Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Smoky Hill
03 Sep 23 13:23
Date Joined: 19 Jun 05
| Topic/replies: 244 | Blogger: Smoky Hill's blog
Anyone old enough to remember these?...  please add your own too..

Dagmar Gitell.. Fidus Achates.. Kinmont Wallie.. Tea Fiend.. Scottish Memories.. Canonbie Lee..

Our Charger .. St. Pauli Girl.. Flying By.. Porto Bello.. Seymour.. Dondeen.. Right Royal..

..just a few..
Pause Switch to Standard View 1960's reminisce... horse racing...
Show More
Report jimnast September 3, 2023 3:16 PM BST
It’s a great track scrabbler both flat and jumps ,however I struggle to think of a track outside jcr that is worse run the silver ring you mention is totally neglected I don’t think they want racegoers in it anymore,shame really because there was once a time when all round the st leger meeting was on at least a par with the ebor meeting,now they are worlds apart ,it can’t be a coincidence that was is run exceptionally well the other is run exceptionally badly.
Report Smoky Hill September 3, 2023 3:18 PM BST
Talking of Doncaster, I think this is from 1965 maybe? a little 2yo grey filly called Patel.. she won 4 on the trot, mostly nurseries, starting at odds of 20-1, 100-8 etc.. her last win was the Princess Mary nursery at Doncaster, St. Leger meeting?.. she went off at a generous 8-1, and duly won that too..
Report scrabbler September 3, 2023 3:30 PM BST
^ Yes Smoky. I can't remember Patel ( I was only 13 at the time ) but my Timeform annual for 1965 confirms what you say. However, I do remember my Dad backing Old Tom in the Lincoln that year - the first year the race was run on Town Moor.
Report differentdrum September 3, 2023 3:51 PM BST
Poulakerry was a very big top class pointer/hunter chaser in his prime who ended up being difficult to keep sound. He won a John Corbett  Cup and was second in the 1971 Cheltenham Foxhunters beating the likes of Credit Call and Bullocks Horn. He also had a verdict over the talented, but fragile, Black Baize. Good ground was his bag, and he had 5 course wins at Wincanton.

A bit later, but does anyone know what happened to a couple of Bob Turnell chasers, Arctic Bow, and Balinese, both progressing nicely in the early 70's and then nothing?
Report driver2 September 3, 2023 3:55 PM BST
1967, that was the year that was! I was 23 years old and ended the season with £1500 in the bank and a nice wedge in my pocket. The highlight of the year was taking a week off work (I was earning £22 a week) to go to the Epsom Derby meeting with my lovely gf. I was all in on Royal Palace and Charlottown and was so far in front going into the last day that we decided to get there early and hit the champagne bar. We ordered a bottle of Bolly and it was Absolutely Fabulous, so good that we had to have another bottle. This could have ended in disaster, I didn't know wtf I was doing, but the bartender, who I tipped well, gave me a couple of John Sutcliffe's handicappers and I wasn't that p1ssed not to know that Epsom was Sutcliffe's hunting ground. Anyway, they both won and I finished up £300 in front on the week + I was holding a betting slip for doubles and treble. Royal Palace, Charlottown and Spectre for the Greyhound Derby, so I booked a table in the restaurant at the White City (my favourite dog track) Spectre looked all over the winner from his ideal trap 6, But his litter brother Tric Trac wasn't stopping and many said that Spectre didn't want to pass his brother, cost me around £700
So what did I do with the money? Well, I bought a brand new convertible Triumph Vitesse 2 litre for £900 and booked a 2 week holiday to Torremolinos for me and the gf. I got nicked for driving at 90 in a 30mph limit in Stratford a week after I bought the car and was banned for 18 months(for the 3rd time), me and the gf split up, but still went on holiday together, she met a load of Welsh blokes and I fell A over T for this incredibly beautiful Swedish girl and even went to Stockholm to see her a couple of months later, that was just about the end of 1967, gone but not forgotten.
Thanks for the idea Smoky, great thread. Hope you weren't too bored.
Report differentdrum September 3, 2023 3:58 PM BST
St Pauli Girl was the dam of Major Thompson (Snailwell Stud) who showed promise as a novice hurdler, but didn't go on. A rare jumps winner for Brigadier Gerard.
Report onlooker September 3, 2023 4:44 PM BST
Bloody hell - driver2 - That was some summer  Happy

You forgot to add that you were only 16 - but had a forged Driving Licence - and so got away with the under-age driving bit.
Report sparrow September 3, 2023 4:45 PM BST
Report Smoky Hill September 3, 2023 4:45 PM BST
driver2.. not at all, great to read.. I remember Charlottetown.  I think he was trained at Lewes, near the old racecourse. I took a walk around there some years ago.

