For some reason I thought Dollar Bae was stepping up in trip today. She wasn't, but she clearly needs to. It was another wasted run today trying to produce a gear she doesn't possess.

Itso Fury got the job done, but couldn't have had a better set up with the the two dangers getting racing much too early. I suspect it is going be a hard job to complete the hat trick.

Two runners for Fitri Hay at Exeter tomorrow.

I couldn't find any footage of Also Known As, but you would imagine it would be a surprise if he turned over a Persian War runner up (even if it was a poor renewal) and a promising bumper/hurdle winner. He is related to plenty of winners, but nothing outstanding in the recent history.

Betty's Banjo won nicely at Uttoxter, but couldn't cope with the drop in trip at the same track. She looks pretty straightforward, and going back up in trip is a positive, but for win purposes I just wonder if she has a few pounds too many against several possible lurkers.

Elsewhere bit surprised that American Mike is starting over an extended trip. Surely they don't see him as an Albert Bartlett horse? It would seem to be a bit early to be running scared of Facile Vega. The Mare's Grade 3 looks very competitive. I like Carrigmoorna Queen, but I doubt she is tomorrow's horse. I do think Fil Dor has a good chance of turning over Pied Piper, but much will depend on how Russell juggles the pace. Elliott will no doubt be hoping that Better Days Ahead is more impressive than Demandrivingdouvan who didn't look quite the full shilling up the straight at Thurles today.

No surprise that Also Known As wasn't good enough, but that was dismal from Betty's Banjo. She stopped as if shot. Totally unfit, or problem? Does O'Neill ever give an indication of why they ran badly?

The loose horse was a bit of menace in the novice hurdle, but Outlaw Peter made very short work of the opposition, and looks to be on the improve. Not so sure the same applies to American Mike, in fact I would be asking what's gone wrong? Last year Elliott/Codd were happy to talk him up as the second coming. Now all of a sudden he looks slow and ponderous. He probably only won today because the second horse didn't get home. I would rip up any Ballymore tickets. I certainly wouldn't give up on Carrigmoorna Queen ending up better than today's opposition. She was simply outpaced over an inadequate trip. Better Days Ahead ended up another bumper dud for Elliott.

Will be having a glance at 200,000 purchase Fortunate Soldier in the opener at Aintree tomorrow, but other than that my main focus will be on the Breeders Cup.

Copper Coin runs in the novice hurdle at Ffos Las. He looked slow in his bumpers so much so they actually made the running with him. Trip and ground should suit today, but I suspect he may well find a couple too good. I would sooner take the 4/1 Gladiatus than the 3/1 Copper Coin. Gladiatus ran with some promise before giving best at Chepstow. Surely Williams can't be treating everything as a win something three years down the line project? The favourite is short on the basis Honeyball will be expected to have him ready after the absence.

A couple of stayers running in the shorter novice hurdle. I wonder if the testing ground will enable them to get away with it against the ex-Flat horse? If that horse can jump I would have my doubts.

Will be looking out for Big Fish in the last at Sandown. I suspect he will want better ground, but the stable have run the odd decent one in a Sandown bumper. Presumably, he will be ridden to finish off.

Small loss, but enjoyed the Breeders Cup again. Just three winners and no places. Finding the each-ways was very hard. It was frustrating being on the likes of Order Of Australia at 28/1 and Broome at 18/1 then seeing the price tumble for no reward. In hindsight it was a poor decision to have opposed the Europeans on the first day. Next year I will probably wait until the draw and extra places before betting.

'Out of nowhere' -

Jonjo Wins the last at Ffos Las - with Blue Shark - 'a million to one' chance (by his standards) ...

- and - blind-sides everyone - including this Thread.

Indeed - differentdrum

I looked at the race - admittedly in no great detail, as it looked like a - 'nothing can win this race', race.

