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That National was the end . Well over 12 horses in contention 3 out .
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Everybody else invades England or takes us for a ride, the Irish might as well dip their bread as well.
Everything's up for grabs on Treasure Island
We must have the worse politicians and organisers in the world.
Everything's up for grabs on Treasure Island
We must have the worse politicians and organisers in the world.
It was an exciting race for me because everyone I was watching with still had at least one of there bets in with a chance of at least a place a couple of furlongs out.
It would be more of a test though these days if it was run over the normal fences. A horse can jump through the top half of these fences and the worst that will happen is an unseat.
It will only be another few years before we get a freak accident and more changes are made to appease the once a year activists.
It would be more of a test though these days if it was run over the normal fences. A horse can jump through the top half of these fences and the worst that will happen is an unseat.
It will only be another few years before we get a freak accident and more changes are made to appease the once a year activists.
The race is not what is was we all agree on that and changes had to be made to satisfy the ever growing metroplolitan populations, but a great many of them will never be satisfied until NH racing is gone forever.
My opinion now is why have the race at all, is it worth all the negative pre race debates and misinformation that happens every year on all the news channels and morning discussion shows, to me its a once a year gift to the anti mob no matter how safe the race is.
My opinion now is why have the race at all, is it worth all the negative pre race debates and misinformation that happens every year on all the news channels and morning discussion shows, to me its a once a year gift to the anti mob no matter how safe the race is.
Lots of people complaining, but not many solutions being offered.
Cannot turn back the clocks and make the fences bigger, wider, stiffer.
And most people couldn't give a fig about the quality of the race... once there is enough runners to make a sweepstake, and there are a couple principal runners with a "back story", they will go to the races, have a few drinks, nice meal out, couple of bets and have a good day out.
Cannot turn back the clocks and make the fences bigger, wider, stiffer.
And most people couldn't give a fig about the quality of the race... once there is enough runners to make a sweepstake, and there are a couple principal runners with a "back story", they will go to the races, have a few drinks, nice meal out, couple of bets and have a good day out.
Willie Mullins wants to sent him / her / it / ze / zem to Justify for a mating.
Lots of people complaining, but not many solutions being offered.
The solution is either make a decision that this is the race and we aren't going to change it every year based whether there is negative media coverage or a bunch of purple haired vegans trying to glue themselves to the fences or just get rid of it.
The solution is either make a decision that this is the race and we aren't going to change it every year based whether there is negative media coverage or a bunch of purple haired vegans trying to glue themselves to the fences or just get rid of it.
Well said Hayden.
The race has changed and I do not see anything wrong with that.
Cracking race yesterday and hopefully it will attract more people to the game.
The race has changed and I do not see anything wrong with that.
Cracking race yesterday and hopefully it will attract more people to the game.
Anyone any idea what takes over as the world's greatest sporting spectacle? It used to be 1. The 5 Nations 2. The Grand National 3. The rest. But now since professionalism in rugby (along its incessant boring rucking, uncontested scrums and lineouts) and the total collapse of the GN I don't know what is left. The BHA needs to get itself together and stand up to the "Don't even slightly hurt a horse" brigade.
The question they should asked was how did we have 6 years no deaths then 5 runnings 5 deaths. Spraed that out as 5 deaths over 11 years then it does not seem so bad. Obviously none of us want to see any deaths.
Any backslapping about how safe it has been made could have been different if Coracvh Rambler's 2nd fence fall had been fatal. In short we got away with it yesterday and there will be more deaths as you cannot avoid it.
Any backslapping about how safe it has been made could have been different if Coracvh Rambler's 2nd fence fall had been fatal. In short we got away with it yesterday and there will be more deaths as you cannot avoid it.
What ever happened to 'snowflakes' and 'virtue signalling'. Some ridiculous statements from the wokeflakes.
cacique,
You have said that people are not offering suggestions, but you then answer that question in the next sentence.
People have consistently stated that to them it's nothing like it used to be. You have said that the clocks cannot be turned back so what options are there to make? These people are not going suggest making the fences even smaller.
You have said that people are not offering suggestions, but you then answer that question in the next sentence.
People have consistently stated that to them it's nothing like it used to be. You have said that the clocks cannot be turned back so what options are there to make? These people are not going suggest making the fences even smaller.
@DD
I want the fences to be bigger, wider stiffer, with a bigger drop on the landing side at beechers.
But this is not a possibility so we are stuck with it.
We should be looking at making suggestions to improve the spectacle, make it a special race again.
I don't have an imagination, or a PR brain, but i'm sure other people on this forum do.
I want the fences to be bigger, wider stiffer, with a bigger drop on the landing side at beechers.
But this is not a possibility so we are stuck with it.
We should be looking at making suggestions to improve the spectacle, make it a special race again.
I don't have an imagination, or a PR brain, but i'm sure other people on this forum do.
Why was yesterday's rave not a good spectacle?
Lots of horses in with a chance coming to the last fence. What was not to like?
Lots of horses in with a chance coming to the last fence. What was not to like?
I don't know how you define a good spectacle, but mine isn't seeing a load of average jumpers just negotiating fences and effectively having a burn-up over the last two. As I said elsewhere the greatest National ever was a two-horse duel between Crisp and Red Rum. If all 32 runners had been in contention it would been light years away from that spectacle.
could Rico get any dumber..from his latest comment it seems the answer is yes
Be interesting to see what the general public think that maybe only bet once a year, as mentioned there seemed to be lots of horses in contention at the finish which might make it more entertaining as more people thought they still had a chance.
