Constitution Hill remains over hurdles -just announced

Constitution Hill Bookmaker Specials as reported by RP

Paddy Power

4-5 Constitution Hill to win the 2023 Fighting Fifth, 2023 Christmas Hurdle and 2024 Champion Hurdle
5-6 Constitution Hill to remain unbeaten in the 2023-24 National Hunt season (minimum three runs)
9-4 Constitution Hill to win the 2024 and 2025 Champion Hurdle
10-3 Constitution Hill to win the 2024 Champion Hurdle by ten lengths or more
5-1 Constitution Hill to win the 2024, 2025 and 2026 Champion Hurdle
14-1 Constitution Hill to win the 2024 Champion Hurdle by 20 lengths or more

William Hill

How many Champion Hurdles will Constitution Hill win?

12-1 Exactly one
7-2 Exactly two
4-6 Exactly three
7-2 Four or more
Evens Constitution Hill to remain unbeaten in the 2023-24 National Hunt season (minimum three runs)

Coral

How many Champion Hurdles will Constitution Hill win?

7-4 Three or more
4-1 Four or more

Impossible  backed envoi Allen at 16/1 to remain unbeaten  fell at the 2nd at cheltenham  no after timing put a thread  up about it before  the season started 16/1.

Impossible.  Was with skybet. 646

'ronnie', I remember Envoi Allen. His then trainer the big Irish pudding Elliot tends to big-up his charges eg Samcro and Envoi Allen. His next one could be Gerri Colombe.

I think the 'evens' to remain unbeaten in the 2023/2024 season is viable to trade up a turkey for a goose at x'mas. What happens if he is beaten on the 4th eg at Aintree but won 1st 3? Will that bookie still pay out?

Impossible  if he gets beat at Aintree he will not remain unbeaten  all season so the bet will be down.
Hope you see well.

impossible123
19 Sep 23 18:08
Joined: 07 Sep 15
| Topic/replies: 24,438 | Blogger: impossible123's blog
'Hayden', I do not think any bookie will allow a bet comprising 3 different prices for 3 different races for a treble as they are not mutually exclusive. I think 4/5 is acceptable as in March at Cheltenham he'll be once again be about 1/3 or 2/7.

Wouldn't disagree impossibe , my suggestion was that a reinvestment on the exchange at post time would maybe pay evens anyway and omit the non attendance risk.

It's all about opinions and good to discuss options   

think the 'evens' to remain unbeaten in the 2023/2024 season is viable to trade up a turkey for a goose at x'mas. What happens if he is beaten on the 4th eg at Aintree but won 1st 3? Will that bookie still pay out?


Which part of remains unbeaten do you not understand FFS

Anyone backing Hills 4/6 winning exactly 3 champion hurdles needs to spend some time in rampton.

Of course it’s just advertising for them even some of the loonies on here wouldn’t take that price

Impossible -fair play to you for remembering Envoi Allen -how many decades ago was that.

Laying.
We all make mistakes  none more than me  don't think impossible  deserved that.

I don't understand why people think it is boring
watching this great hurdler in action.

I don't recall many people screaming at Usain Bolt
to step up to 800m because he was dominant over 100/200m

constitution hill could be the greatest hurdler of all time. they have made the correct decision.

Sprinter sacre was the most dominant chaser Ive seen ,in his first two seasons chasing he was absolutely brilliant and beating good horses ,and we all know what happened in his 3rd season,as the great Micheal Dickinson said he went missing in action

Brandy I agree it's not boring watching him win over 2miles.

However, many of the greats of the past have stepped up in trip to become acknowledged as true champions.

Ronnie, you're right. I'm in one of those moods.

JJ isn't Chepstow in 20mph Wales you'll have to set off two weeks earlier than usual.

Two more Champion hurdles seem highly likely but after that the spectre of injury or just going stale will loom up. And of course there might be a better one lurking in Ireland within a year.

Yes sageform there may well be.

Chepstow 20mph limit will only be the last mile or so from the M4 junction and last time I went I averaged about 5mph along that stretch. It will be people who have to drive miles through suburbia who will be most inconvenienced. It is very late this year though. First decent meeting is Exeter on 12 October followed by 2 days at Chepstow.

Nico is adamant that he won't stay 3 and 1/4 miles.
Hope he wasn't the reason Shishkin stayed over 2 miles for too long.

