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12 Dec 21 18:52
Date Joined: 12 May 12
| Topic/replies: 14,784 | Blogger: tanglefoot's blog
New five part interview by Starsports on the tube
Pause Switch to Standard View Harry Findlay
Show More
Report stu December 13, 2021 5:59 PM GMT
TBF think he realises it was a dodgy bet now, they were missing Carter.
Report GLASGOWCALLING December 13, 2021 6:01 PM GMT
Is his mate Glen still about. ??
Report stu December 13, 2021 6:05 PM GMT
He was playing for part, but carrying injury then went off. Guess that was unlucky, but you have to predict it's possible.
Report stu December 13, 2021 6:05 PM GMT
Carter that was...
Report Rider December 13, 2021 6:08 PM GMT
value is subjective, the fact he's betting £2m on it suggests he probably has a better opinion than a few anonymous after timers
Report casemoney December 13, 2021 6:09 PM GMT
Was the Magician who used to post on here not Involved in the Scoop with him ?
Report stu December 13, 2021 6:11 PM GMT
Value is value for sure, and is subjective, but overstaking is overstaking whatever level you are at too. He would admit it was overstaked pretty sure.
Report doorman99 December 13, 2021 6:18 PM GMT
Glasgow, yes, he gives him a good mention.
Report stu December 13, 2021 6:44 PM GMT
Just reading back in the book he says after the big loss, he was doing it to try and slow down if he won, and it was a very tough one to take because of how much he lost (and others he had encouraged with big staking).

I can relate, I've had some bets in my past where I just wanted to win that amount of 'enough' but instead lost them - they hurt because you know you've done too much on it - not only do you not win, you lose so much it's tough to get it back, and mentally regroup. So you end up in the opposite side of the coin to where you wanted to be in the bigger picture.

As I said initially, it's not just about that game either, if they'd scraped through they would have had two very difficult games and Carter injured most likely. Outright markets are tough if you overstake, not only money wise but stress wise too!
Report Rigsby December 13, 2021 10:29 PM GMT
In Ep. 2, he talks about "Rebate" and "Rebaters" when discussing the Scoop 6
Could someone please explain to me what or who this is all about.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 December 14, 2021 3:09 AM GMT
Big syndicates were enticed to bet directly into the tote with a rebate on stakes. This was cheaper than having to pay bookmakers for bets taken on terminals in betting shops.

I think!
Report Ramruma December 14, 2021 8:53 AM GMT
Yes, but with the side-effect of giving the big players receiving rebates a large advantage over the ordinary punter, which Harry refers to.
Report Rigsby December 14, 2021 10:47 AM GMT
thanks for the replies
Report beccaboo December 14, 2021 11:10 AM GMT
Surely with the tote creaming off the deductions from these tote pool bets cannot be value,or am i missing something.
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 11:15 AM GMT
He was banging on about 105 % pools on Dog racing last year , nowt came of it
Report hologon December 14, 2021 11:30 AM GMT
Betfair ambassador  he says
Report sparrow December 14, 2021 12:06 PM GMT
Such a pity his Coventry venture wasn't successful.
Report Fashion Fever December 14, 2021 12:30 PM GMT
whose glen then

mentions him in all his interviews
Report Ramruma December 14, 2021 12:50 PM GMT
Glen = Glen Gill. If you listen to Harry (or read his book) a lot of his success comes from having his card marked by experts. A lot of his failures come from blindly lumping the rent money on short-priced favourites.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 12:56 PM GMT
The jockey Graham Bradley has been released on bail over charges of conspiracy to defraud.
He appeared before Bow Street Magistrates Court on Wednesday morning charged with conspiracy to defraud. He is due to return on 9 June.

He stands accused of trying to ensure his horse, Man Mood, did not win a race at Warwick in November 1996 by using a performance-inhibiting drug.

The veteran jockey is due to ride at Cheltenham on Thursday. But his racing licence may be withdrawn when the Jockey Club meet to discuss the charge on Friday.