£22 a week in 1967 seems a fortune to me. My weekly wage then was £4.12s.6d, but I'm a bit younger than you.
Report Smoky Hill September 3, 2023 5:00 PM BST the way driver, I hope you remember Dolores Rocket !..
Report onlooker September 3, 2023 5:20 PM BST
Charlottown - Derby Winner 1966 - was indeed trained at Lewes -- (no doubt forum poster - blackbarn - will join us later to expand more - as the Lewes area is his stomping ground)

The CHARLOTTOWN story as several twists to it.

Charlottown was trained, at Lewes, as a 2-yr-old by 'Towser' GOSDEN -- John Gosden's father.

However - 'Towser' Gosden retired at the end of 1965, due to failing health - and Gordon Smyth (who was Private Trainer to the Duke of Norfolk, at Arundel) then came to Lewes to train from there - and thus train Charlottown to Win the 1966 Derby - ridden by Australian Scobie Breasley - after regular rider (fellow Australian) Ron Hutchinson had been 'jocked off'

GORDON SMYTH's move from ARUNDEL - left the door open to - John DUNLOP (who had been assistant at Arundel) to become the incumbent Private Trainer to the Duke of Norfolk (the Queen's Representative at Ascot)  - an  we all know how ARUNDEL developed from there, in the decades to com.
Report salmon spray September 3, 2023 5:46 PM BST
Canonbie Lee ran as a hopeless outsider in Mill House's Gold Cup.
Report salmon spray September 3, 2023 7:15 PM BST
Scottish Memories was one of the not so many horses in those days who swapped between hurdles and chases. He was up to running well in big handicaps but specialised in winning small condition races. Was trained in theory by Arhur Thomas when in England,but in reality that was a base for an Irish trainer whose name will probably come to me in the next month or so.
Report CagliariG September 3, 2023 7:33 PM BST
Before my time your Scottish Memories SS but there was one of the same name trained by Noel Meade late 90s early o's, could there be a connection there?

The Dams sire btw was Salmon Leap.
Report TommyWestofLanark September 3, 2023 7:57 PM BST
Smoky Hill.Yes I remember most of your list
Onlooker. Why did you have to remind me of Charlottown.I still shudder when I remember his St Leger defeat 1966.
Salmon Spray. I think the Irish trainer you mean was Paddy Sleator.
Later on Arthur Thomas set up a satelite stable at Lanark (I think).
Report driver2 September 4, 2023 1:33 AM BST
Back in the late 60's I used to be a regular at Wimbledon Smokey, I kept the books for a wig maker in the West End and he had a couple of dogs, notably No Chips, who won the Holiday Stakes at West Ham 3 times. I believe he still holds the 500 hurdles track record there, which stood when they closed the stadium. I never saw Dolores Rocket run as I'd stopped going to Wimbledon by the time she appeared.
Report happysandwich September 4, 2023 7:04 AM BST
Remember backing a horse called Icanopit. at Hurst Park.
When I put the bet on I pronounced it  - I san opit
The bookmaker smiled at me and said I Can Hoppit.

Funny how things like that stick in your mind.
Report Smoky Hill September 4, 2023 12:06 PM BST
Bit before my time that one I think.. great name though..

