spread betting.....SPREADEX

Bustino

I’ve yet to meet anyone who made spread betting pay be very careful.

The best thing that can happen to you here is you lose

i know that to be honest.....i needed another account.....they do fixed betting as well

If you must spread bet play with paper for a month and get the feel of all the potential scenario's , chances are after a month you'll never get round to playing with real money.

The guys who set the spreads are far more savvy than traditional bookmakers and the spreads are amended far quicker than odds change , spread compilers are generally extremely proactive as opposed to the reactionary actions of traditional bookmakers.


Good luck mate 

bustino.
I know a guy who may have a holy grail for spread betting, drop Gaze733 a pm on here, he may be able to help you out

Very well put indeed hayden I would also add the spreads are bigger than they appear.

why are ewe getting involved when you dont know the scenarios?

bustino

Where are you getting your - "Maximum 70" from - in this - apparent - 80-40-30-25-20-15-10-5-0 Market?

If you have Bought Shenk at 41 - and he Wins - Then you Win 29 Points X your Stake ... which you say is '2 Units' - so your Profit is 58 Points on our Bet.

If he Finishes 2nd - You Lose 1x your Stake - as the Make-Up for2nd Place is 40 - and you bought at 41

If he Finishes 8th - The Make-Up is 5 - so you Lose 36 times your Stake

Any Finish Worse than 8th - and you Lose the Lot = 41 times your Stake.

Not sure where you are getting - "if he finishes 50th i lose 20." - from  ...unless you have put some kind of 'Stop/Loss' on the bet... and sacrificed the 80 Win for - "Maximum 70" - Win ... in Return for - Only Lose 20 instead of 41 scenario.

That is a mere Guess - as I cannot see Spreadex, or any other Spread Betting firm being so philanthropic.

Stop/Losses would be more appropriate in 'Open-Ended' Markets - such as Cricket Runs etc.

^ The inevitable typo - when dealing with these kind of numbers 


'If you have Bought Shenk at 41 - and he Wins - Then you Win [b]39 Points X your Stake ... which you say is '2 Units'

I played around with Sporting Index in the 2000s - my impression was the spreads were well-priced and too large for any easy trading profit.

Anecdotally, exploiting the rare mis-priced ricks was a very fast way to have one's account shut down.

The spread firms back then always boasted the didn’t close accounts or restrict bets providing the funds were there

They Closed mine - jimnast - 28 years ago ...

After I bought my Football Teams (Final League Table) Points at 56 in November -  for £150 per Point

They went on to Win the League with 98 Points

41 x £150 Profit = £6,150 Profit = ..... End of Account.

SCHENK

John Deere Classic  -  FPs (Max 70)
06/07/2023

BUY $2.00 @ 41

Cash Out susp

Onlooker that is my receipt the 80-40-20-10
market is different and from my recollection schenk was 20 -23 in that market........my understang is if i finish 40th or better i win .......the worst sceanario he missses the cut and i lose 60.......if he wins i win 80

I would have to see that Market on THEIR screen to get a grasp of what it covers etc

My  - ' 80-40-30-25-20-15-10-5 '  Prices   (for 1st = 80 > 8th = 5)  are from their  'TOURNAMENT WINNER BETTING' Market

Looks like you may have Bet into a Different Market...maybe a Fixed Prices on just 4 Places - that is Not Displayed on their site now - as (your) Market is NOT an 'InPlay' Market - But Closed at the Start of the Tournament.

Just trying to work out some reason for the discrepancies with the 'OUTRIGHT WINNER' Market - that is LIVE, now. 

Can you post a LINK to the Market that you have bet on, please.

https://www.spreadex.com/sports/en-GB/spread-betting/golf/john-deere-classic...

its not in-play.......for me i normally play 1 golfer at the start, normally on bf i will lay off my stake and ....at the end of each day review the situ.
im just testing the water to see if any alternatives its a minimum bet for me .....beleive me i wont lose alot to find out.....i do quite well with my golf as it is.
Not fond of that 80 - 40 - 20 market

Bustino - I think you may have made a mistake here. You have bought his finishing position, therefore, you want him to do badly. If he wins you will lose (41-1)=40 x $2 = $80.