It's defo changed so much over the last few years. There was a time maybe even 10 years ago people wouldn't risk the best horses as negotiating the course safely was that risky.
To be fair with all the press with that regard there's not much that can be done as they are in between a rock and a hard place.
It's defo changed so much over the last few years. There was a time maybe even 10 years ago people wouldn't risk the best horses as negotiating the course safely was that risky.
To be fair with all the press with that regard there's not much that can be done as they are in between a rock and a hard place.
The woke agenda is to stop horse racing completely and the sort of carnage we saw 20 years ago would get it banned in a month. By making it safer, it has a small chance of surviving another 10 years. How many of those who want to see fallers at nearly every fence and a couple of dead horses feel that Formula 1 is no fun to watch as no drivers have been killed recently? I find it boring but not because of the lack of dead drivers but because the result is usually known before they start the race. Why don't we have horses starting one at a time in the order of their SP and make sure the favourite wins?
The National was my favourite race in the calendar. It was my Christmas. Now it is finished as the race we knew. Take risk out of any sport and you take the guts out of it. If you start to eliminate risk you're going down a dangerous path. God knows what the next modifications will bring.
So allow rugby players and footballers to break each others necks and limbs when they feel like it, Take all of the safety features from F1 cars etc etc. Or do you mean risk to the horses only? I would love to see 32 horses still in with a chance at the second last. That is a proper handicap. The worst thing that can happen to a horse and rider (particularly one you have supported) is to be brought down or carried out by another faller.
Maybe introduce a race of electric scooters without helmet on public roads (cordoned-off), may I add. There are already many about on public roads but not under-rules.
I have heard from next Year they are renaming The Chair to The Pouffe !! 
The Grand National has changed for the better - and how anyone can moan about todays race is beyond me - Lee Mottershead , senior writer racing post .
So for around 180 years it was wrong ?
Lee also mentions his 'husband' in the script which is also something that would certainly not have been mentioned in the not too distant past . I personally think its great that homosexuals . lesbians , transgenders , pansexuals , third genders etcetc have been accepted in society and i for one dont see sexuality as a barrier but it is certainly proof of the times we are in .
We are in a totally different era than the one weve been used to and i just wonder in another 180 years will there have been a total ban on horseracing altogether , flat included ?
So for around 180 years it was wrong ?
Lee also mentions his 'husband' in the script which is also something that would certainly not have been mentioned in the not too distant past . I personally think its great that homosexuals . lesbians , transgenders , pansexuals , third genders etcetc have been accepted in society and i for one dont see sexuality as a barrier but it is certainly proof of the times we are in .
We are in a totally different era than the one weve been used to and i just wonder in another 180 years will there have been a total ban on horseracing altogether , flat included ?
Thinking back acey reckon Andy Pandy would have jumped the pouffe safely enough , i'm pocket talking obviously 
https://www.racingpost.com/news/the-front-runner/has-the-grand-national-been-turned-into-another-cross-country-race-aHyrc3z5AWGj/
I am no fan of Cook, in fact I would describe him as massively overrated. This looks to be an example of why. He seems to be trying to be critical - in the same way as many on here - but sit on the fence at the same time.
I am no fan of Cook, in fact I would describe him as massively overrated. This looks to be an example of why. He seems to be trying to be critical - in the same way as many on here - but sit on the fence at the same time.
Aye but rigor mortis would have set in before the Elbow Hayden.
Bechers would have been a doddle for him this time around , thinking back though he'd have spoilt the Red Rum archive a tad so falling was probably decided by the gods.
It was like watching a royal rumble, where nobody gets thrown out of the ring.
I sort of understand why they made the changes, and I accept that there can now never be any going back. But the old National was much better, the fences were daunting to look at, let alone have to jump. It used to be about being last man standing, avoid the chaos and carnage on the first circuit, then try and ride your race from there. The field gradually thinning out, before the handful left standing and in contention get to fight it out.
Maybe Saturdays was just a one off, and the excitement and chaos will return in future nationals, but that just looked like an exhibition race to me. It reminded me more of the virtual grand National than an actual one.
I sort of understand why they made the changes, and I accept that there can now never be any going back. But the old National was much better, the fences were daunting to look at, let alone have to jump. It used to be about being last man standing, avoid the chaos and carnage on the first circuit, then try and ride your race from there. The field gradually thinning out, before the handful left standing and in contention get to fight it out.
Maybe Saturdays was just a one off, and the excitement and chaos will return in future nationals, but that just looked like an exhibition race to me. It reminded me more of the virtual grand National than an actual one.
This is one of those paradox enigma mystery thingies because the National as it was and should still be cannot exist in the modern world, so to save it from the ignominy that the sight of it now is to those of us that know what it should be it should now be put out of its misery a sort of mercy killing.
However we can't do that because it has to remain as a beacon to the modern world to show the man that we are listening, and to actually put it out to grass would only serve to give the anti mob the chance to jump all over it proclaiming that we've seen the error of our ways.
So on we'll go, once a year we will roll out the sacrificial lamb and present it to the masses.
However we can't do that because it has to remain as a beacon to the modern world to show the man that we are listening, and to actually put it out to grass would only serve to give the anti mob the chance to jump all over it proclaiming that we've seen the error of our ways.
