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cacique
04 Feb 24 14:55
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Date Joined: 21 Oct 07
| Topic/replies: 1,203 | Blogger: cacique's blog
I can't see a point to it....

It is not a culmination to the end of the season.
Minimal runners taking their chances to showcase their talent..
Pause Switch to Standard View What is the point of the Dublin...
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Report MJK February 4, 2024 3:05 PM GMT
Could you not have asked the question on the DRF thread?
Report brandyontherocks February 4, 2024 3:10 PM GMT
It is not new.
The big races have always been there.
Report duffy February 4, 2024 3:24 PM GMT
The idea for the DRF came about because Mulins used to take his big festival hopes to Leopardstown every year for their pre festival workouts, they were even televised.

Someone obviously went one step further and thought that we could give these workouts actual race names, spread them out over a couple of days, invite other trainers to take part if they want and make out it was a racing festival. Grin
Report Smoky Hill February 4, 2024 3:30 PM GMT
lol.. all that's wrong with Irish racing. Jumps or Flat, just one trainer dominates.  Mrs John Magnier but get sick of seeing her name in the first 6 home in every flat gr. 1  and Mullins's owners must be staring at each other saying.. ''is this it?''..
Report EastLower Gooner February 4, 2024 3:36 PM GMT
I’m surprised they haven’t been asked to change the name as yet…the DRF / Daily Racing Form has been around for 127 years lol
Report chewy11 February 4, 2024 3:37 PM GMT
Last run before you stop medicating.
Report Hayden February 4, 2024 3:38 PM GMT
My brother takes the question a stage further when asking me what's the point of horse racing , each to their own i guess.
Report cacique February 4, 2024 3:38 PM GMT
Taking the "Champion Hurdle" or the Gold cup.... how many champion hurdles and gold cups do you need in a season? Are the ones at Punchestown not enough..

And is it really the case that no-one, absolutely no one, from UK or France want to run in them to try and win them?

Baffles me how there are 4/5 Grade one hurdles at 2 to 2 and a half miles and only ever have 5 or six horses running in them. The population of graded hurdlers is probably 20 or 30 across open and novice class.
Report Hayden February 4, 2024 3:46 PM GMT
You're talking about a sport that's on a downward spiral here cacique , before it disappears into oblivion there are a million more racing concerns to tackle before the need to look at unwanted festivals.
Report cacique February 4, 2024 3:59 PM GMT
i agree its on a downward spiral.... but would be great to see a forward thinking plan by the BHA and/or IHRB that will arrest the decline
Report Hayden February 4, 2024 4:04 PM GMT
They've had enough time and warning signals to come up with one by now so i've assumed they've got as much of a plan as the Tories have.
Report Flemenstar February 4, 2024 4:26 PM GMT
its place in the calendar should definitely be reconsidered.

This weekend has been an utter joke
Report brandyontherocks February 4, 2024 4:31 PM GMT
Why would you think it has been a joke?
Report Hayden February 4, 2024 4:32 PM GMT
Seen a few Cheltenham winners for sure and that's no joke   Happy
Report formoftheace February 4, 2024 4:33 PM GMT
Shambles Cheltenham is the main aim the nonsense is pocket money on the way over …

As Ted W would say to pick up the English money….
Report sageform February 4, 2024 4:37 PM GMT
How long will the other Irish trainers survive when Willie Mullins wins 9 of the most valuable races at the meeting plus most of the place money as well? Even G Elliott only managed a handicap at 28/1.
Report Hayden February 4, 2024 4:40 PM GMT
That's were the bar's set Sage and informs other mortals of the heights they need to aspire to both in Ireland and England.

Can't expect him to come back to the pack voluntarily.
Report 1st time poster February 4, 2024 4:42 PM GMT
mullins is like hendo all about the money if he wants to has the owners.ammo to buy the best  of the elliot horses in the upcoming dispersdal sale and get a complete stranghold on irish/uk racing
Report sageform February 4, 2024 4:50 PM GMT
Of course not Hayden but how many will be watching or betting if one trainer has 90% of the placed runners which is where they are heading. It can only be checked by some change in the rules and I can't see that happening until Willie retires.
Report cacique February 4, 2024 4:54 PM GMT
Mullins cannot help that the owners send him good horses... but running a festival that is meant to showcase the great and the good of Irish racing that attracts 2 runners for a novice chase with €117k to the winner is not the optics anyone wants.

