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Affordability Checks - one almighty mess
Affordability Checks - one almighty mess
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Replies: 178
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^ Beaten
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If AC was independently done eg by a qualified body governed by FCA code of conduct, and not by bookies, I'd be willing to pay a one-time £10 for the service.
Just take the bookies out of the equation, the issue is no longer. It's so simple!! |
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nice one duffy
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The bookies are toxic - plain and simple - just like their crack cocaine casino games which are generating the bulk of their profits. Take away fobt AC is no longer necessary for the majority of customers.
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how about the bookies are forced to disclose how many accounts each have restricted to buttons or shut down.
would be a major fkng embarrassment and might open a few eyes at the absolutely useless GC |
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Freedom of choice no more sadly…..
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A typical win/loss scenario (betfair only)... if my account was suspended when showing an unacceptable loss, say 100 points... what should I do to get money back, especially when it could all turn around in the next race???
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impossible123 • August 16, 2023 6:40 PM BST
The bookies are toxic - plain and simple - just like their crack cocaine casino games which are generating the bulk of their profits. I wish people would stop using stupid analogies like comparing crack cocaine addiction with people who play casino games What casino games do is allow people to lose money more quickly than other forms of gambling and are easily accessible and easy to understand. Probably the small proportion of gambling addicts in the country would just lose their money more slowly if casino games didnt exist the rationale for updating our outdated gambling laws was the increase in online betting but the fundamental flaw in the white paper is not separating out sports betting from casino games |
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Agree rothko - but the fact is they have separated them to some extent though, in ignoring some of the casino play!! - you don't have to fill out an AC if you go and stick all your mortgage money into one of the bookies stupid machines, do you??
THAT is the craziness of this all. But the bookies should be well aware, if ACs succeed in ruining normal sports betting/trading, then their precious machines, and all gambling in shops, will be next in line - which is basically their business gone. |
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Bookies did not disagree or even try to distance themselves from that analogy ie casino games are the crack cocaine of gambling in high street or online bookies. The repetitiveness of the casino games eg a spin every few secs (not minutes) for a satke amounting to many £ in a min or hour; the crack cocaine of high street and online gambling have brought us to where we are at present.
Does anyone think if this crack cocaine of gambling is not available in the high street or online AC would be subject to every horseracing punter or in existence at present in the UK? Does anyone think the bookies can continue to operate these crack cocaine/highly addictive gaming machines in the high street and online under the same betting/gaming licence to horseracing? Does anyone think there should not be a clear distinction between these addictive machines and horseracing? I'd like a representative from the bookies to publicly comment on these. |
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Ofc most if not all believe there should be a distinction between those games and sports betting.
But the notion of doing something about it came from people other than bookies, who themselves could have seen a distinct difference but lamentably decided to not separate them. So blame is with them. If bookies overstepped the mark they would be little different to all other enterprise who ‘butt the line’ of acceptability (everyone else would call it opportunism) This attack on gambling is just that, by people who perhaps never gamble, have no care about impact and non for proper redemption for them who refuse to stop themselves. |
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I’m sick to death of hearing about minority’s afflictions that require root and branch reform to try and tackle them (and no doubt fail miserably)
The vast majority arn’t victims of these nasty bookies, and those who are the drop outs in society oft come out with nonsense like ‘my truth’ Fck ‘your truth’ why not just ‘truth’? |
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What a long winded consultation that was, same questions recycled over and over trying to get the result they want. A good barrister could rip that consultation to shreds, plus it's open to multi abuse and it's discriminatory.
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Dustbin.
You seem very clued up about things can I ask your thoughts on entain share price.down another 4% today. |
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I sold all stocks about 18months ago, I’m waiting to acquire property next when the arse drops out the market.
Knowall your man. Though I did read the American market shedding losers and consolidating. Fox bet latest to go tits up. |
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Dustybin.
Thank you for taking time to reply. Ronnie. |
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My experience with people I have known who are addicts is that managing their own addictive personalities is what brings results rather than trying to restrict access to the products they are buying - obviously all gambling products are highly addictive to an addict like all alcoholic drinks to an reformed alcoholic
Addicts are addicts all their life and need to seek help if they need it to manage their addiction. Only when they accept and take responsibility will progress be made. |
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Affordability checks are already firmly in place with Betfair & enforced zealously being more draconian than what the govt proposes.
The horse has bolted long ago. I'm sick of seeing all these articles & consultations etc as if we are still talking a about a theoretical situation. ***AFFORDABILITY CHECKS ARE ALREADY HERE*** |
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'rotho', I accept your arguments. However, bookies need to take responsibility too, more so than the addicts themselves, why? We're all wired up differently susceptible to various addictions eg gambling/playing computer games/binging/social media, etc. And, gaming machines have been designed specifically to stir up interest for the player; incessant playing can lead to addiction.
