AN EXAMPLE OF HOW CRUEL THE BENEFIT SYSTEM(UNIVERSAL CREDIT) IS

someone might give you an answer on the
politics forum.
Fck off over there.

I claimed job seekers allowance for 2 months about ten years ago, i was treated like a total scumbag and the bashtards in charge were worse than The Gestapo.

horrible khoonts ,hope he gets his benefits back pandora ,appeal it or go to citizens advice .

Has he every thought of robin banks

WAC

https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/1460989055362125824?t=COiaSsVQd_DOalWWi-EBHg&s=19

Pandora.

Explain the situation fully on your nephew's UC journal.
I had an issue with my local job centre but it was soon resolved, with an apology.
They are incompetent though, so be prepared to telephone a senior person in the job centre.

most on benefits have it easy and will never come off them unless forced to, like my soppy daughters boyfriend who is 26 and has been claiming for 3 years. pandemic was great for him, the useless tw@t. sanctions mean nothing and are very rarely enforced, no matter how many times i grass him up.

"sanctions mean nothing and are very rarely enforced,"

nonsense, unfortunately

no it aint. and why shouldnt people be sanctioned? most of them should be.

Anyone know how much you get on the rock and roll nowerdays? Ta...Tempting.

£ 74 per week for single person, no dependents.
In my interview at the job centre, the lady interviewer asked " how do you survive on that? ".

Is odds on drone operatives claim.

Would take 10s on.

anyone seen i daniel blake ?

Unfortunately for every genuine case there's plenty of false ones.

Don't get your knickers in a twist Pandora!

the prob in laundan is that you get your rent paid, and few are giving that up in a hurry with accommodation being ruinously expensive. rows of victorian houses in my locale have been converted into multi-occupancy flats, or studios as they are called and all are full at 200 a week. paid by the social.

one geezer i know owns several and the council is offering him a reward for any more he can supply. what a racket.

i vaguely remember adrian mole having a thing for her also

I've seen that film Ballyregan, it's absolutely heartbreaking.

Age 13 and 3/4.

its also tendentious tripe. ken roach is a raving loon who made one good film and has been serving up the same garbage ever since. hard cases make bad law.

I know slippy honest proud bloke who deserved a break but the system was unforgiving , happens to far to many imo
if anyones in an ok position everyone should help out the less fortunate imo because with a little bit of bad luck we could all be there

to be fair pandora they have got to get the dole numbers down , they have hundreds arriving in rubber boats on kent coasts who need looking after  and our own people must make way for them.

ken roach he a ruddy good film maker !

foyles poor bait

FOYLESWAR Joined: 09 Jan 11
Replies: 2252919 Nov 21 14:32 
to be fair pandora they have got to get the dole numbers down , they have hundreds arriving in rubber boats on kent coasts who need looking after  and our own people must make way for them.





Plenty of work available for all who want it.

yes sparrow as said the  whole country needs to be grafting to keep our arrivals in the style deserve!

As I said "all" people and if not willing then they can do without.

Daniel Blake yeah loved it Bally.

I spent a few days in Weymouth last week.Walking along the prom a guy started speaking to us.it turned out he came out of prison the day before.An ex soldier who must have been a decent person as he said his ex forces mates visited him in prison.He said he had no chance of being housed and when the weather got colder he would go back to prison.He pointed to the sea and said if You land here in a boat you get put in a hotel,my heart went out to him he said he had been homeless for 7 years,I am sure he had mental problems due to his army days.

if you're isolating because you have covid, it would seem a bit bizarre that they would force you to come in for a one-to-one interview.  suicidal even.

i'm walking down to the bus stop, with my covid.  i'm on the bus, with my covid.  i'm walking through town, with my covid, i'm entering the building, with my covid. 

what time was my interview again ?

A few years ago I always used to drop a couple of quid in a beggar's cup on the way home. Tbh some days I resented it as a tax on walking down the road. Long (and pointless) story short, one day I overheard him at the bus stop, talking to a couple of mates about their army pensions.

So yes, a lot of ex-forces types were dumped on to the streets. Like premier league footballers, they've had 10 years never having to make a decision because they're told where to sleep and when to eat. I gather now the MoD makes a bit more effort to get people ready for civvy street but in those days I used to work with a lot of American ex-soldiers who'd all been put through college on Uncle Sam's shilling.