And I don't think the majority of people that go racing don't care that 2 good horses are racing against each other.... they want a competitive race. tight finish with the chance of backing an 8/1 or 12/1 winner.


Switch the races to conditions handicaps and have Stateman give weight away to rivals and you'd see lots of trainer taking him on.

Put in entry races with bonus's for winning all of them and the entries should follow.
Report Hayden February 4, 2024 5:00 PM GMT
Plenty of choice though for whatever floats your boat for punters not be totally put off , it's a bit like using the remote control and finding what you prefer...

Class runners at Leopardstown
Turf handicaps at Musselburgh
All weather at Lingfield

So still enough to please everyone really whether you're a racing purist or just a general punter , also i suspect the majority of punters won't care or even know which horses are placed as the majority play win only anyway.
Report Flemenstar February 4, 2024 5:01 PM GMT
Small fields
Match race in one of the big talking races of the week
Obstacles omitted in home straight
Report Hayden February 4, 2024 5:06 PM GMT
cacique
Switch the races to conditions handicaps and have Stateman give weight away to rivals and you'd see lots of trainer taking him on.

I'd imagine bookmakers would wholeheartedly support that idea mate , thought we had enough races favouring the layers currently without generating more.

Not in favour personally of penalising something just because it happens to be a lot better than the rest or are you in favour of doing something in the champion hurdle to bring Chill and State Man closer together.
Report CROPSICK February 4, 2024 5:28 PM GMT
Well we know that the export of horses to Australia and more lately and more detrimental for NH racing especially for the hurdles to the middle east is having a serious effect on the number of quality horses available.But also the rise of AW racing is now giving the 80ish rated horses a reason for staying in that disicpline for most of the winter thus further reducing the supply.
Trainers are now buying more French horses from the flat which for the last few years in my opinion have not kept up the quality of UK/Irish flat breds although that could be about to change as our horses are exported abroad.
Cant see anything changing anytime soon.
Report brandyontherocks February 4, 2024 5:37 PM GMT
Should Cheltenham also make their grade 1s handicaps to put an end to small field,  uncompetitive races?
Report cacique February 4, 2024 5:43 PM GMT
on the champion hurdle throughout the year... yes. maybe not at Cheltenham or Aintree, but pick one meeting and decide that that is the Grade 1 championship race.

I don't see the point in the Morgiana/Hattons Grace/Matheson/Leop CH/Punch CH all being Grade 1 level weight races to decide between a handful of horses who is the best. There are always multiple repeat winners

Similar in UK
Fight Fifth/Elite//Christmas/Relkeel/International/Kingwell/Cheltenham/Aintree to decide between limited number of horses who is the  best.

If Constitution Hill can beat them at levels in November then I'll assume he can beat them again at Kempton and again at Cheltenham.
but let him give weight away and beat 20 battle hardened handicappers giving them 2 stone...... give him the opportunity to prove his worth.

Other sports have their pinnacle event (World Cup/Champions League/Stanley Cup/Vince Lombardi/Olympics/ashes/Wimbledon/Masters Golf/Crucible)

NH Racing should gear their season to have a focal point..... which is already there.... Cheltenham in March.
Report cacique February 4, 2024 5:52 PM GMT
If the BHA are thinking long term and are concerned about becoming a nursery for producing horses to race in Australia/Dubai/Hong Kong... then why don't they support a national hunt breeding programme? The big outfits will produce the flat horses anyway... Juddmonte/Shadwell/Darley/Coolmore

The mares races being introduced was an idea, but if the mares are racing, they are not producing! maybe go down the French route and have colts hurdling/chasing. Saint De Saint and Blue Bresil spring to mind
incentives to race entire's and then put them to stud with the idea of producing national hunt horses...
Report impossible123 February 4, 2024 5:53 PM GMT
What's going on here is sad. The participants in UK racing are killing the industry from bookies (reluctance to accept bets = reduced levy = prize money); trainers (uncompetitive/non-entrepreneurial race planning); big owners (narrow/selective patronage of trainers).

The most critical and significant impediment to UK Racing is the bookies eg their reluctance to accept bets --> reduced levy --> reduced prize money --> reduced quality horses --> reduced quality racing.

