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gfootyfan
22 Feb 22 09:25
Joined:
Date Joined: 03 Jun 21
| Topic/replies: 14 | Blogger: gfootyfan's blog
Who has had experience with this?
I'm potentially being underpaid by more than €100 because I missed a price by 14 seconds (in a multiple placed the day before the race).
Bookmaker in question is Powers.
Pause Switch to Standard View Late price disputes in shop
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Report Dodadae2 February 22, 2022 9:31 AM GMT
Happened to me a couple of times in PP. Not on multiples though and not for £100. Also happened in Laddies when I was ONE second late!!! You are reliant on the goodwill of the "manager". Are you a regular? Is the "manager" a regular or just someone different every day? Was the staff member new and inexperienced? You need to be nice and calm ....£100 is a lot!!! Was it a large stake or a big price move? My differences have been less than £20 and have been a struggle to get paid. Good luck
Report monarch February 22, 2022 11:12 AM GMT
Has also happened to me on numerous occasions. Most of the time there was mitigating factors in my defence. The most regular issue was that the shop was being single manned, and the staff member was on the phone, or dealing with a problem with a machine, or simply taking other bets. As mentioned, it is at the discretion of the manager, and most of the time gets sorted quickly (depending on the humour of the manager of course!). As you were only 14 seconds late there could easily be a reason beyond your control for the "error", and it could be corrected. Failing that, slip the manager a few quid!!

Hopefully a forumite named Ronnie Rails will see this, as he is best placed to give an answer from the other side of the counter.
Report swiftynifty February 22, 2022 11:18 AM GMT
I'm guessing you wrote on a price on the ticket yourself, it got accepted by the cashier without verifying? If the cashier checked the price they would have seen it had shortened. If they didn't check because they 'trusted' you then there's the problem.
Report stewarts rise February 22, 2022 11:44 AM GMT
14 seconds is a long time in price movements.
Report Movewiththetimes February 22, 2022 12:24 PM GMT
^ It is but it works both ways, if your selection goes from 9/1 to 10/1 in 14 seconds you still get paid 9/1, here is where the problem lies.
Report Joe Lampton February 22, 2022 12:48 PM GMT
5 years ago I went into Betfred and asked for £250 @ 11/10 on the morning of the race. I'd never been the shop before and they rang up to see if it could be accepted. They put the phone down and said the bet was agreed and wrote 11/10 on the slip before putting it through the till. The horse won at SP of 8/11 and when I went to get paid out they said my bet was placed at 10/11 and that the timestamp on the slip shows that 10/11 was the best price at the time. In effect the price was cut straight after the call for approval but before it was put through the till. I explained all this but it took three trips to the shop and the area manager to get involved before I was paid out. The person in the shop was saying i'd missed 11/10 by 5 seconds...I told them this was the cut in price betwen the phone going down and it being rang through but is was computer says no. Total nightmare to get paid out in full!
Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 1:44 PM GMT
I had an issue with this a couple of years back.

Walk into shop minutes before a race.

Try to take 100 at 5/2.

Wrote 5/2 on slip.

Goes through.

I check their screen and is already 2/1.

Asked if I got 5/2.

No sorry 9/4.

Well ok I dont want the bet then.

Sorry the bet is struck now.

Surely this is an issue.
Report swiftynifty February 22, 2022 1:46 PM GMT
So you wanted the bet at a price you had missed?
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 1:48 PM GMT
if your selection goes from 9/1 to 10/1 in 14 seconds you still get paid 9/1

exactly.  has anyone ever went back to collect and got a nice surprise because of this ? 

........ didn't think so
Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 1:50 PM GMT
Was 5/2 when I handed it over the counter, not my issue what they do with the slip before it goes in the cistern.

If they insist on F'ing around then surely it should be my right (within a couple of seconds) to say no thanks if its that price.

If you went to Tesco and picked up a pack of Wagon Wheels on offer for a quid and you got to the till and they were a different price completly do you think you have the option to say no sorry I wont take those?
Report Manoleeds February 22, 2022 1:52 PM GMT
How did they give you 9/4 -did they write it on the slip?
Report TheGoddess February 22, 2022 1:54 PM GMT
My experience shows that it can take some staff upto 30 seconds to a) find the price, b) wrire it on the slip and c) process it through the till.

There has to be a degree of flexiblity and all bets cannot be judged on the time they are finally processed through the till.

There needs to be a 10 second allowance on all bets.

