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The reason most of us prefer the jumps is we know a horse will be trying at Cheltenham in March and we are in it with connections hoping for the best.
Does O’Brien using the 2000 Guineas as a race to wind up his horses and give no inkling of that to the public even though the horse might be a strong favourite for the race bring racing into disrepute?
He can do what he wants blah blah yes he can but so can the punter i find the flat garbage now compared to the jumps as a betting medium so what is the answer to my question in the title? Personally i couldn’t give a feck if these connections never win a other race.
Does O’Brien using the 2000 Guineas as a race to wind up his horses and give no inkling of that to the public even though the horse might be a strong favourite for the race bring racing into disrepute?
He can do what he wants blah blah yes he can but so can the punter i find the flat garbage now compared to the jumps as a betting medium so what is the answer to my question in the title? Personally i couldn’t give a feck if these connections never win a other race.
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Before anyone claims he is a genius, if i had a gun with one bullet to fire and hit a target while he had multiple and of the very best quality ammo available then he aint no genius if he hits the target more often than me.
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Of course he's good for racing , the higher the bar is set the better standard all round when it forces the also rans to up their game , as applies in any sport.
He didn't use the Guineas as a wind up in my view , i'd rather believe what the gentleman tells me. As it goes i always have and always will much prefer jump racing but before the next inevitable question is asked , yes Willie Mullins is good for racing for exactly the same reasons. Best of luck today  |
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he's good for coolmore
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Good luck.
Mullins imo would give the public more idea of a horses state for a huge race and it would not be favourite as a result. Also Mullins has a lot more respect for the public and the event than to use a championship race to prepare a horse for Aintree. I have little respect for the O’Brien outfit by comparison i think they keep unprepared horses fav for classics by saying nothing due to stud values (was fav for the Guineas) to the massive cost of punters not just on the Guineas but also on the Derby. Gentlemen my @rse. |
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It all about opinions Eric and don't think anyone else cares much what either of us think as they'll all have their own views but as with jockey rides it's all too subjective with no agreed conclusion.
All that said i'd agree it's what forums are all about |
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ive said it now for a good few years, imo coolmore has spoilt horseracing and mullins doing exactly the same, its destroyed racing in general but it has definetly spoiled the horse racing i loved.
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Has been employing various races as a warm up for other more important races for years,so he keeps u guessing.
Coolmore have an American branch,where Justify stands so AOB must be happy that COT won yesterday. |
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Not in the same league as Vincent O'brien or Henry Cecil
They didnt run half the field to win a classic He has got to keep the so called lads happy Its all about breeding these days |
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The horse went off 4/6 for the guineas which tells me he was expected to win.
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All the layers of City of Troy are still weeping yet. You layed it, your opinion was rubbish and you done your conkers. Get over it. That`s racing. Horses aren`t machines.
Aiden O`Brien is a genius and will go down in Turf history as the greatest trainer ever. His records (and there are a lot more to come) will never be surpassed. |
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It did not surprise me one bit when it got stuffed in the Guineas or when it won yesterday.
He said after the race at Newmarket that the horse must have been unfit and he should have pushed it harder. Maybe that is true. Maybe also, he is a top trainer and should know how to get a horse racing fit. Hard to know what to make it. |
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With the Stallion career in mind it might be better to say that the horse wasn't fit rather than to say that the horse was simply taken off of his feet and with the benefit of the hindsight of yesterday just needs further than a mile.
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Never be another one ,i worship at his feet i suggest you do the same.
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Would it be different if we adopted the overseas approach, if owner or trainer has multiple runners in the same race then they get coupled for betting purposes.
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I'd detest that Eric and be totally against it as someone who only backs double digits so looks for 2nd , 3rd and even 4th strings at times.
Proportioning the stake is easy for those who wish to bet connections full cover. |
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I agree with Hayden.
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Really, its not a good look for the derby when two AOB horses who flopped in the Guineas have won the last two editions.