If he finishes 70th you will win (70-41)=29 x $2 = $58.

Bustino,
I think you may have made a mistake here. You have bought his finishing position, therefore, you have bet on him to do badly.

For clarification - Whatever the Market.

I am sorry - But you are an absolute Mile out with your assumption ... "my understanding is if i finish 40th or better i win" 

You are confusing the Market MAKE-UP Prices as being the  Actual Finishing Places  - You WISH 

Spreadex would be out of business in Seconds were that the case. 


The '40' in the - 80-40-20-10 line is [b]NOT the Player's Finishing Positions ... Not by a country mile.

80-40-20-10 are the 'MAKE-UP PRICES allotted to the Finishing Positions - THUS ..

1st Place = Make-Up Price of 80
2nd Place = Make-Up Price of 40

You have BOUGHT at 41 ... So if SHENK WINS the Tournament - You WIN 39 Points  - (80 - Minus the 41 you bought at)

If Shenk Finishes 2nd - You LOSE  1 Point - Because ...

You BOUGHT at 41 - but ONLY 40 is awarded to 2nd Place - so 41 - MINUS 40 = MINUS 1.

Shenk finishes 'out of the (Market)  Frame' - and you LOSE 41 Points/Stakes

That is how it works in the 'TORNAMENT WINNER' Market - THE Biggest Market by far.


Somehow - It looks like you have bet into a 'First Places only' Market' - As there are Only 4 MAKE-UP Prices quoted - as opposed to the normal/usual 8 Places in the Main Market.

It looks like this/your Market may also be LOCKED once the Tournament starts - unless you can furnish a (Live) LINK to it, please. ... otherwise - 'batting blind'

Thankfully your Stake is only $2

Interesting, and well-sussed out, SEER - The 'missing Market'  - an 'Upside Down' version of the more regular 'Winner' Market... To which I am alluding to in the above explanation -

If only bustino had posted the Market Title - would have saved a lot of typing.

Thank you......im more confused then when i posted first.....i will post my profit/loss monday regards bet.....its hany have an xtra account but they are tardy to put up fixed prices......i miss my wh account lol

surely no-one misses a WH account

Good morning onlooker

Nothing tricky about that bet yet still closed for been right.

I never even realised spread betting was around the last time Bolton had a good season

Spread betting is lethal - nearly finished me for good when I took it up in the 90s when it first came around, and a couple of times in later years when I dabbled on sports spread betting (wrongly).

Stick to straight odds, staking, and avoid all credit betting (which they often offer).

As others suggest, they restrict when you find a market or two that you actually win on, but will give you anything you want on poor prices and large spreads offered, often hoping you overstake (as is very easy in spread betting).

In summary my advice to all is avoid spread betting like the plague.

jimnast

only been to Bolton once, i went with my late brother probably around 25 year ago or more, we went to see spurs playing a cup match one evening.

in the away end the view was that bad you couldn't see the whole pitch, had a spread bet sold Bolton performance, Teddy scored after 5, thought here we go Ronnie finally score spurs 1 Bolton 5

Good morning Ronnie hope your well

That sounds like burden park you went to going of the timescale,teddy was and still is a great favourite of mine he scored my 2 nd favourite goal ever .

A familiar story stu

And a very wise summary

Yep mate - I know people who were truly ruined by spread betting, much worse than I was.

Spread betting on Finishing Positions (Max 70).
Sports spread betting on Finishing Positions (Max 70) is an exhilarating and exciting alternative to traditional fixed odds betting, offering many different and unique ways to bet on your favourite sport.
Our range of Finishing Positions (Max 70) spread betting markets
This Golf event takes place at 15:55 on 08/07/2023. Some of our more popular spread betting markets for Finishing Positions (Max 70) include Leaderboard, Finishing Positions, Live Index, Players Under Par, Winning Score, Lowest Round and Player Match Bets.
How does spread betting on Finishing Positions (Max 70) work?
Well, we will put out a prediction or ‘spread’ of what the Spreadex traders think will happen across a variety of different scenarios. You buy on the spread if you think the outcome will be higher than the prediction or sell on the spread if you think it will be lower.
How does spread betting on Finishing Positions (Max 70) differ from fixed odds betting?
With traditional fixed odds betting you are always risking a fixed amount for a set return.
But when you place a spread bet on Finishing Positions (Max 70), the more right you are, the more multiples of your stake you can win. However, get the bet wrong and you can lose multiples of your stake.
How can I find out more about spread betting on Finishing Positions (Max 70)?
Our 'Get Started' pages offer detailed descriptions of different markets plus examples and explanations of different Golf spread bets. Find out more here.
Spread betting and fixed odds betting on Finishing Positions (Max 70)
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i Think SEER is spot on my cash out is minus 60......Still confused thought i was backing him to finish better then 41st....this ac being consigned to history lol