Also, these days one cannot hide from the betting adverts. They are everywhere eg mobile, laptop, terrestrial tv, etc, day time, night time. These adverts even come on during the break of a movie; some are sponsors too. I occasionally succumb eg check my laptop for an update here. The repeated fines imposed on bookies is clear evidence the bookies have been irresponsible and not acting in accordance with the terms and conditions of their license to operate. This cannot and must not be allowed to proceed unchecked. |
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stu 17 Aug 23 12:30
But the bookies should be well aware, if ACs succeed in ruining normal sports betting/trading, then their precious machines, and all gambling in shops, will be next in line - which is basically their business gone. Excellent point, because once the swathe of so called problem gamblers have been culled but the problem still exists, the naive Govt by a simple process of elimination will eventually see where the real problem lies. The books need to be forced to show the % of casino punters vs sportsbook players targeted. It won't be their business gone though because one of the reason the books can afford to be so casual through all this is because they are looking to America that can more than make up for the losses over here. |
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The main irony of calling those machines ‘the crack cocaine of gambling’, is that a large proportion of the money put through them, came from people who earned it either selling crack or cocaine.
I’m sure a few addicts got caught up playing them, though to a lot of people, they were basically just money laundering machines. Cleaning up dirty money from illegal activities, giving the government a tax avenue they otherwise wouldn’t have had. Lowering the stakes on them did nothing to help addicts, addicts play for lower stakes anyway as they want it to last longer. Those playing £100 a spin were probably just cleaning money. Most of the proper slot fiend addicts play online, where again, lowering the stake, or increasing the spin time does nothing for their problem, just ensures that they get to play for longer. |
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Why is fobt not in shops in Ireland? Do the Irish know something we do not? Horseracing and its community are mega in Ireland.
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Irish regulations for betting shops don't permit fobts, as I understand it.
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Fobts are not specifically targeted with these regulations proposed here in the UK… they are targeting all non specific gambling online.
So what difference does moaning about fobts do? And while we at it, many countries have banned or blocked exchanges, yet plenty use them appropriately here. Should they be banned also? |
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The Irish regulators deserve the utmost respect for not giving the go ahead to the FOBT's.
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We're moaning about fobt's because we think that the decision to not target them is wrong, that's the whole point isn't it, that's how you affect change, otherwise why moan about anything, just accept what is.
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That is just stating the obvious, it’s moved so far beyond that point they are irrelevant.
When a person’s wins by any means are potentially discounted disproportionately from all gambling activity, it’s pretty damn pointless saying how bad fobts are. They ain’t listening about specifics, it’s those who thought it was all fair game and that they’d obviously see sense are the ones who have betrayed non problem gamblers. |
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The connection to the chance/casino type gaming, is that it should be the main target, if they want to tackle problem gambling.
But, it is the reverse, and those forms are being LESS targeted than other forms of gambling, via ACs. |
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i.e. the focus should be taken away from our standard forms of betting, such as racing, and back to these harmful forms.
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How many here ever had an online slots habit or fobt addiction?
How many having told bookies to stop sending free offers then got more free offers from regulated orgs? |
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That message can be passed back via this consultation.
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In my youth, sadly now a distant memory, I did go through a period of slot machine play that could prob have been called borderline addiction.
I look back at it now and boggle how I thought it was a good idea. |
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I used to put loads in bandits in pubs and clubs
But they were different anyway and not what they are referring to now by slots and fobts |
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They’ve already targeted the FOBTs. That’s how all this started.
The anti gambling campaigners considered getting the stakes lowered on those machines a massive victory. They still celebrate it. However, the reality is that lowering the stakes and the number of machines per shop did absolutely nothing to help addicts. The machines are all still there, and the problem moved online, just as they were told it would. People either play the games online, or just play for longer in the shops. In the white paper, it was announced that bingo halls are now allowed to fill their floors with these higher staking machines. After all we have been told about how dangerous and addictive they are, for some reason, it is a good idea to have even more of them where people go to play a mostly harmless game of bingo. It’s almost as if they are trying to create more addicts. And what’s more, is that all the campaigners from the original FOBT campaign have said absolutely nothing about this. As the title of this thread says, it’s one almighty mess. All the measures being brought in do absolutely nothing to reduce gambling harm or help addicts. They just stop non addicts from betting, impede on their freedom of choice, and make them give up their private financial data, all for no gain. It also destroys horse racing and its funding, again, all for nothing. |
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When I was a young lad down the local Workingman's Club with my pap I used to be addicted to playing the old 5p 10p bandits with the pears, plums, oranges, cherries, melons, bars and bells . Four reels and if you ever got two of the same symbols in the middle you'd hope that you'd get a chance to hold them because often another would drop in on reel 1 or 4 and sometimes both
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Was also a very keen fruit machine player in my youth, though I believe I grew up in a golden age of fruit machines. Pink panther, monopoly, the Simpson’s, Monte Carlo or bust, road hog, only fools n horses, viz, eastenders, coronation street and loads more.
They were nothing like the FOBTs of today though, they were usually 5p a spin, or 10 p max. I remember when the machines changed a bit and went to 25 p a spin, that was a bit rich for my liking. 4 spins for a quid felt like a total rip off. Could never have imagined putting a note into a fruit machine back then! |
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They did target some aspects of FOBTs yes - but are not considering these ACs for them now - they should be, if they were serious about problem gambling.
While at the same time, forget targeting other less harmful types of gambling, not purely based on chance. |
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Showground material should be stripped from all shops and online noise and flashing material should be 10 Bob a poke,5 max per day.
They are they cause of this cr@p… |
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A former landlady of mine when I was a student was ballistic with bookies letting her son play the fruit machines. She'd go to every bookie in Sutton and give out a leaflet with the boy's picture.
Her boy was so embarrassed and furious he burnt down her garage. Now, the boy (a man) is an eminent barrister. |
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They put them in the shops not long after the exchange was born…
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