which he won under again vintage Piggott,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9k3sXh_0DU

Sir Percy was an excellent horse and would have done the guineas / derby double if he had not been in the same generation as George Washington. It's true that the Derby was his peak achievement, but he was a champion undefeated 2yo. I fell in love with him when he won his Goodwood maiden, so I am somewhat biased!

Was just plucking names from memory tbh Cider so guessing in all honesty with no research , just trying to illustrate a point that nostalgia sometimes enforces the rose coloured spectacles in us all and there has always been great as well as sub standard Epsom Derby winners whatever the era.

I had to pop in to defend one of my all time favs. I loved that horse I agree, yes the Derby in reality has a patchy record. CoT is a brilliant horse, awesome career record, just suffered from the Ballydoyle hype machine going into overdrive. Veterans like us have seen it all before, I can see how youngsters could have been carried along with the hype and expectation.

Expectation is a huge factor in any walk of life i feel , it's like someone telling you a movie is great and a much watch in that it's bound to underwhelm a bit after hearing that but if they'd said it was average you'd probably have enjoyed it more.

Daft analogy and can't believe i've just posted that   

Teenoso was a class horse.

It makes sense, the industry bought into the hype. Fran Berry said the other night that regular people from the public had been asking him about the race. It was set up for a flop, there's no way an outfit like that could not have found a way to practice on real dirt, but they bizarrely made a big fuss of going to Southwell and opening up to public, to do something that they could easily have done at home in Dundalk.

Must admit did think why not Dundalk when hearing about Southwell.

Sorry penzance was just plucking names to help make a point and if researching may well have to retract Teenoso from that bunch , it was a very long time ago.

teenosos king george , i remember listening to it outdoors in a park, it was a scorching hot day and i put a tenner on him around 8/1 , comm from peter bromley was superb, in behind was Sun princess, time charter, saddlers wells, tolomeo,  some really top class horses there, and teenoso was supposed to just be a mud lover, probably my fav KG that one

Teenoso was favourite for the Arc before being injured.

I doubt very few member.s of the public who arnt racing fanatic,s asked anyone about COT and outside of ire you can change very few to zero

Yet on this forum 1sttp COT seems to attract an unhealthy obsession regarding rating comparisons and achievements.

As for non racing fanatics even Frankel is easily forgettable , if you ask non racing fanatics a quiz question on horse racing invariably the answer will be Red Rum , Nijinsky , Arkle or Frankie Dettori whatever the question may be.

Tiger Roll I'd argue.

Obviously the CoT narrative is predominately racing bubble stuff, but I believe Fran that it seeped into the public in Ireland a little. My point here is that Ballydoyle engineered the excessive hype, but for them it was in hope not expectation. It's incredibly rare as we know for a horse to be top class on grass and dirt, but they didn't want to find out until the day that CoT would be another one to fail trying to do it.

I can recall when the BC was massive, back in the Arazi days and it had fizzled out to be a side story, much like the Dubai WC. There's no doubt for me that the CoT narrative put the BC back into the racing agenda, and many more people would have tuned in last night than the last few years.

A complete insult to the horse. Whatever did he do to deserve it?.

They seem to be arrogant enough to believe their own hyperbole, in that they can go anywhere and win everything.  I'm glad they've got shown up in a way, and with the vet's issues too.

Yes why did they go for it?....Very strange decision really and backfired in a big way.

The Horse was made to look moderate and he didn't deserve that.

perhaps Aiden thought he was so fantastic, because he was far superior to the other middle distance horses in the yard this season, and they dont seem to be that great

they went for it  because after saying it was their best ever defeat in the arc/champion stakes makes them look like idiots,now their proclaiming hey,s still the best they've trained who because of AOB was slow out of the stalls,THATS IN AOB,s OPINION NOT MINE,AOB still thinks it acted on the dirt,despite the winner coming from wider and  behind it, to beat COT a furlong

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Angus in RTV studio got it right. Great prediction by Mr McNae.