Given the market has a max make up of 70, I think you have played the max finishing position market and not he tournament leaderboard market.

By buying at 41, you are predicting that Schenk will finish worse than 41st place.  The max make up is their artificial cut line.  All players who miss the cut are awarded 70 points regardless if they finish 120th for example.  All players making the cut are settled at their finishing position.

If Schenk wins the tournament then he will make up 1 and you will lose 40x your stake.

Way back in 1998, I had one if the first two books published on Spread Betting. I had been following financial spread betting since mid 1980's when it emerged and then sports s[read betting since early 1990's.

As many other posters have said, the spread traders are very smart and, in many ways, that has been why spread betting has never really rivaled traditional odds. Quite simply, most spreads are so close to where a reasonable judge would put them there is usually no advantage in playing.

But there are a couple of things to note:

1/ In my book, there is a formula to convert spreads to traditional odds - it is complex but worth doing as a check whether a spread is accurate. Trouble is, my book is long out of print save for second hand sites! And I am not putting the formula on here because it is too long to type out.

2/ If there is any value on spreads, it usually lies on the Sell side because most spread punters hate the more uncertain nature of the sell liability. For example, if you sell the winning margins at a six-race meeting on a 15-17 length spread, the make up could be anything and so a sell at 15 feels more risky than a buy at 17. With a buy at 17, the most you could lose in if all six races are won by a nose - so you would lose all but 17 times your stake. Now, think about it if you have done a sell at 15 - you don't know what the maximum distances could be.

In my view, it is incredibly hard to make it pay with spread betting but here is one tip that has worked for me from time to time. Let's use winning distances again. Suppose you buy at 17 and the first two races are won by 6 lengths and 8 lengths. The fresh spread will be pushed up and it will be likely that you could then sell higher than you bought. Now, selling out at that point means you suffer the 'margin' of the bookie twice (once at the buy and once at the sell) but nobody ever got poor taking a profit and the times, for example, winning distances even out to close to the original spread are numerous. So, whatever the bet, if you have ever bought or sold and early on things go very much in your favour, either cut out or at least cover your stake.

To end, the above example is just an example. Please do not start posting from instances where cutting out early would have cost a punter huge amounts - like buying Brian Lara's runs in cricket when he hit over 400, something a well known spread bettor was said to have done. Good luck to anyone who hits it big like that but the majority need to relaise that, overall, the reversion to the mean is common place.

The Knight.
Spoke to a well known spread bettor who bet on cricket only a couple of weeks ago i asked him how are the spreads going he said i have packed them in.
Hope you are well
Ronnie.

Despite spread betting nearly ruining me, I had a few markets that I could win consistently on - when they got shut down allowing me only a couple of quid profit it was game over for me.

The difference between markets was laughable - I'd get 'trader restricted' to a couple of quid on x market, go onto something like a football market and I could have 10's of thousands...

Find an edge they will shut it.

Use the spread which is well informed, to then go and bet on BF handicap bets or over under bets for inst England First innings. At least these are even money ish bets so it wont wipe you out . I managed to see a spread of England to reach 225 / 230 on spread but it was evens less than 260 on bet 365 yesterday.

Coincidentally the inventor of spread betting Jonathan sparke died last week surprisingly the first index firm was coral index backed by joe coral ,coral index couldn’t make it pay so city index was formed in 1983.