He last raced on Saturday when he rode Sunny Bay in the Grand National at Aintree.

After the hearing, Mr Bradley said: "I want to ride on and I'm looking forward to riding at Cheltenham tomorrow."

Five other accused appeared in the dock with the jockey. They were professional gambler Glen Gill, landscape gardener Adam Hodgson, John Matthews, Jason Moore and Raymond Butler - all unemployed.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 1:00 PM GMT
Gill is also tragically both bald and ginger. And, in my limited experience of him before I told him to F off and never come near me again, not a man you'd entirely trust.

But evidently Findlay believes otherwise.
Report sludge December 14, 2021 1:43 PM GMT
What did he do / say to you Screaming ?
Report The Management December 14, 2021 1:54 PM GMT
Steady on screaming - don't go associating him with criminals - you will shatter the illusion that he's just a shrewd (Laugh), cuddly and lovable cockney geezer.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 2:16 PM GMT
Long time ago. About 1991 or 1992. I got to know hGill as one of the faces who hung around the pre-parade ring at the south-east gaffs. He, I and the other lads - Eddie the Shoe, Alan the Beard, etc. - would discuss the horses walking around, how we thought the race might pan out, pass on any whispers we'd heard, that sort of thing. Very much an atmosphere of us versus them - a small group of pros helping each other. It was informal, but it worked nicely. You put something in, you got something in return. And if there was a plot going down, you'd make sure we all got a bit on.

Anyway, one afternoon on the Lingfield AW jumps, when it was a real pit of race-fixing, Gill materialized beside me, wanting to know what I thought about this next favourite. Looks really short, dunnit?

Yes, I said (it was about 2/1). I can't see why on the form book at all.

"Yeah. Right. Lay us a two and a half hundred to one then?"

"Eh? Oh, er ... yeah, okay, umm ..."

Gill immediately slid away and disappeared among the books. The horse finished up odds-on and made all.

I went up to him afterwards, handed him his £250, and told him never to come near me or try to speak to me ever again. He duly didn't and shortly afterwards all his hair fell out, so lat that be a warning to anyone else thinking of trying it on.

Now, contrast that with Dave Nevison, for instance. I know he gets stick on here, and Bodugi is not a great advert for him, but I remember one day at Southwell where we were both trying to back a rag which was showing at 12s in places. He took one end of the Ring and I the other. I was hopeless. Couldn't get a penny on, and the price was now 10s and 9s.

What did you get? asked Dave.

Not a penny. Nothing. Sad Did you get anything?

Yeah, I was lucky. Want a thousand to eighty?

Oh, cheers, Dave. Thanks.

Not a thousand to ninety, note. Not even a twelve hundred to one. But the full fractions. That's how a proper bloke does it.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 2:20 PM GMT
The Management - I think we should make it clear that Glen Gill is not a criminal. He walked free from the Old Bailey without a stain on his character.
Report GLASGOWCALLING December 14, 2021 2:35 PM GMT
Wasnt Ginger when I knew him in the 80s/90s.
Report The Management December 14, 2021 2:37 PM GMT
Not a convicted criminal. Agreed.

The stain - I think that's a matter of opinion.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 2:38 PM GMT
Well, not after he turned me over he wasn't, no.
Report GLASGOWCALLING December 14, 2021 2:38 PM GMT

  Hard to tell as most of its gone !! Laugh
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 2:39 PM GMT
There was a reason he used to wear that floppy hat.
Report stu December 14, 2021 3:13 PM GMT
screaming, not being funny but you sound very angry about losing a 250 quit bet?
Report stu December 14, 2021 3:13 PM GMT
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 3:16 PM GMT
The money was trivial. That was what was annoying. He turned me over for just £250. (Well, much less than that from his point of view - he would have laid the bet off.)
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 3:24 PM GMT
Look. here's another example of how friends should behave. When Sydney Barry won the last at Hereford one afternoon at around that time, Alan the Beard and I knew we were the only punters at the track who wanted to back the animal, but the Ring was very weak, showing 33s, and 50s with a few fiddlers. So, we agreed to back it at SP in the Tote Credit shop and leave the Ring alone. And we were rewarded with a 100/1 SP.

