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Ramruma
19 Sep 24 09:10
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Date Joined: 11 Dec 02
| Topic/replies: 16,262 | Blogger: Ramruma's blog
Frankel colt. Cost 2 million guineas. Forecast 4/5 for his debut in this 7f maiden. Entered in the Royal Lodge, the Beresford and the Futurity. 40/1 for the Derby with Hills, 33/1 at Paddy's.

But what I want to know is what the flip John Magnier has seen in this half-brother to an 80-rated handicapper and a couple of maidens. Two million guineas my 'arris. Tattersalls saw him coming.

Unless of course Magnier knows more than some washed up and pished up keyboard hack in which case take the 40s for Epsom. It is vaguely possible, I suppose. After all, Magnier found Sadler's Wells and Galileo and I found 50p down the back of the sofa.

But really?
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Report ged September 19, 2024 9:43 AM BST
"The top price on the second day of Book 1, and the highest achieved by any yearling in Europe in 2023, was the FRANKEL colt out of the LEMON DROP KID mare BIZZARRIA who realised 2,000,000 guineas. Consigned by Anthony Oppenheimer’s Hascombe & Valiant Stud, the colt was knocked down to MV Magnier & White Birch Farm after he saw off opposition from the Godolphin team and Juddmonte. 

"He is a lovely horse and from a very successful stud in Hascombe, which has bred very good horses in the past and are very good breeders," said Magnier. "This is a well bred horse, Frankel is flying and everyone liked him - he goes to Ballydoyle." 

The sale was vindication of the stud’s decision to sell its draft of yearling colts this autumn and Oppenheimer, who sat in the ring to watch his colt sell, commented: "So far we have done quite well and sold four, and we have more to sell. There were no regrets at all when he was going around the ring, I did not think we'd get as much as that but I know he is a very nice horse. It refuels the stud's finances and it can't do any harm!" 

Not in the Dewhurst though. APOB has got 3 unraced ones in that.
Report ged September 19, 2024 9:47 AM BST
"Galveston is set to be the 3rd horse bred on a Frankel x Lemon Drop Kid cross to race.

The other 2 are both Gr1 winners.  Without Parole and Courage Mon Ami."
Report Ramruma September 19, 2024 10:18 AM BST
Yeah, that might explain it.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 19, 2024 10:22 AM BST
half brothers fatha obv jussed a h/capper.
Report oneten September 19, 2024 10:36 AM BST
The colt is by reigning British and Irish champion sire Frankel and out of Bizzarria, an Anthony Oppenheimer homebred who won a Newcastle maiden but has yet to strike a home run in the breeding shed from three runners. Dual winner Bizarre Law is her best to date.

Bizzarria is by Lemon Drop Kid and from a great family. She is out of Lynnwood Chase and is therefore a full-sister to Cannock Chase, winner of the 2015 Grade 1 Canadian International. Pisco Sour, the Group 2 Prix Eugene Adam winner, is also a full-sibling.

