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Down to the final five.
See https://www.racingpost.com/news/features/series/denman-dessie-frankel-kauto-or-rummy-its-time-to-vote-now-to-crown-the-peoples-champion-aWBGU4q9cdzG/
Red Rum: the working-class hero who never knew when to quit
Kauto Star: the rock 'n' roll chaser who kept bouncing back to remind the doubters who was king
Frankel: greatness not in question - but doing it for Sir Henry made it so much more poignant
Desert Orchid: so much more than just an astonishing racehorse - he became part of the family too
Denman: they called him The Tank for good reason - and he pushed the boundaries of what we thought possible
Does no-one else think one of those horses does not belong in this august company? Seriously, WTF is Denman doing alongside the other four? In what way has Denman "pushed the boundaries of what we thought possible"?
Kauto Star, Red Rum and Desert Orchid won multiple iconic races. Red Rum and Desert Orchid transcended the sport and would appear on the front pages of national newspapers, open fetes and turn on the Christmas lights. Frankel was arguably the best Flat horse ever.
And Denman? What has he done that is so remarkable? A Gold Cup winner carrying "a saddle full of lead" in handicaps, apparently. Denman voters must be too young to remember this used to be standard fare. The most Denman carried was 11st 12lbs to win two Hennessy's. Desert Orchid won the Irish Grand National with 12st and the Racing Post Chase toting 12st 3lbs.
You can only imagine Harry Findlay hired a team of top tech nerds to hack the online voting for the object of his heart's desire.
See https://www.racingpost.com/news/features/series/denman-dessie-frankel-kauto-or-rummy-its-time-to-vote-now-to-crown-the-peoples-champion-aWBGU4q9cdzG/
Red Rum: the working-class hero who never knew when to quit
Kauto Star: the rock 'n' roll chaser who kept bouncing back to remind the doubters who was king
Frankel: greatness not in question - but doing it for Sir Henry made it so much more poignant
Desert Orchid: so much more than just an astonishing racehorse - he became part of the family too
Denman: they called him The Tank for good reason - and he pushed the boundaries of what we thought possible
Does no-one else think one of those horses does not belong in this august company? Seriously, WTF is Denman doing alongside the other four? In what way has Denman "pushed the boundaries of what we thought possible"?
Kauto Star, Red Rum and Desert Orchid won multiple iconic races. Red Rum and Desert Orchid transcended the sport and would appear on the front pages of national newspapers, open fetes and turn on the Christmas lights. Frankel was arguably the best Flat horse ever.
And Denman? What has he done that is so remarkable? A Gold Cup winner carrying "a saddle full of lead" in handicaps, apparently. Denman voters must be too young to remember this used to be standard fare. The most Denman carried was 11st 12lbs to win two Hennessy's. Desert Orchid won the Irish Grand National with 12st and the Racing Post Chase toting 12st 3lbs.
You can only imagine Harry Findlay hired a team of top tech nerds to hack the online voting for the object of his heart's desire.
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Who would you have had?
I don't think Frankel should be in it!!
Arkle defo; Sea Pigeon possibly; Tiger Roll maybe
I don't think Frankel should be in it!!
Arkle defo; Sea Pigeon possibly; Tiger Roll maybe
If it's just people's champion then Red Rum & Desert Orhid would easily be 1st & 2nd in that order.
95% of the people would not have heard of the other three supposed contenders.
Have a good day all
95% of the people would not have heard of the other three supposed contenders.
Have a good day all
Red Rum all Day long ffs...Scumbags the lot of ye.
In all fairness though it does depend on how you interpret the term " people "
Is it the public , maybe racing post voters or whatever else , knowing this would define the voting.
Is it the public , maybe racing post voters or whatever else , knowing this would define the voting.
Outstanding racehorses: Frankel, Desert Orchid, Kauto Star.
Famous outside racing: Red Rum, Desert Orchid.
So the winner by a Venn diagram ought to be Desert Orchid.
Famous outside racing: Red Rum, Desert Orchid.
So the winner by a Venn diagram ought to be Desert Orchid.
50% of population under 40,have no knowledge of red rum.
There’s 2 groups,racing post ,racing peoples view.
Average person,most of whom,don’t even know that there’s a newspaper called the racing post.let alone red rum,
Tiger roll would probably win a general public vote
There’s 2 groups,racing post ,racing peoples view.