So on we'll go, once a year we will roll out the sacrificial lamb and present it to the masses.
Once a year is enough. Anymore it could bring the game into disrepute or liable a "fraud" with all the pumping by bookies' stooges on tv and racing papers and channels.
Doubt there will be any NH racing in this country in about 20 years time.
The virtual grand national is a good way of describing the spectacle.
It will never go back now, with the 34 runners and changes to the fences, the genie isn't going back in the bottle.
It will never go back now, with the 34 runners and changes to the fences, the genie isn't going back in the bottle.
But it is surely still far more of a spectacle than the sort of racing we are presented with on every other day of the year? Fences omitted because of unsafe ground, low sun, damaged fences etc. etc. At least they had to jump all of the fences on Saturday!
If people want a true test,the greatest test,why not make the national 7 miles,and fences 12ft.and let 5f sprinters run in it if their connections want to.
Someone has to set the rules,conditions,these are set from the real world.
Footy has no tackling from behind,no leaving the ground studs showing etc,formula one has roll bars,etc.
How hard a test do people want,horses dropping dead ain’t a good look,formula 1 drivers,football players earn millions and accept the risk,horses don’t,reckless owners,trainers chance their arm with 2milers just to be on tv.
Someone has to stop them,horses will die on the flat,in yards,over jumps,but why when racing has its biggest audience increase the risk ,just for the sake of making it hard.
Someone has to set the rules,conditions,these are set from the real world.
Footy has no tackling from behind,no leaving the ground studs showing etc,formula one has roll bars,etc.
How hard a test do people want,horses dropping dead ain’t a good look,formula 1 drivers,football players earn millions and accept the risk,horses don’t,reckless owners,trainers chance their arm with 2milers just to be on tv.
Someone has to stop them,horses will die on the flat,in yards,over jumps,but why when racing has its biggest audience increase the risk ,just for the sake of making it hard.
I do not think anyone is suggesting the fences need to be more difficult and taxing to jump and negotiate similar to those in the past. Instead the present day fences are easier and less taxing than in the past. It's also generally accepted the fences are in line with the sign of the time.
The Grand National has changed, and is no longer the same race since the fences were tweaked. As such, it cannot justifiably be compared and treated as the Grand National of old or before the fences were tweaked.
The present Grand National is more predictable especially so when certain trainers and owners field mega runners. Similarly, a reduction in the number of runners is also a factor, justifiably, may I add.
The Grand National has changed, and is no longer the same race since the fences were tweaked. As such, it cannot justifiably be compared and treated as the Grand National of old or before the fences were tweaked.
The present Grand National is more predictable especially so when certain trainers and owners field mega runners. Similarly, a reduction in the number of runners is also a factor, justifiably, may I add.
Yeah agree,but stiff hard fences like old,clearly will lead to hard falls.
Airbags in cars are new,should we stop them.
It’s evolution.
Muddy pitches in footy leads to players injured,now it’s perfect grass.cant see the problem.
The once a year crowd are shocked when they see a horse topple over,then screens errected.
Racing can’t say,we love horses and care is our top prioty.then allow dangerous conditions.the 2 positions don’t add up
Airbags in cars are new,should we stop them.
It’s evolution.
Muddy pitches in footy leads to players injured,now it’s perfect grass.cant see the problem.
The once a year crowd are shocked when they see a horse topple over,then screens errected.
Racing can’t say,we love horses and care is our top prioty.then allow dangerous conditions.the 2 positions don’t add up
The once a year crowd made AP McCoy sports personality of the year on the back of his 2010 win. 3 horses died in that race too. I think people are making the mistake of confusing the ‘once a year crowd’, with the ‘never going to watch it whatever you do crowd’.
And what happens when another horse does die in the National. Do they have another knee jerk reaction and reduce the field and fences even further? It seems odd that the National in its old form has now become unacceptable, in the space of just a few years. Sign of the times I suppose.
And what happens when another horse does die in the National. Do they have another knee jerk reaction and reduce the field and fences even further? It seems odd that the National in its old form has now become unacceptable, in the space of just a few years. Sign of the times I suppose.
I understand ,defend it stance,you can’t please everyone etc.
I don’t know the stats,but as long as the national is in line with the all racing average deaths,that’s ok,and defendable.
Racing needs to get to a position,where it’s happy with it,and happy to defend it,it needs strong evidence to throw back at the cruel sport accusers.
But saying,it’s the ultimate hardest test,so deaths will happen,is akin to saying ben hur knew the risks,it’s a chariot race.
I don’t know the stats,but as long as the national is in line with the all racing average deaths,that’s ok,and defendable.
Racing needs to get to a position,where it’s happy with it,and happy to defend it,it needs strong evidence to throw back at the cruel sport accusers.
But saying,it’s the ultimate hardest test,so deaths will happen,is akin to saying ben hur knew the risks,it’s a chariot race.
Equating horse racing with football and motor racing is missing the point. You can decide if you want to take part in those sports. Horses don't have that choice. As an aside I have always found motor racing a total bore, and I quite liked football on muddy pitches when tackling was still part of the game. Still had your skilful players in those days. Plenty of them.
Back to the subject. What about horses dying elsewhere? Is that okay because not so many people are watching? Those cheering on the changes are you happy to see a number of horses dying elsewhere? You know it will happen whatever changes are made. That's the reality of the situation.