Thanks for all the tidbits and tales.

don't suppose anyone remembers a grey gelding, hurdler, called Hopeful Lad?.. used to tear off in front, 20 lengths clear, and often stayed there..  ran up a sequence.. That's all I can remember..
Report sageform September 4, 2023 2:00 PM BST
I saw Pink Gem in the flesh at Newmarket with L Piggott riding. I didn't attend flat meetings much but some friends had a horse running so we made the long haul from Gloucestershire. Their horse was Polyandrist who won a few races, initially trained by Dick Perryman and then Ryan Price. She became quite a broodmare. Trigamy, Philogyny, Cornuto were three of hers. Cornuto was one of very few horses that carried on racing while standing at Stud. Anyone with old stud books will find plenty more from the family. Cuckolder who won at the Festival for John Rogerson and Bob Turnell was a brother of Polyandrist. I remember most of the names from the OP. Right Royal was a high class French horse from memory.
Report Smoky Hill September 4, 2023 2:32 PM BST
This 1 minute old film, in French, is the 1961 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.. showing Italian champion Molvedo collaring Winston Churchill's front running High Hat, who led most of the way.. white socks.. Right Royal V got up for 2nd and Misti IV pipped High Hat for 3rd..

4 great horses of the time who ran in, or won, just about everything..
Report ribero1 September 4, 2023 2:37 PM BST
Didn't Right Royal and St Paddy cross swords a few times?
Report Smoky Hill September 4, 2023 2:57 PM BST
St. Paddy was Noel Murless's Derby and Leger winner the year before, 1960.. Right Royal beat him in the King George in '61..  I'm not sure, but in that French link I put above, St. Paddy might be the 5th horse home in the Arc, but I can't remember and it's not stated..

He beat W Churchill's other famous horse Vienna a couple of times.. he also beat another old favourite of mine in the Eclipse, called Proud Chieftain.. I was upset about that.
Report ribero1 September 4, 2023 3:03 PM BST
A bit before my time but I was very keen and used to get all the sporting annuals and in some racing was covered pretty well and St paddy was just about the first horse I read about.
Report ged September 4, 2023 4:52 PM BST
St Paddy didn't run in the Arc. He beat High Hat in the Jockey Club Stakes easily a week before. The horse in 5th might have been Match III. The other 2 English horses in the race, Just Great (Piggott) and Tenacity (Breasley) finished 10th and 18th. St Paddy had one more run as a 4yo, and was disappointing in the Champion Stakes.
Report ged September 4, 2023 6:43 PM BST
Yes, it was Match in 5th. (The suffix varies, depending on when and where the horse is referenced).

Here's a link to a Sports Illustrated article written after the race, which includes a description of the race, and lists the first 5 finishers. It's very american, as you'd expect, and the in-running doesn't tally up that well with what actually happened.
Report ged September 4, 2023 6:46 PM BST
Match came over and won the KG&QE the following year. Right Royal beat him into 2nd in both the Lupin and French Derby as a 3yo.
Report DrGordons September 4, 2023 6:58 PM BST
St Pauli girl second in the Guineas, second in the Oaks, second at Royal Ascot. Beautiful chestnut filly. Watched her win at Epsom from Tattenham hill in August. Worth the drive.
Report Smoky Hill September 4, 2023 7:16 PM BST
Great that you saw St. Pauli Girl, I remember her, flashy chestnut as you say. I so wanted her to win the Oaks.

ged.. interesting article. Very observant of a French official, still rings true today.
"When the Russians figure they can win the Arc they'll invite themselves," which is the way they operate.

I remember Match, or Match III as I remember him.  Much made in the article of Kelso, the great American horse, but Match did beat him in the Washington Intl.

That was one great Arc in '61 and it's often overlooked.

I wasn't sure about St. Paddy but thinking back now, I'm not sure Noel Murless ever had a runner in the race. I can't recall any.
Report Cardinal Scott September 4, 2023 7:24 PM BST
ON YT you can view The Queen visiting Stockton racecourse, though no racing took place that day I don't think.
Report ged September 5, 2023 9:58 AM BST
Murless did run Aunt Edith in the Arc, but I'm not sure he had any others. She went off fav in 1966, but finished 8th. The ground was very bad that year. He also had the american horse Hill Rise entered in the race that year until a couple of days before, but took him out because of the ground. The owner wasn't pleased, as he had travelled to Paris to see him run, and had sent him to Murless that year (as a 5yo) with the main aim of running in the race.

Busted was due to run in the race in 1967, but injured himself on the gallops not long before. Hopeful Venture was expected to run in 1968, but disappointed in his prep race in the Prix Foy (then the Prix Henri Foy).