Average person,most of whom,don’t even know that there’s a newspaper called the racing post.let alone red rum,
Tiger roll would probably win a general public vote
These surveys are very much of their time. Up to 20 or 30 years ago, you could probably have added Nijinsky to the short list of horses known to the general public. These days even hardcore racing fans would need to check that he won the triple crown.
And after Frankel's 2,000 Guineas, there were a few coffin-dodgers trying to remind us Tudor Minstrel had similarly won by half the track.
And after Frankel's 2,000 Guineas, there were a few coffin-dodgers trying to remind us Tudor Minstrel had similarly won by half the track.
On pure best results
Al boom photo technically has the best record.
Al boom photo technically has the best record.
Surprised at you using such a term as "coffin dodgers", Ramruma.
I thought that the whole point of a 'people's champion' is that it's someone who you desperately want to see land the big one, but they always just miss out, whether because of circumstances or their own flaws.
On that basis, it's Crisp first, the rest nowhere. I defy anyone to watch a replay of the 1973 National and not will Crisp to hang on this time, just this once.
On that basis, it's Crisp first, the rest nowhere. I defy anyone to watch a replay of the 1973 National and not will Crisp to hang on this time, just this once.
Just from a logic perspective, you would need to look at the opposition that Denman defeated to reach the final round, rather than the oppo in the final round. I have no idea, perhaps he had some soft heats.
Presumably they framed it so the big beasts couldn't knock each other out.
Is this similar to "who was the best Epsom Derby winner" organised by bookies in the late 70's? The winner then was Storm Bird; Shergar was in everyone's mind and extremely popular at that time. As such, the only winner was the bookies.
Any betting? I hope not. Otherwise, one'd have a better chance of picking the winner of a virtual race,
Any betting? I hope not. Otherwise, one'd have a better chance of picking the winner of a virtual race,
impossible123 17 Sep 23 17:43
Is this similar to "who was the best Epsom Derby winner" organised by bookies in the late 70's? The winner then was Storm Bird
Do you mean Sea Bird?
Is this similar to "who was the best Epsom Derby winner" organised by bookies in the late 70's? The winner then was Storm Bird
Do you mean Sea Bird?
Apology 'sparrow', it was Sea Bird. I lost £30 in that bookies' stitched-up. It was a lot of money then; I was also a student.
Who was the best winner of the Derby by decade since the 60's? and then do a vote off.... please forgive my poor editing/formating
50's Crepello
Golden Horn
10's Golden horn
Sea the Stars
00's Sea the Stars
Sea the Stars
80's Shergar
?? Sea the stars
90's Generous
Nijinsky
70's Nijinsky
Nijinsky
60's Sir Ivor
Sir Ivor
20's Adayar
50's Crepello
Golden Horn
10's Golden horn
Sea the Stars
00's Sea the Stars
Sea the Stars
80's Shergar
?? Sea the stars
90's Generous
Nijinsky
70's Nijinsky
Nijinsky
60's Sir Ivor
Sir Ivor
20's Adayar
Sea Bird would have beaten Sir Ivor on the bridle.
In their book A Century of Champions, John Randall and Tony Morris rated Sea-Bird the greatest racehorse of the 20th century, one pound ahead of Secretariat and two pounds ahead of Ribot and Brigadier Gerard.
In their book A Century of Champions, John Randall and Tony Morris rated Sea-Bird the greatest racehorse of the 20th century, one pound ahead of Secretariat and two pounds ahead of Ribot and Brigadier Gerard.
Kauto for me, by a nose over Dessie.
Like some others, I'm surprised Arkle isn't in the final five, but he was in the same "semi" as Red Rum.
It does interest me, but does not surprise me, that four of the five are staying chasers. Top hurdlers and two mile chasers get a lot of hype when they're around, but they don't gnaw at the heart in the same way the great stayers do. However, I'm wondering if Frankel might sneak the win, because the four others split the jumps-fan vote.
Agreeing with the OP, Denman is the weak link of the five - but his Gold Cup and his first Hennessey were awesome performances. It's a cliche to say a horse had them beaten a mile out - that day at Newbury, he did. They are both races I can watch again and again.
Like some others, I'm surprised Arkle isn't in the final five, but he was in the same "semi" as Red Rum.