..... but saying he wished that he had been proved wrong. Aye right!

themightymac 03 Nov 24 17:53 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Angus in RTV studio got it right. Great prediction by Mr McNae.

but saying he wished that he had been proved wrong. Aye right!




Makes me laugh when they say things like that as if it was unpatriotic or somehing.  Do they actually realise their viewers risk money on these races?

Who in there right mind wid listen to Angus anyway ffs?

Porta Fortuna bombing out was most surprising part of the night for me. Though it did double in price

Top pundit is Mr McNae.

PORTA FORTUNA,horse of the season for me

So Aiden GOAT , who **** up his greatest ever horse in 2 of his top 3 biggest races .    thats why cecil imho was a better horse trainer ,

Did Henry ever have a runner in America?

United States

    Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf – (1) – Midday (2009)
    Flower Bowl Invitational Stakes – (1) – Yashmak (1997)

Different sport these days elis with prize money as it is the shrewd trainers globetrot , tbh as much as i respect the old trainers they were sometimes reluctant to vacate their own postcode never mind country , Aidan will take anyone on anywhere in the world and with the ammunition to do it , which makes him unique in my book.

Sir Cecil only put one charge in a race, not a battalion to neutralise opponents. Sir Cecil was head and shoulders above AOB in every sense eg race planning; one target (not multiple targets) of a star horse.

An arrogant calamity running CoT without a proper prep on the dirt prior.

tbf impossible Cecil couldn't have matched the runners Aidan has in the top races anyway because he didn't have the depth in calibre , Aidan and Willie have raise that bar way above anything ever seen before in the history of the sport.

Blimey grandad thought City Of Troy wouldn't win. Anyone would think he was the only one. I thought he was going to burst out of that jacket. Did well to stay awake.

ANYONE THINK THAT FRANKEL WOULD HAVE OR NOT WON THE CLASSIC ? hAYDEN, you and me are left / right regarding obrien, but you have always replied in manroble manner , appreciated

They ran COT to make a price for the winner which was punted late from 12s to 6s

Aiden is still untouchable in my book....Like i have said before the man is half horse ffs.

Think the biggest question that can never be answered is would Aidan have won any Derby classic with Frankel , we can debate that one until the cows come home and get nowhere but my own belief is that it wouldn't have been for the lack of trying.

As for winning the classic let's face it he was always a million to run in that , impossible to answer elis tbh.

It's just that i'm still a bit frustrated that Frankel wasn't asked to achieve more.

differentdrum 03 Nov 24 19:07 
Blimey grandad thought City Of Troy wouldn't win. Anyone would think he was the only one.





Grandad?

Agree 100% hayden regarding Frankel not being asked to achieve more.

seems everyone having a go at cecil for not going 12 furlongs with frankel  , he did go 10 f, but i never heard of any criticism of obrien , he only ran at a mile with  The rock

Sparrow, , i dont think frankel would have won any group race at 12 fur,  the greatest ever knew ,  didnt have nuch left v cirrus over 10f imho

Henry Cecil had Breeders Cup flops Indian Skimmer was close to odds on in 1988

I understood Frankel not being asked to go 12f as a 3 year old but he was a far more relaxed horse as 4 years and surely could have been tried.  When I think back to Brigadier Gerard winning from 5f up to the King George at 12f then you have to ask the question.

Passage Of Time another Cecil Breeders Cup fallen favourite

well id back indian skimmer everday over COT OVER 10 FURLONGS

Had it not been for his dodgy blood counts I fancy White Birch wudda beaten COT over 10f, and the ground did come right for him at Sandown.

AGREE George, very fishy that imo

and when it wasn't dodgy blood counts preventing him from racing, elisjohn, it was a knock on his hock, by which time apparently it was too late in the season to get him fit for anything

Trainer told more stories than Jackanory ffs.

boy george found another conspiracy

my crazed stalker has turned up, he's absolutely f*cking obsessed with me.

What were the previous ones, please?