The Russians did have a runner in the Arc, but they picked a bad year. They had Anilin in Sea-Bird's year. He actually ran well, and made much of the running, probably at too fast a pace, but still finished 5th, I think.
Report September 5, 2023 10:25 AM BST
Busted won the Prix Foy, an Arc trial very easily and may have won the big one but for injury.
Report driver2 September 5, 2023 11:54 AM BST
Ged, Hopeful Venture won the Prix Foy but was subsequently disqualified by the frogs. I believe that the Queen didn't want him to return to Longchamp as she was understandably furious. So was I, I had 40 quid on it.
Report Brian September 5, 2023 12:15 PM BST
So many from the 60s. One that spring straight into mind are Nicholas Silver, Freddie, Arkle, Mill House, Snowdra Queen, Baulking Green, Saucy Kit, Persian War, Major Rose, Santa Claus, Hethersett, Larkspur, Boismoss, ......
Report sparrow September 5, 2023 12:20 PM BST
Remember all of those Brian but so many more we could mention too.
Report sparrow September 5, 2023 12:23 PM BST
I've still not recovered from the 1965 Derby when I had backed I Say at 33/1 and taking a couple of lengths lead only to see Sea Bird come cantering up behind and run away with the race.Sad
Report sparrow September 5, 2023 12:25 PM BST
Report Hayden September 5, 2023 12:28 PM BST
Always admired your memory sparrow as a different level to mine but glad i've not got your recovery rate , 58 years is a long time  Grin
Report driver2 September 5, 2023 12:28 PM BST
I had a similar experience in 1968, I backed Connaught, but then along came the great Sir Ivor
Report sparrow September 5, 2023 12:30 PM BST
Hayden, Ask me about more recent races and I find I have completely forgotten.Grin
Report sparrow September 5, 2023 12:31 PM BST
Sea Bird for me was the greatest I have seen.
Report ged September 5, 2023 1:13 PM BST
@driver2 - that was the Prix Henry Delamarre the year before, when he was a 3yo. He beat In Command (Harvey Leader/Brian Taylor) 3/4 length with the rest 5 lengths back, but had interfered badly with his rival half way up the straight. The French behaved honorably and didn't sound the klaxon (it was the Queen's first runner in France), and the horse got a great reception, but then Brian Taylor objected and got the race.

In the Foy, he went off 2nd fav, but finished last of 9. He wasn't the same horse that he'd been in the Grand Prix de St Cloud, where he'd beaten Vaguely Noble.
Report driver2 September 5, 2023 2:08 PM BST
Thanks ged, I stand corrected.
Report happysandwich September 5, 2023 2:28 PM BST
05 Sep 23 12:31
20 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 51,285 | Blogger: sparrow's blog

Sea Bird for me was the greatest I have seen.

You would with an handle like yours.Laugh
Report Smoky Hill September 5, 2023 2:32 PM BST
I remember all our horses Brian but would struggle to associate Boismoss with anything, but the name does ring a bell.  Good call that one I think.  Remember old Sempervivum? I used to follow him.

Yes Anilin the great Russian campaigner, ran some good races, all over the place.  They also sent over Reljef and Griffel for the Grand National, neither got very far though.  I wanted them to do well.

Thanks for info on Murless's runners, I didn't know that.
Report Hayden September 5, 2023 2:38 PM BST
Vague recollection of Boismoss in the Cesarewitch and maybe Ernie Johnson riding ?

Pure back of head memory though and could be a mile out.

Ged ?
Report driver2 September 5, 2023 3:12 PM BST
Report driver2 September 5, 2023 3:25 PM BST
I should have mentioned, the previous post relates to Boismoss
Report Hayden September 5, 2023 3:32 PM BST
Cheers driver   Happy
Report ged September 5, 2023 3:55 PM BST
But for Boismoss, Ryan Price would have won the Cesarewitch 4 times with his first 4 runners in the race. He'd already won it in 1963 with Utrillo, and 1966 with Persian Lancer (an 8yo who hadn't won for 4 years). In 1967, he told everyone beforehand that he would win it again with Major Rose, provided he could beat Boismoss. It turned out he couldn't. Major Rose had 8-0, Boismoss 7-3, down to 7-0 with Johnson's claim. Major Rose was 2nd, but won it in 1968 with 9-4. Major Rose had been with George Todd to start with, but the owner got fed up with the horse not being off, and took him away, sending him first to Keith Piggott, and then to Price. Todd liked to spend years getting to know his horses thoroughly before landing gambles with them.
Report sparrow September 5, 2023 4:01 PM BST
Ryan Price will always be remembered for that era and who could forget Hill House and Rosyth.
Report Sica Dan September 5, 2023 9:28 PM BST
Taj Dewan being short-headed by Royal Palace, the French insisted they were robbed
Report kevo September 5, 2023 10:04 PM BST
Antiar, Makaldar and Frenchman's Cove.
Report lockup September 5, 2023 10:52 PM BST
Prince De Galle's winning the Cambridgeshire back to back one of my first ever winning bets.
Report driver2 September 6, 2023 12:25 AM BST
You forgot Le Vermontois sparrow, it absolutely bolted up in the 1966 Schweppes
Report Brian September 6, 2023 1:54 PM BST
I remember Boismoss for purely mercenary reasons as I backed it to win the Cesarwitch on the day of my cousin's wedding and , inspired by a few beers, shared my optimism so I was quite popular for a few hours Grin.