BTW have have also experienced screen shows to be out of line with till shows, particularly in Betfred.
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 1:54 PM GMT
so you can hand your bet over at 5/2 and he puts it through and says you're on at 1/33 and you have to take it "'cos the bet is struck now".

doubt it.
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 1:57 PM GMT
contract is between you and them at 5/2.  giving you 9/4 is a breach of the contract.

threaten them with small claims.
Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 2:01 PM GMT

Feb 22, 2022 -- 1:52PM, Manoleeds wrote:


How did they give you 9/4 -did they write it on the slip?


If you intend to take a price supposedly, you take the price it is at the time, which was obvs 9/4 at the time.

Hulk theoretically yes thats what I thought?

Was a couple of years back now.

Report the dealer February 22, 2022 2:17 PM GMT
Brilliant, the OP doesn't give any indication what happened but the forum can give a full breakdown on what went on.

Maybe he was just 14 seconds late !!
Report Joe Lampton February 22, 2022 2:31 PM GMT
Went down shop today for first time in 5 years. They asked for my name when I put a bet on. Is this normal practice now?
Report swiftynifty February 22, 2022 2:40 PM GMT
Punters who write on their own prices are usually trying it on. If the cashier found the price and wrote it on the ticket I'd be fairly certain you would get that price regardless of what time it went through the till.
Report monarch February 22, 2022 2:40 PM GMT
It's years ago now, but I was in a Magic Sign over here in Ireland, and was placing a bet on an Eddie O Grady horse that was well fancied in Tipperary. Docket done out (correctly) for 100 @ 7s (had been 10s, but I was slow out of the traps that morning), but the manager was taking a personal call behind the counter. I didn't mind waiting for his call to finish, placed my bet, exchanged pleasantries with him, and out the door.

In the interim, the horses price had dropped from 7s to 6s (eventually won at around 9/4, apologies for the aftertiming). Went in to collect my 800, only to receive 700, and was told I was late. A dispute ensued over the price, my first time ever with that manager, who refused to pay the 7s. I respectfully reminded him of his PERSONAL phone call, but he still would not budge. I just told him I would contact the area manager, who I knew personally, and he backed down relatively quickly. I didn't like having to make the threat of taking it further but it was his fault in the first place. Just shows that price discrepancies can happen for any reason, often not at the fault of the customer.
Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 3:52 PM GMT
It said 5/2 on the screen, I wrote 5/2 and went straight over to the counter, after being checked whatever it must of not of been 5/2 but surely I then have the right to cancel my bet?
Report swiftynifty February 22, 2022 4:03 PM GMT
you can't cancel a bet once you've taken a price and the price has shortened ,  for obvious reasons. If the cashier checked the price you had written on and circled it then you should have got 5-2.
Report dave1357 February 22, 2022 4:10 PM GMT
swiftynifty • February 22, 2022 4:03 PM GMT
you can't cancel a bet once you've taken a price and the price has shortened


lengthened surely?
Report swiftynifty February 22, 2022 4:13 PM GMT
I meant lengthened dave but any price taken is the contract, it's much easier to cancel SP bets.
Report The Management February 22, 2022 4:18 PM GMT
What are you going to do? Call the police?

They can do anything they like - and they do! - they are (effectively) unregulated and there is no (straightforward) process for challenging them.

And yet most of the people on here seem to think that even less regulation is required Laugh
Report ronnie rails February 22, 2022 4:18 PM GMT
Hulk

regarding your 1348 post the punter should be paid out at 10/1 but i would ask for odds he will get paid out at  9/1 ,will leave it up to you where the other point goes. happens all the time.

said this for years if taking a price ask the staff to translate the bet before you leave the counter.

regards
Ronnie.
Report The Management February 22, 2022 4:25 PM GMT
Joe Lampton22 Feb 22 14:31Joined: 23 Mar 05 | Topic/replies: 329 | Blogger: Joe Lampton's blog
Went down shop today for first time in 5 years. They asked for my name when I put a bet on. Is this normal practice now?


Don't tell him Pike!
Report gfootyfan February 22, 2022 4:43 PM GMT
The staff weren't particularly incompetent, I guess just bad timing with the price changing between when I had double checked it, gotten to the counter, the staff having analysed what was being put through, and the bet being timestamped.