Back to the subject. What about horses dying elsewhere? Is that okay because not so many people are watching? Those cheering on the changes are you happy to see a number of horses dying elsewhere? You know it will happen whatever changes are made. That's the reality of the situation.
Great post,but can’t decide wether your for it or against it,safer national.
The formula 1,muddy pitches ,was just an example how every sport tries to eliminate injury,death.
You say plenty of skill full players back in the day,but what if chopper Harris broke messi s leg when he was 22 years old.
Horses will die,and in the national.its not about eliminating this,it’s about making the numbers acceptable.
The,we ve done all we can defence.
The formula 1,muddy pitches ,was just an example how every sport tries to eliminate injury,death.
You say plenty of skill full players back in the day,but what if chopper Harris broke messi s leg when he was 22 years old.
Horses will die,and in the national.its not about eliminating this,it’s about making the numbers acceptable.
The,we ve done all we can defence.
Horses will die,and in the national.its not about eliminating this,it’s about making the numbers acceptable.
The,we ve done all we can defence.
Who to??
That's the mistake, it will never be acceptable to the extremists, we are trying to placate those that can't be placated, we are paying ransom demands to those that will never stop asking.
Racing has naively entered into this, as soon as there's another death it's no good saying "Hang on, we thought we had a deal" when they are back at the door with their cap out.
The,we ve done all we can defence.
Who to??
That's the mistake, it will never be acceptable to the extremists, we are trying to placate those that can't be placated, we are paying ransom demands to those that will never stop asking.
Racing has naively entered into this, as soon as there's another death it's no good saying "Hang on, we thought we had a deal" when they are back at the door with their cap out.
And when that happens racing has shown that it is not strong enough to draw a line in the sand, it will once again crumble and chop a bit more off here and there.
Nobody in their right mind watches horse racing to see horses dying, but if you enjoy the sport, you have to accept that will happen. I think a runner has just been lost in the bumper at Kelso.
As regards the National as I said earlier it has gone from one extreme to another. My view is the current balance is wrong, but it won't be changed - see Duffy's post above.
Those who racing is primarily targeting won't be happy unless there are no fatalities year after year, and that's impossible to promise.
As regards the National as I said earlier it has gone from one extreme to another. My view is the current balance is wrong, but it won't be changed - see Duffy's post above.
Those who racing is primarily targeting won't be happy unless there are no fatalities year after year, and that's impossible to promise.
Duffy,accept no placating the extremists,it’s the family viewing crowd,the next generation,who are all more animal friendly.
Bullying in schools is clamped down on,no winners on sports day,this generation live in a less brutal world,everyone is a bit more caring,which is good.
Fox hunting banned etc,clubbing seals.
And like I said previous,racing can’t say with one breadth,we care for horses,then run them in a race they defo know 3/4 will die,every year.
The odd death every other year is fine,but knowing for certain some will die is too extreme.
Bullying in schools is clamped down on,no winners on sports day,this generation live in a less brutal world,everyone is a bit more caring,which is good.
Fox hunting banned etc,clubbing seals.
And like I said previous,racing can’t say with one breadth,we care for horses,then run them in a race they defo know 3/4 will die,every year.
The odd death every other year is fine,but knowing for certain some will die is too extreme.
Attitudes change to all sorts of things. For my generation and many others before Smoking was a normal habit for the vast majority but now is frowned upon in the same way as illegal drugs. The treatment of animals is now a matter of concern for many people now and changes will come about inevitably.
What I would like to know is how Duffy and DD would justify no changes/turning the clock back, not just to the anti's but to a huge majority that far outnumbers racing us racing fans?
Duffy can answer for himself, but I have not once said there should never have been no changes, and we have both said it would now be impossible to revert. You could have got that answer from previous replies.
I used to watch show jumping, and one their showcase events was the puissance. Those fences got very high, and the incentive was there to go higher to actually win the competition. Nobody stepped in to say you couldn't do that. Has that event now been outlawed, or is it fine because it isn't on mainstream television?
I used to watch show jumping, and one their showcase events was the puissance. Those fences got very high, and the incentive was there to go higher to actually win the competition. Nobody stepped in to say you couldn't do that. Has that event now been outlawed, or is it fine because it isn't on mainstream television?
DD you applaud Duffy and state that the GN has gone from one extreme to another, how so iyo?
Few if any have mentioned the stiffer qualification rules resulting in fewer poor jumpers or chancers running no hopers just for the "glory" of having a runner, the fences have not been altered a huge amount. The quality of the runners has improved markedly and Saturday was probably a reflection of that as opposed to fence alterations.
That apart my question is how would you justify yourviews in agreeing with Duffy?
Few if any have mentioned the stiffer qualification rules resulting in fewer poor jumpers or chancers running no hopers just for the "glory" of having a runner, the fences have not been altered a huge amount. The quality of the runners has improved markedly and Saturday was probably a reflection of that as opposed to fence alterations.
That apart my question is how would you justify yourviews in agreeing with Duffy?
Has there ever been a grand national. No horse fell
I am not going enter a long discussion - take that as a win if you want to. The answers to your questions are obvious.
It's total nonsense to suggest the 'fences have not been altered a huge amount'. If you believe that it's not worth debating. You are joking about the field quality? Plenty including the top weight out of form, the second in won the Welsh Grand National off 145 on extremely testing ground, and simply won't be winning off his current mark. It was a rag bag collection.