It does interest me, but does not surprise me, that four of the five are staying chasers. Top hurdlers and two mile chasers get a lot of hype when they're around, but they don't gnaw at the heart in the same way the great stayers do. However, I'm wondering if Frankel might sneak the win, because the four others split the jumps-fan vote.
Agreeing with the OP, Denman is the weak link of the five - but his Gold Cup and his first Hennessey were awesome performances. It's a cliche to say a horse had them beaten a mile out - that day at Newbury, he did. They are both races I can watch again and again.
remember HF saying lester piggot assured him that denmark was better than arkle
was lester was the third bottle of something free no doubt
was lester was the third bottle of something free no doubt
The horse that put up the best performance on derby day is Troy
Storm bird was the horse who had his tail hacked by some lunatic
I see there’s a lunatic earlier on this thread however I refuse to get drawn into debates regarding frankel as it’s pointless as I know I’m right 
Think we should all take three steps back on this topic and firstly answer.......
What does the term " People's champion " mean to you.
Then we may get somewhere and sing from the same hymn sheet
What does the term " People's champion " mean to you.
Then we may get somewhere and sing from the same hymn sheet
It's a load of populist horse$hit
FACT is Persian Punch was more beloved than Frankel, Kauto Star and Denman and its a lie to suggest otherwise. I would not throw in Desert Orchid and Red Rum as clearly they were the 2 most beloved nags of last 50 years and it ain't even close. Horse Racing was not a minority sport when those 2 were at it.
FACT is Persian Punch was more beloved than Frankel, Kauto Star and Denman and its a lie to suggest otherwise. I would not throw in Desert Orchid and Red Rum as clearly they were the 2 most beloved nags of last 50 years and it ain't even close. Horse Racing was not a minority sport when those 2 were at it.
NH fans have 4 to choose from and flat fans have just one so the winner is.......
No Sea Bird, Shergar or Dancing Brave? A malformed and misinformed nomination, and only a whipper-snapper could be responsible for.
They were knocked out in earlier rounds. Appears to have been an open draw, so some heats had great horses against each other. E.g. Arkle and Shergar were in the same first round heat.
That's a shame. I hope there's no book for this. I think no Sea Bird is absurd.
Hayden
17 Sep 23 13:50
Joined: 15 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 11,143 | Blogger: Hayden's blog
In all fairness though it does depend on how you interpret the term " people "
Is it the public , maybe racing post voters or whatever else , knowing this would define the voting.
That's the million dollar question , are we voting for the same reason , i think maybe not.
17 Sep 23 13:50
Joined: 15 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 11,143 | Blogger: Hayden's blog
In all fairness though it does depend on how you interpret the term " people "
Is it the public , maybe racing post voters or whatever else , knowing this would define the voting.
That's the million dollar question , are we voting for the same reason , i think maybe not.
If the people's champion = the household general public then it's an age dependant 3 horse race , Red Rum , Tiger Roll and Desert Orchid.
If people's champion = the racing fraternity then the above three would be any price and the likes of Kauto Star , Arkle , Nijinsky and many others would be a popular vote.
Is this one of those daft voting competitions like SPOTY when personality has absolutely nothing to do with the winner , so effectively the competition's name title is incorrect.
I don't know the answer , just curious
If people's champion = the racing fraternity then the above three would be any price and the likes of Kauto Star , Arkle , Nijinsky and many others would be a popular vote.
Is this one of those daft voting competitions like SPOTY when personality has absolutely nothing to do with the winner , so effectively the competition's name title is incorrect.
I don't know the answer , just curious
Yes, seems like horse SPOTY to me.
Must dispute that Dessie would be "any price" among the horse fraternity though. Surely one of the very greatest (albeit not Arkle)?
Must dispute that Dessie would be "any price" among the horse fraternity though. Surely one of the very greatest (albeit not Arkle)?
Yes sorry strontium was trying to seperate the National heroes from the bread and butter to make a point , wouldn't be any price but would still be my 3rd choice behind Red Rum & Tiger Roll depending on age if it were a household name competition.
Undestood Hayden. I think it probably depends on your age though - Deseie was a integral part of Christmas for me when I was a teenager. "The benign grey ghost of Christmas past" as Alistair Down called him. But I get your point absolutely.
What a complete waste of time.Have the RP got nothing better to do ?
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