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penzance
16 Oct 21 22:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 26 Feb 04
| Topic/replies: 11,738 | Blogger: penzance's blog
He's been charged by the BHA,what happens?
Does he get a ban or fine?
cheers.
Pause Switch to Standard View Robbie Dunne/Bryony Frost...
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Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk December 1, 2021 4:10 PM GMT
Duncan you said the names you quoted were misogynistic. If women use them and they do then are they misogynistic?
Try to stick to what I said.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk December 1, 2021 4:14 PM GMT
Blacks use the n word to each other not as a slur
Blacks object to white people using the n word
This is pretty basic stuff
Report Latalomne December 1, 2021 4:23 PM GMT
Isn't the whole thing 95% he said-she said with much of what's been alleged not corroborated by other parties supposedly affected?  Unless someone else comes out and backs her, it's hard to see what will be done.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk December 1, 2021 4:25 PM GMT
Agreed
Report sparrow December 1, 2021 4:32 PM GMT
Latalomne 01 Dec 21 16:23 
Isn't the whole thing 95% he said-she said with much of what's been alleged not corroborated by other parties supposedly affected?  Unless someone else comes out and backs her, it's hard to see what will be done.





I think we need to hear all the evidence before speculating.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk December 1, 2021 4:54 PM GMT
Laugh
Too late.
Report shoodacoodadidnt December 1, 2021 5:22 PM GMT
my ex kindly told me I was a misogynist - funny how when you hate ONE woman, that somehow means you hate them all ...... when you have to fight tooth and nail to get equal custody of your children in this country, it can be hard to stay sympathetic with the so-called "fairer" sex ......
Report duffy December 1, 2021 5:29 PM GMT
my ex kindly told me I was a misogynist - funny how when you hate ONE woman, that somehow means you hate them all LaughLaugh

How the fook am I a mysogynist woman, you're the only one I hate, the rest are OK.

That is a great line Sir.Grin
Report Chadfan December 1, 2021 5:30 PM GMT
There are going to be young boys and girls who dream of being a jockey watching all this, thinking do I want to go into a career where bullying and offensive language is the norm. I don't think so. NH horse racing needs to wake up.
So called senior jockeys in the NH game should be ashamed of themselves. Scudamore apparently says this sort of thing happens regularly. Shame on them!
Report shoodacoodadidnt December 1, 2021 5:41 PM GMT
Thank you Duffy Happy
Report 1st time poster December 1, 2021 5:42 PM GMT
shouldnt be a surprise
fighting for rides
100,s of jocks with drink,drug,mental health problems
bed hopping
fighting their weight
living on fresh air

everything in place for everyone to be one incident from exploding and we get enough public rows to no there must be 100,s away from public eye
Report lead on December 1, 2021 7:15 PM GMT
Can't envisage Frost engaging in the bed hopping...maybe that's one of her problems
Report unitedbiscuits December 1, 2021 8:00 PM GMT
Imagine Frodon winning the KG on Boxing Day. Would be the greatest story involving horse racing since Seabiscuit.
Report tony6499 December 1, 2021 8:22 PM GMT
Scudamore not spoken to her since she made the complaint, he's not coming off well either. Hopefully a few owners might be considering their riding arrangements going forward after this
Report Chadfan December 1, 2021 8:27 PM GMT
I respect Venetia Williams, but I wonder if she will continue to use Robbie Dunne after these revalations?
I will respect her even more if she doesn't.
Report carrot1960 December 1, 2021 8:43 PM GMT
As well as questioning what was actually said in exchanges between the pair, Dunne’s representative also suggested that it was one rule for his client and another for other male jockeys when it came to Frost’s allegations.

He highlighted the fact that other male jockey’s teased Frost and one had even called her a ‘c***’, but said Moore, she had not seen that as bullying or harassment.

‘You made it clear that you don’t have a problem with that jockey [who called you a c***],’ said Mr Moore.



‘So a senior jockey calls you a c***, but that’s fine… Other jockeys tease you but that’s just teasing, it’s fine… But you say if Mr Dunne teases you that is somehow different?’