But that SP was a massive surprise. The point is, either of us could have taken advantage of the agreement by quietly backing it in the Ring, knowing the other wasn't going to be in competition for the price. But we didn't. You'd trust Alan with your life, or even your wallet.

Glen Gill, not so much.
Report The Management December 14, 2021 3:28 PM GMT
stu - I would relate it to lending somebody you know some money (having been promised they would move heaven and earth to pay you back) - and then not getting paid back even when they are flush.

The money is completely immaterial.
Report stu December 14, 2021 3:47 PM GMT
Yep, fair enough about the feelings of being turned over rather.

But I presume you were used to taking bets against this guy, which is obviously adversarial by nature?
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 4:06 PM GMT
No. Never before. It was right out of the blue. It felt like a set-up.
Report sparrow December 14, 2021 4:09 PM GMT
Was you not at all suspicious, screaming?  Especially as it was out of the blue.
Report Manoleeds December 14, 2021 4:12 PM GMT
Just listened to part 2. What was the scoop 6 rebate he was on about that went to Sharkey (?)
Report stu December 14, 2021 4:12 PM GMT
Ah ok, so first bet he asked for - can understand the annoyance in that case.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 14, 2021 4:18 PM GMT
Well, when he headed straight for the Ring, sparrow, yeah.

I wasn't thinking it through. I've never had private bets with the likes of Fremantle or Nevison or Alan the Beard in all the decades I've known them. We're on the same side. Until that moment I'd assumed Gill was too. It was the first time something like that happened to me on the racecourse. The last time too.

It was a (fairly cheap) lesson. But only if you don't forget it.
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 4:25 PM GMT

Don't remember this , Was betfair up and running how were they mean't to have defrauded 3 million
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 4:28 PM GMT
Pre Betfair ,Sorry
Report sparrow December 14, 2021 4:32 PM GMT
Sounds like the man was a proper shyster, screaming.
Report jimnast December 14, 2021 4:34 PM GMT
He was sparrow and not just in the world of gambling
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 4:38 PM GMT
Got 3 million betting other horses in the races and one had a Spread account , must have been alot easier to get on back then Laugh
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 4:39 PM GMT

Amuzing piece
Report dr . atkins December 14, 2021 5:02 PM GMT
very surprised harry findlay doing this with starsports seeing his previous remarks about ben keith
Report geoff m December 14, 2021 5:10 PM GMT
Aussie dogs/Football/Ruby Union/Racing etc .......... gambling addict akin to Terry Ramsden.

Fascinating characters.
Report GEORGE.B December 14, 2021 5:40 PM GMT
Ramruma 14 Dec 21 12:50 
If you listen to Harry (or read his book) a lot of his success comes from having his card marked by experts. A lot of his failures come from blindly lumping the rent money on short-priced favourites

From the book it seemed he got in with Tony Bloom at just the right time and cleaned up on the Asian football markets, but it seemed a strange story about how their partnership came to an end.

But tbf to Harry, he said he won a lot of money travelling the world watching sports like tennis when they weren't widely televised, and picking up angles that way.
Report SlippyBlue December 14, 2021 6:00 PM GMT
Getting involved in 2 bend sprints in Aussie dogs?
Maybe he makes that work, I wouldn't know, but it does sound a bit odd to say the least.
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 6:12 PM GMT
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 6:14 PM GMT
He was roaring and shouting last year about 105% pools at Towcester Massive jackpots etc , Not heard a word since .
Report Ramruma December 14, 2021 6:34 PM GMT
Lifford dog track in Ireland is Harry's current project (and presumably why he is doing these interviews). It is scheduled to open next year.
Report ItsMeSwaddle December 14, 2021 6:39 PM GMT
I hope he makes it work.

Not because I like him.