Jul 8, 2023 -- 2:19PM, stu wrote:

Despite spread betting nearly ruining me, I had a few markets that I could win consistently on - when they got shut down allowing me only a couple of quid profit it was game over for me.The difference between markets was laughable - I'd get 'trader restricted' to a couple of quid on x market, go onto something like a football market and I could have 10's of thousands...Find an edge they will shut it.

Stu, do you mean back in the day, when you could get good spreads on winning distance markets in soft ground?

Remember, years ago, you could Lay NON runners on Bet fair if you were in the know. And there was no non runner money back years ago. So punters lost their money. It was like finding money in the street.

Which life was that in ?

Jul 9, 2023 -- 8:45AM, jimnast wrote:

Which life was that in ?

I know this, because Tony Calvin talked about it in a latest podcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eytY1dfQ48

Well he must be wrong

I found a neat little Bet on the Spread Betting in the mid-late 1990s - when the Premier League had only been going for around 3 Seasons.

In those early years there were nearly always 8 x 3:00pm Saturday kick-offs  (in the days before  SKY TV Lunchtime and Tea-Time kick-Off games) - Sky just had the 2 Sunday games ...
- Unlike  nowadays, where if you play in the newly created Europa League on a Thursday, then you automatically play your next Premier League match on Sundays.

That meant most Saturdays those 8 matches were played in unison.

One of the Spread Betting Firms devised a Market .... 'Time of the first Goal in ANY of the Saturday Afternoon Premier League Matches'

Dependent upon whether most of the Top/more free-scoring teams were playing at Home or not, the Spread was pitched on average at around 7-9 or 8-10

Bare in mind .... This was in the days when Football was not as fast now - The ball was not as light as now - meaning swerving shots, and lofted Goals in from 25 yards - by athletic players from all over the world-Now scoring unbelievable goals from ridiculous angles

Now - That Spread meant that if you Bought at the 9 or 10 Minutes - You knew just what your Maximum Downside/Loss could be (ie - a First minute goal) ... But your Upside/Profit remained Open-ended

So - If the First Goal was scored on 5 minutes - your Downside/Loss was only 4 points (had you bought at 9) - But ...
How many goals are scored in the first 5 minutes of a game? (not that many)

Whereas - How many matches are still 0-0 at Half-Time.... somewhat superfluous, by contrast - as it only needed a Goal in Any game to nullify the 0-0 Half-Time example/quote ... I am sure you get my drift, though.

To me the Downside was really quite Shallow - But you only had the get to 10 minutes without a Goal ... and you were left 'ticking off the minutes' of your OPEN-ENDED Upside/Profit.

True you would get caught with a 5 minute goal one week - meaning a 4 or 5 point Loss ... and other weeks a couple of 8 or 9 minutes first Goals  =  meaning 'dead-rubbers' (as - Bet neither Wins or Loses, being settled in the middle of the Spread)

The converse, though, was that you would also get 3 weeks of (average 15 minute first goal (say 12 mins one week, 18 mins another, and an actual 15 minutes one week.

Over 6 weeks that gave you one 4 or 5 Points Loss week - Set against 3 winning weeks of 6 or 5 Points ...

Meaning an overall 15 Points PROFIT over the 6 weekends..... at £60 a point - 26 years ago.

^  Slight , not fully explained, typo there - as I tried to combine differing weeks as an Average  ...

A Lower scenario - Lose 5 pts - and Win 15 - should, of course, read + 10 pts overall

However - you could easily get - Lose 4 pts - Win 18 (3x6) = + 14 ... and so on (variable)

Stu, do you mean back in the day, when you could get good spreads on winning distance markets in soft ground?

@Trident - I had a few markets where I could gain an edge, some back in the earlier days and some more recent in history.

You are right that distances, and linked to going sometimes, were one of those areas earlier on, though they tightened it up gradually on those markets.

But, I have some specialist markets also that were not directly sports markets (i.e. specials markets away from sport) where I had some clear edges over their markets, sometimes massive edges over their traders - maybe naively I earned some big profits from those markets, and sometimes too lumpy - so they just began sending all those trades from me to traders, then the inevitable 'You can have 1 pound per point max' started to happen on those markets.