Personally I have no idea how good City Of Troy is. Auguste Rodin couldnt win a King George, won a Breeders Cup but was nowhere in Dubai where all the Japenese horses show up. I do wonder what would have happened on the Downs had both the Godolphin trial winners showed up. Plus there is that freak that Haggas has that won the Dante: Economics. When you look at COT in that context, I do wonder if he is all that. As Ms Cumani pointed out he is not very big. He goes up against that Haggas horse any time soon it will be like watching Wayne Rooney up against the under 18s to my mind. In the long run I am not certain how rosy things are for Coolmore. Galileo is no more after all and the next in line from the Northern Dancer conveyor belt is in Juddmontes hands. Namely Frankel. Aidan has won 10 Derbys but I dont know how long that can go on now that they dont have the dominant sire in middle distances pumping out contenders year on year. They have won two pretty p1ss weak derbys with Ryan riding for luck held up out the back. The Hef has gone. Colm O'Donoghue went years ago so its all about mr Moore these days. Couple of years back Frankie & Johnny G were riding Ryan & Coolmore to sleep so its not like they are unbeatable. Coolmore is obviously a very strong operation but they may not get it all their own way in the future. Hopefully |
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What i would say is it is nobody’s fault if they are too strong and dominate a sport. However there is plenty wrong about not being open about huge races and your horses fitness levels when favourite for those races. It is cheating punters out of money creating bad will and harming the future of the sport so a handful of multimillionaires can make a few more million on stud fees.
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I don't know COT's height, but wasn't Mill Reef on the small side standing at 15.4 Hands.
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yes kevo. Don't think COT was quite quick enough for the guineas even if fully tuned. Plenty of really good ones weren't Mill Reef Grundy Generous and Shergar was aimed at further without trying.
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If Coolmore weren't breeding mile and a half horses...hardly anyone else is...the Derby may have gone down the French route by now
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howard, Mill Reef did try but came up against The Brigadier.
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AOB is a genius and all his family are thoroughbred people through and through. As Isleham says he has maintained the Derby as the no1 race while the Arabs have tried to promote milers. If OP finds the flat garbage not sure why you are bothering starting a thread about it. The jumps is just an elitist load of rubbish these days imo.
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Gredleys attitude of not taking them on also has a part to play as well....
If everyone ran their best horses in the good races, then Coolmore might have to do a bit more work to earn their corn. Similar goes for the national hunt... no point in complaining that Mullins wins all the Grade 1's if no english trainer runs anything in it to try and beat him. |
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to his credit he often keeps a good one in training after 3 - more so than the other big breeding outfits
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Cartel...gravy trainers ..should be broken up and regulated like the industry in Oz imv..all in house now..
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Must be hard with all the bluebloods and having all the best of the best... must be tough producing a top product when your product is light years ahead of the rest due to the monopoly behind it... the whole industry is to keep the most powerful.in power like everything else...tbf he does do his job well bar not bothering to train fto horses and get them fit om course of course..
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A Gang of Billionaires with a fantastic Hobby , Listen , the Lads play the Game
I feel sorry for anyone who had AP prices COT for the Guineas , MUGGED basically ,But had they pulled it Monies gone anyway was really looking forward to it running in the Guineas Looked the Real Deal After the Derby I could nee give a flying what it wins Horses getting beat half the Track then coming out next Run and winning the Derby , Is taking the rank pish IMO |
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AOB isn't winning multiple Classics with the progeny of No Nay Never, War Front or Starspangledbanner, so he's needed the right stallions such as Sadler's Wells, Danehill and Galileo to achieve what he has, so the genius of John Magnier shouldn't be underestimated when it comes to pedigrees.
EG Buying Danehill for 4 million from Juddmonte, how much profit did they make on that?  |
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OP is correct you would expect a Horse to be Spot on when running in a classic , If not why Run the Horse ?
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Case it was the bangin oan the heed cumin oot the stalls whit dun him in The Guineas.
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Trained his first winner 31 years ago today
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