Just to stick one up the current bookmaker dross we are stuck with.
Report sparrow December 14, 2021 6:53 PM GMT
Coventry was the one we needed to work but he didn't see to get much backing from the Greyhound establishment. An excellent running track too.
Report casemoney December 14, 2021 7:02 PM GMT
Cracking track  Sparrow , he gave it a go , but as you say little or no backing , Track was fairest circuit I have seen  in Years , Books certainly not interested in funding that ,They had a chance with Tow but built a Monstrosity upgrades have done little .. G luck to him with Lifford right country could well work .
Report sparrow December 14, 2021 7:36 PM GMT
Whatever they say about Harry he certainly has the interests of Greyhound Racing at heart.
Report jimnast December 14, 2021 7:37 PM GMT
Without doubt
Report Ramruma December 14, 2021 8:30 PM GMT
Part 3 is up. Question 1: who is Glen?
Report FOYLESWAR December 14, 2021 8:57 PM GMT
harru said if he fancies one and he is thinking of putting say £800 on it he will phone a few contacts glen and others  see what they think ,if they are positive about it he will up the stakes to  double or more ?  wondering if they re negative about its chances does he still bet it for the £800 or leave it

/,works for him and each to his own  other peoples opinions but dont think i could be influenced one way or the other by other peoples opinions into  having a bet or not having a bet ,then again i havent owned a gold cup winner or had £500,000 plus on a bet  .love his enthusiam for the game  though and his quote "gambling is the greatest game in the world" he is not wrong !
Report GEORGE.B December 14, 2021 9:08 PM GMT
What's Harry gonna do if these affordability checks come in?

Just send them a savings account statement with 500 large on it?
Report lux December 14, 2021 9:10 PM GMT
Part 3 is up. Question 1: who is Glen?

Glen Gill
Report lux December 14, 2021 9:17 PM GMT
Report Rider December 14, 2021 9:51 PM GMT
glen appeared in this documentary from 1997, he's the one putting sugar in Harrys tea
Report seaside December 15, 2021 5:16 PM GMT
screaming from beneaththewaves aka Deaf Paul is one of the tightest people I have known he would make sure he would go to the other end of the platform away from everybody so he could drink his tea without having to buy anybody else one.
I will bet 1.01 that no one on this forum can say he ever put his hand in his pocket to buy anybody a cup of tea or anything else.
He is one of the most envious people I have ever met Loper aka John The Beard who would bet much bigger than Deaf Paul and was a lot more successful it killed him and came out with he got his money from his mother and he never got it from backing horse racing well paul if you read this come on here and deny it.
In regards to Glen I never heard anybody say a bad word against him when I used to see him on the racecourse he always handled himself with dignity, unlike Deaf Paul who screamed the house down when the horse he had backed got beat one day at Fontwell all done via my face all because I had backed the winner.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 December 15, 2021 5:23 PM GMT
Why did he scream if he is deaf?
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 15, 2021 5:36 PM GMT
Got money from my mother! I grew up on a housing estate in Slough, you berk! My mother was a lovely lady, but evening shifts in the Bunzl toilet paper factory on the trading estate  really didn't pay that well.

Look, I still don't know who you are, seaside, but you really, really don't know who I am.

Let me know, though, and one day I'll buy you that cup of tea.
Report mitolo December 15, 2021 5:36 PM GMT
thats funny. i dont know the geezer but 1 book i do know hated paying him, above all others. sometimes hed go for a walk and let the clerk pay, particularly if he was doing it in.
Report mitolo December 15, 2021 5:38 PM GMT
do you have a doppelganger screamer?
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 15, 2021 5:46 PM GMT
I hope not, for his sake, mitolo.

The only case of mistaken identity I can think of was the Taunton permit holder, Bernard Scriven. I got to know him after Eddie Fremantle and I had a 50/1 touch on his chaser Gabish in a Fontwell seller one Bank Holiday.