So what is the best order to approach this? I'm thinking:
1. Ask the shop manager what discretion can be offered
2. Take the case to the area manager (how would I get in touch with the area manager?)
3. Take the case to an upper echelon staff in HQ
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 February 22, 2022 5:23 PM GMT
Tell em the cashier was on tiktok or facebook and you had to wait 5 mins to get served........they will believe you!
Report themightymac February 22, 2022 5:48 PM GMT
Bet was settled correctly. If you take a price in a betting shop, one gets the price when the cashier accepts the bet, not the price it was when standing in a que. Put your bets on earlier.
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 6:20 PM GMT
They can do anything they like

they used to be able to do anything they like.   not anymore (except in Eire).
Report kublai February 22, 2022 6:22 PM GMT
I always get the staff to find and write the price on the slip themselves. If the price is different to what you were expecting at least you are aware and can decline the bet.
I have noticed recently that some staff seem to think it is not their job to do this and even on occasion have faced outright refusal. It is pure laziness and i tend to avoid these shops.
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 6:24 PM GMT
If you take a price in a betting shop, one gets the price when the cashier accepts the bet

this has to be nonsense. 

so you hand over your bet looking for 9/2, and he hands you it back saying you're on, but at 1/500 as that was the price "when i accepted the bet".
Report The Management February 22, 2022 6:39 PM GMT
hulk2322 Feb 22 18:20Joined: 04 May 12 | Topic/replies: 18,665 | Blogger: hulk23's blog
they used to be able to do anything they like.   not anymore (except in Eire).


So they can't in your opinion:

Refuse to take a bet?
Close your account?
Restrict your account?
Demand documents if you have the nerve to try and make a withdrawal?
Cut the price of an imminent non-runner in order to manufacture a R4 deduction?
Advertise a price that they won't lay?
etc, etc, etc,

On what planet do you think they can't do absolutely anything they want?
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 6:46 PM GMT
they can't do "anything they like".  they can't take your bet & refuse to pay you out if it wins.  until recently they could, and can still refuse in Ireland and there's nothing you can do.
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 6:48 PM GMT
they can't "just keep your deposit".  as coral found out when they tried to keep mine. 

mention court to these scumbags and they soon start listening.
Report The Management February 22, 2022 6:52 PM GMT
wtf - They do that all the time - the most recent one was Banks, before that it was baldy, before that it was baldy again, before that it was.... and so it goes on. They do it all the time.

What is your recourse? There is none! Ergo they can do anything they like.
Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 6:56 PM GMT

Feb 22, 2022 -- 6:24PM, hulk23 wrote:


If you take a price in a betting shop, one gets the price when the cashier accepts the betthis has to be nonsense.

Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 6:57 PM GMT
This is the issue.

The ability that they can just do as they please.

Fair enough 5/2 to 9/4 not ideal not the end of the world.
Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 6:58 PM GMT
A bookies will eventually go not manned at all soon, cashless NAP.

Caretaker comes to open shop for macheens, ends shift, shift starts again to close shop, NAP.
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 6:59 PM GMT
Manager - the 2005 Gambling Act meant that gambling debts became legally enforceable.
Report ItsMeSwaddle February 22, 2022 7:01 PM GMT
Imagine if you go fru the till at Tesco and the lady at the till adds an extra 25p to your tin o beans.

You say ok love I wont take em...

And she calls you a welching cnt.

Oh no that would never happen.
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 7:01 PM GMT
ergo, they cannot do whatever they want ....
Report hulk23 February 22, 2022 7:06 PM GMT
scans your lettuce and says that's £6,000 now, and i've scanned it so you have to pay.  have you got a clubcard ?
Report Manoleeds February 22, 2022 7:07 PM GMT
It's a while since I've placed a bet in a shop but when I did,if the price was 5/2 , I'd say " I'll take the 5/2 please" . If by then it had shortened, the counter staff would say "It's 2/1 now" so I had the chance to say forget it. Of course, I'd be saying it's gone out to 3s if the bet hadn't already been photographed or whatever they do now.
On course , I once wanted 11/4 about a horse and just as I was handing the money over , it changed on his board to 5/2 but the 11/4 was honoured- Thanks Pino.
Report The Management February 22, 2022 8:32 PM GMT
hulk2322 Feb 22 18:59Joined: 04 May 12 | Topic/replies: 18,675 | Blogger: hulk23's blog
Manager - the 2005 Gambling Act meant that gambling debts became legally enforceable.


You seem to be under the illusion that this was for the benefit of punters.Laugh

It was only about a year ago that high profile owner (the multi-millionaire failed banker that doesn't realise that he looks a complete **** wearing an all-in-one wig with a hat and sunglasses attached to it) welched on his entire anti-post portfolio with the pretend bookmakers that he had set up in order to get in on the casino/slots action.