Back to OP. Yes, some of these automatic sanctions are scandalously unfair but it can be hard to find anyone who has got the authority to override the decision. Either swallow it, or try the CAB if they are still open round your way. Maybe even your MP because sometimes the House of Commons letterhead can work wonders. Better still, slip him £50 for Christmas and tell him to forget it and get on with his life. If he's got mental health issues that's probably the kindest way.

Phew!

I work in a community college. 90% of our "clients" claim Universal Credit, Housing Benefit, Disability Benefit, special cases - kids/adults with ADHD, Anger Issues, Anxiety, etc.

I don't deal with these people directly... only later in a teaching capacity.

I would say 70% - 75% of them are swinging the lead. Far too many know exactly how to work the system and know exactly how they are going to stay on the "dole" for their whole lives - they've got it completely mapped out.

The "genuine" ones are trying whole-heartedly to improve their job chances and their life-styles in general and fair play to them for that. The others are very open about how they are working the system and are absolutely outraged when asked by the job centres to attend job interviews, assessments, etc.

These people are messing it up for others who are genuinely struggling with severe problems. I suppose it's been like this for a long time but very difficult (if not impossible) for any government or agency to put right.

thats why sanctions dont work. the genuine sufferers will indeed suffer but the ones who know how to 'game' the system wont. the geezer i mentioned earlier, a big time property owner, is being paid fortunes by the state to house people who have no intention of getting a job.

as long as people cry about individual cases being 'inhumane' this will not be challenged. and its hard to see how to fix it. one man who tried was frank field, now on the verge of death. he was told by the then labour govt. to 'think the unthinkable' and when he did they sacked him. he said the unsayable, namely that huge numbers are cheating the system. labour couldnt deal with this, knowing their members would revolt.

and those that say 74 quid a week is nothing ignore the fact that having your housing paid is worth a lot more than that and is a disincentive to getting a job.

and if i was in receipt of nearly 1200 per month in benefits i doubt id bother either

A fact that most people don't like to acknowledge, is that the vast majority of money paid out to people claiming benefits by quite some distance, is paid out to people that are claiming the state pension!

Much easier to pretend that many of the younger people claiming benefits are scroungers and that claiming the state pension isn't a form of claiming benefits (but rather an entitlement).

The first person to come back with: "I've paid in all me life!" wins the clown of the day award.

no 'pretending' about it. how do you explain how a 26 year old man(my daughters boyfriend, unfortunately) has gone from uni to claiming for 3 years and has never worked?

what sanction should be applied to him, apart form the one id like to apply, namely beating his head in? my preferred option.

just think when you walk your daughter down the aisle you will be so proud to welcome him into your family mitolo

yes, that consoles me greatly. look forward to paying for that

dont often lay @1000, but id make an exception for this one.

if you sail here in a dinghy with 27 others you'll automatically be eligible for circa £5,000 pm in benefits.  4 star hotel and the rest ...   

French dinghy sales through the roof ..

Give the tory party a fiver and get a lordship in return
£350 a day
No wonder they want to come here

Billions more stole in tax evasion by the rich than any benefit fraudsters...

Maybe people should get more angry about that than **** and tvs stereotypes

Such as accountants who devise and operate tax avoidance schemes which cost the country billions. About time everyone paid tax like the ordinary working person at PAYE.

Good luck trying to sell that to the Leader of the House!

Yes but the Leader of the House has no more votes than you or me in the next election!

I know he only has one vote here - but doesn't he get one in the Cayman Islands also?

Just another example of our scandalous system, management.

mitolo


every post you've put up on here. is absolute b'll'cks

is that so? please highlight where i got it wrong. and change your moniker

Every one of your posts is unadulterated rubbish. FACT

Oh I don't know what to do now they have cut the £20 universal credit.....winter is coming and I can't afford to pay for heating and feed my kids......well I say if you truly are unable to feed em... then don't breed em in the first place....don't rely on the benefit system to pay for your housing, bills,kids etc just like your parents and grandparents did, while also maybe doing a bit of cash in hand "work" on the side to more than get by.

