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14 Oct 23 15:25
Date Joined: 13 Jun 12
| Topic/replies: 11,219 | Blogger: StillLearning's blog
'its quite an open race' as Arabian crown blasts clear and wins by about 8
Pause Switch to Standard View is it hoiles at newmarket
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Report Ibrahima Sonko October 14, 2023 3:26 PM BST
Horse on the snaff & kicking clear, awful commentary.
Report flapper October 14, 2023 3:36 PM BST
They are 'commentators' and should comment on what is happening in front of them. The majority spend a good portion of the commentary second guessing what will happen next - we can see that as the viewer and make up our own minds.  It can't be the ITV dumbing down to the audience angle, because Hoiles is like that at a Tuesday at Wincanton. Hoiles top drawer and an intelligent man.  But his weakness is matronising the viewer. The Irish lad has his knockers but at least he just calls the field and highlights jumping errors or mid race moves.  He doesn't miss much as a result.
Report ratpack October 14, 2023 9:24 PM BST
Good evening. I will happily donate £500 to the IJF if you can post me saying anything of the sort in the Zetland this afternoon. Matronising also sound interesting Grin
Report Cider October 14, 2023 9:37 PM BST
It was Simon on RTV.
Report strontium October 14, 2023 10:50 PM BST
Always pleased if I get to the course and it's Hoiles or Holt commentating. Always wish I were somewhere else if its Johnston or Bartlett (as it so often seems to be at the big tracks in the south). I enjoyed Cattermole's commentary on the real racing at Chepstow today.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 October 15, 2023 9:07 AM BST

I am sure you are well aware the average IQ on this forum struggles to get above 70.

You are ok in my book, but ITV has been a big backward step for racing. The frontman is the biggest sycophant ever seen on tv.
Report 11kv October 15, 2023 9:24 AM BST
Camera work was poor yesterday imo
Report ashleigh October 15, 2023 9:30 AM BST
Still Learning you have been on here for 11 years, if you don't know the difference between Richard Hoiles and Simon Holt by now you are in the wrong sport.

Ratpack is the best there is in my opinion, Simon Holt close behind.
Report WhiteHatJon October 15, 2023 9:51 AM BST
I agree with ashleigh.
Report dave1357 October 15, 2023 10:17 AM BST
flapper didn't attribute the poor commentary to Hoiles, merely gave a general opinion, to which he is entitled. Did Holt use the words or similar as claimed by Still Learning?
Report Cider October 15, 2023 10:31 AM BST

Just like 2 seconds can make all the difference in running, and a runner can go from 1.5 to 10, I'm sure similar is true in race calling. The eyes see something, the brain initiates a response, the mouth begins uttering it and in that instant the situation changes. But it's too late to engage reverse. Therefore by the time he had finished the phrase/sentence it was too late, and obsolete. An occupational hazard. Simon Holt also called the wrong horse leading the Ces for a long while, which I'm sure he is much more gutted about, tho it obviously comes with huge mitigation in that particularly unique race.
Report swiftynifty October 15, 2023 10:41 AM BST
M C Muldoon is a grey, that should have been the clue for 2 runners in the same colours, suggests a lack of homework from Holt.
Report Cider October 15, 2023 10:50 AM BST
It's an error yes, as I'm stating he will most likely be more disappointed with that, than calling a snapshot of the race scenario that changed at around the same time he called it. Either situation is hardly earth shattering though, they aren't robots. I like to think I'm pretty good at my job, but I still make a glaring error from time to time. It's just not broadcast to the public.
Report swiftynifty October 15, 2023 10:54 AM BST
well you highlighted it! I think Holt has got lazy, I've lost count of the number of times he calls the places wrong, I think he focuses on the winner too much and takes his eye off the ball.
Report Cider October 15, 2023 11:06 AM BST
Yes my point is that the Ces error is more worthy of critique. What this thread references is nothing in my opinion, calling the wrong horse leading by 5 lengths in what is one of the flagship races of the season can be justifiably criticised. One is absolutely nothing, one is a genuine error that ideally should not have happened, but for me neither is something that would vex me for a single second. I started a thread about Gordon Brown continually droning on and on and on about the weather and Scotland in his punditry. People can think I'm right or wrong in being vexed about that, but as a regular viewer of RTV it was really starting to impact my viewing experience! ie it's a deliberate 'editorial' choice to present in such a fashion, not human error.
Report ratpack October 15, 2023 11:10 AM BST
Sun on monitors is massive issue for us at this time of year as it drops lower in the sky. Some comms boxes just reflect the light to such a degree that monitors are virtually unusable. Not a problem on a round course where can easily use bins but not an option in a race like the Ces.
Report DrGordons October 15, 2023 11:21 AM BST
Richard Hoiles is a good commentator.  But what really grates for me is his inability to turn down the volume after the line.  He's still shouting with that slightly triumphalist tone even when an outsider has eclipsed two or three fancied runners.  As Peter O'Sullevan said, you have to be conscious a race is a serious business with people investing serious money.
Report penzance October 15, 2023 12:00 PM BST
Everyone makes mistakes.Peter O'Sullevan called a Barry Hills colt (The Deep) as more
or less the winner of a race @Newbury,Horris Hill Stks.Got done on the line by a Sheikh
Mo horse.
Report Ramruma October 15, 2023 12:29 PM BST
ratpack - "Sun on monitors is massive issue ... ..."

