has the Betfair Exchange lost its magic touch?

Cider posted,when us lot are dead,the game will be fkd.

It could well be true.

From my experience,when you became 18,you could go in a pub and a bookies.there was no mobile phones or internet,teletext was the big new thing,waiting for the result to appear on there.

Once in the shop,the only thing to do was look at the sporting life,then the post in when it replaced it.so you was effectively forced to look at the form,

Now 18 year olds ,probably don’t go in shops,everything on their phone,they bet on footy first,then maybe racing on big days,
So they don’t even know where to get the form,let alone read it.

So they rely  on comments,ratings,the new hated card by the post etc.plus tips.then maybe famous jockeys etc.

Maybe if you can keep them half interested till they’re 50 they might then start to be intrigued by the form,once their kids have grown up and have more time.

The gaps between races allowed you to look at the form,or forced you to look at the form,now why would you ,where would an 18 yr old start.

notfair was in decline before pp got their hands on it. probably enabled them to do so

and then breon corcoran accelerated the decline and legged it with a chunky pay-off. he did more damage than anyone. should be crucified upside down

ev race im 10/1 to win a tenner..90% of clicks returns a few pence or ghosted.

criminal.

Turnover on the horses and liquidity on the exchange are both in decline, and the two facts seem related.

Either bettors conscious of where the best price is aren't betting on here, or the fixed odds firms are not recycling recreational-money liabilities back through the exchange. In truth I'm not sure they ever did much of that.

I'm sure we can all imagine a healthier state of affairs for both racing and bettors. Small form- or angled-based winners are accommodated at a simple bookmaker owned by racing, and this bookmaker makes a much bigger contribution to the sport. It advertises best price and winners welcome, and--because the OR or commission take invariably defeats almost all punters--gives back more to racing.

The question I had reading the RP article was--why doesn't this happen? Why doesn't an arm's-length toat style bookmaker not buy the exchange? Apparently the exchange is 2% of the Stars Group revenues? Do the hardened accountant-type bookmakers running the group really want it? They want the tissue, sure, but they would get that anyway; and they would get rid of the machine shrewdies.

Why doesn't this happen?

rico, you say there are tenners+ in the boxes when you click. Why don't you observe/ make a video of what happens to those bets after a second if you don't click (obv you have to be honest with yourself in the experiment).

most of the time wen i click 1000 they are trading mebbe 100 ish..i see money in ev box..(mostly 1-3 quids at those prices) wen i click ev penny vanishes instantly every time without fail..1 sec later i get a return..mostly pences..im laying 3-4 a race in these circumstances and getting sometimes £4-5 a race.
no..its KnottFAIR...its exploitation on a grand scale.

its not my acc being ghosted..as ev penny matched at big prices is mine.

Howard: If racing's income had been smashed by the high turnover / low profits exchange model such value would not exist imo.

It depends who owns the model, if it effectively becomes a monopoly provider.

If racing owned it as much as the state TABs do in Australia, they would still be value for the informed small-stakes punter. The situation would be better all round.

*there

*there

Flag Carrier
330
£0.01
£3.30
Flag Carrier
350
£0.01
£3.50
Flag Carrier
370
£0.13
£48.10
Flag Carrier
420
£0.04
£16.80
Flag Carrier
440
£0.01
£4.40
Flag Carrier
450
£0.69
£310.50
Flag Carrier
500
£0.01
£5.00
Flag Carrier
550
£0.01
£5.50
Flag Carrier
640
£0.01
£6.40
Flag Carrier
650
£0.01
£6.50
Flag Carrier
660
£0.01
£6.60
Flag Carrier
700
£0.01
£7.00
Flag Carrier
770
£0.01
£7.70
Flag Carrier
800
£0.05
£40.00
Flag Carrier
880
£0.01
£8.80
Flag Carrier
990
£0.02
£19.80
Flag Carrier
1,000
£0.51
£510.00
Ribble Radiant
640
£0.81
£518.40
Ribble Radiant
770
£0.08
£61.60
Ribble Radiant
1,000
£0.86
£860.00
Colour Code
1,000
£0.18
£180.00

I suspect that the money you are seeing is gone before your lay hits the market and what you are getting is mostly some crossmatching scraps.

what you see is clickbait..it isnt real..as ive sed..ev click the money vanishes whilst your request is analysed.

