Son trainers better than dads.

Donald McCain looked like he was going to comfortably outstrip his dad at one stage, but its all gone very quiet.

Add Nicky Richards and Tim easterby to that list.

Perhaps the answer is that their fathers had to be shrewd to build things up in the first place

Hannon

Harry Wragg was a very good trainer I thought. Geoff did not let the family down as I thought he was a good stable to keep an eye on.

Andrew Balding has carried on what his father had built. Ed Bethell shows every sign of improving on his fathers efforts. Like stallions the mlo

Andrew Balding has carried on what his father had built. Ed Bethell shows every sign of improving on his fathers efforts. Like stallions the mlo

Sorry about that muddle.

the training methods don't change,
THE DADS get out at the right time
like Shannon originally and now thady the saons are brought in to bring the yards in to the social media era,bringt in find new owners from the city etc,etc

like HANNON

John Gosden perhaps.

Good spot with Bethell Sage,he's definitely upped it from his old man,bit biased as he's found some good friends of mine a brilliant horse very cheaply,my pal sends me the videos etc and also met him last week,like a lot of things in life it can be a young mans game and I can definitely see him getting more ammunition.

Geoff Wragg a class act.
James Tate isn't that bad a trainer.

GOSDEN.   worked for Jack 'Towser' Gosden at Lewes in the 50s and sixties, brilliant trainer started with nothing had all the Alex Bird gambles. A real gentleman humble and approachable. His son John another brilliant trainer but humble and approachable not sure about that one  or maybe I'am. I will leave it there.

Alan Berry.

John Dunlop was better than both his sons.

Thanks guardamar as I knew of his great gambles in the top handicaps of the day but only remember Towser at the end of his career in the 60s.

Yes definitely G Hall John Dunlop in a different league to his sons.

harry eustace doing well

Not one of you are factoring in the type of horse and cost/pedigree these trainer sons are working with

That is why Jack Channon has shown himself to be a SUPERB trainer in a short time

The notion that Thady Gosden is outperforming Jack Channon is grotesque fantasy

LOOK AT WHAT THEYRE WORKING WITH!!!!!!

BTW Backing Jack Channon blind turns a profit

Ben Haslam doing ok

Antony Brittain had a good season or 2 a while back.

What about Daughters?

Gay Kellaway Knows the time of day

Eve Johnson Houghton knows what she's doing.

A couple that spring to mind

Willie Mullins better than his father Paddy - albeit horse racing is a different beast in the current era.

Conversely, Willie's brothers Tom and Tony (who have both trained their share of big winners) are not a patch on their father.

Christopher Head.

I suppose the Best ever  example of we couldn't all do it ,just do the same as everyone else etc, is that French family/outfit giving them couple of group 1 blue bloods to train and been a weapons grade failure,or were the horses gone at the game when they got their hands on them

richard and sandra hughes...one success,one not.

Dean Ivory?

Jane Chappel Hyam

Gordon Elliott his dad Fred made a mean sausage though

Dan Moore better than his son Arthur
Edward O'Grady better than his father Willie
Bunny Cox better than his daughter Suzanne
Jessica Harrington much better than her father Brigadier Fowler
John Fowler (decd) better than his father Brigadier Fowler
Tom Dreaper better than his son Jim
Con Collins better than daughter Tracey

I mean does young Thady really want to be there?....Seems to me he would be a lot happier roaming round an Art Gallery.

If he sees Chapman coming he is off like Yousain Bolt ffs.

Jack Channon very promising. Eve JH going well but a long way to go. The one that gets me is McCain, way better than Ginger who couldn't break double figures in a season. Taxi firm, stables behind, train on the beach BUT the greatest National trainer ever.

I would substitute Gratest for luckiest Dr.

acey deucy 27 Oct 24 17:31 
If he sees Chapman coming he is off like Yousain Bolt ffs.






Can't blame him for wanting to avoid that loudmouth.

Your slowing down in yer old age sparrow i expected that post 4 minutes ago.