If Coolmore downsizes (however unlikely to pack it in) or relocates AOB or Ballymore overseas (not UK) UK horseracing could be extinct.

I'm beginning "warm" towards DRF. If UK NH trainers still believe their horses ultimate goal is Cheltenham they are short-sighted and too insular, and I wish them luck. I also hope their horses make Cheltenham, and not succumb to any unplanned natural event.
Report CROPSICK February 4, 2024 6:04 PM GMT
Thing is i can only think of a handful of Enlgish runners at most that would have been competative if they had come over, when you look at the antepost lists its only C/hill, Stayawafay,GreyDawning, Sir gino and maybe Ginnys destiny that could have come and 3 of thoes ran last week, so its only h'cappers thats left.
That to me shows the dire straits that English NH racing is in.
Report elisjohn February 4, 2024 6:07 PM GMT
about 8 grade 1 races this weekend  where in honesty no more than gallops, to think that Royal ascot only had 2 group1 up to the 90s, group1 should be special races now its a bloddy joke
Report impossible123 February 4, 2024 6:25 PM GMT
If you do not enter you cannot win. Look at the shorties that were turned-over this afternoon at Leopardstown. I believe the 2 top NH trainers in the UK are insular lazy, and with self-interests only eg easy/easier pickings in the UK ie exploiting their UK dominance eg deep-pocket owners/best horses against their own. They also seem to have forgotten to win overseas even against the same horses has more kudos than winning in one's own backyard only.

I like DRF because the Group 1's are confined to only 2 days, unlike Cheltenham (4/soon to be 5) where commercialisation (skinning the racegoers/punters) is their no 1 objective despite the lack of quality horses/races to support it.
Report impossible123 February 4, 2024 6:36 PM GMT
When you've a child you'd try to send the child to the best school. If constrained by finance you'd try to get your child into a better school eg enter your child to sit an entrance/qualifying exam/assessment ie pitch your child against children from other schools, not just within your child's own school.

Similarly, PLC have tended to bring in a fresh broom and not promote from within if specific expertise is required to ensure success.
Report 1st time poster February 4, 2024 6:39 PM GMT
TOM SCU thought he was been clever today nut inadvertently give the game away, derham muted something similar on lucky,
he was asking where are these so called battles we,re missing out doesnt think their there
but if TOME SCU doesnt rate   races against/between  top 3 rated horses as battles,whats left
tunes in with what chappers was saying so called grade ones throughout season are just exercise gallops for connections to collect money/pot hunt avoid horses rated around them for a showdown at chelt
but TOM SCU thinks their one sided showdowns ,and it suits everyone to hide that from public till chelt
Report DrGordons February 4, 2024 6:58 PM GMT
Does anyone actually enjoy the kind of racing we've had at Leopardstown? I can't believe how the Mullins juggernaut can be hyped-up to be appealing to a true racing fan. Good luck to you Willie and give us a wave on the way to the bank.
Report impossible123 February 4, 2024 7:34 PM GMT
DRF is merely a betting info exercise. I'd have enjoyed it more had Constitution Hill had shown his face; Bravemansgame did at the backend of last season when he got chinned by Fastorslow.

But, DRF has confirmed to me El Fabiola will run Jonbon rugged unless Nico is enterprising.
Report workrider February 4, 2024 11:32 PM GMT
I really can't believe what I am reading here, so the DRF shouldn't exist according to some its not a racing festival say others, yet the BRITISH champion Chase winner won and beat the Irish Champion Chases winner . The 2nd in the British Champion hurdle has just won again today..Oh I nearly forgot a certain horse in Lambourn stayed tucked up safely in his box , the Irish understand the word RACE hoses unlike their cousins across the Irish Sea who seem to think that winning at 1/14 at Kelso remember that horse anyone ,is the way forward..That's why come Cheltenham once again the Irish will dominate ...
Report workrider February 4, 2024 11:34 PM GMT
I meant Gold Cup Winners, the Champion Chase winner is injured otherwise he'd have been strutting his stuff for good measure...
Report jimnast February 5, 2024 9:50 AM GMT
For those who get of there arse and do things in life there’s a lot of point to the Dublin festival
Report CROPSICK February 5, 2024 9:55 AM GMT
Totally agree with Workrider apart from the 2 horse race yesterday which really was just a victim of circumstances i have realy enjoyed it.
Report CROPSICK February 5, 2024 9:58 AM GMT
The top trainers over here go out of there way so as not to run their stablemates together before Cheltenham, easir to find them a penalty kick at Taunton.
Report firstimevisor February 5, 2024 10:30 AM GMT
The OP would have made more sense starting a "what is the point of Cheltenham Trials Day" thread
Report FOYLESWAR February 5, 2024 10:40 AM GMT
happy to have top class racing on  wherever it is staged tbh .
Report screaming from beneaththewaves February 5, 2024 12:06 PM GMT
The point of Trials Day at Cheltenham is that it featured seven different winning trainers, and every race was a contest with half a dozen different outfits setting out their stall. As a racegoer you felt involved, had an opinion, even if you didn't have a bet. It felt like a sport.