Lay (Bet Against)
Backer's odds
Backer's stake
Payout
Liability
Blue Hero
180
£0.55
£99.00
Blue Hero
200
£0.01
£2.00
Blue Hero
220
£0.01
£2.20
Blue Hero
230
£0.25
£57.50
Blue Hero
240
£3.07
£736.80
Blue Hero
320
£0.55
£176.00
Blue Hero
420
£0.03
£12.60
Blue Hero
430
£0.10
£43.00
Blue Hero
440
£0.01
£4.40
Blue Hero
480
£0.08
£38.40
Blue Hero
500
£0.03
£15.00
Blue Hero
530
£0.10
£53.00
Blue Hero
550
£0.01
£5.50
Blue Hero
640
£0.01
£6.40
Blue Hero
650
£0.01
£6.50
Blue Hero
660
£0.01
£6.60
Blue Hero
700
£0.01
£7.00
Blue Hero
730
£0.10
£73.00
Blue Hero
770
£0.01
£7.70
Blue Hero
800
£0.05
£40.00
Blue Hero
880
£0.01
£8.80
Blue Hero
990
£0.02
£19.80
Blue Hero
1,000
£1.20
£1,200.00
Dovena
420
£0.01
£4.20
Dovena
440
£0.01
£4.40
Dovena
500
£0.01
£5.00
Dovena
540
£0.12
£64.80
Dovena
550
£0.01
£5.50
Dovena
640
£0.01
£6.40
Dovena
650
£0.01
£6.50
Dovena
660
£0.01
£6.60
Dovena
700
£0.01
£7.00
Dovena
750
£0.03
£22.50
Dovena
770
£0.01
£7.70
Dovena
800
£0.05
£40.00
Dovena
880
£0.01
£8.80
Dovena
990
£0.06
£59.40
Buxted Reel
1,000
£0.63
£630.00
Spitfire Bridge
200
£0.01
£2.00
Spitfire Bridge
220
£0.01
£2.20
Spitfire Bridge
290
£0.29
£84.10
Spitfire Bridge
310
£0.04
£12.40
Spitfire Bridge
330
£0.01
£3.30
Spitfire Bridge
350
£0.01
£3.50
Spitfire Bridge
390
£0.05
£19.50
Spitfire Bridge
420
£0.04
£16.80
Spitfire Bridge
440
£0.01
£4.40
Spitfire Bridge
500
£0.01
£5.00
Spitfire Bridge
550
£0.01
£5.50
Spitfire Bridge
640
£0.01
£6.40
Spitfire Bridge
650
£0.01
£6.50
Spitfire Bridge
660
£0.01
£6.60
Spitfire Bridge
700
£0.01
£7.00
Spitfire Bridge
770
£0.01
£7.70
Spitfire Bridge
800
£0.05
£40.00
Spitfire Bridge
880
£0.01
£8.80
Spitfire Bridge
990
£0.02
£19.80

how 95% of the time does £1 morph into pences? cos its betspreadyourbetknottFAIR.