Major Rose was also a favourite of mine but didn't do the forecast! If I recall corectly Major Rose went on to be owned by Des O'Connor!
Report .Marksman. September 6, 2023 4:16 PM BST
Very early memory of horse racing in the media:
Occasionally the Chester Chronicle had colour pics on the front page.  They had one after Major Rose won the Chester Cup.  I had yet to visit a racecourse, and what impressed me was the way the horses were strung out like washing almost to the home turn.  Though the camera angle probably added to this impression.
(I'd long forgotten this until I saw the name Major Rose on this thread.)
Report ribero1 September 6, 2023 4:26 PM BST
Wasn't Major Rose owned by Ken Wheldon? seem to think he was a colourful character who was football club chairman?
Report ged September 6, 2023 4:52 PM BST
Bob Heaton owned Major Rose until he was sold at the Doncaster sales in 1969, for 16,000gns, when the horse was 7. Ken Wheldon then owned him until he was sold 2 years later at the same sales for 3,000gns to Des O'Connor. He then ran in the Doncaster Cup for O'Connor, but wasn't in the first 3 of 5, to Rock Roi. I'm not sure he ran again.
Report Brian September 6, 2023 5:24 PM BST
After Des O'Connor sold him , he was owned by a partnership. He went, as a 12-y-o I think, to Catterick for a moderate flat race (first for the partnership) but threw his jockey and was withdrawn. A previous owner (which could have been Bob Heaton) was so dismayed to see this great horse at this level, he paid the partnership what they had spent him on to presumably let him retire gracefully.
Report Brian September 6, 2023 5:24 PM BST
After Des O'Connor sold him , he was owned by a partnership. He went, as a 12-y-o I think, to Catterick for a moderate flat race (first for the partnership) but threw his jockey and was withdrawn. A previous owner (which could have been Bob Heaton) was so dismayed to see this great horse at this level, he paid the partnership what they had spent him on to presumably let him retire gracefully.
Report Brian September 6, 2023 5:24 PM BST
After Des O'Connor sold him , he was owned by a partnership. He went, as a 12-y-o I think, to Catterick for a moderate flat race (first for the partnership) but threw his jockey and was withdrawn. A previous owner (which could have been Bob Heaton) was so dismayed to see this great horse at this level, he paid the partnership what they had spent him on to presumably let him retire gracefully.
Report ged September 6, 2023 5:51 PM BST
Yes, I didn't look hard enough. He did run in the Champion Hurdle trial at Wolverhampton as a 10yo for O'Connor, who had him with Denis Rayson. He finished 3rd in that to Coral Diver, but didn't have much behind him. He then seems to deteriorate fairly quickly, and appears for Steve Nesbitt, in the ownership of a Mr B Johnson - he did manage a 2nd of 7 in an ordinary Beverley handicap over 2 miles at 25/1, in July '72.
Report ribero1 September 7, 2023 11:42 AM BST
16k for a 7 y o in 69 was certainly not insignificant.
Report DonegalPrince September 7, 2023 1:18 PM BST
My Dad told me that a horse called Owen Anthony was running in a big race in or around the early/mid 60's and that he would divert part of my birthday present to 3d ew on it in a big race (my name is Anthony). Winnings to accrue to me ; losses to be deducted from the (very small) pot for my birthday/Xmas present. My recollection is that it won...anyway I got a goldfish (whom I named Dixie after William Ralph Dean),  a fishbowl, a little castle to go in the bowl ,a small net (for taking Dixie out and cleaning the water) ; and some fish food.  Lord knows what race it won. Did Owen Anthony win a decent race?
Report driver2 September 7, 2023 1:39 PM BST
Maybe it won the Schweppes Goldfish Trophy
Report Smoky Hill September 7, 2023 1:43 PM BST
I remember Owen Anthony, he won the City and Suburban at Epsom.  I think of him more as a Hunt Cup / Cambridgeshire type, he was placed in those races..
Perhaps the Epsom race is the one that applies to your bet? this was early 70's.
Report DrGordons September 7, 2023 1:53 PM BST
Owen Anthony trained by GT Brooke won three races in 66 and nothing in 67. When did he win City & Sub?
Report driver2 September 7, 2023 1:56 PM BST
Report driver2 September 7, 2023 1:59 PM BST
You could have had another goldfish in 1984 DP
Report DonegalPrince September 7, 2023 1:59 PM BST
feel certain it would have been in 1966 then. By 1972 I was late teens and punting anyway myself with £ from my saturday morning job. Have you any idea what he won DrG?
Report sparrow September 7, 2023 1:59 PM BST
1972    Owen Anthony    8    T. McKeown    Douglas Smith    Mr A. Samuel
Report driver2 September 7, 2023 2:00 PM BST
Report sparrow September 7, 2023 2:00 PM BST
Above from list of winners in wikipedia
Report DrGordons September 7, 2023 2:04 PM BST
Spot on Sparrow. Thought he'd retired by then.
Report sparrow September 7, 2023 2:26 PM BST
8 year old then DrGordons.
Report ged September 7, 2023 2:55 PM BST
Owen Anthony won the first race of the 1968 flat season (as a 4yo) - the apprentice race that traditionally used to start the season. He was 10-1 jt fav.