Bizzarria is also a half-sister to the Classic heroine Star Catcher, by Sea The Stars, a three-time Group 1 winner in total as in addition to the Irish Oaks she also won the Prix Vermeille and British Champions Fillies & Mares Stakes
Report freddiewilliams September 19, 2024 5:43 PM BST
Last?
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 19, 2024 5:44 PM BST
dud.
Report Hayden September 19, 2024 5:45 PM BST
Don't think he'll ever be looking for the tin opener to open the beans though , plenty more where that came from    Happy
Report Hayden September 19, 2024 5:46 PM BST
Still waiting for that one Domino put up as a machine to come good   Happy
Report FOYLESWAR September 19, 2024 5:51 PM BST
big boat !
Report FOYLESWAR September 19, 2024 5:52 PM BST
needs 3 mile
Report impossible123 September 19, 2024 5:56 PM BST
What happened? Jockey gave up? I see he was last.
Report Cider September 19, 2024 5:57 PM BST
Tough to swallow for the connections.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 19, 2024 5:57 PM BST
was beaten and moore eased it.
Report impossible123 September 19, 2024 5:58 PM BST
Connections? Easy come, easy go!
Report doorman99 September 19, 2024 5:59 PM BST
Gary told us beforehand coltish and rearing up in paddock, signs beforehand not great.
Report Cider September 19, 2024 6:00 PM BST
Jess told us that AOB can get one ready fto :p
Report Cider September 19, 2024 6:01 PM BST
Yup that 2 million purchase is going to be revved up by AOB for his first race! Er, probably not.
Report impossible123 September 19, 2024 6:18 PM BST
Coolmore sold many that were either mediocre or useless with no money back guarantee or a discount either, if not a racehorse. However, the expensive colt has been entered for the Royal Lodge at Newmarket and Futurity Trophy at Doncaster. A blip today or flatter to deceive at home?
Report Cider September 19, 2024 6:22 PM BST
Unlikely Moore would have been jocked up if it was a dud. Well known AOBs can bounce back from a lacklustre debut. Obvious to write but too early to write off.
Report FOYLESWAR September 19, 2024 6:24 PM BST
trip looked  too short given  breeding and relatives but it was a dissapointing run
Report punchestown September 19, 2024 6:32 PM BST
" Listen,We always knew he was a special horse..."
Report impossible123 September 19, 2024 7:21 PM BST
^^Did AOB say that prior to his debut? I think most have learnt to play AOB at his own game; Auguste Rodin was beaten fairly and squarely. He's been hyped, and he won a substandard Derby.
Report oneten September 19, 2024 7:53 PM BST
In case it got beat he came out with his preparations beforehand and said it would come on for the run.
Report impossible123 September 19, 2024 7:58 PM BST
What else could AOB say? Galveston finished LAST; he'd not do any worse next time. Ithink Mr Campbell will not be pleased if he was still alive; Galveston was one of his great hits.
Report oneten September 19, 2024 8:14 PM BST
It's amazing how many of these million pound + jobs don't go on to be any good.
Though I suppose if you buy enough of them and find the 'one' 2 million pounds is only 6 coverings.
They can buy an awful lot of toads to look for their prince.
Report differentdrum September 19, 2024 8:44 PM BST
Well done original poster. Racing Post built it up yesterday, and I doubt Racing TV cast any similar doubts.
Report punchestown September 19, 2024 9:39 PM BST
^^Did AOB say that prior to his debut? I think most have learnt to play AOB at his own game; Auguste Rodin was beaten fairly and squarely. He's been hyped, and he won a substandard Derby


---------------------

Nah,it was just a joke,he says it so often about horses nobody pays any heed when he says it now.
Report themightymac September 20, 2024 3:30 AM BST
I remember the original Galveston.

It was definitely owned by Lord Derby and trained by either B van Custem or W Hastings Bass? The former I think but not 100% sure. Late 20th century. 80s I think.
Report EastLower Gooner September 20, 2024 9:36 AM BST
Can we just fast forward to where this horse is owned by JP, trained by Joseph and going for the Triumph?

I know it’s first time out and he might improve next time but Jesus…he looks absolute slow boat.

He’s got no change of gear whatsoever lol
Report differentdrum September 21, 2024 12:04 PM BST
Galveston by Sir Ivor, raced for Hastings- Bass. Raced 79-81, winning 7 times, Timeform rated 114. Finished second in the 1981 Magnet Cup carrying over 10 stone.
Report themightymac September 21, 2024 3:01 PM BST
Thanks DD for the info. Much appreciated. Galveston was a decent horse indeed.
Report ged September 21, 2024 3:10 PM BST
I was at York that day. Galveston was 2nd to Amyndas, a lightly-raced 3yo of Bruce Hobbs who'd won the Glasgow Maiden over C/D by a wide margin. Galveston was giving nearly 2 stone to Amyndas, who went on to be placed in the Champion Stakes and the B&H.
Report themightymac September 21, 2024 3:28 PM BST
I remember Amyndas Ged. George Cambanis colours and I think (but not 100% sure) that he was a produce of the wonder mare Stilvi. With hindsight, trying to give 2st to him was an impossible feat. Think Tony Ives rode Galveston most times and Willie Carson of course.