Break the cycle, get a "legal" job, there are plenty of them, but of course most won't because they can't, as house and rental prices are through the roof due to demand being far greater than supply, and they simply won't be able to stand on their own two feet even if they try...hmmm... wonder what has been a major contributor to that sad situation coming about. Oh I forgot...all of our lives are enhanced by diversity...correct....it depends on the level of it though.
Even those with a so called worthwhile degree, have a £40,000 to £50,000 debt round their neck from Uni....most of them are paying this back, earning under £30000 and paying these high rents, meaning it will take years to save up a deposit for a place...and as the years go by, the amount of deposit required keeps going up and up.

All in all, the future prospects for a large proportion of the youth today is not a bright one.

Most injustices are simply mistakes made by the staff which has nothing to do with the government.
And then we only get the one side of the story.

I don't people living on benefits have a hard time of it.

All the ones I see seem happy enough living the easy life.

Surely it's time to do away with the biggest Ponzi scheme ever invented - the state pension. Or at least make it means tested like every other state benefit.

Still can't get my head around people that are the biggest benefit claimants going and by far the biggest drain on the public finances, moaning about "lazy people" claiming benefits when they themselves are claiming the only benefit that doesn't even require getting out of bed once a fortnight to sign on for it.

7,000 companies registered to only five addresses in London made claims to the furlough scheme between last December and June. Over that period they claimed up to £473 million between them.

The Management 21 Nov 21 13:53 
Surely it's time to do away with the biggest Ponzi scheme ever invented - the state pension. Or at least make it means tested like every other state benefit.



So why did David Lloyd George introduce National Insurance contributions?

He introduced them to provide for old people when they retired.

Crucially he set contributions at a level assuming the people claiming this benefit would only be claiming it for a couple of years before they popped their clogs! Had he (or some mega well rewarded actuaries over the years) realised that people would be claiming this benefit for 25, 30 or 40 years, he would almost certainly have thought twice about it or have set the level of contributions required at a significantly higher level.

The people on here moaning about benefit claimants as scroungers need to have a look at where the money paid to benefit claimants actually goes - i think it's about 47% that goes to benefit claimants that are claiming the state pension.

They will say "But i paid in all my life!" -  in reality they probably paid in enough to warrant about 5 years of claiming benefits, the rest is being subsidised by the young people that are paying in now and in all likelihood are also renting their properties from them!

The point is that it is not a benefit because people contribute to it throughout their working lives and all civilised countries have state pensions for older people. It is up to Parliament to decide the level of contributions and we are well behind many other countries .


Global Pension System Ranking by Country
Rank    Country    2020 Index Score
1    Netherlands    82.6
2    Denmark    81.4
3    Israel    74.7
4    Australia    74.2
5    Finland    72.9
6    Sweden    71.2
7    Singapore    71.2
8    Norway    71.2
9    Canada    69.3
10    New Zealand    68.3
11    Germany    67.3
12    Switzerland    67.0
13    Chile    67.0
14    Ireland    65.0
15    UK    64.9

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/042914/top-pension-sy...

My point, is that all the old f4rts on here complaining about benefit scroungers are themselves taking more out of the system than they ever put in. People in glass houses etc.

Sorry management, but having worked and contributed from the age of 15 and paying tax at PAYE I don't consider myself in a "glass house".

You can consider yourself however you like - but it's a mathematical fact that if you are claiming the benefit that they call the state pension and you live to the current average life expectancy - you will be taking a lot more out of the system than you have paid in.

It's not your fault that successive governments of all sides have failed to address it (actually they have all made it worse) and I'm not having a go at you - it's just a mathematical fact.

We will have to agree to disagree then on whether the state pension should be considered a benefit or otherwise.

I have to go out - but it is a state benefit and you won't find anybody of any political persuasion that calls it otherwise. If you are on a state pension, you are a benefit claimant.

Google - Pie chart for State Benefits (or similar)

It is classed as a benefit, but I cannot accept something which is compulsory for working people to pay for most of their lives in the same way as for example dole money.

The state pension is set below the threshold for claiming pension credit. So if they scrapped the state pension they wouldn't save much, they'd just have to pay out a lot more pension credit.


Most people who rely on the state pension have private pensions. The two added together takes them above the threshold for pension credit.
Which is what they've saved for all of their lives. Just to have a bit extra that they need for housing and heating repairs which the state does not meet for private property owners.

So the true cost of the State pension is not what it seems, because without it the bill for pension credit would have to rocket to compensate.

In fact, without the state pension there would be no point in most people taking out private pensions.
The state would have to pay out even more than they do now.