Did not even watch the race - and only on checking the Result, later - and Blue Shark's Form (to - like you - try and establish where that Win has 'come from') - saw this, form 3 outings ago .... riddden by the Son, of course - 50/1 opened 33/1

(jockey said, regarding running and riding, that his instructions were to ride handy and give gelding a good sight of his hurdles but not to use his whip as he is a fractious sort that needs cajoling;
he added that he was pleased by the way gelding handled the preliminaries and, once racing, settled well into the race and was able to sit mid-division, 6 or 7l off the leaders; however, when they picked up the pace halfway round the final bend he was unable to go with them and gelding came off the bridle making a mistake at the penultimate flight;
jockey maintained that gelding had no more to give down the home straight and therefore kept hold of his head to get him across the line and was only just able to maintain 4th position;  - (beaten 40 lengths)
he further added that, in his opinion, gelding felt weak and tired on today's good to soft ground but he considered that, once the gelding had strengthened up, he might be able to handle it better as well as benefitting from a longer trip) (op 33/1)
-----------

It handled the Soft ground OK, today.

10/1 out to odds between 20/1 and 25/1  when Opening Show came out at 16:12/16:13 - according to irishracing.con Betting Movements

He is rarely interviewed, for obvious reasons. The thing I have most difficulty with is the difference between how he was lauded by the public as a jockey, and all they get back now is the grin vacuum. All the secrecy does nothing to promote the sport. He makes Stoute look like an open book.   

There is similar horse entered at Hereford tomorrow, upped in trip with first time cheekpieces. I doubt that will be 20/1.

The previously referred to Berties Bandana a non runner.

Henry Gondoff fleetingly showed some talent as a novice hurdler, but things very quickly went pear-shaped. Only the stable will know if they tinkered with anything, but this looks a very difficult task for his return. Not much to say about On The Bandwagon other than if this one wins the explanation will be interesting.

On The Bandwagon 10/1-4/1. Perhaps it's one of those morining moves that fizzles out on track, or maybe some people think Jonjo has his script ready? Last 5 runs on good ground having not shown that much on a couple of tries on softer ground.

Merveillo taken out so no runners today.

Not a bad card at Bangor despite the non runners.

I liked Le Milos last year, so much so I backed him for the Kim Muir. He was very disappointing at Doncaster. Recent chase wins at Exeter and Sandown. Is Bangor going to suit? You would think this should suit Grumpy Charley, but trainer and jock hardly in form.

The last is a decent race, but the market is all over Saint Palais.

Highland Getaway runs in the opener at Market Rasen tomorrow. I am not that keen on Getaway's but this is from the very good Girseach line that has thrown up numerous high class winners, notably for Twiston-Davies. JP has bought into it with less success so given the stable connection he might have looked at this one. The favourite is going to be hard to beat, but given the pedigree you can see why the first quote of 14/1 with Bet 365 was taken.

A couple of ex-pointers have been punted in the longer novice, but I will be keeping an eye on the long absent Sinurita who clearly must have had problems since making her point debut two years ago. She was well beaten, but the impressive winner of that race has gone on to be very successful. Over at Taunton it will be interesting to see if Ooh Betty can step up on her reappearance when she travelled like a winner before stopping to nothing.

The 3 Mile Novice hurdle at Cheltenham in December will tell them if they have a genuine Albert Bartlett contender.

This thread has turned into you rambling on and getting things completely wrong along with plenty of aftertiming. What exactly is the point of this thread, Drum?

Highland Getaway was clearly learning on the job today. If you backed him each-way you might be a bit miffed that he didn't learn quickly enough, and was beaten by a couple of rags. He should be better next time, but the form probably amounts to very little as it was a one-horse race. In the second race Sinurita was a late gamble 40/1-9/1, but having taken a scenic trip, quickly stopped to nothing. Presumably, unfit by about a half a mile. Not good when you are returning from a two year lay off. Over at Taunton Ooh Betty was also supported 10/1-11/2, but backers never had a prayer of collecting. She was always out of her ground under a shocking ride from Ben Jones. 