Frost, who at times became tearful under intense questioning, insisted it was different with Dunne


So it's not the word she objects too , but who uses it when addressing her , do me a favour
Report Dr Gonzo December 1, 2021 9:10 PM GMT
I mean, if that’s the level of the defence that Dunne’s rep is able to put up, he’s in trouble.
Report Wesdag December 1, 2021 9:21 PM GMT
Dunne's done imo.
Report Chadfan December 1, 2021 9:54 PM GMT
She said the other jockey had apologised shortly afterwards. Something Dunne should have done a year ago.
Report SontaranStratagem December 2, 2021 2:50 AM GMT
Am I the only one questioning what was she doing in the men's changing room? Men we are childish idiots and I bet hes done that to other lads ffs

If women cant take the idiot banter then dont go in there in my opinion

As per its all the blokes fault despite the lass being in the wrong dressing room
Report SontaranStratagem December 2, 2021 2:51 AM GMT
A group of women are perfect angels Mischief
Report Movewiththetimes December 2, 2021 2:54 AM GMT
BHA will still have one changing room in 20 years, they don't move fast unless it's to the bar LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report SontaranStratagem December 2, 2021 3:10 AM GMT
Surely women dont go in the men’s changing room??

The sight of all those winkies could kill them
Report SontaranStratagem December 2, 2021 3:13 AM GMT
As for the cutting across him in a race well she deserved a b0llocking

We’ve currently got the tylicki gibbons trial to back up aggressive riding
Report LoyalHoncho December 2, 2021 8:01 AM GMT
Fair point but I consider her riding to be negligent as opposed to aggressive.  She just lets horses take their own course into fences.
Report LoyalHoncho December 2, 2021 8:07 AM GMT
Chadfan   01 Dec 21 20:27
So actual riding ability is no longer to be the maxim by which trainers will/should choose their jockeys?
Yet more utter hysteria from this forum.
Report Dr Gonzo December 2, 2021 8:33 AM GMT

Dec 1, 2021 -- 8:50PM, SontaranStratagem wrote:


Am I the only one questioning what was she doing in the men's changing room? Men we are childish idiots and I bet hes done that to other lads ffsIf women cant take the idiot banter then dont go in there in my opinion As per its all the blokes fault despite the lass being in the wrong dressing room


Because even if courses actually provide single-sex facilities, the valets are all male and a woman will have to go into the male dressing room to get anything they need. I’m not sure why that means a male rider would have to open their towel in front of a woman - that seems like quite an easy thing to avoid doing

Report irishone December 2, 2021 9:02 AM GMT
How can a person have the iron will to get up on the back of a thouroughbred

Jump fences at 35 miles an hour

Born into an "industry" that is sexist, racist, mysonginist, capitalistic and originates from landed gentry

Complain about a bit of banter in a dressing room ?

Attention seeking
Report irishone December 2, 2021 9:10 AM GMT
Of course robbie is done....

....do you think he will ultimately care ?

Its another example of this stupid situation where you have "a common travel agreement" but if you go to the u k ....you have to abide by their cultures and their relatively fascist laws concerning hate crimes like racism, freedom of speech and freedom to protest.