Apologies it only took you 30 seconds.

Correction it did take you 5 minutes.

John Wainright shocking omission.

Betting without Music Boy.

Don't need to rush on here these days as it takes at least an hour to fill a page on most threads.

5 hours if it's one of ricos.

Charlie Hills destroys your arguement

I think it`s rather unfair comparing these young trainers with their established fathers right now. Give them a chance. They are just starting out in what will be a long career. Young Thady and Charlie are class acts and handle the media much better than their illustrious fathers do.

I won`t see it, but both will be very successful. Good luck to them.

Young Thady and Charlie are class acts and handle the media much better than their illustrious fathers do.

With respect, 'mac, I'm not sure where you get that from.

John Gosden is one of the most articulate when being interviewed, and the best example imo, was the sad day when Rewilding suffered a catastrophic injury at Ascot, I'd say his words of wisdom afterwards saved racing a lot of grief from the media.

I don't wish to sound unkind, but Thady doesn't come across as the most confident when being interviewed. He tends to give short answers and looks as though he can't wait to get out of there.

Charlie is very at ease when in front of the camera and speaks well, but so too does his dad, who tends to speak his mind.

JG is articulate indeed George but sometimes he strikes me like he wants to thump Matt at times and comes across very grumpy when he gets beat, lol, but perhaps I just misread him.

I think Thady does ok and just has a quiet nature. Following in the footsteps of a parent who is a successful public figure is an extremely tough thing to do. I wouldn`t like it. Good luck to him and Charlie and all young trainers.

What I really meant was that young folk in general are more used to social media and take it with a pinch of salt when mobile phone cameras get stuck in their faces all the time. Personally, I hate mobile phones and social media and just don`t get it but then again I`m a dinosaur that lives in a time warp, lol.

Cheers George.

Philip Hobbs took over from his father who was a farmer with a few horses and built up a very strong business. It is declining now as owners that have the big pockets drift away (Peterson and Whateley) Another point about trainers is that few are one man bands. Assistants, head men and women, wives as well as children all contribute and change is usually gradual. The Bowen family is a good example with both sons now experienced and successful riders who must be a help in influencing training methods and owners.
On the flat, Maureen Haggas and Dierdre Johnson have made big contributions.

Coming up the hill, how can you have McCain on your list ?
Donald far superior to Ginger . Donald regularly has a century of wins in a season and operates at a decent s r in the high teans / 20 %.
Whereas ginger struggles to win 10 races a year with a Sr of about 5%.

No contest between them surely ?

Ginger had a rather different beginning to his training career.

McCain applied for a training permit in 1953 and began training horses in 1962, using small stables behind the showroom of his used-car store in his hometown of Southport.

Alan Berry was way better than his Dad at getting 2yo ready. Better looking too.

Sparrow, we all know that. Same can be said for Gary moores father in lewes.
But it didn't make him a better trainer than Donald.one had a 5% Sr and the other 20%.

Bin bagged, you are quite correct.

Tbh I always find it hard to comprehend quite how different their careers are. You would have thought the fathers knowledge would have rubbed off on his son. Surely he would have picked up something ?
I don't know,  Maybe alan just wasn't really into it ?

oneten 30 Oct 24 09:30 
Sparrow, we all know that. Same can be said for Gary moores father in lewes.
But it didn't make him a better trainer than Donald.one had a 5% Sr and the other 20%.




I disagree and when you look at the ammunition Donald had compared to his father then those statistics mean little. What Ginger achieved was remarkable in my view.

Sparrow, yes it was remarkable,  I'm not disputing that .

But Donald has the ammo due to his training ability. I know many will scoff because a lot slate him as a trainer , BUT when he started off,  taking over his father's yard the results improved beyond recognition and on the back of that he then attracted better quality horses to the yard.
There weren't many horses in the yard when he took over.

Ginger had a freak of a horse that was one in a million over the national fences. Had he been a good trainer he would have attracted the same ammo as Donald surely ?