The weekend at Leopardstown looked (watching from the British side of the Irish Sea) like business rather than a sport. The business being making sure there's lots of black type featuring under the dams of everything in future sales catalogues. I found it impossible to care which Mullins horse won and which went out like a light.

The thing about Trials day at Cheltenham is that it really isn't about trials. It's a great afternoon of intriguing horse races at a magical venue. The "Trials" label is just a bit of marketing guff to build up the March festival. Leopardstown at the weekend, by contrast, really is a Trials weekend. Fair enough, but it gets marketed as a weekend of great racing, which is where the disappointment sets in.
Report workrider February 5, 2024 12:07 PM GMT
The amount of English people at Leopardstown was a testimony to its worth , I'd say over 40% of those attending were British ,and several I spoke to said they preferred it to Cheltenham and couldn't wait to come back next year...
Report cacique February 5, 2024 12:11 PM GMT

Feb 5, 2024 -- 10:30AM, firstimevisor wrote:


The OP would have made more sense starting a "what is the point of Cheltenham Trials Day" thread


How is a showcase of irish racing a trial for Cheltenham?

This is surely a rival for Cheltenham, and yes the dates fall nicely in line with Cheltenham but by no means should we look on the UK as the be all and end all of all that is great about racing.

Ireland has most of the good NH horses and we will expect to dominate the English...

Just very disappointed that there was a 2 runner novice chase and 4 runner champion hurdle and gold cup.
And there doesn't seem to be anyone at the helm with vision/foresight/imagination to put on a spectacle that shows off that we are the best in the world at NH racing.

Report xaar February 5, 2024 12:12 PM GMT
the same workrider was on rte news loads of English said it was better alright, some moaning c*nts on here Laugh why don't you get a trainer licence and enter some horses ffs Laugh
Report acey deucy February 5, 2024 12:14 PM GMT
Great Racing i loved it....But queuing 20 minutes for a pish and not to mention the Bar?....Fack that.Plain
Report workrider February 5, 2024 12:15 PM GMT
Can anyone tell me how many British horses took on Con Hill in his races this year..I doubt it was more than 5 I could be wrong, yet here we have people on here complaining about small fields ...
Report 1st time poster February 5, 2024 12:19 PM GMT
those travelling over thought it was better than chelt,probably same people who think chelt is spoilt by diluting it and to many irish horse dominating the  races, GO FIGURE LaughLaugh
Report Manoleeds February 5, 2024 12:19 PM GMT
Made first visit on Saturday . Just amazing. Very well organised, great atmosphere, reasonable catering and drink prices. Next time I won't be travelling to and from on the day as a late take off and traffic chaos near the course meant Mrs Mano and I only got there as the first race was starting and due to airline changing return flight time, had to miss the bumper. If Marine Nationale had won, I'd have been in profit but ....
Report xaar February 5, 2024 12:22 PM GMT
workrider imagine con hill was irish Laugh
Report Hayden February 5, 2024 12:46 PM GMT
Dual Champion Hurdle hero Hardy Eustace has died at the age of 27.

The hugely popular gelding was trained by the late Dessie Hughes to win 14 times in a 48-race career, including a trio of Cheltenham Festival victories.

Having landed the Royal & SunAlliance Novices’ Hurdle at Prestbury Park in 2003 under Kieran Kelly, he returned 12 months later to make all in the Champion Hurdle at 33-1, partnered by Conor O’Dwyer.
Report Hayden February 5, 2024 12:52 PM GMT
Festival is just a modern buzz word so take it to mean what you want.