Horse Racing / Tramore 17th Aug : 1m4f Stks
17-Aug-24 18:00    17-Aug-24 18:06    5.86
Horse Racing / Curragh 17th Aug : 6f Hcap
17-Aug-24 17:45    17-Aug-24 17:54    3.92
Horse Racing / Bath 17th Aug : 1m5f Hcap
17-Aug-24 17:40    17-Aug-24 17:45    7.68
Horse Racing / Perth 17th Aug : 2m4f Hcap Hrd
17-Aug-24 17:35    17-Aug-24 17:43    3.87
Horse Racing / Tramore 17th Aug : 1m4f Mdn
17-Aug-24 17:30    17-Aug-24 17:36    8.14
Horse Racing / Doncaster 17th Aug : 1m Hcap
17-Aug-24 17:25    17-Aug-24 17:29    7.33
Horse Racing / Market Rasen 17th Aug : 2m1f Hcap Chs
17-Aug-24 17:20    17-Aug-24 17:25    7.04
Horse Racing / Newbury 17th Aug : 1m2f Hcap
17-Aug-24 17:15    17-Aug-24 17:18    1.98
Horse Racing / Curragh 17th Aug : 7f Hcap
17-Aug-24 17:10    17-Aug-24 17:14    0.29
Horse Racing / Perth 17th Aug : 2m4f Nov Hcap Chs
17-Aug-24 17:05    17-Aug-24 17:13    2.22
Horse Racing / Ripon 17th Aug : 1m4f Hcap
17-Aug-24 16:59    17-Aug-24 17:03    8.94
Horse Racing / Newmarket 17th Aug : 1m Hcap
17-Aug-24 16:55    17-Aug-24 17:01    7.07

last 12 races dave..abso comedy gold.

I,d say maj of forum as much as they like to back a winner make a few quid,it always comes 2nd to solving the puzzel,enoying a horserace,winning with one you've followed over a cliff etc,if not you might as well buy shares, chase best bank saving rates,swapp to accounts you get paid to swap, etc etc if making a few quid anyhow.anyway is you game, MATT WILLIANS I assume is the scouser always on the TV ruk,ATR etc , seemed to love the horses /game ,cant see what he gets out of drone syndicates/ultra fast pics etc ,IMO he,s basicaly fleecing/conning fellow racegoers/punters and as seems to be happening EVENTUALY you run out of mug punters to fleece and now the mug punters have reached the levels of once pro punters like nevo,the shoe etc,etc ,I bet/punt/watch horses.golf,football but if all 3 finished tomorrow I wouldn't look for something else to punt on I don't do lottery,fruit machines,Vegas games etc

Ironic that the biggest mouth and Fraud on the Forum is crying about a situation he was happy to claim he took advantage of in the good old days?

You could not make it up but would not expect anything else from a self proclaimed idiot who never realised that winning £3 mil and losing double does not add up to a profit!!!

CagliariG 27 May 24 19:27
We have laid it to lose £155 K min sparrow and hope for more!!!

glentoby 26 Jan 18  21:50

As far as I am aware I personally own the only method which will produce a long term profit,not a "system" as popularly refered to and devised after 2 decades + of research.My sole motivation for posting on any racing or betting forum is to give the average punter an edge.No more,no less.

My method would be no good to the average or even prudent punter or greedy chancers.I had an offer to purchase it following a trial by 4 individuals on the BF Forum,over a year using it.Bound by copyright etc and proven beyond doubt the worth of it.

The only time I was tempted to sell I had an offer that was £40,000 short of the £600,000 I would accept.All documented and recorded for posterity.I would only sell on condition that the proceeds went to SSAFA,knowing full well that would be the only payoff.

The offer came from a well known tipping operation who continue to rip off punters Nationwide and now coming up to their most lucrative period.

It is still for sale but £600k is the minumum I would consider to part with it on behalf of SSAFA!!

tobymugs accusing people of being a fraud...ewe cud nae mek it up...WAC   🧐

So you knew it was you?

Offered many times shafter to show you the original but you always ran away, ditto others who do the same?

I wonder why?

so tobymug sez won 3 million ..lost 6 million but portal still showing a prophet...

happy daze..

As long as your imaginary portal makes you happy shafter, hope you use a lubrication before being beamed up!!

TOBYMUGS

Sad you have have to get so low shafter, tbf you never did rise very high!!

The rusty tranny probably being the highest before getting nicked!!

the same rusty tranny you're lubing the snickers launcher of?

Case rested!!

Ffs

.

Major point there is 17.23/24pm imo. I honestly don't think you would say it lightly.i could believe that,major point whatever way you look at it.

Never should be allowed to happen and you really need to find the answers though easier said than done.

Roger.