If his regular jockey is adamant the horse will not stay 3.25 miles that's good enough for me; Thistlecrack won the Stayers Hurdle yet struggled to stay more than 3m over fences.

The horse didn't look like he was crying out for further at Aintree.

Interesting that Mullins plans to keep a horse as promising as Impaire et Passe over hurdles this season. Maybe he doesn't think CH is unbeatable.

Might need a rewatch, wasn't exactly stopping and won hands and heels.

impossible123 • September 19, 2023 6:30 PM BST
'ronnie', I remember Envoi Allen. His then trainer the big Irish pudding Elliot tends to big-up his charges eg Samcro and Envoi Allen


Envoi Allen ran eleven times for Gordon Elliot and won 11 times (including the Ballymore and the Bumper at Cheltenham)
Gordon wouldn't big any of his horses up ....the media would big up his chances though

'Unless you win a Gold Cup why go chasing?' - Constitution Hill decision the right one says Barry Geraghty

Geraghty quoted in the RP. He's clearly forgetting the achievements, spectacle and talent of Sprinter Sacre and Moscow Flyer who in no small part helped him on his career path.

Forgetting these horses to remain in the bosom of Seven Barrows, I'm sure the owners of these horses must be severely disappointed to hear him say this. He's gone right down in my estimations the @rse licker that he's showing himself to be.

Sometimes in life you've just got to decide to keep your mouth shut and knowing how close he is to the horse has clearly impacted on his rationale. Another example of those in the inner sanctums of racing taking the rest of us for halfwits.

The majority of horses only have about 4 seasons where they
can compete at the top table.
This will be Constitution Hill's third season.
Why spend it novice chasing?
If he was to ever go chasing, last season was the time to do it.

Correct decision by all concerned.

The whole point of Constitution Hill is that he's not 'most horses'. He's special to the point he could be the greatest we've ever seen.

And now he won't be.

Why won't he be the greatest?

Because we already disappointed, the jewel in the crown is what's the next one what could be the greatest, what keeps us going.

Old white blokes with no balls. No shortage of then.

Doesnt have to go over fences to be the greatest weve ever seen.

However wont be able to prove it over hurdles tho due to the lack of any credible opposition.

Sep 20, 2023 -- 9:58PM, brandyontherocks wrote:

The majority of horses only have about 4 seasons where theycan compete at the top table.This will be Constitution Hill's third season.Why spend it novice chasing?If he was to ever go chasing, last season was the time to do it.Correct decision by all concerned.

You can't seriously be counting his novice campaign as competing at the "top table"?

A retired CV as a two time Champion Hurdle, two time Queen Mother winner along with maybe an Ascot Gold Cup, Yorkshire Cup or Melbourne Cup would seriously signal his greatness, as it stands the safe option of dossing up in 4 runner G1s at 1/10 prove absolutely nothing and arguably create more questions than answers.

Heaven forbid we asked him to lump top weight in a handicap, Nicky would be up through the night in a cold sweat at the thought.

We'd be as well doing away with the jumps game if connections are so risk averse whenever we get the chance of something out of the ordinary coming along.

It's winning races where conditions are against the horse which establishes greatness. Ratings don't. And avoiding defeat certainly doesn't.

SBTW.
Would you take evens to remain  unbeaten  all season.
Hope you are well.
Ronnie.

Thirty years ago John Randall in the Post was trying to argue that the King George is a better test of a chaser than the Cheltenham Gold Cup. His justification was that Desert Orchid ran to much higher ratings in winning the King George than when the horse rallied to pip Yahoo in the Gold Cup.

Randall just couldn't understand that it was the very fact that Desert Orchid could still find those couple of lengths through the rain up the Cheltenham hill to beat a much inferior horse which established his all-time greatness. Not the much higher ratings he achieved in winning those King Georges on a flat, right-handed track on good ground.

It's all about winning the hard races, not cruising home in the easy ones.

Ronnie, you can get 8% on a savings account right now. Evens suddenly becomes an odds-on shot when you look at what else you could be doing with the money.