I could have carried on back to the horse markets (about the only sport market I could sometimes win over their prices), but other sports markets I found were very difficult, and with no good markets left really I gave it up entirely.

That Tony Calvin comment (about 2002ish) is 4 mins into the 3rd video of the 5 btw

Jimnast.you asked iff I was well sad to say in Durham hospital  had a stroke Ronnie.

Jimnast.you asked iff I was well sad to say in Durham hospital  had a stroke Ronnie.

Jimnast.you asked iff I was well sad to say in Durham hospital  had a stroke Ronnie.

Sorry to read that Ronnie, listen to your doctors and start taking things easy.Best wishes and get well soon.

THANKS LADS FOR YOUR HELP..............SEER WAS SPOT ON IT WAS A FIRST PLACE MARKET..........MY BAD FOR MY 2 UNITS I LOST 63 QUID.....

IF I HAD BET THE LEADERBOARD MARKET ( 80_40_20-10) for finishing 4th @ 22.5 I WOULD HAVE MADE ABOUT 32 FOR FINISHING 4TH

IT DOSENT MATTER ITS BRUTAL ODDS TOTALLY SKEWED TOWARDS THE HOUSE WITH HUGE DOWNSIDE

THIS ACCOUNT IS CONSIGNED FOR THE RUBBISH BIN ..............THANKS AGAIN TO ALL THAT HELPED....ONLOOKER /STU THE KNIGHT SEER ETC.

LOOKING FORWARD TO NEWMARKET THE WEEKEND SOME NICE RACING..........WIMBLEDON.........SCOTTISH OPEN.......ITS ALL GOOD REALLY

Sorry to hear that Ronnie, hope things work out for you Glasgow.

Sorry to read that Ronnie, get well soon.

get well soon ronnie

best wishes Ronnie - you have always come across as one of the gentlemen on here.

Think that's a good decision bustino

All the best Ronnie too.

Good morning Ronnie

Really sorry to read your not well hopefully you will be up and about for the judmonte meeting at York I know how much the fixture means to you.

Take care Ronnie

Longbridge

I met Ronnie at the Dante meeting for the first time he really is a gentleman

Never knowingly met you Ronnie but your posts are excellent . Hope you get well soon-retire if you can afford to but if not, no more solo 13 hour days, please.

thanks jimnast

Ronnie wishing you a speedy recovery

Ronnie,

Sorry to read your news, hope you're getting well treated in Durham hospital and make a speedy recovery.

I'm hopeless at giving advice on health, but one of my close friends at Saab suffered the same several years ago. Came out of hospital, looked reasonably well considering, so he decided to go back to work after 2 weeks, against his doctors opinion. A few months later he was back in after another stroke, this time much more serious, even though he survived (with issues).

As already stated, take all the time off you need for a full recovery and listen to the doctors.

Waiting for a scan this afternoon  to see if I need surgery. Thank you all for your very kind wordsRonnie.

Get well soon Ronnie, hope the scan is a positive one then you can work on your recovery slowly.

gl ronaldo

So sorry to hear that Ronnie, fingers crossed for this afternoon, take care and a speedy recovery

Thank you for all your get well wishes.a lovely stake awaits tonight. Thank you Durham  for your kind hospitality.Regards a very grateful  Ronnie.

Get well soon

Yep get well soon

Best of luck Ronnie

Sorry to hear that news Ronnie, hope you make a speedy recovery.

Ronnie, so sorry to hear you have had an health issue. Get well, ASAP.

Wish I'd known you and Jimnast were meeting at the Dante 3 days. As long term sensible posters and clearly lovers of racing, like me, it would have been great to meet you both. And then I would have had someone to moan to about the most amazingly stupid binocular-bag search I was put through there on the second of the three days.

Something went badly wrong and it ended with William Darby himself sending me a personal apology on the Friday and inviting my wife and I for dinner at the first day of the June meeting. Well played York over how they apologised, but they also had the MD of the security company who have worked for York since 1983, call me the following week.

What she told me about some of the racetrack security being forced upon the tracks by local police authorities made my blood run cold - and she could not go into too much detail either! Suffice to say, we are much closer to a police state with the government telling us what we can and cannot do than I ever realized. Perhaps one day I will get to meet you and Jimnast on track and I will give you the full story - you will be astonished, guaranteed!