I'm saying that in good faith, a simple email explaining your grievance and asking them could they provide an explanation would knock out maybe some things,no harm imo,their attitude might be a fo but you may be saying that point is there?

no-one tells the truth in this cesspit of a planet..

Rico,some have a semblance of a conscience, we will all be on a death bed for some time the longer we are the more questions we ask ourselves,great way to go and probably all we have if more than oneself says it.

also a greed and stupidity planet.

Go Ballistic: something will change whether that is the comm rate going back up or ACs or other gambling law restrictions or BF going belly up or ....

I think they would if they could on the commission, but they can't on UK racing because of competition from purple and, to a lesser degree, Sm*arkets and M*tchb**k.

The small price-takers dipping into the market without technological advantages get essentially the same prices at lower-liquidity, coarser-price Purple than they do here. With these punters, the competition between providers on the comm rate is genuine. It was the people who were botted-up, who hit the exchange multiple times per second, who sucked up ricks and anomalies, who needed BF and its whole ecosystem of sometimes malfunctioning bots, people making errors, bettors capitulating. BF didn't need them and did all they could to stop them draining the pool with the structure of their premium charge.

Good post Askari1.

I get a lot of that however if you were 'taking on' a big market maker in the sense you thought a few prices were out but the market maker was ultimately ahead, do you take from the initial small fella or the main market maker? You shouldn't really take from both imo.

Biggest thing maybe is time versus money,does it pay? costs?, probably for a very few,should click with many it may not.

@Lapsy PA  The big market maker will be ahead in being filled in. The market maker wins / makes money in (roughly) balancing a book, or having (say) 60-70% of their prices stay on the right side of the spread or move out, rather than have by the prices taken by the skilled price-takers crash through their lays with nothing else being backed.

Whether the small skilled winner wins from the recreational player or the market-maker is academic, provided the market-maker can keep going. Ultimately in this sense the winning price-taker takes from the sporting users. The problem for all the winners, including BF / the operator, is that there are too few of the sporting users. And they're betting too small.

The key issue with any type of market has to be how much of the mug money finds its way to the exchange. A relevant comparison for me would be between horses and cricket, where the layers hedging into BF are (supposedly) illegal subcontinental bookmakers. Liquidity on the cricket is huge; the books are essentially creaming the difference between their laid and the saddle price. On British horses, the FO books have found ways to work out, approximately, the true prices (no doubt leveraging information of who was betting with them on what), without having to give up so much of the value of their in-built positive expectation bets with shop and non-barred online customers.

think we,re all in agreement that for most the money on Betfair now the RACING/ACTUAL SPORTING part of it,horse,jock,tactics etc are redundant, they might as well be forming a book around an horse racing arcade game,which then feeds in to why the racing game is dying on its Arris, dizzy rascal got more mentions on it yesterday than any horse running and they were boasting about a dizzy rascal inspired 13,000 crowd on a sunny Saturday at newbury with a couple of graded races on the card as a brilliant crowd

I heard lord derby at York the other day try to say around 20,000 was decent crowd /average for York when discussing dwindling crowds ,20 yrs ago they were getting 47,000 for MAGNET CUP DAY

dizzy rascal got more mentions on it yesterday than any horse running and they were boasting about a dizzy rascal inspired 13,000 crowd on a sunny Saturday at newbury with a couple of graded races on the card as a brilliant crowd

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

agreed 1tp...

i presume Dizzy is a pop star ?

take away the 'music after racing' events and how many folk turn up to watch the racing ?

Newmarket on a Friday night how many are there to see horse racing ?

very few imv.

Ladies day at Musselburgh the other day...

aye there was a big crowd...

most of whom looked like they were young lads/lasses looking for a pick up after getting hammered all afternoon...

and that's fine...

but let's not dress it up as 'racing gets big crowds'...

coz it ain't.

TBF Perth looked fairly rammed at their meeting yesterday too - racing can get crowds still, at times. Probably the sunnier and holiday/weekend type meetings.