Besides, it's not just about the horse remaining sound. We now know that the trainer and owner are cowards. The slightest hint of heavy or good in the going description, and the horse won't be leaving its stable.
______

I'm well, thanks. I'm off to Newton Abbot tomorrow, inspection permitting. Life's always good when you've got an afternoon at Newton to look forward to. I hope things are going as well for you and your wife as they can do.

screaming

not to bad at the moment, we have been in the lakes from Monday till tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday you got a wash and blow dry for free, yesterday got out in the afternoon but today was the first with any decent weather.

enjoy Newton Abbot tomorrow, i remember in 1976 10 of us from Darlo went to Torquay for the week, it was a red hot summer 9 went on the beach i went to Newton abbot

back to work next week on a phased return

screaming

not to bad at the moment, we have been in the lakes from Monday till tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday you got a wash and blow dry for free, yesterday got out in the afternoon but today was the first with any decent weather.

enjoy Newton Abbot tomorrow, i remember in 1976 10 of us from Darlo went to Torquay for the week, it was a red hot summer 9 went on the beach i went to Newton abbot

back to work next week on a phased return

How/Who are they ducking?

He will run in the Fighting Fifth, Christmas Hurdle and Champion Hurdle.

The biggest open Hurdle races in England.

They have told everyone the program so bring on the challengers.

O'brien wasn't criticised for not sending Istabraq chasing!!

Cecil should have sent Frankel to the Northumberland Plate to prove his greatness too.

When a horse is fast and hurdles brilliantly,  why consider doing anything else.

Boring! He'll retire unbeaten but unloved just like Frankel.

Don't see why he's got to jump a fence to prove how good he is.

Screaming:

Randall just couldn't understand that it was the very fact that Desert Orchid could still find those couple of lengths through the rain up the Cheltenham hill to beat a much inferior horse which established his all-time greatness.

Im sure the majority would agree with Randall.

Watching horses slogging it out in heavy ground over the gold cup trip in slow motion action certainly doesnt prove greatness or cut the mustard for me.

1/12 on the snaff all season wow! I can’t wait to see a horse competing in a walk over

Life lucky

You clearly haven’t seen the amount of people queuing to have pictures taken at his statues at ascot and york nor the popularity of his stable visits.

To my knowledge, Istabraq, Monksfield, Persian War, Comedy Of Errors, Birds Nest, Baracouda and the wonderful Sea Pigeon didn't go over fences

The wonderful sea pigeon what a perfect description.

Most of those were well before my time but Istabraq was a pony-sized flat-bred so not sure what relevance he has here. Baracouda was also an ex-flat horse I think.

Constitution Hill is different. Before he'd ever run I would guess most people would say he would be a better chaser than hurdler. Maybe that would still be the case but looking unlikely we'll ever find out.

Not really a Denman though is he ? I know you don't need to be these days. The owner complains about the moaning but he was a drama queen with the media.  Mentioning Dawn Run  & Ascot Gold Cup before he's even won a maiden on the flat. Deserves all the bull back imo.

Life lucky

You clearly haven’t seen the amount of people queuing to have pictures taken at his statues at ascot and york nor the popularity of his stable visits.


Life lucky either a cretin or on the wind-up.

Quite a few of those were all flat bred and ran on the flat before, Comedy of Errors did run over fences at the age of 10

Why the hell does a horse have to go chasing to prove himself?

Sep 22, 2023 -- 12:02PM, Tiger Tiger wrote:

Why the hell does a horse have to go chasing to prove himself?

Cause that's what national racing is all about.

A bit like a young lad claiming to be the best driver ever and all he's done is won at go-karts... Go do in the big league with the big boys and then come back to us.

national hunt*

I think you will find a lot of money is bet on hurdle races. So great interest in it.

Desert Orchid could still find those couple of lengths through the rain up the Cheltenham hill to beat a much inferior horse which established his all-time greatness.


So if you beat a couple of selling platers in bad conditions  over an extreme distance on soft going on a tough track you prove your greatness ?  PMSL

cacique - NO its not and you make a silly comparison. A Champion Hurdler is a Champion, and there have been some great ones that have never jumped fences. You dont need to win the Gold Cup to be a great horse, its a 3 mile 2 and a half furlongs chase and is often a slog. How many Gold Cup winners were good enough to win the Champion Hurdle? Its a long time since Dawn Run.

Yeah plenty of Gold Cup winners are ( Welsh ) National types/winners . Out and out stayers.

@ Tiger Tiger
The biggest prize in National Hunt racing in the Grand National.
The blue riband of NH is the Gold Cup.

