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penzance
16 Oct 21 22:36
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Date Joined: 26 Feb 04
| Topic/replies: 11,792 | Blogger: penzance's blog
He's been charged by the BHA,what happens?
Does he get a ban or fine?
cheers.

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By:
swiftynifty
When: 16 Oct 21 22:51
If what he said is correct, he should have his licence removed. Dangerous enough game without idiots like him about.
By:
carrot1960
When: 16 Oct 21 22:54
What he supposedly said is well  out of order , but there again neither is putting other riders  continually at risk as he alleges
By:
San Quentin
When: 16 Oct 21 23:03
Exactly carrot,get a grip the pc brigade,it's a really hard world out there Miss Frost imo find another profession.
By:
swiftynifty
When: 16 Oct 21 23:08
what the hell has it got to do with PC? If a bloke threatens you injury you deal with it, as a woman Bryony is not in that posiotion so needs some protection from such idiots.
By:
windsor knot
When: 17 Oct 21 00:25
im surprised most of his horses can lay a glove on hers after a mile or so ...i would put up  bryony anyday in front of him .
By:
LoyalHoncho
When: 17 Oct 21 04:00
If she would keep her horses straight approaching fences there wouldn't be an issue.  Would there?  Even old Brough Scott saw fit to comment on it one day.
By:
mrcombustible
When: 17 Oct 21 07:26
Loyalhoncho, well said
By:
mrcombustible
When: 17 Oct 21 08:09
David Walsh
Saturday October 16 2021, 6.00pm, The Sunday Times
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By mid-September last year, Bryony Frost had decided enough was enough. On Tuesday the 15th she made an official complaint to the British Horseracing Authority (BHA) that her fellow jockey Robbie Dunne had been subjecting her to bullying and harassment in her place of work. Three weeks later Frost detailed the incidents that underpinned her complaint in a five-page statement.

On December 2, Chris Watts, then head of integrity at the BHA, formally interviewed Dunne at Warwick racecourse. During their hour-long meeting, Dunne agreed that there were difficulties between him and Frost but that this was down to what he saw as her “careless” style of riding. In one particular race at Southwell three months before, he alleged Frost’s riding had caused his horse, Cillian’s Well, to fall and be fatally injured. He denied most of Frost’s allegations.

The case has serious implications for horseracing, a sport that allows men and women to compete on a level playing field and which has recently witnessed remarkable success for female jockeys. Three months after contacting the BHA, Frost, then 25, rode Frodon to victory at the King George VI Chase at Kempton, the most prestigious race over the Christmas period.


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Two-and-a-half months later, the Irish jockey Rachael Blackmore rode six winners in the Cheltenham Festival and became the first woman to win the Ruby Walsh Trophy, presented to the leading rider at the meeting. It was a joyous moment for sport as there had once been a mistaken belief that women could not successfully compete against men in a sport as physically demanding as jump racing.

The sport has benefited from the perception of inclusiveness and the excitement generated by Frost and Blackmore’s victories. Given this context, the BHA was always going to treat Frost’s allegation seriously.

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Watts’s report, which The Sunday Times has seen, runs to more than 120 pages and examines forensically the relationship between Frost and Dunne, while also considering the overall culture of the weighing room. It notes that “the evidential burden on the BHA is to prove on the balance of probabilities that the conduct in question occurred as alleged and amounted to bullying and harassment. The BHA believes that it did.”

The report was submitted in April and is accompanied by a letter, which informs Dunne, now aged 42, that it contains formal charges against him, including “conduct prejudicial to the integrity or good reputation” of the sport. It makes clear that an oral hearing will consider whether he is in breach.

Frost believes the ill-feeling between her and Dunne stretches back to when she was an amateur jockey, before 2017. “I recall being in the men’s changing room and he would stand in front of me naked,” she claims. “I didn’t want this and none of the other jockeys were like that. I would try my hardest to avoid him at all times. He was the type of person that I did not want to be around.

“As I became more established in the weighing room and gained more confidence, I spoke out about his behaviour. I said to him words like, ‘Stop it, I don’t like that.’ I told him that his behaviour was inappropriate, and to leave me alone. This was when I was a conditional [novice]. I cannot recall exact dates, racecourses, witnesses or conversations. They were all incidents that I have never tried to recall or ever wanted to.”

The ill-feeling hung between them. Then over a period from July to September last year there were three incidents that led to Frost going to the authorities. At Stratford on July 8, Frost rode Wisecracker in a handicap chase. Dunne’s mount in the same race was Cillian’s Well.

Reviewed now, it looks nothing more than a run-of-the-mill midweek steeplechase. Wisecracker and Frost finished second, Dunne’s horse came in sixth. After they had passed the winning post and were in the pull-up area, Dunne came alongside Frost and a verbal altercation ensued.

In her statement to the BHA, Frost recalled what she claims happened next. “Robbie cantered up to me,” she claims, “and said something on the lines of, ‘You’re a f***ing ****, you’re a dangerous c***’, and ‘If you ever f***ing murder [cut across] me like that again, I’ll murder you.’ I didn’t know what he was talking about. I had ridden the inside line the majority of the way and no one had given me a shout [asking for space]. The sport is dangerous enough without adding to it and you don’t want to hurt anyone.

“Feeling very shaken and questioning my ride, I called my dad on the way home and asked him to look at the race. He said there was only one time Robbie Dunne and I were near each other, so he must have been referring to then. He said he couldn’t see anything wrong with my riding and if the stewards didn’t call me in, then they must have felt the same. That was the first time I really got upset. I had done nothing wrong.”