It's total nonsense to suggest the 'fences have not been altered a huge amount'. If you believe that it's not worth debating. You are joking about the field quality? Plenty including the top weight out of form, the second in won the Welsh Grand National off 145 on extremely testing ground, and simply won't be winning off his current mark. It was a rag bag collection.
Fences looked a lot different to me. I admit I didn’t notice it in real time, was too busy looking for the horses I’d backed. But watching the replay, then watching some replays of old nationals, it’s clear that the fences are much easier, more akin to some of those they take in the X country races.
They have made quite drastic changes imo. Don’t see why they had to reduce from 40 runners either. Lots of people seem to prefer it, and those in charge are all busy slapping backs and congratulating each other on fixing the National. But they’ve painted themselves into a corner now. If the race is only deemed a success when there are no fatalities, as was the case this year, then they are in big trouble when one does inevitably arise. Not really got anywhere to go after this.
They have made quite drastic changes imo. Don’t see why they had to reduce from 40 runners either. Lots of people seem to prefer it, and those in charge are all busy slapping backs and congratulating each other on fixing the National. But they’ve painted themselves into a corner now. If the race is only deemed a success when there are no fatalities, as was the case this year, then they are in big trouble when one does inevitably arise. Not really got anywhere to go after this.
Not looking for a debate DD, simply asked how you and Duffy would justify your views to a much wider audience as I cannot see anything the BHA or anyone else could use to pacify a majority who's views are probably more important to the future of the race.
Btw you must have watched a different race to the majority or else just showing how little you know about the game!!
Btw you must have watched a different race to the majority or else just showing how little you know about the game!!
Just one (hopefully) last comment.
If you make changes and say this is safe only to make more changes you leave yourself open to total ridicule. A stance has to be taken where you satisfied with the position, and not constantly reacting to critics who will never be happy.
If you make changes and say this is safe only to make more changes you leave yourself open to total ridicule. A stance has to be taken where you satisfied with the position, and not constantly reacting to critics who will never be happy.
Some of the fences on main track at Autueil are massive and you get some horrific looking falls but i dont know if there is the same outcry in France about their NH racing but i suppose they as a nation are more agricultaral than ours.
Only happens in the UK Crop the W@nkers of the world Protesting against all sorts ,All acceptable in the Liberal UK
In France one of their delicacies is horsemeat. Anyone into that?
It is not viewed as a delicacy impossible, same as at home it is mainstream albeit a tad more expensive than beef, much healthier btw.
I love jump racing and grew up watching races at Towcester, the toughest test possible for an NH horse, but I would be amazed if NH racing was still going by say 2050. If you follow jump racing, you have to accept that it is dangerous and to some degree cruel as I do. The majority of sports, leisure pursuits, and industries, that involve animals, clearly are. There is far more focus on this issue now and the scrutiny is only going to get more intense.
Racing got the Grand National it needed on Saturday, according to Ed Chamberlin, who refused to be downbeat despite 1.4 million fewer people tuning in to ITV for Aintree's big race compared to the previous year.
Chamberlin led the ITV Racing team across the three-day meeting and said the fall from 7.5m viewers to 6.1m for the National was predictable after the race was run an hour and a quarter earlier at 4pm on Saturday.
Chamberlin led the ITV Racing team across the three-day meeting and said the fall from 7.5m viewers to 6.1m for the National was predictable after the race was run an hour and a quarter earlier at 4pm on Saturday.
No Horses were killed so i would call that a very very good result for the Race.
The 3 races over the Fences all were safe and sound ,No one can knock that tbh
I remember Carnage in the Hunter Chase a few years back
I remember Carnage in the Hunter Chase a few years back
ITV News headlines
Two horses die at Grand National as animal charities call for end to racing
The changes will not stop them calling for the end of racing and the media word it such away that anyone just reading them would think it's in the GN.
Two horses die at Grand National as animal charities call for end to racing
The changes will not stop them calling for the end of racing and the media word it such away that anyone just reading them would think it's in the GN.
You can't expect anyone who is not a racing fan to distinguish between the GN and any of the other races on the card, or even at any other racecourse. The campaigners use the GN meeting to shout louder as they know it has the media's attention but the vast majority of the herd that is called the "public" would not notice the difference if the dead horse broke a leg in a 5 furlong sprint at Lingfield. There are animal rights movements in other countries but they don't get anything close to the publicity or support that they do here.
I agree with Sage. Using the number of fatalities to assess an events acceptability is flawed. Some 15 people have died in the London marathon - so ban it? An average of two riders die each year in the Isle of Man TT races. - so ban them ?
I'm not calling for the race to revert to what it was, my point is that because it can't be the test it once was it shouldn't even exist now, no-one likes horse deaths but we all still used to watch, look forward to and enjoy the race in its purest form.
In a perfect world racing would have seen the shift in the modern world coming and gotten rid of it before we got into the situation we find ourselves in now where the race is being mistakenly put up as a beacon of racing being able to listen to the crowd.
If you listen to many commentators post race you'll hear how it was a success and they seem to think that racing has reached that sweet spot, this is complete nonsense, horses didn't die, as soon as one does die again the whole thing will once again be front and centre and lets see if racing stands up and says to the masses, no more changes, that death was acceptable.
Racing thinks it's solved the problem and the National is now the evidence of this but in reality the national is a Trojan horse being used by the mob and will sooner or later be used once again as a means to beat the game about the head with.