Didn't know that Sprake had just died. There is a really old black and white film (might be a St Trinian's one) where Wilfred Hyde-White's character is in hospital and he offers a spread to his visitor about the time the matron will do her 'lights-out' round that night!! I am sure it was a late 1950's film, so the concept has clearly existed for some time. 

Also, who recalls when sports spread betting was becoming popular in early to mid-1990's, a big spreads bookie offering a spread in seconds about the time which would elapse before the first throw in at the forthcoming FA Cup final? They got well and truly filled in by offering a spread way too high, but the ball was lamped into touch within seconds of kick-off anyway. It looked pretty deliberate and a lot of sellers of the spread made good money as a result!!! We never saw spreads on throw-ins again.

Lastly, this is a true story I think I've told on here before. For some mad reason, back in 1995 I bought the number of Tory seats the Tory government would win at the next general election (which had to be in 1997 at the latest).

Of course, Blair stormed to victory in 1997 and I did a good couple of grand I really could not afford to lose. BUT what made it worse was September 1997 when Raceform and I visited Sporting Index to try to have them sponsor my spread betting book.

After lunch, they took us round the dealing floor and I fell into a conversation with a dealer about my very damaging general election bet. He laughed and said 'I hate to tell you this but I was on duty that night. At around half past midnight a real high rolling client came in and bought the Tory seat total despite the bad early results. A rumour got around out there, fuelled by some stock markets traders who were playing spreads through the night, that the Tories would still pull it off and so we adjusted our spread in case we were about to be hammered. It only lasted for a few minutes but in that brief window you could have got out of your bet with a small profit!'.

Of course, thinking I was going to take a hiding I'd gone to bed early resigned to my fate!!! I still shudder at my lack of awareness that fateful night to this very day.

Sorry, SPARKE, not Sprake!!

The Knight -

The Manager of the Football Team who - 'Kicked the ball out for a THROW-IN' - straight from the Kick -Off was ....

- Yes - You've guessed it ........ None other that Harry Redknapp.

Probably used his brother-in-law, and former teammate, Frank Lampard's Account - along with Milan Mandaic (as something of a taster for the later - ''Next Portsmouth Manager' market - rape of Betfair

Good morning the knight

A friend of mine was also pulled by security at Chester as to what on earth he was doing with binoculars on a racecourse,

Great to hear william Darby handled it.

Mind you...I had to make a fuss! It wasn't so much the bins he questioned.

He took everything out of my bag - cap, pen, keys, racecourse badges and membership cards.

As you will know, the guards are not meant to touch possessions or put their hand in a bag - not least of all because they could then be accused of planting something. If they want to see in a bag, they must ask the owner to remove the items in it.

This incident was so over the top and the explanations given vastly differed between the afternoon itself and the next morning. I suspect I had worked out the truth of the incident and when I voiced it they all became desperate for it not to become public.....hence the apology and the call from the security firm's MD! I will never know for sure, though!

Get well soon Ronnie.

You are deffo one of the good guys.

Take care.

Many thanks for all the good wishes

have to admit it was pretty scary, i was working away on Sunday pressed a button on the till and felt a pain shoot up my arm, then all off a sudden I was tingling all over, thought i had an electric shock, got to the hospital saw a nurse who said its tendinitis and wanted to give me paracetamol, take my advice if you attend a hospital and you are not happy with the reply refuse to leave and get a second opinion

i waited another 5 hours to see a doctor who did bloods wasnt happy with them so did an ecg, chest x-ray and head ct scan, within minutes i was being blue lighted to Durham, thank god i didn't go home with paracetamol.

got another head scan yesterday and they said if the bleed has stopped and the bloods flowing you can go home, if not we will be operating straight awaythankfully it was all okay and i am back home resting for the next 4 weeks.

the other half has refused to let me go to York on Friday/Saturday, says she will drill the doors shut if i try so i guess i will have to wait till Ebor,

thanks again everyone

Ronnie

Scary story that Ronnie 

Best of luck mate 

Wishing  you a  speedy  recovery  Ronnie