Like allowing hungarian or polish football supporters to.come into your country and attempting to beat them up when they mock and dont take the knee.
Report Storm Alert December 2, 2021 9:26 AM GMT
Not saying she isn't right to bring this issue to the forefront, but can't help feeling Ms Frost has not done herself any favours considering her career could last another 10 years. It's the sort of cause that she is fighting for where she really needs the backing of the other women in the weighing room and she doesn't appear to have got that. Will be ostracised in the weighing room going forward, who is going to risk interacting with her going forward?
Report 1st time poster December 2, 2021 9:40 AM GMT
she brought it to the forefront doubled down on it at a stage when she was getting rides,winners and the fact she wasnt brought media attention to it,she won KG  a few months later if she,d KNOWN SHE WAS GOING TO WIN kg ,ALL THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT IN HOUSE
Report sparrow December 2, 2021 9:58 AM GMT
1st time poster... That champion of women in racing is thoroughly enjoying this case!
Report layingisthewayforward December 2, 2021 10:15 AM GMT
I'm all for a bit of bantz but Dunne sounds like a right c*nt to me!
Report elise December 2, 2021 10:43 AM GMT
i'd disagree that he's done, i think part of the approach he's taken is to admit one aspect and then denied the remainder, he's gone for something that might get him a couple of weeks rather than a couple of years (which it could be if he's found guilty on some of the worse charges), which also gives the panel and the bha a get out. personally I still think he's going to get a small slap on the wrists but I can't see him losing his licence, unless they have witnesses to some of the higher charges i think he's unlikely to be found in breach, whether he did it or not
Report sparrow December 2, 2021 10:47 AM GMT
You're probably right elise as the BHA will be keen to take an easy way out.
Report carrot1960 December 2, 2021 10:55 AM GMT
We get it neither jockey likes each other , but the fact that at least one other jockey has called her a c***  over her riding and she says nothing, but goes after Dunne because she doesn't like the "manner in which he called her a c*** " speaks volumes
Report elise December 2, 2021 11:05 AM GMT
in a similar way the gibbons case highlights the closed shop mentality and self policing that goes on, the questions even a non racing person should ask is where is the governing body whether in the stewarding or weighing room on this because once again they are being made to look like a dogs dinner, this has taken months to even get this far and it's laughable
Report Stevo December 2, 2021 11:15 AM GMT

Dec 2, 2021 -- 4:43AM, elise wrote:


i'd disagree that he's done, i think part of the approach he's taken is to admit one aspect and then denied the remainder, he's gone for something that might get him a couple of weeks rather than a couple of years (which it could be if he's found guilty on some of the worse charges), which also gives the panel and the bha a get out. personally I still think he's going to get a small slap on the wrists but I can't see him losing his licence, unless they have witnesses to some of the higher charges i think he's unlikely to be found in breach, whether he did it or not


I wouldnt be so sure.
The moral hyteria going on everywhere since George Floyd is skewing even the most basic rational judgement.
The Azeem Rafiq witch hunt being the latest McCarthyieque circus
Racing might want to make a 'statement' that it wont stand for such actions - blah - blah Ad nauseam
Wouldnt surprise me if they throw the book at him.

Report 1st time poster December 2, 2021 11:17 AM GMT
dangerous throwing books from top of slippery slopes
Report elise December 2, 2021 11:23 AM GMT
i think as above they will get him on some lesser charges but the 15k 3 years ban stuff is just not happening for me, but if you're right stevo along with the FT/GG case it may not make racing look good once again to the average punter, there might not be a good outcome at all for anyone
Report Slicer December 2, 2021 11:26 AM GMT
Well said Stevo. Examples have to be made. A perfect case of moral hysteria is that there is currently what I regard as an appealing t shirt being advertised on a link on twitter. The t shirt has a photo of the dog breed of your choice in a mug shot pose with the logo "Personal stalker, I will go wherever you go, bathroom included!". The moral outrage is remarkable with accusations of misogynism or worse. To me it's a bit of fun. To others it's the crime of the century. Surely a balanced view is needed. Not a chance- vested interests. Where people are involved it's difficult to decipher the truth. The people who want personal freedom won't allow personal freedom.
Report elise December 2, 2021 11:32 AM GMT
slicer, no panel is going to find him guilty on the higher charges without evidence, they'd be talking about taking away his livelihood and he'd be taking them straight to court, if the evidence is there then fair enough, so far i don't see it
Report Slicer December 2, 2021 11:42 AM GMT
I'm not excusing any bullying or other behaviour that can be proved to have taken place. It's a no win situation for the sport. It should have been sorted when it happened but like a lot of things regarding the Sport of Kings, it's been put aside until something gets caught in the fan & then there is an outpouring from those holier than though. After all this time, with the imperfection of memory, with fellow jocks taking sides, how can the actual truth come out.Even on this thread posters view the same events from a different direction. It's a tough call.
Report elise December 2, 2021 11:44 AM GMT
it is a tough call and as above i don't think there's a winner in this, the bha have once again been woeful in their handling
Report mrcombustible December 2, 2021 12:13 PM GMT
I doubt Dunne would have the resources to take the BHA to the High Court if he loses.
Report LoyalHoncho December 2, 2021 12:16 PM GMT
Oh they will "throw the book at him".  That is why so much has been leaked in advance, to curry support from the people who make up forums like this, and the wider public.  This has been set up in advance to create a tsunami of sentiment against the guy and pillory him, and comply with the raging feminist agenda which proclaims that the "patriarchal society" is rotten to the core.  It;s disgusting and the BHA have shown themselves to be utterly incompetent and untrustworthy.
Report G Hall December 2, 2021 12:19 PM GMT
As regards BF not getting backed up by colleagues male or female  doesn't necessarily mean anything, often times people who are bullied are isolated and sometimes the mob culture can take over. A lot of people observe but don't get involved,I'm not saying that is the case here.
Report kevinglass December 2, 2021 12:20 PM GMT
The silence of the other jockeys, valets etc highlights how difficult it is for anything to be properly proven. It doesn't reflect well on the witnesses who have not come forward.