In a perfect world racing would have seen the shift in the modern world coming and gotten rid of it before we got into the situation we find ourselves in now where the race is being mistakenly put up as a beacon of racing being able to listen to the crowd.
If you listen to many commentators post race you'll hear how it was a success and they seem to think that racing has reached that sweet spot, this is complete nonsense, horses didn't die, as soon as one does die again the whole thing will once again be front and centre and lets see if racing stands up and says to the masses, no more changes, that death was acceptable.
Racing thinks it's solved the problem and the National is now the evidence of this but in reality the national is a Trojan horse being used by the mob and will sooner or later be used once again as a means to beat the game about the head with.
I managed to back 4 winners of the present Grand National in the last 6 years. However, my last winner in the old Grand National was Red Marauder (lucky to acquire an unwanted bet slip) - a big gap. Prior were Rough Quest and Rhyme 'N' Reason - another significant gap.
Am I more astute, and lucky? Or is it easier to back the winner of the present Grand National? I Am Maximus (jfav), Corach Rambler (fav) and Tiger Roll (fancy/fav). I hope a proper horseracing journo is sufficiently brave and intelligent to call it The Cross-Country Grand National next year.
Am I more astute, and lucky? Or is it easier to back the winner of the present Grand National? I Am Maximus (jfav), Corach Rambler (fav) and Tiger Roll (fancy/fav). I hope a proper horseracing journo is sufficiently brave and intelligent to call it The Cross-Country Grand National next year.
Think the topic has fast become chip wrappings already impossible , everyone has a moan whilst topical but forget about it now until the same debate in 12 months time.
The 'Fake' Grand National
2 great letters in the Racing Post this week (surprised the woke RP actually ran them, but fair do's) - both pointing out how the race has been neutered to the point of death in terms of its raison d'être; a unique race with a jumping challenge unlike any other race in the calendar.
The 'fences' are now only around 4feet in height. Watching the race from the head-on camera gave the game away big time - 4ft of fence, cut straight across, then 2 or 3 feet of brush cuttings careful manicured and piled on top, to give the impression its actually a 'big' fence.
Hence the result, thirty odd horses simply bursting through the brush cuttings - no wonder there wasn't many fallers, a tetchy novice chaser could get around that course now given the stamina to last the 4.2miles
Those head-on shots were stark testimony to just how much jump racing custodians have kowtowed to the various animal rights minority groups and the woke agenda
The public wants an ultra-competitive race, with 66-1 shots just as likely to win as a 7-1 favourite. In reality, the race is now a glorified cross country race likely to be dominated each year by high class animals from the big battalions. Gradually the race will wither away on the vine
And don't for a minute think these protest groups will now pat the Jockey Club and BHA on the back and say 'well done' - Far from it, they sense weakness, they smell blood, and they will be relentless in coming back for even more 'improvements'
Their clear stated aim is to end ALL horse racing
Fitzgerald and all the other cronies spouting 'this is the race we wanted' are so far off mark its untrue.
Turkeys voting for Christmas, the lot of em.
2 great letters in the Racing Post this week (surprised the woke RP actually ran them, but fair do's) - both pointing out how the race has been neutered to the point of death in terms of its raison d'être; a unique race with a jumping challenge unlike any other race in the calendar.
The 'fences' are now only around 4feet in height. Watching the race from the head-on camera gave the game away big time - 4ft of fence, cut straight across, then 2 or 3 feet of brush cuttings careful manicured and piled on top, to give the impression its actually a 'big' fence.
Hence the result, thirty odd horses simply bursting through the brush cuttings - no wonder there wasn't many fallers, a tetchy novice chaser could get around that course now given the stamina to last the 4.2miles
Those head-on shots were stark testimony to just how much jump racing custodians have kowtowed to the various animal rights minority groups and the woke agenda
The public wants an ultra-competitive race, with 66-1 shots just as likely to win as a 7-1 favourite. In reality, the race is now a glorified cross country race likely to be dominated each year by high class animals from the big battalions. Gradually the race will wither away on the vine
And don't for a minute think these protest groups will now pat the Jockey Club and BHA on the back and say 'well done' - Far from it, they sense weakness, they smell blood, and they will be relentless in coming back for even more 'improvements'
Their clear stated aim is to end ALL horse racing
Fitzgerald and all the other cronies spouting 'this is the race we wanted' are so far off mark its untrue.
Turkeys voting for Christmas, the lot of em.
There are clearly 2 points of view on this so we can only take sides. I think that a National should be a spectacle where a big field have to negotiate 30 fences (and some of them like the Chair are almost as big as they ever were), at leasst 10 of them get to the third last with a realistic chance and then it becomes a test of speed and stamina. I did back Corach Rambler and I am Maximus. One fell at the first and the other won. You can't have a more extreme difference than that. The important thing for me was that one of mine was in contention (although I would not have taken 25/1 at the fourth last) and as it happens it won. Too often in the old days a pick of two horses might not get me past Bechers first time round so I turn over to football.
'sageform, that's the thing about the Grand National; backing a few and not getting a run beyond The Chair. And, if managing to back the winner is a mega bragging right one always remembers.
Notwithstanding, the prize money for winning is a cool £500k. What? For winning a glorified cross-country race? What a cheat!
Notwithstanding, the prize money for winning is a cool £500k. What? For winning a glorified cross-country race? What a cheat!