Talking of Lord Derby, I may be well wrong here but another horse that sticks in my mind is Mystificateur or something similar. I think it may have been on Vernons Sprint Cup Day and it ran with Willie aboard, went right across the track and jumped or nearly jumped the far side rail. For some reason I connect Lord Derby with him but I think it may have been Daniel Wildenstein`s horse. Time can mix one`s memories up so I may be well out with my recollection.
Report ged September 21, 2024 3:32 PM BST
I think of that horse as Cecil's. A tall handsome horse who got sweaty. I'll check.

Amyndas was the Cambanis colours, but not out of Stilvi. Can't remember the breeding.
Report themightymac September 21, 2024 3:35 PM BST
Thanks Ged. Much appreciated.
Report ged September 21, 2024 5:01 PM BST
Mystificateur was owned by Wildenstein. That race at Haydock was the first on the card on Lancashire Oaks (+ Eclipse) day in July.

His last run was just about 45 years ago today - he was a beaten fav (4th of 6) in the Strathclyde hcap on Ayr Gold Cup (John Splendid) day.


Amyndas' dam was Gem of Gems, who was owned and bred by Major Holliday, trained by Walter Wharton, and was part of the dispersal of his stock (he died in 1965) at the end of her 3yo season. She won on her 2yo debut, and managed a 3rd of 6 in the Falmouth Stakes at 3, though the race didn't have the same status that it has now. She was then bought by Ribblesdale Stud, which was founded by Jeremy Hindley's father. Amyndas was by Sparkler.
Report themightymac September 21, 2024 7:02 PM BST
Great stuff ged. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. 45 years ago wow!

Funny how one question gets answers that trigger more memories.

I remember the Holliday colours well, I think, White, Maroon hoop on body and sleeves and Maroon cap.

But I remember the colours from the 70s and 80s. Would that be Major Holliday`s son then? What was his name? Pretty certain that the Major Was Lionel Brook Holliday or am I getting mixed up?

Another memory triggered by the excellent info was Robert Sidebottom the apprentice attached to the Elsey stable. Whatever happened to Robert? He was a top apprentice back then.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 21, 2024 9:05 PM BST
Ged.As usual great memories. I was at Ayr that day 45 years, oh my.
Mac.Was Sidebottom not with Denys Smith or rode some for him.Think LB's son was simply Brook could be wrong.
Report the old nanny ;-) September 21, 2024 11:18 PM BST
nice place Galveston
Report themightymac September 21, 2024 11:36 PM BST
You know Tommy, I think that you are right on both counts. Your post jogged my memory bank. I`m pretty sure Denys Smith trained for the Hollidays.

.... Denys Smith was a good trainer.
Report themightymac September 21, 2024 11:42 PM BST
What price in running on the David Robinson horse here lol.

Pontefract 1970

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrNQKsuKFmw
Report ged September 22, 2024 10:00 AM BST
mac - father and son had the same name - Lionel Brook Holiday, although it seems the father was known as Lionel, and the son as Brook. The father was the 'Major' (he served as such in WW1).

The Major tended to name horses he bred with their first letter the same as that of their sire, so he bred Neasham Belle (1951 Oaks) by Nearco, Hethersett (1962 St Leger) by Hugh Lupus, and Vaguely Noble by Vienna. Gem of Gems was by Grey Sovereign.

He had a reputation for sacking trainers and jockeys. His private trainers were Geoffrey Brooke (sacked in 1952 a year after winning the Major's first classic for him with Neasham Belle), Humphrey Cottrill (sacked in 1957, a year after the Major was leading breeder in Britain and Cottrill had his best season), Dick Hern (left of his own accord in 1962 to set up in West Ilsley) and Walter Wharton (sacked by son Brook in 1967).