For what it's worth, on what I have read so far I'm inclined to believe her. The majority of the jocks have closed ranks. Jealousy, and vested interests in a very small group of people.

The fact that she has been/is being ostracised, and probably knew she would be, makes her complaint a pretty brave thing to do.

I hope owners continue to support her after the case.
Report elise December 2, 2021 12:23 PM GMT
whichever side you take or however you view the whole episode, the biggest failings are still with the bha
Report The Management December 2, 2021 12:23 PM GMT
Blame it on the rail network imo - most of the fractured factions that run racing have been waiting for an eternity to catch a train into the 21st Century. A fair few trains probably passed through while said fractured factions were all busy arguing about who should drive the bus to the train station.

Meanwhile the real world looks on and rightly thinks the whole thing is a train-wreck.
Report SlippyBlue December 2, 2021 12:39 PM GMT
A train wreck is right, racing getting in the news for all the wrong reasons.
Report sparrow December 2, 2021 1:01 PM GMT
If the stewards would just use the dangerous riding rule instead of pretending it doesn't exist then most of these incidents would cease to occur.
Report Slicer December 2, 2021 1:06 PM GMT
SOS- Spot On Sparrow!
Report geoff m December 2, 2021 1:24 PM GMT
Lunchtime update:
Robbie Dunne’s alleged verbal abuse of Bryony Frost at Stratford in July last year was described as a “whoa moment” by a fence attendant who claims Frost was called a “f****** s***”.