I still found it an exciting race and you guys have got to get real the safety of horse and jockey is paramount.And that True Test To Man And Horse bullsh1t you can stuff that.
'acey', that's not the point. The point is the Grand National of old is long gone after the repeated tweaking, managing and appeasing the animal right clan (mind you I'm all for that). However, some bookie stooges on tv and the bookies' paper still try to "sell" the present Grand National as the race of old when it's clearly not; these bookies' stooges are deliberately being disingenuous, and without self-respect.
Same here lady, the thought had sprung with me immediately too.
Nothing "Grand" about it now.
Nothing "Grand" about it now.
How anyone could find the race exciting is beyond me, it was pretty boring.
Good to see some articles this week that ring true with supporters on NH racing
Good to see some articles this week that ring true with supporters on NH racing
I doubt there is a more ardent NH supporter than myself but it's about time people realised that the changes made were not all to appease the antis which misses the common sense that has been used to keep the race viable. Too many look back with rose tinted specs and moan about modernity and change and the "Good Old Days"!!
Young boys sent up chimneys, rickets and scurvy eradicated as the world moved on etc but the GN stood still in terms of safety of horses and jockeys and would have been unsaleable if it had not changed. Not a mention from anyone I have seen about the revenue from worldwide sales of the race without which it probably would not have survived in its old form?
Last weeks race looked like a race, played out like a proper handicap and gave enough of a test of jumping and stamina to regard it as unique in NH, easy to sell to countries where NH is not a part of their racing scene. Compare it with Red Marauder and ask which version would sell in the modern world, even in the UK?
Some are saying the fences are much lower and could see the evidence on tv, really? Must have amazing vision to notice the one that were altered by a couple of inches, as for the spruce dressing, horses were always able to jump through the tops of the fences. When the issue of fences were being debated years ago I was one of the most vocal about lowering them, arguing that it may make them go quicker and cause more falls.
Saturday appeared to have proved me wrong or maybe it was simply better horses with better qualification criteria, whatever, it worked, maybe not to the satisfaction of the die hards who prefer a bit of carnage. The bottom line is that the moaners and refuseniks are not important to the future of the race, those that watched last week are the future and a much bigger majority, a simple fact.
Young boys sent up chimneys, rickets and scurvy eradicated as the world moved on etc but the GN stood still in terms of safety of horses and jockeys and would have been unsaleable if it had not changed. Not a mention from anyone I have seen about the revenue from worldwide sales of the race without which it probably would not have survived in its old form?
Last weeks race looked like a race, played out like a proper handicap and gave enough of a test of jumping and stamina to regard it as unique in NH, easy to sell to countries where NH is not a part of their racing scene. Compare it with Red Marauder and ask which version would sell in the modern world, even in the UK?
Some are saying the fences are much lower and could see the evidence on tv, really? Must have amazing vision to notice the one that were altered by a couple of inches, as for the spruce dressing, horses were always able to jump through the tops of the fences. When the issue of fences were being debated years ago I was one of the most vocal about lowering them, arguing that it may make them go quicker and cause more falls.
Saturday appeared to have proved me wrong or maybe it was simply better horses with better qualification criteria, whatever, it worked, maybe not to the satisfaction of the die hards who prefer a bit of carnage. The bottom line is that the moaners and refuseniks are not important to the future of the race, those that watched last week are the future and a much bigger majority, a simple fact.
It's rather odd to see everyone harking back to the past and the Grand National yet no one mentions the time when the race almost disappeared from view altogether.
From wikipedia..... These developments were not sufficient for financial stability at Aintree. The racing calendar declined from the 1950s and 60s so that by the early 1970s it consisted of a single three-day meeting each year that included the Grand National. In addition, the stands and facilities had become notably dilapidated. When the Earl of Sefton sold the Aintree Racecourse to Tophams Ltd in 1949, he put a restrictive covenant in place that the land could only be used for agriculture or horse-racing during his life. (He died in 1972.) In 1963, Mirabel Topham, as chairman, initiated negotiations with Lord Sefton to have this covenant put aside so that the land could be sold for housing development. Over the next nine years this led to court cases, possible sales and repeated assertions that each Grand National would be 'the last at Aintree'. Although the covenant was upheld by the lower courts, an appeal to the House of Lords ruled in Topham Ltd's favour in 1966. Aintree was finally sold to the Walton Group owned by property developer William Davies in 1973.However, planning permission for new housing was never granted. The land remained a racecourse where the Grand National continues to be held.
From wikipedia..... These developments were not sufficient for financial stability at Aintree. The racing calendar declined from the 1950s and 60s so that by the early 1970s it consisted of a single three-day meeting each year that included the Grand National. In addition, the stands and facilities had become notably dilapidated. When the Earl of Sefton sold the Aintree Racecourse to Tophams Ltd in 1949, he put a restrictive covenant in place that the land could only be used for agriculture or horse-racing during his life. (He died in 1972.) In 1963, Mirabel Topham, as chairman, initiated negotiations with Lord Sefton to have this covenant put aside so that the land could be sold for housing development. Over the next nine years this led to court cases, possible sales and repeated assertions that each Grand National would be 'the last at Aintree'. Although the covenant was upheld by the lower courts, an appeal to the House of Lords ruled in Topham Ltd's favour in 1966. Aintree was finally sold to the Walton Group owned by property developer William Davies in 1973.However, planning permission for new housing was never granted. The land remained a racecourse where the Grand National continues to be held.