You surprise me sparrow (given your politics), I thought you were a socialist - but what you're saying is tantamount to what all the right wingers think (and want you to think too) i.e. some benefit claimants are scoundrels and others are upright citizens. All that money ("dole" and state pension) comes from the exact same place and it's all paid out to people that are deemed to need it for one reason or another.

Your attitude is no different to the right wingers - they openly despise socialism and worship "every man for himself" as a philosophy until they hit 65 years of age! Then despite having a handful of (now non-existent to new members) golden pensions and a portfolio of (very cheaply bought) rental properties - suddenly think that the state pension is an acceptable form of socialism even though they don't really need it at all.

Yet they continue to call anybody that is looking for a bit of fairness or compassion in society a champagne socialist!

The state pension is not classed as a benefit for the majority of state help schemes.

Management, I am a left winger and for most of my working life a Trade Union official but I will not accept that I look down on benefit claimants. You are simply putting words into my mouth because I seek to differentiate between pensions and other benefits. You then go on to that old chestnut of gold plated occupational pensions to try and justify your position.

If someone called you a Champagne Socialist it was not me.

If you are a "left winger" surely you think (like most other state benefits) it should be means tested?

Or are you ok with some kid earning just above the NI threshold subsidising a multi-millionaires that owns the flat they are renting?

I am a champagne socialist! - it doesn't bother me in the least as a tag. I don't see a conflict between having done well in life and ALSO having a social conscience!

pomagne socialist  a few rungs down the ladder!

anyone with an clue wouldnt describe themselves as a socialist of any kind given the human misery its wrought, china the latest disaster

mitolo - you seem like a well balanced sort of chap! - but you're quite right socialism doesn't work. Neither does communism and neither does capitalism. They are all extreme fixed/rigid philosophies (mindsets) that don't permit any flexibility or legislate for the application of (divergent) common sense solutions to difficult problems.

Most societal problems need an integrated long term solution - lurching from left to right every 10 years or so just exacerbates them. I know the internet is a fantasy world for fantasists - but you only have to read any noticeboard (like this one) for 10 minutes to realise that most people are fixed in their views and don't have any "range" to their thinking outside of those (often extreme) fixed views.

Sadly the real world also now largely reflects the views expressed on the internet - as somebody else commented on another thread, about nine times out of ten if somebody gives you their view on one topic, you can accurately project their view on pretty much every other topic. Sadly people with fixed views rarely find solutions to problems.

nonsense. stop trying to intellectualise what self-evident. there is no such thing as capitalism. its not an ism and is just the way people and society evolved. socialism, the stepping stone to communism, is a system of coercion and control that will never work, but its bonehead believers will not anbandon faith in the god that failed, over and over

*is

Getting back to benefits and for anyone that doesn't believe the state pension is a massive Ponzi scheme:

When Lloyd George introduced The National Insurance Act in 1911 (he actually nicked the idea from Asquith) the age for claiming was 70 and the average life expectancy for a man at the time was just 50. So it's fair to say that the payment (of 5 shillings per week) was sustainable when it was introduced - and it truly was (as the name still suggests and Insurance Scheme - like all insurance schemes - many pay in and few can expect to get a pat-out).

Fast forward to today and (until a very recent change) the age for claiming is 65 for a man and 60 for a woman and the average life expectancy for a man is now round about 80 and about 83 for a woman. Everybody has a massive claim that nobody ever budgeted for paying out!

It's just not sustainable and you can shout out "but paid in all me life" (as have I) - but you are still basically (be you a pauper or a billionaire) being subsidised by young people who in all likelihood will see the Ponzi scheme collapse long before they become eligible for their turn.

For the Tory fan boys that have wonderful private pension and multiple rental properties massive but still think the state pension is an entitlement - it's probably only fair to say that Llloyd George was actually one of your own - in so much as he survived several scandals relating to blatant corruption and rarely passed up the opportunity to do a bit of Insider Trading - so all the Tory fan boys can feel good about being a short-term socialist one day a month when you accept your state pension!