It was Doug Smith's first runner as a trainer. He had previously won on the horse as a jockey.
Report ged September 7, 2023 2:59 PM BST
That 16,000gns for Major Rose was then a record for a NH horse in training.

Ken Wheldon bought Stalbridge Colonist not long after, and put him with Vernon Cross, with whom he had horses at the time. Previously he had horses with Eric Cousins, and they won the 1961 Lincoln with Johns Court.

Wheldon took over Walsall FC in 1972, then tried to take over Wolves when they were in dire straits, and then Birmingham FC in 1985.
Report DrGordons September 7, 2023 3:02 PM BST
Looking at this period I always wonder what Lester thought of his decision to split with Murless. If he'd stayed in 67 he'd have won the 100gns, 2000gns, Derby, Eclipse and King George plus many others. One big consolation was getting aboard Sir Ivor.
Report driver2 September 10, 2023 8:16 AM BST
I doubt whether he would have won the Eclipse, he'd surely have been on Fleet.
Report MythWA September 10, 2023 11:43 AM BST
I remember the early fast 2 yr olds running up sequences before the better ones came out at R Ascot.
Flying By Fast Track Reet Lass Chico Sky Gypsy Green Park Falcon Greengage any more?
Report Smoky Hill September 10, 2023 1:28 PM BST

I remember most of those.. loved Greengage, I think she won the Rank Organisation Stakes at Ascot, which was a good race back in the day for fillies.

You might remember View Mistress, northern 2yo ran up a sequence of very wide margin wins - much like Asadna at Ripon this year - before the Queen Mary where she was outclassed.  Timeform should known better than to rate Asadna so highly, it smacks of inexperience if you ask me.

View Mistress went on to be the dam of top French sprinter Girl Friend.

I mentioned Summer Day earlier, she won at least 6 on the trot in '62. Races weren't very competitive in those days.
Report sparrow September 10, 2023 1:49 PM BST
I have in the mists of my memory a recall of a 2 year old called Westclox running up a sequence in the 60s. Anyone else rememember that one?
Report Smoky Hill September 10, 2023 2:10 PM BST
Yes, good call.  Westclox won I think at least 8 or 9.. when we recall those like Provideo, Nagwa and Timeless Times, nobody remembers Westclox.  All small races, can't remember who trained her.  1965.
Report sparrow September 10, 2023 2:44 PM BST
That's the thing I couldn't weigh up smoky as the horse never gets mentioned these days just the three others that we all remember. Can't recall who trained it though.
Report sparrow September 10, 2023 2:46 PM BST
Hopefully ged can remind us of the name of the trainer.
Report Hayden September 10, 2023 2:58 PM BST
Sparrow asked the same question 13 yrs ago , not looked if anyone gave an answer.