Vaguely Noble was the best horse he bred, but he never got to see him race.

His son Brook didn't have a private trainer, but had horses with several trainers, including Dick Hern, Denys Smith, Jonathan Pease, Henry Candy, Michael Stoute, Henry Cecil and James Bethell (his brother in law). He died in 2014.
Report ged September 22, 2024 10:14 AM BST
One horse Brook Holliday had with Denys Smith was Royal Prerogative, who was the meat in the sandwich in the bumping match in the infamous 1974 Queen Anne when the first 3 were all DQ'd, leaving the winner to be, coincidentally, Brook.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 22, 2024 10:51 AM BST
Ged-Thanks once again for filling in the blanks. The only trainer I don't recall was Jonathan Pease. Pretty sure Denys trained one for the Holidays called Reformed Character.
Getting back to Galveston that was indeed some performance in the Magnet Cup.

Mac-Agree Denys Smith was a very good trainer.I'm sure he trained one called Tudenham or similar to win the Middle Park ridden by Lindley which dosn't get mentioned often.Not owned by Holiday as I recall.
Report ged September 22, 2024 11:13 AM BST
Tudenham won the Middle Park - and was owned by Brook Holiday (by Tudor Melody). He was ex Heath Rose (by Hugh Lupus), ex Cherished (by Chanteur), ex Netherton Maid (by Nearco), ex Phase, ex Lost Soul - all Holliday mares, Lost Soul being one of the Major's foundation mares that he bought in 1932.
Report ged September 22, 2024 11:22 AM BST
Lester won on Reformed Character for Denys Smith/Holliday in the last race on the Thursday at Ayr this week in 1973. Melchbourne won the Harry Rosebery, and Tom Noddy the Ayrshire hcap.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 22, 2024 12:09 PM BST
Thanks Ged you've done it again. Great knowledge really appreciate your replys.
Tom Noddy a name I will always remember. A group of four of us went to Ayr for the Scottish National early seventies think it was Quick Reply's year. In those days it was a mixed meeting and one of the guys (the least knowledgeable among us Cry) backed all seven winners. As the day went on I kept opposing his selections including Tom Noddy and Quick Reply. Arctic Sunset looked really good in the last (K Oliver) but I just stood and watched Cry. I may be wrong but Denys Smith may have trained the Scottish Champion Hurdle winner that day.
Report ged September 22, 2024 1:40 PM BST
You've got me guessing now Tommy!

Dondieu won the Scottish Champion Hurdle for Denys Smith in 1971, but that was Yound Ash Leaf's year. Quick Reply was 1972.

Arctic Sunset was killed in a fall at Sandown in Feb, 1968. Ayr was on that day - Playlord and Arcturus were winners. It was also the day when Into View (50/1) beat Salmon Spray (8/11) in the Oteley Hurdle. That race wasn't on TV, but I can still remember the result coming up on the TV screen in b/w with the hand-written details. Salmon was 10yo then, but Into View had never run before.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 22, 2024 1:48 PM BST
Thanks Ged. I'm obviously getting my years mixed up. I was there for Playlord/Young Ash Leaf/Quick Reply. Going out now to practice my golf, will have a think about it and will come back to the thread.
Report themightymac September 22, 2024 6:32 PM BST
Great info from Ged and DD as usual. Some great names listed. Great memories.

I never knew that interesting fact about the naming of the Major`s horse.