And we all lived happily ever after (mostly at the expense of our children and grandchildren)

Lloyd George followed the example of Germany, which under conservative Chancellor Otto von Bismarck had provided compulsory national insurance against sickness from 1884. After visiting Germany in 1908, Lloyd George said in his 1909 Budget speech that Britain should aim to be "putting ourselves in this field on a level with Germany; we should not emulate them only in armaments."

mitolo - i think you might be a hypocrite with shall we say "selective" values - you don't think your future son in law should be entitled to any support from the state (and might well be all the things you describe) - but I bet you aren't sending back or planning to send back all the child benefit you have received for your daughter, your state pension, your free tv licence, your winter fuel payment, your free bus pass, etc, etc, etc.

You say you don't like socialism (I'm not a huge fan of much of it myself) - but you're up for a bit of it (selectively) if you are on the receiving end.

sparrow - when yer man introduced it, it was administered locally and most crucially the insurance premiums that were paid in, were invested and ring-fenced for the rare occasions when a pay-out was required - it was sustainable a) because the money paid-in was used for the money to be paid out b) very few people (relatively speaking) actually got a pay out at all or if they did it wasn't for very long.

i.e. Yer man didn't run it as a Ponzi scheme, use a magic money tree or kick it down the road for some poor sods (that probably haven't been born yet) to sort out.

tbh - the history is irrelevant and I wouldn't be 100% certain my posts are 100% accurate - but you must get the gist of it - it's not fair and it's not sustainable.

Have a look at the private sector - google - pension fund deficit - some FTSE 100 companies are into a black hole for billions and billions of pounds. The actuaries and CEO's whose watch it happened on - they're on a beach in Barbados or in some cases at least had their ashes scattered there!

Obviously all of those schemes have been scaled way back and shut to new members (for all the reasons I have outlined) - if you don't think the same isn't on the way for state pensions you are just burying your head in the sand or doing an "I'm alright Jack!" - that's fine but as a statement it's in direct conflict with claiming to be a socialist!

over my body. i dont think an able-bodied fit male in norf london should be subsidised to sit around smoking weed. the poor dear dreams of being an actor.

benefits have nothing to do with socialism. you dont get any in cuba and nor did you in the ussr.

When he wins an Oscar perhaps you will get a mention in his acceptance speech for grassing him up anonymously and helping him to focus on his career. You probably knew deep down at the time that it was a noble act and you were doing it for his own good.

mitolo - it seems we are in violent agreement that socialism doesn't work, so presumably we are also in violent agreement that communism doesn't work either (Although you shouldn't knock Cuba - everybody drives a classic car and smokes big cigars!).

But seriously - My issue is that you seem so utterly closed to those concepts that you couldn't even consider what aspects of those philosophies/values/economic policies might have a place in a system that works well.

gobbledygook. your assumption is spectacularly wrong.

You mean those aren't classic cars they're all driving in Cuba?

Nobody will admit it, but virtually all the problems facing the UK today can be traced back to the mass immigration of unvetted, unchecked, economic migrants from Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

Too many woke teachers who don't believe in discipline or competition would be my answer to why we have so many in need of benefits while there are 1.25 million job vacancies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CiGUMQZUgU

Thanks a lot for that Layemall! 

Those two were a huge loss to the teaching profession - and for very little upside to the world of light entertainment - a very regrettable coincidence from my point of view.

State Pension taxable so the Treasury receive 20% (or more) back.  Universal Credit not taxable.  Is this reflected in the earlier figures?

If you are ill, disabled or have recently lost your job , being made to jump through hoops to get a feeble amount is not acceptable.
If you are young and fit, with huge job vacancies, you should be made to work 40 hours doing menial work for the council for your money. A large % would be unable to fulfil such a requirement due to prior engagements(also known a cash work) and the remainder would surprise themselves and take a job they now found acceptable. It would slash the bill over night.

Correct swift but doesn't go down well with the human rights act

yes ladycarla, 'uman rights, minimum wage etc, sadly forbids what the vast majority would find acceptable.

If you just forced them all to deliver parcels and pizzas that would be a near perfect fit with those 1.25 million job vacancies ()that people keep banging on about - two birds, one stone, jobs a good un!

Well obviously the jobs only a good un if - you can drive, you own your own vehicle, you want a zero hours contract with a very low rate of pay, a flat rate of pay no matter how many (or which) hours you work, not knowing how many hours you will get, no paid holiday, no sick pay, no pension, no prospects.

Applicants with experience of playing "knock door run" are obviously given priority. If you've got a mortgage, children or just simply live in real world it's probably not for you, so anyone looking for a real job is probably fecked.