17 Aug 10 19:29
Joined: 20 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 51,346 | Blogger: sparrow's blog
Anyone remember another 2 year old who set up a large sequence of wins in the 60s called Westclox.
Report differentdrum September 10, 2023 3:10 PM BST
Before my time, but probably the reason Westclox is not so well remembered is that she only won her first four races. Timeform 94 and trained by Ken Cundell. She looks quite a tall filly in the picture, not an obvious sprinter, at least to my eyes.
Report sparrow September 10, 2023 3:11 PM BST
Yes I did hayden in 2010 just the 13 years ago but nobody mentioned the horse at all. So just smoky and I remember Westclox it seems.
Report sparrow September 10, 2023 3:13 PM BST
Yes Ken Cundell but I thought she won more than that, but in my defence it was 58 years ago.
Report Hayden September 10, 2023 3:16 PM BST
A 58 year gap has never bothered you before sparrow  Grin
Report sparrow September 10, 2023 3:20 PM BST
If only, hayden. Plain
Report Smoky Hill September 10, 2023 3:47 PM BST
Well I thought it was a lot more than 4 wins, but now you come to say, it does ring a bell that.  Not in the O'Gorman league after all.
Report ged September 10, 2023 6:48 PM BST
I'm surprised Westclox doesn't get mentioned on the Jockeypedia page for George Turner, who rode her to all her 4 wins, claiming 5, and was apprenticed to Ken Cundell.

Chris Pitt's piece mentions that he hit double figures for the first time in 1965, with 11 winners, winning 3 on From Russia With Love (another 2yo filly of Cundell's), but doesn't say that he won 4 on Westclox that year.
Report Smoky Hill September 10, 2023 7:11 PM BST
From Russia With Love was another of those fast early fillies that couldn't cope when upped in class in the Queen Mary, the year Visp beat Procession by half a length.. Visp never ran again that year and finished down the field in the 1000G, and later Coronation Stakes..

FRWL later became a 6f filly, and I remember seeing her on black and white t.v. at Newbury in the days when summer interference was commonplace.  Could hardly see the race, just hear Peter O'Sullevan's commentary and not much else.  She finished 2nd I think, not sure of the race, this would be 1966.
Report sparrow September 10, 2023 7:16 PM BST
Thanks, ged. Poor neglected Westclox it seems.
Report onlooker September 14, 2023 6:00 PM BST
You may have noticed that a horse named - DOUBLE JUMP - Won the closing race at Doncaster, today.

For those who wish to reminisce the original DOUBLE JUMP...

The best horse Jeremy Tree trained for Engelhard was Double Jump, the champion two-year-old of 1964.

-and - a 'must read' ...

Obituary: Jeremy Tree

Tuesday 09 March 1993

Jeremy Tree, racehorse trainer - born London 21 December 1925, died 7 March 1993.

JEREMY TREE, the trainer of four English Classic winners, will be remembered as the personification of a racing aristocrat. His relaxed style and personality fitted snugly into the immediate post- war world of racing, when the sport was much more of an intimate hobby for the rich than it is today.

Yet Tree's links with horse racing were distant. His father, Ronald Tree, was a Tory MP during the Thirties and Forties, and did much to foster Anglo-American relations; his mother, Nancy Field, was an heiress of the Marshall Field American department-store fortune and a niece, like the actress Joyce Grenfell, of the MP Nancy Astor.

It was while he was a schoolboy at Eton that Jeremy Tree's interest in racing grew from regular visits to the Astors' thoroughbred studs. He became further drawn to the sport when his uncle Peter Beatty won the 1938 Derby with Bois Roussel, and when Beatty committed suicide in 1949 Tree inherited his bloodstock. At the time he was assistant trainer to Dick Warden, in Newmarket, after serving with the Life Guards for four years and enduring two unstimulating years in the City.