The Ballymore Novices looks the most interesting race on an average Cheltenham card tomorrow. It will be disappointing if Mullins can mop this up with one of his third division. At the moment I think Collectors Dream at 9/1 (three places) with Bet 365 looks the value. I am hoping he is better than the bare form of his hurdling debut when he was ridden for a change of pace over the minimum trip. I expect him to travel well, and it will be question of whether he is good enough in the straight. Hermes Allen won an ordinary race at Stratford looking a thorough stayer in the process. I liked him, but he might be better over further. Earlier on the card I would have thought that The Glancing Queen should have every chance in the handicap chase. Her first time record is very good, but she is relatively weak in the market, and I hardly ever get the King stable right.

WP

I don't really want to clutter things, but you have got something wrong, and now you are just resorting to having a pointless pop at the thread. It's typical of yourself and the forum in general. If you don't like the thread that's fine, I couldn't give a monkeys either way.

What is a fact is that there have been well over 5,000 views. I think that makes it relatively popular. Perhaps that's your problem? Perhaps some people actually enjoy what you refer to as rambling?

Another quiet day for the stable tomorrow with just Yes Indeed at Wetherby. A bit of Grade 1 form in France, but nothing in three starts since the switch. No reported tweeks and guesswork as to whether this is a workable mark. No market support as yet, and you would think that a clean round is the priority. 

As for today both The Glancing Queen and Collectors Item were beaten almost from the start. The Glancing Queen lined up in a reasonable position, but her jumping quickly took her backwards, and the fences looked a real effort throughout. Presumably, they will go up in trip, but you couldn't be confident after what was probably her worst ever performance. Collectors Item ran as if he had been dropped in trip, outpaced and slow at the flights throughout. The only surprise was that he actually ended up running past a couple. The market told the story 9/1-4/1-9/1. Hard to believe that dire effort was just a ground issue, but I would assume it's back to the drawing board and try and win another novice over this trip under a penalty. 

Hermes Allen won very nicely, and the further he went the better he looked. I would have him nailed on as an Albert Bartlett type, but most of the top novices seem to avoid that race. Hopefully, they might consider the Bobs Worth route. It's going to be harder to gallop better horses into the ground over the intermediate trip. I couldn't understand why some analysts were talking about bringing him back in trip. If he really has so much speed why make the running? 

Mullins couldn't win that race, but I suspect he might be up to winning the last tomorrow. Good to see him giving Bryony Frost the ride. It isn't going to win, but I will keeping an eye on Love At Sea. The sire has made a very good start with just a handful of runners, but this one has a huge penalty to carry.

Over at Naas another couple of potentially useful mares, Ashroe Diamond and Halka Du Tabert, should top and tail the card.

More farcical stuff with flights omitted due to the low sun. Navan started their card nearly an hour an a half earlier couldn't Cheltenham have done exactly the same with what was only a six race card.

Springwell Bay didn't jump well enough even with the flights omitted, and was also exposed for a gear at that trip. I should imagine it's up in trip, and dropped in class next time.

It's a funny old game quite often where jocks are concerned. Twiston-Davies had dreadful rounds yesterday on Stolen Silver, and again today on Fantastikas. Both beaten favourites. Then after a shambles at the start he goes on to land the Greatwood. Even in that race he lost a couple of lengths at the first. Harbour Lake was badly outpaced in that race, but should resume winning ways upped in trip. Perhaps with a return for the Coral Cup down the line.

Over in Ireland 'Bob was back' or was he, in fact was he ever there in the first place? Along with Envoi Allen and Samcro, he has been one of the biggest hype horses in recent years. Today he was turned over by 28/1 shot having stuck his head in the air, and found next to nothing off the bridle. I am happy to watch him do it as you can go penniless following horses who display those sort of traits.

Yet another reverse for Elliott and short price takers in the bumper.

Few more runners for O'Neill tomorrow.

Toute Chic is probably the first horse they have had for the Kendricks. Kendrick gets no outside rides for good reason, and this filly will need to show massive improvement on her stable debut to be competitive in this race.