The male fence attendant, who cannot be named,

As a neutral he can come and tell it like it is.. Unlike the weighing room.
Report sparrow December 2, 2021 1:26 PM GMT
My post was meant for the Tylicki/ Gibbons thread and nothing to do with this matter.  Apologies for the above mistake.
Report Slicer December 2, 2021 1:27 PM GMT
The principle still applies though!
Report sparrow December 2, 2021 1:28 PM GMT
Agreed of course, slicer.
Report elise December 2, 2021 1:33 PM GMT
geoff, can you rem if that's the one he's admitted but disputes her version of the language, because they knew the fence bloke was coming in and is likely to be the decider for that charge?
Report geoff m December 2, 2021 1:38 PM GMT
No Elise. Different cases .Hes admitted to an offence @ Southwell but im almost sure this fence attendant was @Stratford.
Report geoff m December 2, 2021 1:39 PM GMT
which if thats the case clearly doesnt help him.
Report elise December 2, 2021 1:50 PM GMT
no, that was the one to admit really because it's from outside the weighing room
Report dr . atkins December 2, 2021 2:07 PM GMT
robbie dunne like to bully female jockeys end of
Report xmoneyx December 2, 2021 2:09 PM GMT
'SHUT UP & GET ON WITH IT' Trainer Iain Jardine deletes controversial tweet amid Bryony Frost vs Robbie Dunne case after fierce backlash
Report Gordon63 December 2, 2021 2:21 PM GMT
the stratford witness shames all the mentioned jockeys and Dunne has left no doubt that he's a prize knob and should not be anywhere near women in the workplace end of...
Report truehoncho December 2, 2021 2:24 PM GMT
As a neutral he can come and tell it like it is.. Unlike the weighing room.  -- Who says he's neutral? Just because he isn't a jockey doesn't mean he isn't biased. Plenty of virtue signallers out there would love a chance to stick their oars in.
Report Gordon63 December 2, 2021 2:26 PM GMT
FFS all the Dunne apologists are going to hate the outcome of this sorry case but I doubt it will change any of their opinions, too entrenched in their own fantasy worlds...thankfully the real world is moving on...
Report truehoncho December 2, 2021 2:29 PM GMT
I tend to wait for the outcome Gordon. I suppose you fancy yourself as judge and jury. Too many like you about I'm afraid.
Report 1st time poster December 2, 2021 2:40 PM GMT
the man at the fence said it stood out from other things he,d heard
so will he tell us what  else he,d heard and why one seemed bothered about it
Report mrcombustible December 2, 2021 2:59 PM GMT
Anytime I have stood by a fence (Sandown) all I could hear were jockeys swearing at one another
Report 1st time poster December 2, 2021 3:14 PM GMT
this is where weve got to its only been talked about considered because its male v female
nothing been said that hasnt been said and far worse between two male jocks,weve had actual fights and fisti cuffs,attacking people from with whips shown on live tv,lord no,s whats gone on behind camera,in the other case gibbons allegedly been threatened by a former senior jockey,
none of which makes it right but i,d imagine if you went the other way opened door,s, after you,can i help you with anything you,d be called patronising or creepy
Report Gordon63 December 2, 2021 3:20 PM GMT
has time passed you by 1st time? it's PRECISELY because it's male VERSUS female that there is a case to answer although more males are not immune to being bullied...no employer can accept a situation where half of the population feel unable to work for them because of the 'bullying culture' which seems prevalent in racing, it seems as if racing, as one of the industries which remains relatively unchanged over past 50 years or so (considering the majority of traditional industries e.g mining, shipbuilding, steelworks, manufacturing in general) have fallen by the wayside, is going to have to be dragged into the present...
Report racing6699 December 2, 2021 3:22 PM GMT
It seems its pretty toxic culture imo - and aside from even what the outcome of this case, the one thing this at least does it hopefully changes all of their behaviour for the better. people should aspire higher than swearing abuse being acceotable etc...
Report geoff m December 2, 2021 3:28 PM GMT
1st time poster02 Dec 21 15:14Joined: 25 Dec 05 | Topic/replies: 49,523 | Blogger: 1st time poster's blog

this is where weve got to its only been talked about considered because its male v female

Would we had got to this stage if it had been Dunne the alleged perpetrator V McCoy or Walsh.