The last sentence just sums you up. Always looking to knock everyone else, and put yourself on a pedestal. That's what you care about more than any race. The Grand National like any other topic just provides ammunition for you to try and do that. Must have taken some restraint to have only used moaning twice. You could have used commenting or criticising, but no that's not you. Ardent admirer of national hunt racing? Sorry, you are just an ardent admirer of yourself.
'Young boys sent up chimneys, rickets and scurvy'. What's that got to do with the prospect of the National becoming a total bore?
You made an incorrect comment about fence size, but rather than admit getting it wrong, you are now questioning people's eyesight?
You mention Red Marauder, a race run in terrible conditions. Perhaps if we compare Saturday's race with Crisp and Red Rum instead?
'Young boys sent up chimneys, rickets and scurvy'. What's that got to do with the prospect of the National becoming a total bore?
You made an incorrect comment about fence size, but rather than admit getting it wrong, you are now questioning people's eyesight?
You mention Red Marauder, a race run in terrible conditions. Perhaps if we compare Saturday's race with Crisp and Red Rum instead?
Get over yourself DD and at least provide some counter debate, if you are capable?
Get over yourself DD and at least provide some counter debate, if you are capable?
Exactly sparrow. It was almost gone as a racecourse at all, never mind the main race. Some people will never be happy or thankful for what we have. A bit like those pressure groups whose press releases get trotted out by every news outlet every day asking for more public money. Have you ever heard one say they are getting too much? The last 25 years will go down in history as the more more for me generation. Preferably from other peoples taxes.
Changing the conditions of the race has done nothing to appease the animal charities, they trotted the line out that the GN meeting had 2 deaths and they want racing stopped.
They won't be happy until the race is banned
They won't be happy until the race is banned
Of course the fanatics won't be happy, they never will be, but the point of the changes is to reduce the number of ordinary folk who support their point of view. If we reach a point where the majority of voters would like to see an end to horse racing it won't take long for it to go.
As you have said sage, the course was almost lost and had it been so there were suggestions of it being held elsewhere. Had that happened would we have had a similar debate about it no longer being the same race? Probably imo and more reason for not recognising it in its old form than the debate today, worse still it could have been lost completely.
Also a legacy of Big Mac in saving it and the course which rarely gets a mention.
Also a legacy of Big Mac in saving it and the course which rarely gets a mention.
Ladbrokes CEO saved it from my recollection. Big Mac might have been a mouthpiece but I doubt if he put the money in.
He was a big part in brokering the deals sage, as said rarely acknowledged.
From the Racing Post .....
John McCririck’s influential role in saving the Grand National was fondly recalled on Friday by Lord Vestey, who labelled the former journalist and Channel 4 racing presenter as a "true lover of racing".
Vestey and the Jockey Club had reached a difficult point in their negotiations to buy Aintree from Bill Davies, the controversial property tycoon who had put the racecourse up for sale in 1982, when McCririck stepped in to help arrange a meeting between the parties.
McCririck’s persuasiveness and passion for Aintree and the Grand National was hugely important in convincing Davies to sell to the Jockey Club, according to Vestey, keeping the course out of the hands of those eyeing it for development and ensuring the world’s most famous race was not lost.
“When the Jockey Club were trying to buy Aintree from Mr Davies we were having great difficulty getting hold of him,” said Vestey. “John knew Mr Davies and called me up and said, ‘Come on, let’s go see him’. It was John who got me in to see Mr Davies and we took it from there. Everyone at the Jockey Club was very grateful for what he did for us.
“John really helped persuade Mr Davies that it was the right thing to sell to us. We had been desperately worried the course might be sold to developers and we’d lose the Grand National for good. John was his usual bombastic self in the meeting saying how Mr Davies couldn’t do this and mustn’t do that! It helped him to sell to us, I’m certain of that.”
https://www.racingpost.com/news/obituaries/how-john-mccririck-helped-save-the-grand-national-a17Mp8o9JPRf/
John McCririck’s influential role in saving the Grand National was fondly recalled on Friday by Lord Vestey, who labelled the former journalist and Channel 4 racing presenter as a "true lover of racing".
Vestey and the Jockey Club had reached a difficult point in their negotiations to buy Aintree from Bill Davies, the controversial property tycoon who had put the racecourse up for sale in 1982, when McCririck stepped in to help arrange a meeting between the parties.
McCririck’s persuasiveness and passion for Aintree and the Grand National was hugely important in convincing Davies to sell to the Jockey Club, according to Vestey, keeping the course out of the hands of those eyeing it for development and ensuring the world’s most famous race was not lost.
“When the Jockey Club were trying to buy Aintree from Mr Davies we were having great difficulty getting hold of him,” said Vestey. “John knew Mr Davies and called me up and said, ‘Come on, let’s go see him’. It was John who got me in to see Mr Davies and we took it from there. Everyone at the Jockey Club was very grateful for what he did for us.
“John really helped persuade Mr Davies that it was the right thing to sell to us. We had been desperately worried the course might be sold to developers and we’d lose the Grand National for good. John was his usual bombastic self in the meeting saying how Mr Davies couldn’t do this and mustn’t do that! It helped him to sell to us, I’m certain of that.”
https://www.racingpost.com/news/obituaries/how-john-mccririck-helped-save-the-grand-national-a17Mp8o9JPRf/
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