No one is waxing lyrical about Quevega who was an all time record smashing mare at the Festival over hurdles. Or Big Bucks.


The peoples champion poll on Racing Post had Desert Orchid/Denman/Kauto/Red Rum/Spinter Sacre/Cue Card/Tiger Roll in latter stages of that competition.

They are still celebrated for what they did over fences.

I didn't say that the GC wasnt the Blue Riband of NH racing, I said that you dont have to to win the GC to be a great horse.

If you think that people dont wax lyrical about Quevega, Big Bucks, Istabraq, Persian War, Sea Pigeon, See You Then, Monksfield, Hardy Eustace and many more - then you need to broaden your horizons.

See You Then, I don't think anyone mentions that horse tbh, only ever ran once a year

The hell see you then only ever ran once a year

83/84 runs on the flat 4 over hurdles Naas,punchestown,triumph hurdle (that’s at Cheltenham)and Milan
84/85 won 3 from 5 starts
85/86 3 runs
86/87 2 runs
87/88 1 run
88/89 4 runs

That was 8 runs on the flat

Three time Champion Hurdle winner, won first 10 races.

Good effort that 10 on the bounce racing once a year

I'm looking forward to the Mullins horse Impaire Et Passe this coming season, would be wonderful to see he come on again and be able to press Constitution Hill in the big hurdle races.

I said on here the other day tiger that’s a proper horse.

Do you think they will bring him back to two miles jimnast? He's been convinving in all his wins but his last two were over 20f/21f.

My thoughts tiger is what happens with state man will have a baring ,Mullins won’t be frightened of by constitution hill but does have Lossiemouth,vauban,and facile vega not for one minute suggesting any of those would beat constitution hill and in vaubans case he is now exposed as just decent over hurdles but did look a different horse at royal ascot,I don’t think there any chance of him stepping up in trip unless something happened to Gaelic warrior.

The likes of istabraq,hardy eustace,and faugheen all won the sun alliance hurdle and were even better when dropped back to 2 miles

Comedy of Errors did run over fences at the age of 10

In Hell, thanks for the correction.

I went through a list of Timeform top rated hurdlers, and simply picked those i thought had never gone over fences.

I have said a couple of times on here that I understand their decision.

Personally I prefer chasing to hurdling, and had he been mine
he would have gone chasing last year.

But once you win a champion hurdle it is extremely unlikely you would
then switch codes.

He is a very fast horse so the Champion Chase would be the logical race
for him. Is that any more prestigious than the Champion Hurdle?

Stateman mopped up all the big Hurdle races in Ireland last season, but
readily brushed aside by Constitution Hill.
I find their decision to stick to hurdles far more confusing than Hendersons.

Howard:

So if you beat a couple of selling platers in bad conditions  over an extreme distance on soft going on a tough track you prove your greatness ?  PMSL

You've missed the point. It's if you fail against inferior horses over 3 1/4 miles on soft ground that you're not the Greatest. And you don't get a free pass by simply ducking the challenge.

It's the Lionel Messi thing - Can he do it on a wet Wednesday night in Stoke?

3m2F over fences with an uphill finish is a completely different ball game to 2m to 2.5m over hurdles.

The horse looks unbeatable over hurdles 2m to 2.5m. Why not let the horse become the greatest hurdler of all time?

Get a feeling though he will race 3 or 4 times a year max.

Wins so easily no reason not to race 10 times during the season baring injury as they are not hard races and really cement himself.

The decision is 100% correct. I'd have made the same decision if he was mine; the pilot's opinion is the only one that mattered and acted on.

So presumably all the horses that CH beats this season at level weights are to be classed as brilliant also? Or if one of them get a lucky shot at the end of the season and beat him then they will be the greatest...
Of course not.

CH will have to do something unusual to be remembered in 20/30 years time.

I don't think winning the Fighting Fifth, Christmas Hurdle & Champion Hurdle will be memorable, he would be expected to win these, and win them easy.

But if he gave lumps of weight away in a high class handicap and goes down valiantly to a feather weight it would serve his legacy better.

Arkle was the greatest because he got beaten by a Gold Cup winner - Stalbridge Colonist - by half a length giving that horse 35 lb. Arkle wasn't the greatest because he won the Gold Cup himself. Loads of horses have done that. Stalbridge Colonist won it.

Stalbridge Colonist nearly won a Gold Cup!