Not sure anyone would be boasting about a crowd for comparison at something like Chelmsford in February though!

why lie,why take people for fools,oily bell stood outside train satation prentending those getting off train are coming to watch racing when we all no maj are coming nto watch the pop concert,the gravey train that stupid they cant even see their admitting racing can survive without the concerts,not stopping for a nano second to think how many genuine racegoers stay away on conceret days because of costs,type of crowd etc

Spellchecker required or Pished imo.

got to agree 1tp...

but the media don't help in ANY aspect of racing imv...

when do they ever call out dodgy rides / dodgy betting patterns / anything dodgy whatsoever ?

NEVER (or extremely rarely)...

they take the public for total mugs and 'play the game'..

as does the BHA btw coz they know if they really wanted to clean the game up there would be hardly anyone left imv.

last 18 races ive playing ive w0n over £10 wonce.. £10.89

that itself is a 1.000,000/1 chance.

Will u lay me a million to a poon . The next 18

Aug 18, 2024 -- 3:05PM, Rico-Dangleflaps wrote:

last 18 races ive playing ive w0n over £10 wonce.. £10.89that itself is a 1.000,000/1 chance.

Time to adapt your game?

to what? gambling?  nt too lazy.

Its a sobering though for me this year. I have lost £1300 backing on the exchange and won £1100 matched betting with bookies. Seems to me next yo impossible winning on the exchange these days. Something has defo changed feels like so many well backed horses win and drifters always lose. Thats why there is no market anymore before 10 mins to off. People just waiting to see order flow. This to me indicates that the game is not fair anymore

Aug 18, 2024 -- 3:46PM, Rico-Dangleflaps wrote:

to what? gambling?

If taking high price back offers is consistently no longer paying then perhaps it's time to try something different? Whatever the reason, fair or otherwise, moaning about it won't get you anywhere. There's still plenty of opportunity if you adapt. I've just had my most successful 3-day run ever. Perhaps try leveraging the advantage of instant cancellation and offer rather than take?

Wasting you time Jamee, he has not a clue how to make a book and less of a clue about form or anything else to do with racing, could not even get copper piping right in his heyday!!

aint moaning...ive made fortunes..merely stating that its now controlled by technollogy and certainly isnt BetFAIR anymore.

ROFL!!!

Go Jamee go

Must be factual if shafter posts it, how many times have you lost on proof challenges shafter, easier tbh if you state how many you won?

CagliariG 18 Aug 24 16:21 
Wasting you time Jamee, he has not a clue how to make a book and less of a clue about form or anything else to do with racing,

this the clown that left the league naps comp when in 22nd plaice...pmsl. wac

Struggling again shafter, try harder!!!

was it 21st?

Yes always adapt to the new situation

A competitive handicap attracts 120K as winner crosses line. 3.50 Thirsk

Where is the bottom? we're slowly moving into Greyhound territory. 

dying slowly - I got a message saying I've reached my monthly deposit limit of £300 per month .... I didn't set it of course .... only a small number of years ago I turned over £3 million in one year, losing £50k all in commission to Betfair. Now I'm allowed to deposit £300 per month! :D :D hilarious

Someone hovered the lot on that photo

2.6 to 1.2

Rico needs knew tyre fur brown vag

dying slowly - I got a message saying I've reached my monthly deposit limit of £300 per month

ask them who's spunking a trolley load of £108's down the Zambeezy every race ....

Wish I had a poon every time u typed that shat

In answer to the op,   No

Something has defo changed feels like so many well backed horses win and drifters always lose. That's why there is no market any more before 10 mins to off. People just waiting to see order flow. This to me indicates that the game is not fair any more

I couldn't of summed it up better! You only know the true market 1 min before the off, IMO!

Horses get backed in and drift for so many different reasons. I could list 20. But it's almost like now, if your horse starts at 5/4 30 mins before the off and goes off 7/4 it Won't run to the pervious odds chance suggested. I still believe horse racing has a huge integrity problem.