Of course we wouldnt .As Dunne wouldnt have said 2 hoots
Report tony6499 December 2, 2021 4:41 PM GMT
All the jockeys keeping their mouths shut should be ashamed, Adam Wedge the latest to be named. I would be very wary of booking a jockey at the moment as so many seem to be hard of hearing and have sight problems
Report CROPSICK December 2, 2021 4:57 PM GMT
Listening to Greg wood report on ATR is like drawing teeth
Report duffy December 2, 2021 4:59 PM GMT
They kept quiet because they don't like Frost, if it was Blackmore, Dunne would have been dealt with immediately.
Report fife December 2, 2021 5:48 PM GMT
Female jockeys should only speak when spoken to and just be thankful they are allowed to compete with the men and god help them if they become popular with TV audiences.
Report sparrow December 2, 2021 5:52 PM GMT
Grin  They even have the audacity to ocassionally beat the men.
Report shoodacoodadidnt December 2, 2021 5:55 PM GMT
Can you imagine if a woman was heard to call a man a "f****** s***" and the man decided on legal recourse. All(females and males) would laugh at such an idea. We certainly live in strange times. And I'm not defending Dunne ..... I've heard enough to imagine there is some 'fire' not just smoke..... and of course, I can't KNOW .... very few will really KNOW ..... try watching a few hours of those real life murder programmes on Netflix and see if you can reach a decision you're sure about after hours of seeing it from all angles ..... it's tough to get to the truth of ANYTHING.
Report duffy December 2, 2021 5:57 PM GMT
And that's before you even mention that one of them is the best jockey man or woman
Report 1st time poster December 2, 2021 6:00 PM GMT
what truth are they looking for
dunnes admitted one breach
are they looking for evidence of BF,s dangerous riding,and even if some agree she,s got a case to answer were dunnes actions a fair response
outside of the weighing rooms unwritten code,he hasnt a lef to stand on
modern day FEW GOOD MEN without the death
Report doorman99 December 2, 2021 7:27 PM GMT
Laughable that Miss Hannah Welch (7) who is now retired is the only one supporting her, could it just be coincidence that her parents have had horses in training with Jimmy frost in the past! Was that mentioned? I very much doubt it. Polo The Mumm, Vertige Dore and Politeo 3 off the top of my head.
Report mrcombustible December 2, 2021 7:43 PM GMT
The panel also heard on Thursday from Chris Watts, who led the British Horseracing Authority’s investigation of Frost’s complaint before resigning from his post as head of integrity assurance in September 2021.

Moore asked Watts about his relationship with Jimmy Frost, Bryony Frost’s father. He suggested that Watts had once claimed that Jimmy Frost was “a good friend” and that he had stayed in a converted double-decker bus which Frost rents out as a holiday home.

Watts said the claim was “absolutely ludicrous”, adding: “I can 150% assure you I have only been on one occasion and that was on 16 October 2020 [to take a statement from Frost]”. Watts also denied having failed to include statements from jockeys Tom Scudamore and Gavin Sheehan which were critical of Bryony Frost’s riding style in the final report into his investigation.

Moore told Watts that Scudamore subsequently told another BHA investigator that he has “issues with her riding”, and that he had “on occasion experienced difficulties with what I would describe as her lack of respect for other riders and her lack of spatial awareness when racing”.
Report doorman99 December 2, 2021 7:45 PM GMT
4/5 Dunne 5/4 Frost after tdy.
Report kevinglass December 2, 2021 7:53 PM GMT
Just because the defence state something, it doesn't mean it's true.

Clutching at straws, springs to mind re the Jimmy Frost good friend comment. It suggests the defence doesn't have a lot to produce. In fact they seem to be relying on the code of silence in the weighing room.

Overall the weighing room doesn't sound like a great place to start work, no wonder a huge proportion of jockeys are sons of jockeys, daughters of jockeys, or closely related. A scary place to step in to if you have no connections to help you.
Report mitolo December 2, 2021 8:29 PM GMT
its a tragic fact that a massively disproportionate number of female jockeys are killed in racing. why is a matter for conjecture, but it could be that spatial awareness has something to do with it. it could be something else or many things, but its a fact.

if id put this up without this context, i.e 'i do not think female spatial awareness is at the same level as that of a man, you only have to look at a woman parking a car to see a harmless example of it' i would be howled down and no doubt the m word would appear.

men and women are different in many ways, but this 'difference' is beyond discussion. useless aggressive feckless geezers add up to 'toxic masculinity', an incredibly sexist term that hatched in academia and has reached the mainstream and wouldnt be tolerated as a generic insult towards women. no chance. sorry for the mansplaining.
Report Dr Gonzo December 2, 2021 8:49 PM GMT
Jesus wept. Where to even start with that ffs
Report The Management December 2, 2021 8:51 PM GMT
mitolo just about stopped short of saying:

Them women than can park a car as well as the next man - they're all lesbians! BlushLaugh
Report mitolo December 2, 2021 9:07 PM GMT
you can start wherever you like bozo. female jockeys suffer a terrible toll compared to men. fact. i only brought it up because 'spatial awareness' was highlighted by a senior jockey as a possible reason for this sorry episode. i didnt say it was absolute. 'it could be something else' is a clue.

and please tell me how toxic masculinity has become a routine misandrist(look it up) term. and do you believe similarly anti-female terminology would be acceptable?

tm; no i didnt. dont put your childish unfunny words into my gob. you aint funny or clever. and please highlight what is untrue.
Report The Management December 2, 2021 9:11 PM GMT
When I was office based (many years ago) I had an office overlooking the car park in an almost exclusively male office - back then the spaces were larger and the cars were smaller. I still got some entertainment most days!