Tree's early attempts to carve a career in racing were scuppered by his father. 'You must be mad,' Tree was told. 'We are in 1947 with a Labour government and there will be no rich people. Nobody will be able to afford racehorses, it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.'

Despite that warning, Tree set up on his own account in Newmarket in 1952 and a year later moved to the Beckhampton stables, near Marlborough, Wiltshire, where two great trainers, Fred Darling and Sir Noel Murless, had previously trained.

From the start, Tree practised as a 'traditional' trainer, strictly following his own maxim: 'Be choosy, if possible, with your owners.' His ability to pick out the best owners easily matched his ability to spot talented horses.
One of the first owners outside the collection of friends he trained for was Monica Sheriffe, a long-time patron best known as the owner of the leading sprinter Sharpo, who won the first of three successive William Hill Sprint Championships in 1980.

Appropriately for a man who descended from Anglo-American families on both sides, Tree counted as his patrons wealthy American owners like the platinum magnate Charles Engelhard, for whom Vincent O'Brien trained the Triple Crown winner Nijinsky.
The best horse Tree trained for Engelhard was Double Jump, the champion two-year-old of 1964.
Another American owner, Jock Whitney, gave Tree his first Classic winner in 1963 when Only For Life was a shock 33-1 winner of the 2,000 Guineas. His next two Classic winners, the Oaks winners Juliette Marny (1975) and Scintillate (1979), were both out of the same dam, Set Free, and were owned and bred by the Morrison family.

In the same year as Scintillate's Oaks, Tree trained his first important winners for the Saudi prince Khalid Abdullah. They were Abeer, in the Queen Mary Stakes at Royal Ascot, and Known Fact, in the Middle Park Stakes, one of Britain's leading two-year-old races.
Mr Abdullah, as he is registered in British racecards, was on the verge of expanding his string, and Tree became his principal trainer.

The following year, the pair won the 2,000 Guineas with Known Fact, but in controversial circumstances as the brilliant French colt Nureyev, who finished first past the post, was disqualified for interference. Ironically, it was the disqualification of another French horse, Sagace, in 1985, which gave Abdullah and Tree victory in another of Europe's biggest races, the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe at Longchamp, with Rainbow Quest.

Despite being Abdullah's main trainer, Tree was typically forthright enough to express concern about the 'quite alarming', ever burgeoning involvement of wealthy Arab owners. That comment was one of a series which signalled a degree of the disillusionment Tree felt with racing. When he announced his retirement in 1989 he reflected: 'Racing is a good deal less fun than it used to be. It has become huge, rather impersonal and not as friendly.'

The following year Tree suffered a mild stroke and was not at Epsom to see his successor and long-time assistant Roger Charlton saddle Abdullah's Quest for Fame to win the Derby. Four days earlier Charlton had won the French Derby for the same owner with Sanglamore.

'I didn't think I had left him with any top-class horses,' Tree quipped with the same insouciance which spared him grief when a yearling he rejected, Dancing Brave, went on to take the 2,000 Guineas, King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes and Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in 1986 for another of Abdullah's trainers, Guy Harwood.

Since his retirement, Tree had been troubled by ill-health. He continued to live at Beckhampton and had his own office at the racing stables, but little involvement with the day-to-day training of the horses. He rarely went racing.

Jeremy Tree was one of the 'old-guard' trainers who had little interest in the modern-day hustle of the increasingly commercialised sport of racing.
Report Smoky Hill September 14, 2023 6:39 PM BST
Interesting.  I remember both Double Jump and Only For Life.  I once met Jeremy Tree, briefly, in a racing bookshop in Shepherd Market, London.  I was getting a biography of Lester Piggott signed by the author, when I realised he was standing next to me.  Quite a short, stocky man if I recall correctly, superior and haughty, smoking a cigar.  He looked but I don't think we spoke.
Report sparrow September 14, 2023 6:43 PM BST
Top class sprinter Double Jump.
Report blackbarn September 14, 2023 6:49 PM BST
Sparrow, DJ more of a top class 2yo!  Jimmy Lindley told me the best 2yo he ever rode, and before you ask, best horse he ever rode was Aggressor, and he rode some good ones. .
Report sparrow September 14, 2023 7:24 PM BST
Yes blackbarn, I thought afterwards I might have got his distances wrong.
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.


Instance ID: 13539