Working out the "not today puzzle" with FAVS in particular is a skill in itself.

regards odds chamberlain is bedwetting either way if horse moves from ev,s to 11 to 8,or 11 to 8 to EV,s in a 16 hr period,in the old days of boardmarker it was no bigger if the marker missed a  11 to 8 shot moving to 5 to 4 and most of  behind counter would give you what you asked for even if it had changed now chamberlain uses it to gauge in his opinion massive drifts and gambles

This is how it used to be on here

2008 Mickey Mouse Maiden at a Mickey Mouse Irish Racecourse Navan

Suspended just before being turned in-play 300K matched

Using an inflation calculator I discover 300K back then is worth 473K in 2024

1st race at Newcastle 17/09/2024 as winner crosses line

as BF why when it takes a bet 1 sec to process the money in the pink vanishes instantly when i click?

The article is at least 10 years late. Where have the racing journalist(s) been? The Exchange is dying, just like horseracing in the UK. There are too many non-horseracing wannabe "bookies" - old and new - promoting fobt over horseracing.

as previously stated..tecknollodgee has now evolved to run the ship..

gps is ahead of the pictures..
if your happy to win fivers play last 2/3f.
if you want to win more play 1st 2/3rds of the race.
caveat emptor innit.

Betfair has managed to sucked the joy out of even the most loyal horses racing fans, with its everyone's a winner on here mantra,1000,s who once loved the racing win or lose went on Betfair and either then expected or demanded to be a winning punter,to such an exten to 1000,s the result/winner is only a small part of the winning equation

same as the popular overs/unders bet with punters not in the slightest bit interested in who,s scoring or not scoring the goals

4  v  4 been the same as 8 nil to them

pre event bf is still better odds..if you're knott paying PC.

Online bookies are like drug dealers and thieves. They will suck the last drop of blood off you, if given the chance; online bookies, thieves and drug dealers have no conscience or soul within them.

glue the locks.

Not as much money as they was when i first started normal was 500k + on a race now your lucky if it hits 150k a race , football and cricket where the money is .

"Not as much money..."
Indeed. The liquidity and turnover have diminished alarmingly. This is because "bookies" (even on-course) are using The Exchange to manage their books; non-bet taking/selective bookies ie bookie traders betting against their competitors/counterparts.

If the volume of business is low, the liquidity will be low too = an impending demise of horseracing eventually.

don't be fooled by football and cricket volumes, a high percentage is trades, whereas horse racing is less so.

The Exchange is covering cricket from India and even football from Malaysia. This could be their salvation if horseracing UK is down the swanny.

I imagine volumes in these sports are being driven heavily by the Asian market.

well a certain lady in stoke isn't making billions from UK based  betting that's for sure

horse racing makes up 2% of Flutter's business. If that is worldwide horse racing, it tells you how important UK horse racing now is. They don't make bundles a race in commission and the PC payers are getting less in number for obvious reasons.

Can The Exchange be accessed by bettors from India, Malaysia, Japan, Singapore or China? If so, no doubt funny events eg a match is abandoned or results are ****, etc,. Even floodlights could unexpectedly stop working to facilitate a win bet; a predict the score materialises for half-time eg 2-0, courtesy of a howler from the keeper.

Yes there are several white label exchanges available in other countries that feed into the Betfair markets.

20 million traded on a indian ladies cricket match end up with 1 person winning $78.

barely enough for a curry.

goat curry cheap in Nagpur.

'jamee1', thanks for the info. I do not fully understand what a white label exchange is.  Is it a conduit into The Exchange at betfair?

Sep 20, 2024 -- 7:47AM, impossible123 wrote:

'jamee1', thanks for the info. I do not fully understand what a white label exchange is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhFcflAcWBA

jamee1 do you know anyone that uses them from the UK? VPN required, any idea of the delay on bet placement etc(assuming too slow for in-running!), big appeal is no PC for pre-off bets.

use daq surely?

Sep 20, 2024 -- 12:43PM, swiftynifty wrote:

jamee1 do you know anyone that uses them from the UK? VPN required, any idea of the delay on bet placement etc(assuming too slow for in-running!), big appeal is no PC for pre-off bets.

Not aware of anyone from the UK using them. It's certainly not officially available for users based in the UK. I don't think they cover UK horse racing at all.