Let's face it if a dump like Chester full of low grade garbage is called one then every day is festival day  Happy
Report 1st time poster February 5, 2024 12:52 PM GMT
if you were in england and a chelt goer not sure why you,d want to go to DRF to watch horses in basically a yard gallop ,when your going to see them in their cup final in 5 weeks time
Report sageform February 5, 2024 1:05 PM GMT
I can see why they run the meeting and even if I couldn't, it is not my business but as a reflection of the state of racing in Ireland in general it is a cause for concern. Apart from a few small scale part timers I don't see how there will be more than 5 licenced trainers left in Ireland if this continues. And if Willie wins 10 or more races at Cheltenham, a few GB trainers might be packing it in as well.
Report 1st time poster February 5, 2024 1:08 PM GMT
elliott will be targeting the handicaps now cant compete with willie in the graded races,can see elliott coming to uk alot more in future premier racing etc,  to avoid willies big guns in ire
Report jimnast February 5, 2024 2:05 PM GMT
That’s very sad to hear Hayden he is my all time favourite national hunt horse thankfully I went to say him last year and was able to give him a pat on the neck

RIP old boy there were none tougher Sad
Report impossible123 February 5, 2024 3:32 PM GMT
I like the format of DRF eg a 2-day fixture. To me the only anti-climax is the Gp 1 winners came almost entirely from one stable. This is not the trainer's fault, it's the owners; when a trainer has golden bullets for virtually every Gp 1 race the sport can be "selectively" managed, and the sport gets boring eventually. Imagine the same happening in the Premier and Champions League; the teams all owned by 2/3 oil sheikhs or American NFL tycoons.

DRF is not a spun-off from Cheltenham; DRF can exist on its own or alongside Cheltenham. But, Cheltenham cannot exist without the majority of the Gp 1 runners from the DRF. If so, Cheltenham will be a sub-standard fixture and prestige eroded given time.
Report wondersobright February 5, 2024 3:40 PM GMT
cheltenham already is sub-standard compared to previous times imo
Report Hayden February 5, 2024 3:48 PM GMT
In the past you couldn't wait for Cheltenham's 18-21 races knowing you could barely afford to miss a second , now with 28 at least you can plan when to pop over to the shops if need be.
Report comingupthehill February 5, 2024 3:53 PM GMT
Most of the DRF races were run anyway at various meetings,they just clubbed them altogether at one festival.
Report wondersobright February 5, 2024 3:54 PM GMT
I prefer standalone meetings tbh
Report wondersobright February 5, 2024 3:57 PM GMT

Feb 5, 2024 -- 3:48PM, Hayden wrote:


In the past you couldn't wait for Cheltenham's 18-21 races knowing you could barely afford to miss a second , now with 28 at least you can plan when to pop over to the shops if need be.


when it went to 4 days 24 races it could be justified with the field sizes
28 races plenty of thin fields last 5 years especially its shocking dilution

Report comingupthehill February 5, 2024 4:08 PM GMT
Think 4 days is fine,

Who would have thought that millions of racing fans are fascinated by a cross country chase.
There was no bumper so the 3 days bulged to 7 races.

To get all disciplines,distances novices ,amateurs in. You need 4 days to fit them in.
Report MJK February 5, 2024 4:32 PM GMT

Feb 5, 2024 -- 3:32PM, impossible123 wrote:


I like the format of DRF eg a 2-day fixture. To me the only anti-climax is the Gp 1 winners came almost entirely from one stable. This is not the trainer's fault, it's the owners; when a trainer has golden bullets for virtually every Gp 1 race the sport can be "selectively" managed, and the sport gets boring eventually. Imagine the same happening in the Premier and Champions League; the teams all owned by 2/3 oil sheikhs or American NFL tycoons.DRF is not a spun-off from Cheltenham; DRF can exist on its own or alongside Cheltenham. But, Cheltenham cannot exist without the majority of the Gp 1 runners from the DRF. If so, Cheltenham will be a sub-standard fixture and prestige eroded given time.


Talk of extending DRF to three days....