Every time I met himafterwards, he used to call me Dave, and I couldn't work out why. It turned out that he'd asked Mick Connorton of the Life who I was, and he'd told him I was deaf, and Scriven had misheard it as 'Dave'.

Other than that, Scriven was a real shrewdie who got everything right, though he insisted it was his daughter who did all the work.
Report mitolo December 15, 2021 6:45 PM GMT
may have done you a disservice as i was told there was a hard of hearing regular who was a pain. and jumped to a conclusion. which might be wrong. or right.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 15, 2021 6:54 PM GMT
Could well be me. Fits in with seaside's experience, doesn't it?

(Could someone tell me who seaside is, because I really seem to have annoyed him.)
Report dave1357 December 15, 2021 7:01 PM GMT
seaside with another aftertiming post lol
Report 11kv December 15, 2021 7:04 PM GMT
Seaside used to get info off his m8 who was a window cleaner if that helps id.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 15, 2021 7:16 PM GMT
Ken Payne? Robin Asquith?

Hang on. I've had another look at seaside's post. Is he claiming that I claimed John the Beard/loper bets with money inherited from his mother? What an odd thing to say. I don't know anything about John, nothing at all, other than he's one of the great punting survivors. And no, I have no idea how he does it. We bet very differently. He was usually looking for the good thing, and I was always looking to get it beat. We needed each other. Him to be sure he was doing it right, and me to be sure he was doing it wrong. And vice versa. Without that, there'd be no market.

It's complementary. And however little I had in common punting-wise, I'll always respect a survivor, because survivors are winners, and loper's one of them I just wish I could see what he saw in some of those winning favourites he backed, because it would have made me a better punter.
Report sparrow December 15, 2021 7:26 PM GMT
Seaside was always posting about Dave Nevison who he said he knew quite well.
Report Celtic warrior December 15, 2021 8:42 PM GMT
Another simon nott masterclass. Half way through.

A 1/5 poke 10 year ago is naaa 1/10 poke.

Can someone explain that for me please
Report basilbrush December 15, 2021 9:13 PM GMT
Inflation. ExcitedLaughLaughLaugh
Report Ramruma December 15, 2021 10:26 PM GMT
@Celtic warrior -- "A 1/5 poke 10 year ago is naaa 1/10 poke."

Harry means that a horse that would have started at 1/5 ten years ago will today start at 1/10. There are two reasons for this. First, the removal of betting tax (which used to mean that after-tax prices were shorter than they looked, so put a floor underneath prices). Secondly, while humans are wary of ultra-short prices (perhaps partly as a hangover from the tax days), bots and algorithms have no fear and will take the price right down to what it should be.

The net result of all this is that Harry, who used to win by being more willing to back long odds-on shots in the knowledge that they ought to have been even shorter, now has no margin.
Report seaside December 15, 2021 10:26 PM GMT
Paul, You said 'John the beard got his money from his mother' and not from backing horses are you going to deny it?

Funny how you are on this forum as screaming from beneaththewaves because that's what you did at Fontwell one day when I backed the winner and the one you backed got beat you went berserk and screamed the place down right in my face Eddy was standing next to you and my friend Paul was there as well a bookmaker who's name I forgot came up to me afterward and said he could not believe it.

Another time at one of the West Country tracks you were not too happy about the running of one of Terry Biddlecombes and shouted at him when he was in the unsaddling encloser.

If you want to know who I am just ask Eddy and ask him about that time at Fontwell.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 15, 2021 10:47 PM GMT
It was Terry Biddlecombe and Henrietta Knight I accosted at Exeter. If you were happy about how they ran their novices, then you're a fortunate man.

Dodger said that Henrietta Knight asked him who I was, and then she went to the stewards to get me ejected from the track. He said they told her to go away and not be so silly. No idea if that part of the story's true. But I must admit Hen 'n' Tel did look a bit peeved at being asked why they ran their horses that way.