Hungry Hill got too far behind on his bumper debut, and was ultimately outpaced in a slowly run race. The three who beat him have all won races since. It is a surprise to see him start at the minimum, albeit on a stiff track. Even so I would expect this to be too sharp a test, and a staying on fifth or sixth would seem the most likely outcome.

Came From Nothing is an interesting debutant in the bumper. He was relatively expensive at 62,000, but would probably have been more expensive had he been sold after his half sister, Marie's Rock, had won the Mare's Hurdle. It wouldn't be a surprise to see him in the shake up, but of the newcomers I would prefer Big Fish, who had been due to make his debut in the abandoned Sandown race.

Pretty much as expected today. The Composeur was also very disappointing in an earlier race. I would give Hungry Hill another chance over a longer trip. He started off okay, but it looked as if he got very short short of room, and from that point continually ballooned his hurdles. I have already commented about O'Neill's rides spending too much time in the air, but this was an extreme case. Hopefully, his confidence can be repaired. The horse in the last was ultimately weak in the market, and was tapped for toe in a race run at a dawdle. Hard not to feel a bit peeved about Big Fish with Bellamy ending up in a very poor track position, and having to quickly find 5 lengths on the winner. Even then had he switched his whip into his left hand and given him a couple of taps he would probably still have won. The winner had finished behind Love In Sea in her point just emphasising what a dire ride Reddington gave that one at Cheltenham a couple of days ago.

Three at Hereford tomorrow. Playtogetaway was the horse I thought was going to beat Idalko Bihoue in his point. He was outpaced in a ordinary Warwick bumper, and it looks a strange move to run him over the minimum at Hereford. It would be a big surprise if he was quick enough, and maybe the idea is to get him handicapped, and then step up in trip. All For Glory was dreadful on hurdling debut when her jumping was poor, and she stopped to nothing. She goes up in trip, but on that evidence it is hard to be optimistic. By far the best chance of a winner appears to be Magic Seven is the closing bumper. He must have a good chance, particularly if the newcomers are not up to much.

Walk Of No Shame having looked booked for fifth outstayed her rivals inside the final furlong. Walk In Park's are not noted for wanting attritional conditions, but this was probably more about a stamina test than the ground. It makes you wonder if she would have had better results had she been sent forward rather than wait for a gear that wasn't there. It seems very likely she will need two and a half miles plus over hurdles. On Se Calme was weak in the market, and ran no race at all. She ended up nearly last and was effectively beaten before halfway. Assuming she was the fit the ground looks a big negative. Pride Rock was an eyecatcher in the first novice hurdle. He was never at the races, but could well have finished fifth if he hadn't run up the back of other horses. Needless to say he should do much better upped in trip. The horse in the veteran's chase raced prominently, but stopped as if shot.

The novice hurdles presented the bookmakers with two early Christmas presents. Yesterday Williams had two runners that went off 100/30 and were beaten a combined total of 85 lengths taking his losing run to 31. It was inevitable if he won one of these it would go off a huge price. How could anyone back anything he runs in a novice hurdle? As I said earlier Tudor has just been schooling them round. It probably wasn't the greatest race with presumably the favourite not coping with the ground, and the second favourite wanting a longer trip. On paper the staying novice looked really strong, but virtually everything at the top of the market disappointed. The favourite had a relatively easy lead and looked to be beaten on merit. It was a stiff ask for Spring Meadow, and an even stiffer one if you bungle nearly every hurdle. Twiston-Davies must rack up more mistakes than any other supposedly leading jock. Get Up Mush travelled as if he was running through glue, failing to reproduce anything like the Carlisle run. That said the winner won well for a stable who have been in the doldrums for a while.

Jonbon did it nicely against a rival who seemed to jump fences better than hurdles. Whether it was good enough to justify the short prices for the Arkle I am not so sure.

More modest offerings tomorrow, and no stable runners.

Noticed the runner up to Broughshane ( Copshill Lad) won a bumper easily for Milton Harris.