Report comingupthehill February 5, 2024 4:33 PM GMT
Gaelic warrior might get a walk over if it goes to 3 days
Report impossible123 February 5, 2024 4:37 PM GMT
I'd accept 3-days given the quality of the races.
Report jimnast February 5, 2024 5:13 PM GMT
I would like 3 days however my liver wouldn’t
Report Hayden February 5, 2024 5:14 PM GMT
Laugh
Report jimnast February 5, 2024 5:15 PM GMT
What I did suggest to some was that the thyistis was put back 8 days then the overseas visitors could sample the delights of that day before moving on to leopardstown
Report firstimevisor February 5, 2024 6:25 PM GMT
How has it all gone so wrong for British national hunt racing? Once powerful yards like Hobbs, Pipe, Johnjo, King, Twister, Tizzard have nothing and even if they do get the odd top class horse they can't seem to hold their form for any longer than one season. These yards still have big numbers but the inconsistency of form, even of the low graders, is dire. Other recent up-and-coming trainers like Fry, Marston, longsden, Newland, Marston, Pauling look like they are already on downward spirals.
Report CagliariG February 5, 2024 6:37 PM GMT
Is everyone so blind that they fail to see the consequences for the Irish industry in the future? People babbling on about the Brits whilst the reality is much more bleak for Ireland given that Gigginstown cannot compete in their own back yard and soon to be leaving completely?
Report MJK February 5, 2024 7:38 PM GMT

Feb 5, 2024 -- 6:25PM, firstimevisor wrote:


How has it all gone so wrong for British national hunt racing? Once powerful yards like Hobbs, Pipe, Johnjo, King, Twister, Tizzard have nothing and even if they do get the odd top class horse they can't seem to hold their form for any longer than one season. These yards still have big numbers but the inconsistency of form, even of the low graders, is dire. Other recent up-and-coming trainers like Fry, Marston, longsden, Newland, Marston, Pauling look like they are already on downward spirals.


There's a good lot of horses down the years who were average on the flat but who were far better over jumps. Nowadays most of those horses are kept to the AW. That's not the sole reason for the downturn but it's one of them imop.

Report LoyalHoncho February 5, 2024 9:30 PM GMT
I agree with you ftv.  I've never seen British NH racing in such a dire state of moderateness.  For want of a better word.  Take Nicholls and Henderson horses away and there would be a dearth of top quality of any kind.
Report 1st time poster February 5, 2024 9:40 PM GMT
yes but there,d still be top rated horses,there,ll always be top rated horses,the graded races will always be there and someone will win them
Report LoyalHoncho February 5, 2024 9:48 PM GMT
Of course but where are all the top quality chasers we used to see?
When trainers from as far away as Perth and Kinross can target top races and put up with all the travelling involved to do and by virtue of a well-planned satellite stable further south, does it not say something about the quality in the shires?!
Report workrider February 5, 2024 10:34 PM GMT
Lads leaving National preferences aside we have the best game in the World bar none, I race every day possible here , and make my way across the Irish Sea at least 10 times a year sometimes for weeks at a time. I love everything about the game , the people, the horses, the tracks its just something that stirs me inside its like magic. I'm heading to the Curragh early tomorrow to watch one I have a share in do its first piece of work and the excitement is electric, I'll probably lie awake most of the night going over and over in my mind races for the future etc, you just cant buy those feelings . When all is said and done its a wonderful life that I have enjoyed living for over 50 years. Even today at Punchestown a drab meeting compared to the weekend, there were people who had an opinion on what was on offer , and most of them didn't want to be anywhere else, that's what this game does to you, as already said its Magical so lets just enjoy these incredible creatures  while we can...
Report saxon farm February 6, 2024 7:12 AM GMT
Well said workrider.
Report impossible123 February 6, 2024 7:46 AM GMT
'workrider', I'd the same joy and feelings when I went doggie-racing regularly in the 80's including graded races. The punctuations of 2/3 Open races were bonuses. Of course, events like the annual at White City/Wimbledon Derby supported by top races over various distances and hurdles were icing on the cake. I looked forward to these meeting enormously, and planned my evenings meticulously. Those were the days.

Now, it's merely a spectacle thing eg info gathering; betting only prudent if non-overseas, and trainers without multiple runners eg Ireland (NH). Nevertheless, it's still a fairly enjoyable pastime.
Report jimnast February 6, 2024 8:09 AM GMT
Yes very well said workrider nowhere better to be than around racing
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