What is your view on ironing - are you going to make a case that women have better hand-eye co-ordination?
Report The Management December 2, 2021 9:16 PM GMT
Also - The senior jockey you reference (if it's who I think it is) probably wouldn't want to take part in a discussion about nepotism in racing.

The irony of Frost in that context is not wasted on me - racing has a lot of problems but it doesn't seem to have many people capable of recognising them, let alone dealing with them.
Report carrot1960 December 2, 2021 9:20 PM GMT
Having just watched the race in question it is hard to see what Dunne had to complain about , but Frost's reaction when he is supposed to have swore at her and threatened to murder her was as cool as a cucumber , go take a look .
Report mitolo December 2, 2021 9:30 PM GMT
what you did 1 million years ago ago is irrelevant. and anecdote is always a bad example. even an idiot like you should realise that. you appear to be evading the point. ive previously stated that the balance of probability is that dunne is guilty and a wrong un. but its hearsay, not evidence.


ironing indeed. i have a wardrobe full of non-iron shirts, or 'shirts'. as i call them.
Report mitolo December 2, 2021 9:32 PM GMT
nepotism is not at issue
Report mitolo December 2, 2021 9:36 PM GMT
and, btw, im not anti-frost. despite her old man falling off little polvier the year before when id backed it and winning when i hadnt. if i was betting man id have me cobblers on her rather than dunne telling the truth.
Report The Management December 2, 2021 9:38 PM GMT
AP pretty much did it pretty much routinely (same manoeuvre - and often deliberate) he was 20 times (consecutive) champion jockey and he got a knighthood - nobody accused him of lacking spatial awareness, physically threatened him or waved their wanger at him afterwards imo.
Report The Management December 2, 2021 10:01 PM GMT
You watching women park badly is evidence of their lack of spatial awareness.
Me watching men park badly is just anecdotal?

I think nepotism is a massive issue in racing - if you want mediocrity and to maintain the status quo indefinitely, nepotism is a good way to do it - but you'll wake up one day and realise that your 21st century Sport or Business is stuck in the 1900's.
I'd choose meritocracy over nepotism (and the resultant mediocrity) every time - of all the people in the world, what are the chances that your son/daughter/nephew is the best person for the job?
Report mitolo December 2, 2021 10:11 PM GMT
youve got too worked up about spatial awareness. men and women have different abilities in different areas, hence the coming disaster of trans-sportspeople, which is going to get a lot worse. i merely pointed out that the massively-higher death toll among female jockeys could have something to do with it, but it was beyond discussion because it might infer that one of those differences could be because men are genetically more able at some things than women. as we know, women are better at everything.

and i note you dont argue that 'toxic masculinity' is a sexist term that couldnt be replicated the other way round. and then you bring up ironing

ive said this already but; i know a jock who got his face bashed in by another, and pretended it was from a fall. i dont like it. it is classed as 'bullying in the workplace' and if it happened in an office hed have got handsomely paid-off for it. but that aint the way it works(or doesnt) and im not saying its acceptable. hed never have gone to a tribunal, as frosty has. whats worse?

the lack of separartion of changing rooms is the solution, and im surprised it hadnt happened long ago. recently, page fuller and some geezer i cant remember had a slanging match at newbury(my bias towrads the lady is clear. cant remember him) but its all finished if they retire to a different place.
Report The Management December 2, 2021 10:24 PM GMT
Mitolo - no worries. I have probably taken you too literally on the spatial awareness - but i'm not wrong about a 21st Century sport operating in it's own little outdated bubble on many levels and many issues (not just the gender issue). GL.
Report mitolo December 2, 2021 10:26 PM GMT
amen brother. allahu akbar
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