As for the rest of your problems, I have no idea what you're on about, and still no idea who you are.
Report ged December 16, 2021 9:48 AM GMT
screaming - was your mum working on the trading estate in 78/79? I used to do a night shift at Cow Gum, so I might have passed her on my way in to make glue as she was walking home after making toilet paper.
Report Georgio_Traitorelli December 16, 2021 10:02 AM GMT

Dec 13, 2021 -- 11:30AM, sparrow wrote:

Some decent interviews on this website

I love the Terry Ramsden one

Report dave1357 December 16, 2021 10:38 AM GMT
when I was a boy we used to dream of making toilet paper and glue.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 16, 2021 12:13 PM GMT
ged - Oh, she would have just missed you at that time. It was early/mid-70s she was working at Bunzl. But you might have passed my dad going in to work on his bike. He was a drill-setter at Bestobell Engineering (that's how he met my mother - she'd been a drill operator there, and he used to set her drill for her - that's romance, Slough-style).
Report ItsMeSwaddle December 16, 2021 3:17 PM GMT
Surprised courses aint tried a Findlay style idea that is GENUINE value to the punter.

Like a ChesterBET style of betting, but owned my the course and using a 10-12% takeout not 35 or whatever their farcical operation is.

If people wish to remain in the 20th century and bet with the dinosaur on course bookmakers to 120-130%,so be it thats fine.

Use the Exchange prices (just like every single other bookmaker operation) , use a 110% market not a 102% market via Bet Terminals (US Style) cash or card.

Pour the 10% profits back into the racing at your course.

Report seaside December 16, 2021 4:47 PM GMT

To tell you the truth I thought you were a bit autistic you were very good at what you did and I know you did win money at the game.

Big Ale told me you let him stay with you when he was racing in the west country so you get brownie points for that.

Anyway, that was all many years ago now and another lifetime ago.

If I do ever see you on the course I will hold you to that offer of a cup of tea lol

Good luck and happy Christmas.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 16, 2021 5:29 PM GMT
That's nice. Happy Christmas to you too, wherever (or whoever) you may be.

"Big Ale". I like that. I know Al's a thirsty and enthusiastic CAMRA member, but I didn't know he'd gone as fat as his name in honour.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 16, 2021 5:30 PM GMT
*gone as far as changing his name in honour.

(Sorry, Alan!)
Report ballyregan December 16, 2021 5:38 PM GMT
is seaside the chap dave nevison was negative about in his book?
Report screaming from beneaththewaves December 16, 2021 5:38 PM GMT
You have to understand I've been really hard of hearing all my life. It's very hard to be the life and soul of the party. The only way to cope is to avoid conversations unless they're for a good reason. Otherwise it's just constant humiliation.

I'm completely deaf now, which is one reason I rarely attend. The last time I went to Taunton it was just eerie. No commentary, nothing to occupy myself with. Just endlessly explaining to people that I can't hold a conversation any more, and then having them simply carrying on as if I could. No running around the Ring, just standing in the cold, staring at the phone.

Much better fun at home having arguments on here.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 December 16, 2021 7:06 PM GMT
Nevison or someone who looked like him
paid off a 5k credit account in Scottish
fivers LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 December 16, 2021 7:07 PM GMT
In England!!
Report liberator of the oppressed December 16, 2021 7:59 PM GMT
Harry is a top man looked after his dog Big Fella proper good enough that is good enough for me.
Report Life-Lucky December 16, 2021 10:27 PM GMT
Best thread Ive ever seen in the ten years Ive been here. Thanks everyone for the insights into the game at the sharp end.
ps love the happy ending, good on ya Seaside and Screamer and Merry Christmas to you both
Report G Hall January 20, 2022 11:50 AM GMT
Happy Birthday Harry  60 today I believe, now that's what I call a life well lived, and here's to many many more.
Best wishes  Harry.
Report DP325 January 21, 2022 7:45 AM GMT
Certainly a character ain’t he!
Report dambuster January 21, 2022 1:00 PM GMT
Did Harry say which shop he won the £2 million in ?
Report G Hall January 23, 2022 12:55 AM GMT
Not sure that he did
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