Ginger was a good trainer of one horse over one course.
The horse relished the unorthodox training methods of galloping on Southport sand dunes and swimming in the sea.

I remember Alan Berry got arrested over allegations of race fixing but can't remember if it was proved. I know he lost his licence regarding horse welfare and his yard being in a sh 1t state. An absolute cretin, and yet his Dad was held in such high regard.

Ginger knew more about second hand cars than horses ffs.....A very very lucky man inho.

Ginger had a freak of a horse that was one in a million over the national fences. Had he been a good trainer he would have attracted the same ammo as Donald surely ?

Ginger was a good trainer of one horse over one course.



Amberleigh House also won the Grand National for the trainer.......     

    Colic in horses
    Ginger McCain
    Grand National


Amberleigh House, the horse who won the 2004 Grand National for Ginger McCain 27 years after Red Rum’s final victory in the race, has died aged 25.

The son of Buckskin, who was the last 12-year-old to win the big race at Aintree, suffered complications following colic surgery.

The late Ginger McCain bought Amberleigh House for £75,000 having spotted him when he won at Punchestown Festival in 2000 for trainer Michael Hourigan.

“He stood at only 15.2hh, there was very little of him but as soon as you put a saddle on him he just grew,” said racehorse trainer and Ginger’s son, Donald McCain.

“When dad saw him at Punchestown he could tell he loved his job. He was the most exceptional jumper — he had more scope than any chaser, he could take off from outside the wings and land the same distance away the other side.

I remember it well bin bagged. Hillside girl on here , went from odds on out to something like 20/1 ! I've probably exaggerated it , but it was something like that. The blacksmith got the blame..

Jack has dedicated his life after racing to helping those less fortunate. I can't  remember what it's called but he used to take wheelchair bound jocks and stable lads on summer hols to have some sunshine . A thoroughly good egg and an exceptional trainer of 2 yo.

Many many years ago I had a stallion that Jack liked and I was always very pleased when he bought offspring as it meant we might get some decent 2yo winners to help promote him .

What Stallion?

Alan was charged and the case was listed at the Old Bailey but after the collapse of the Fallon trial  the CPS lost their nerve and it was abandoned

Berry and O’Sullivan face an indictment containing a single count of conspiracy to
defraud. The allegation in brief is that between the beginning of May and the end of June
2003 they agreed to run Hillside Girl, a racehorse trained by Berry and shoed by
O’Sullivan, in a race when they knew the horse was lame. They proceeded to bet a
substantial sum that the horse would not win the race through an account held by
O’Sullivan with Betfair Ltd, profiting when she pulled up halfway through the 5 furlong
race. The prosecution say that Berry and O’Sullivan conspired to defraud other holders of
accounts with Betfair as well as customers betting with bookmakers or through the
Horserace Totaliser Board.

Acey, I'm not sure about posting on a public forum. I've nothing to hide , but I'm not sure I'm comfortable doing so. I'd prefer to send you a pm if you don't mind ?

Yes of course oneten.

Sent to you acey

David Pipe started off well but David Johnson died and its gone very quiet down there, Just Another Stable

Yes i remember him well oneten....Nice one.

Last 6 all win

It's a close one between Vincent and his son Aiden O'Brien
But the son has way more bluebloods than dad did

Jumping.

Fred Rimmel was much better than the son but when you got birds spending fortunes buying your makeup and mascara don't spouse he cares that much.

spose^ ......................sheesh!

jack berry son did beter then his dad pmsl

7 from 7

Oct 27, 2024 -- 11:11AM, Cardinal Scott wrote:

Not one of you are factoring in the type of horse and cost/pedigree these trainer sons are working withThat is why Jack Channon has shown himself to be a SUPERB trainer in a short time

!

Look at his Strike Rate (last season and this season) which was always a weakness with his Dad, Jack also has not got many High Powered owners but he deserves to

Charlie Hills

Stone Cold