A lot of them big owners had similar trends. One that I do remember well is that Marcia, Lady Beaverbrook named the vast majority of her horses with names composed of 7 letters, although there may be the odd exception.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 22, 2024 6:38 PM BST
Ged- I tried Jockeypedia to seek clarification.Tried two different email addresses both came back rejected.
You mention Playlord and Arcturus and I assume that they won different races as I saw both winning the big race in different years. I will stand by everything else I remember of the day but it may have been Arctic Explorer in the last.
I'm totally confused now. Cry
Report TommyWestofLanark September 22, 2024 6:47 PM BST
Mac-I knew about how Lady B and LB Holiday named  their horses. I loved those times.Happy
Report themightymac September 22, 2024 7:15 PM BST
Here is the controversial Queen Anne Stakes of 1974 as mentioned above with Royal Prerogative for anybody who hasn`t seen it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR0iaoL_qQE

Those were the days.
Report ged September 22, 2024 8:02 PM BST
Tommy - you were mainly correct then...

1972:-
Varangus 3/1 (fto 2yo for Denys Smith)
Avondhu 8/1 (2m chase)
Quick Reply 11/1 (Scot GN)
Mercian 7/1 (mile hcap)
Tom Noddy 5/1 (maiden win. 1m)
Coral Diver 3/1 (Scot CH)
Arctic Explorer 5/2jt fav (Ken Oliver, 2m chase)
Report ged September 22, 2024 8:12 PM BST
Incidentally, 7yo Red Rum was in that Scottish Grand National - he was unplaced at 33s with 9-7.
Report differentdrum September 22, 2024 8:35 PM BST
Bit of a digression but Into View and Coral Diver were two of the earliest horses I can remember watching. Into View won a terrific race for the Hermitage Chase in 1971 beating Spanish Steps a short head. Proof you didn't need many runners to create a spectacle. He would probably have been at his peak that season, but injury kept him off the track for two years, and he was never the same again. I think they tried him as a hunter chaser with Jenny Pitman before he was retired. I think the Oakseys might have had something to do with him as well. He started joint favourite for the 1971 Gold Cup, but Cheltenham wasn't his track, and the testing ground wouldn't have suited him either as two and half miles would have been his optimum trip. Coral Diver was another who potentially would have been at his best in 1970/71, but having won five in a row injury kept him off the track for over a year. Again he wasn't quite as good on return although he did give weight and a beating to a declining Persian War in that Scottish Champion.
Report differentdrum September 22, 2024 8:37 PM BST
On the subject of Red Rum, Coral Diver had him behind when making a succesful jumping debut at Doncaster.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 22, 2024 8:48 PM BST
differentdrum- Coral Diver trained by the great Fred Rimmel. I may be wrong but I believe started off with Pat Rohan and was owned by Brian Jenks.
Report differentdrum September 22, 2024 9:42 PM BST
Yes, that's correct. He won 3 on the flat for Rohan (Johnny Seagrave and Geoff Oldroyd amongst the winning riders), and 1 for Piggott after he was switched to Rimell. Ged may correct me, but I think Normandy (who won 3 on the flat in Ireland) and Coral Diver were the best two horses that Jenks owned. Normandy won a Gloucestershire Hurdle and the first Sweeps Hurdle beating the likes of Persian War, Major Rose, Clever Scot and Leap Frog. He won 8 of his first 9 races over hurdles, retired as an entire, and had limited success as a sire. I think Von Trappe might have been his best horse? Coral Diver won the 1969 Triumph Hurdle. Rimell also won the same race with Zarib in 1972, but he was probably fortunate that Official didn't make the race.
Report workrider September 22, 2024 11:09 PM BST
I had my last £1 on Brook that day , I had no money left and was on my last pint in the Seven Sisters Pub in Broad Lane Tottenham that day so the news was a God send...Cool
Report TommyWestofLanark September 23, 2024 7:35 PM BST
differentdrum- Zarib was a very promising novice chaser unfortunately died at a fence right in front of the stands at Ayr at a Scottish National meeting early seventies.A horrible sight.
Report Hayden September 23, 2024 7:50 PM BST
Sadly reminds me of another Ayr fall in the Scottish Champion Hurdle in the late seventies in Golden Cygnet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtieDQ9blK4
Report TommyWestofLanark September 23, 2024 8:28 PM BST
Hayden- Yes I was there that day as well. Looked a great prospect.
Report differentdrum September 23, 2024 8:29 PM BST
Rimell had two decent juveniles, Zarib and North Pole, in that 71/72 season. Both ex-Irish (originating from the same stable), North Pole was borderline Group class in his short flat career, and went off favourite for Triumph with Zarib a 16/1 shot. Although he had only won once over hurdles, Zarib was far more consistent than his stablemate. The next season Zarib won 3/4, but presumably, he had leg trouble and was off for considerable periods. Hence he didn't make his chase debut until aged eight in 1976. He won three races over fences before meeting his demise in that Ayr Future Champions race. The race was won by Crofton Hall. There's a picture of Zarib approaching that fence in the Timeform annual of 76/77. If ever you would have known a horse was going to make a mistake that was it.
Report themightymac September 23, 2024 8:44 PM BST
I was at Ayr that tragic day too Hayden and Tommy. They reckon Golden Cygnet was going to be a true champion and I don`t know anybody that would disagree. Very very sad. Worst ever for me was when Gay George was tragically killed at Windsor. My favourite all time hurdler. Trained by Fulke Walwyn for the Duke of Devonshire and usually ridden by the great Bill Smith. The golden age of hurdlers indeed.
Report punchestown September 23, 2024 9:47 PM BST
Speaking of Fred  Rimell,he really fancied Western Rose in that 1978 Supreme and was flabbergasted at what Golden Cygnet did to it,he actually said he had  to check back to see if the O'Grady horse  joined in on the home turn.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 23, 2024 9:48 PM BST
differentdrum-I watched that Golden Cygnet link you sent it was a horrible fall indeed.I ended up watching Champion Hurdles 80/81/82 on youtube also. As Mac says the golden age of hurdlers.I feel really lucky to have seen most of them on the course in action.
Report differentdrum September 23, 2024 11:15 PM BST
The golden era was 68-81. Unfortunately, My first trip to the Festival was 1981. I can remember Lesley Ann won the Sun Alliance with Wayward Lad disappointing.