Who took up that cause iyo? The police, the flying squad, the gambling commission, the govt, the FCA?

He's still walking around racecourses and conducting TV interviews as bold as brass like he never welched. Nobody (to my knowledge) has ever asked him why he welched on all those bets. Obviously the punters concerned get the satisfaction of knowing that at least God gave him a huge whack with the ugly stick!

As I said - they can do whatever they like - and so of course they do whatever they like.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 February 22, 2022 8:42 PM GMT
TM

No doubt another point well elucidated, I stopped reading when I reached anti-post[sic]  Cry
Report swiftynifty February 22, 2022 8:50 PM GMT
he's getting mixed up with his antipasto
Report dave1357 February 22, 2022 8:59 PM GMT
^^^ TM I think his firm was incorporated in Ireland where gambling debts aren't enforceable. Also he arranged for the bets to be honoured

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/racing/rich-ricci-delighted-betbright-s-ante-post-bets-will-now-be-honoured-1.3843141
.
Report Hibore February 22, 2022 9:18 PM GMT
Maybe I’m missing something but if a price changes 15 secs before the bet is struck why do you think you should get the the better price ?
Report The Management February 22, 2022 9:43 PM GMT
Dave - he welched! The customers were the last thing on his mind when he was making millions from the sale of the platform. The irony is that they are pretty much all incorporated in some other country either to avoid the law, the rules or paying tax - and yet they're all worried about the growth of a "black market"!LaughLaugh
Report The Management February 22, 2022 9:45 PM GMT
We wouldn't want some fly-by-night firms springing up and cashing in without being properly regulated or playing their dues would we LaughLaugh - Oh, hang on, that's actually the entire existing industry!
Report dave1357 February 22, 2022 10:06 PM GMT
He tried to welch but soon realised that it was a bad idea and made sure all bets were honoured, as detailed in my link. 

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, you still don't seem to grasp that GC etc think everyone who gambles is a loser, so don't think they have any duty to help people who will lose their money anyway.
Report The Management February 23, 2022 1:02 AM GMT
I think the body of my posts makes it pretty clear that I think the GC is an incompetent, spineless organisation that is way out of its depth and has failed - allowing the industry to run amok. So the industry being stupidly short sighted and massively greedy, plus the GC being hopelessly incompetent - we now find ourselves where we are today:

Independent bookmakers pretty much wiped from existence 
"Bookmakers" that refuse that to take a bet
"Bookmakers that close accounts
"Bookmakers" that restrict accounts
"Bookmakers" that can welch
"Bookmakers" that are only interested in cultivating addicts to plays slots and casino games

The REAL prospect of an intervention that stops everybody from having a bet in the future in order to "over-correct" all of the abuses perpetrated by on-line "bookmakers" in the past 20 years under the wholly inadequate watch of the GC.

Happy days! - but you can hardly blame the "anti-mob" imo - they have brought it on themselves.
Report Blencathra February 23, 2022 10:24 AM GMT
I give 1min leeway when taking a bet and price putting on ,
Work in large shop and some old folks not quick to counter,

And I'll track price down if 1m 2sec over (ie. 5/2 will go 9/4 , 2/1etc)
Report swiftynifty February 23, 2022 10:26 AM GMT
used to be policy in some independent shops to offer the back price but I'm assuming such practice is long gone.
Report Blencathra February 23, 2022 10:36 AM GMT
All shops in my area give different.

But I've been playing the game long enough on punters side (only 3yrs work side) to understand you need good customer service n banter in a shop.

Those Fobts have urined me off , as company want me to get more people using them ( totally disagree with them). Bye bye work !!

Plenty other work out there
Report TheGoddess February 23, 2022 10:39 AM GMT
Think in many shops you visit, the screens simply do not match up with the tills.

In those shops where you can still see the SIS show, watch the text screen also, you will be alarmed at how far they are out on occaisions.

Of course, with those firms that do their own shows, show prices cut to offer eztra places, this is not possible.
Report swiftynifty February 23, 2022 11:36 AM GMT
I'm surprised back prices aren't offered more for small stakes, it's a slight incentive to bet in a certain shop. Let's face it the vast majority of bets lose, and often it's only a quarter/half a point if they win anyway , hardly going to break the bank. You get it back anyway, most addicts leave the shop empty-handed.
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