Yes, I did wonder if SH could see properly. Presumably anti-glare filters have been tried and blocking the windows is out of the question for obvious reasons.

On a wider commentary note, sometimes it is like being back in the old Extel days where the commentator is determined to name every single horse in the race so is faffing around at the back while the lead has changed three times.
Report formoftheace October 15, 2023 12:36 PM BST
And up towards the line last for an age…..”flashed past together “
Report the dealer October 15, 2023 12:39 PM BST
Rapid headway was a particularly well worn phrase on extel, for horses they hadn't mentioned previously
Report Manoleeds October 15, 2023 12:55 PM BST
Dr Gordons -you do realise Ratpack is Richard Hoiles ?
Anyway step forward any person who in their job pleases everyone all of the time and never makes a mistake.
Report DrGordons October 15, 2023 1:21 PM BST
I kind of gathered that Mano. Everyone makes mistakes and he doesn't make many. I was saying that not everyone has to celebrate with the Itv crew when an unfancied one has stuffed 90 per cent of the audience.
Report Hayden October 15, 2023 1:34 PM BST
There are two sides to that though DrGordons , how would winning owners feel if there was a deflated feeling after their outsider wins ( and plenty of them do in these times ).

It's nice to please punters but owners should never be forgotten as the sport needs them more than ever in this climate.

For me all celebrations should be on a par be it 1/6 or 33/1.

Good luck today  Happy
Report penzance October 15, 2023 1:38 PM BST
The Derby wnr Erhaab was in that Horris Hill (1993).Race is  on youtube.
Worth a watch.
Report strontium October 15, 2023 1:44 PM BST
Yes, mistakes are inevitable. It must be extraordinarily hard to commentate on a 30-runner flat race.
Report MJK October 15, 2023 2:11 PM BST

Oct 15, 2023 -- 11:21AM, DrGordons wrote:

Richard Hoiles is a good commentator.

Report 11kv October 15, 2023 2:12 PM BST
Report MJK October 15, 2023 2:14 PM BST
It's a job I wouldn't be able to do so fair play to them for doing it. It would be great though if races were read not on focusing on where they are in the betting but every horse given equal billing. Too many races are littered with the focus on the favourite.  Alan How's imop is very good at just reading the race without the focus on the fav. He gets far too little gigs imop.
Report MJK October 15, 2023 2:14 PM BST
Report Manoleeds October 15, 2023 2:38 PM BST
But particularly for ITV racing and in the betting shops, a lot of punters will be on the favourite or the PW pick and are more interested in how that is doing than how a 25/1 shot is faring.
Report bigbillbovington October 15, 2023 2:47 PM BST
The camera work in finish is very annoying some times
We don't want arty farty close up of the 1st two
Bring the camera back so we can see the placed horses running on as well
I would say the camera work in a finish was better in the past.
Report MJK October 15, 2023 2:50 PM BST
Fair enough but imop the race shouldn't be just about the favourite when commentating (unless it's Frankel or the like). There's also the other owners to consider. Even the tone of some commentators voices you wouldn't have to know who the fav was beforehand to know during the race, its like oh my God the fav is under pressure.
Report MJK October 15, 2023 2:50 PM BST
^ to Manoleeds
Report StillLearning October 16, 2023 5:49 PM BST

Oct 15, 2023 -- 9:30AM, ashleigh wrote:

Still Learning you have been on here for 11 years, if you don't know the difference between Richard Hoiles and Simon Holt by now you are in the wrong sport.  Ratpack is the best there is in my opinion, Simon Holt close behind.

both sound similar I wasn't sure

Report lead on October 16, 2023 7:47 PM BST
The one I get Richard Hoiles mixed up with is Dickie Swainston,the guy who commentates on the French racing...I thought it was ratpack doing it in a French accent..Happy
Report flapper October 17, 2023 9:58 AM BST
Great commentary on the Tchaikovsky race I thought.
Report swiftynifty October 17, 2023 10:02 AM BST
yes, he definitely hit all the right notes. Opps sorry that's Machin.
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