Hayden put that previous link up, but here's Golden Cygnet's last three wins:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXfWjMwFB8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auQhxmK2uq4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mp5QYaPUNc
Report differentdrum September 24, 2024 1:44 PM BST
Just a couple of other bits relating to the above.

Terry Biddlecombe quotes the Zarib/North Pole Triumph as the end of his partnership with the Rimell yard.

I haven't got the form book for that Ayr Future Champions, but I assume one of my favourites, Tree Tangle, went off favourite. He inherited a disappointing third when Zarib came down. Thought he was hard done by to get a Timeform squiggle. At his best (around the time he had a sequence of 7/8) he wasn't far off the best hurdlers. Andy Turnell rated him the best he rode. Unfortunately, he was at his best on flat tracks, and Cheltenham didn't suit. He also seemed best in the first half of seasons, and his tendancy to break blood vessels also didn't help his cause. Rather like Piggott on the flat, Turnell would quite often produce them swinging on the bridle only to get a limited response when let down.
Report themightymac September 24, 2024 4:22 PM BST
If my memory is correct, Tree Tangle was a very good chaser too. Did he not win the Black & White premier novice chase or something similar in his first season over fences? It was a prestigious race for novice chasers back in the day. Great horse DD.
Report differentdrum September 24, 2024 4:56 PM BST
I will settle for very good. That 1976 Black & White win was the pinnacle of his chasing career. He outspeeded a very good horse in Border Incident. Tree Tangle probably went chasing a season too late.
Report themightymac September 25, 2024 7:51 PM BST
I would agree, too late but he was still right up there with the best.

Tingle Creek one of his victims here as Andy produces him as late as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xe7R3t86mE
Report freddiewilliams October 12, 2024 2:02 PM BST
Ttt
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