I can't believe he wouldn't stay. With his cruising speed, hed' be walking for 2.5 miles .... anyway that kinda stuff is such nonsense. What. you can't establish at home whether it stays or not? Such twaddle.

Stalbridge Colonist never won the Gold Cup.

Thistlecrack did not stay 3m 2.25f either. And, the beast won the Stayers Hurdle 2x, I think.

I beg your pardon. Stalbridge Colonist got beaten half a length in What A Myth's Gold Cup, of course.

Sorry.

Horse is just 6yr old - admittedly he looks a lot more grown up than that but he's just 6.
Will be 7 by the festival [obviously] and that's no barrier to winning the blue riband chase but,

there's plenty of time

screaming
Woodland Venture’s Gold Cup!

Oh Christ.

I do vividly remember seeing Arkle going down to the grey in the Hennessy on the telly, because it was the day I came out of hospital after having my tonsils out. I was five at the time, and I clearly wasn't following the Form Book closely enough.

I hope Mr Henderson speaks lesser this season. He's been guilty of piffle as he's heading towards retirement.

What a load of crap...... Messi is not the greatest because he hasn't done it on a wet Wednesday at Stoke.

Dear God!!!!!!

Pele never either. Nor did Cryuff or Di Stefano.

Why people think you have to play in England to be a great is beyond me.

Is it because that is the only league of football you watch.
So it has to be the best league?

Think about what you saying....
You can not be a great race horse if you are so dominant and make other good horse look ordinary unless you compete at a different distance or discipline.

Christ sake

It is the same as watching Frankel win the Queen Anne or the Juddmonte.  Two massive performances and saying he isn't that good because he didn't win in Ireland or France.

The horse looks unbeatable over hurdles 2m to 2.5m. Why not let the horse become the greatest hurdler of all time?

CH will have to win 5 champion hurdles to achieve that because we all know Istabraq would of won four if it isn't for foot and mouth.

On a serious note- Nicky had some greats and seen it all, must be a very good reason to keep it over hurdles. We are all guessers could only dream to be in their positions.

Lady

Nicky has only had one great horse ,he’s had plenty of very good horse.this one may well make it his 2nd great horse.

Impossible

Thistlecrack only won 1 stayers hurdle ,I don’t know why you keep saying he didn’t stay the gold cup trip.

Presumably because he was outstayed in a Cotswold Chase, albeit by a Grand National winner.

Back to CH - why do people on here think they know more about the horse's stamina than his jockey or trainer?

'jimnast', Thistlecrack won many staying races as easy as he'd like - one or two in a canter. But, over 3m chases a very different proposition; he'd not finish as strongly as the other horses who'd won the JML or RSA chases.

If De Boinville says CH will not stay 3m and beyond competitively just accept it. One can blame Hendo as much as one likes because of his constant pifle, but not the pilot.

Jimnast- greats in my books because of the cash I won on them like Remittance Man, loved that horse

Brandy try and relax a bit.

Going up in trip once you've become completely dominant over one distance always has and always will be a way for a champion horse to becomw an all time great.

Yes in the 1966 Hennessy , though Arkle got beat by Stalbridge Colonist giving 35lbs , he had a Gold Cup winner receiving 33lbs 1 1/2 lengths  back in third , What a Myth who won the 1969 Gold Cup .

Was Constitution Hill ever a serious consideration for the Gold Cup, even though Michael Buckley mentioned it several times during interviews.

I prefer to ignore Barry Gerathys insensitive and ridiculous assertion "unless your are going to win a GC why bother going chasing" but the horse is all speed, he could win an Ascot GC on the flat. The breeding doesn't scream out stayer either, even though Cue Card and Royal Pigalle figure in the progeny.

Does it really matter that he stays over hurdles anyway, many of the 'greats' did as i pointed out earlier. If he did win 4 champion hurdles and i'm not suggesting he will, the question of GOAT has to be considered at least and who knows maybe more credible opposition is head of him, even in 2024.

Personally i have him up there with Night Nurse, but not as good, yet, his CV needs more substantiation, but this could occur and i'm very confident he will not be beaten over 2 miles next season.

I’m embarrassed lady I had forgotten remittance man a great horse and one of my all time favourites

Impossible I haven’t commented on where constitution hill goes so it’s not a case of just accept it,to be honest I’m not surprised and if he were my horse I think I would have stayed over hurdles this season.