Please c + p actual posts as evidence. TIA.

dont flatter yourself bg

you are the 6th creature to say that. im poking fun at you. in case you had missed it, i do that a lot. you silly sausage

mitolo, instead of ruining people's good thread's by exhibiting your obsession with me and your personal vendetta against me, why don't you just do everyone a favour and start a single thread and keep it all on there?

You could call the thread...

An expose: GEORGE.B the conspiracy loon: THE PROOF

Gather all the 'evidence' together by way of my past posts and then anyone who's interested in your stalking of me, can have a gander.

mitolo, do you not think that people are starting notice that you're turning up on numerous random threads calling me a conspiracy loon and referring to me as boy george?

C'mon man, do you really want to hurt me? Why don't you just karma karma karma calm down? We don't want you going crackers and ending up in the church of the poison mind!

Very good George.

and acey, just to conclude by saying...

I would give anything I own
I'd give up my life, my heart, my home
I would give everything I own
Just to have mitolo leave me alone

thread's?  threads's what?

as you brought it up; richard d hall is the fruitiest of cakes. long since proven. yet you take him seriously and post one of his many crackpot vids. most recent one about the manchester arena bombings and invite others to discuss it. he alleges the state did it and victims were actors. utterly bananas conspiracy bollox. yet you thought it worthy

loon

and i dont turn up on numerous freds. never been on yours, which has many views, none of them mine. what sort of storker am i? a lazy one it seems



the rest of it is bizarre, and obviously im missing the joke. fine. i doubt its very funny

they're boy george's / culture clubs' famous hits, dopey.

and post one of his many crackpot vids

See, this is why a drunken "rsehole like you needs to c + p the relevant posts, because I'm fairly sure I didn't post any link to his video (s)

and i dont turn up on numerous freds. never been on yours

Ah, a liar needs to have a good memory, cuz on my 100 pts challenge thread last year, you said I would never make it. You were wrong about that as well.

mitolo 11 Jan 23 14:46
havent done em as i forgot to do the first one and im too unreliable. if you fink i is storking ewe yew is even more crackers than i fought

Doesn't post on my threads, doesn't stalk me, but he's been at it for f*cking months, getting on years.

See how easy it is to find relevant posts?

https://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/31788281/georges-100-day-100-points-profit-challenge?origpost_id=562852831&pg=2

Why don't you try it, or don't the posts you claim I've made exist?

dopey for not knowing that. thats dope

and you are being disingenuous. you asked for opinions about his fred after having viewed it. why would you do that if you didnt think it worthy of discussion? loon

and ad hominem attacks are a sign of weakness so calling me a drunken **** doesnt favour you either, not that im offended

i doubt i said youd never make it. i will donate 100 quid to your favoured charity if i did. from fuzzy memory i said i would keep away from it as you were a loon and i didnt want to sidetrack it. have i been on since? no. not much of a storker

oh bg it looks like you is storking the storker. you dont like it up you. thats a long time ago

if you were to compile a list of people ive had a go at youd be unlikely to be in the top 20. fact. you are very sensitive

mitolo 09 Jan 23 16:56 
yo is worth the same as his. nothing.

mitolo 11 Jan 23 14:24 
not at all. disparaging you causes not a flicker.

mitolo 09 Jan 23 17:24 
i hope he knows as much about racing as he does about geo-politics.


100 to the IJF please

lol. you is crackers

and boring. bore off. you are obsessed, not me

and you have ditched richard hall. if i could be arsed id bring your discussion of him back so you could deny advertising his bollox

if thats the best you can come up with then .. after a years trawling

clue for you; decrying your nonsense is not storking. ive been accuseed of it before and every time its someone ive embarrassed. its their only comeback. unless im multi-storking

get over it you whingey old poof

^ welcher

not so

you will apologise tomorrow

apologise for what?

you being a welcher and a crazed stalker?

'motolo' is a timewaster and a wind-up merchant. He's been on 'ignore' for a very long while.