Frost with Frodon, with whom she has a special connection, after winning the Ryanair Chase on day three of the Cheltenham Festival
Frost with Frodon, with whom she has a special connection, after winning the Ryanair Chase on day three of the Cheltenham Festival
DAVID FITZGERALD/GETTY
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In his interview with the BHA investigators, Dunne denied using the c-word or calling Frost “a f***ing ****” and insisted that her recollection was inaccurate. “What might you have said?” he was asked. He replied: “What were you doing there? That’s dangerous.” In the report, it is acknowledged that when jockeys describe a rival cutting across them or taking their ground, they speak colloquially of being “murdered”.

That Frost and Dunne compete in a sport that involves much unavoidable danger was apparent after they had ridden in the ARC Racing Club Handicap Chase on September 3 last year. This was almost two months after their altercation at Stratford. Again, Wisecracker and Cillian’s Well were their respective mounts.

Frost finished second, Cillian’s Well and Dunne fell four fences from the finish, at a moment in the race when they were tracking Wisecracker. In her interview with the BHA, Frost recalled that she was in the weighing room an hour after the race when Dunne approached. “The next time I ride against you I promise I will put you through a wing [the rail marking the edge of the course],” she claims he said. Frost then gave her recollection of what happened next.

“After threatening me, Robbie walked off. It was at that stage when I felt I had had enough. I couldn’t take his bullying and threats any longer. I asked, ‘Robbie, what’s your problem?’ And he responded aggressively, ‘My problem is you murder f***ing everyone and I promise you the next time we ride against each other I am going to hurt you.’ The valets would have heard this, everyone in the weighing room would have heard. I became very worried for my safety.

“I went on to say something on the lines of, ‘OK, so you want to hurt me, so what’s that going to achieve, what is this all about. This just can’t be about today. Let’s say you do hurt me, you’re going to get a ban, it’s going to cost you winners, all for what? You have had a vendetta against me for as long as I can remember.’ My voice was calm, I was trying to calm the whole situation down.”

She goes on to allege that “he laughed, he had his back to me getting changed and then he turned to me and said with the same aggression, ‘I promise you I am going to hurt you. Watch the replay, you completely cut my head off.’ I replied, ‘I watched the replay, I was nowhere near you.’

“Feeling very shaky I pulled myself together as I had another race. However, after it, I burst into tears and I couldn’t go out for 20 minutes. It’s the first time that I put my saddle on the table and thought I don’t want to be here anymore. I was so distressed I couldn’t even pack my own bag.”

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It was put to Dunne that he’d threatened to put Frost “through a wing and hurt [her]”. He responded: “Well, it was like, ‘I’ll put you through a wing and you’ll probably get [hurt],’ not that ‘You’ll get hurt’ but ‘If you get hurt it’s the only way you’re gonna learn because you’re repeatedly doing this,’ not that ‘I’m going to hurt you’. She was like, ‘I’ll report you to the stewards. What good is that for you?’ Blah, blah, blah. She said, ‘You’ve a problem with me.’ But it’s not a problem with her, a female. It’s like the horses are getting killed because of someone’s irresponsibility.”

Four days later, while being driven from Edinburgh airport to Perth racecourse, Dunne claims he received a phone call in which the caller alluded to his problems with Frost, saying. “You listen here. I’ll come and break your legs. Your legs are gonna be broken.” Dunne reported the call to Dale Gibson at the Professional Jockeys Association. Gibson, he says, told him not to worry, to let it blow over.

In his fall, Cillian’s Well broke a shoulder and had to be euthanised. After speaking to Dunne, the horse’s trainer, John Flint, believed that Frost’s carelessness had caused the fall and outside the steward’s room at Southwell he complained loudly and asked the authorities to look into it.

Gregory Pearson, a stipendiary steward at Southwell that day, recalled the official reaction to Flint’s complaint. “I assured Mr Flint that whilst he remained at the door, we would immediately return to that particular section of the race and review again from all available angles in the presence of the stewards’ panel chair and my fellow stipendiary steward. Upon having completed another thorough review of when Cillian’s Well had fallen, the stewards were unanimous in finding that there was zero evidence to suggest that Miss Frost had ridden in a dangerous manner, let alone committed any offence and ultimately was not considered responsible for causing Cillian’s Well to fall.”

After leaving Southwell that evening, Frost called her father, Jimmy, the former Grand National-winning jockey. “She was distraught,” he says. “My first priority was to calm her down and get her back to thinking straight. I thought again that she was so upset that she shouldn’t be driving. She recounted to me exactly what he [Dunne] had said, that the next time she rode against him he will put her through the wing of a fence.”

Jimmy Frost alleges that “when she challenged him, he replied saying she murders everyone and that the next time they rode against each other he was going to hurt her. I told Bryony that this situation has to be stopped and that she must report it.”

The BHA’s investigators, Watts and Nathan Taylor, interviewed many jockeys including Tom Scudamore, Nico de Boinville, Gavin Sheehan, Sean Quinlan, Richie McLernon and Paul O’Brien, as well as the valets Graham Piper, Mark Sinfield and Lewis Piper. From inside the weighing room, the consensus view was that the ill-feeling and hostility between Frost and Dunne was not out of the ordinary.

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The valets characterised the row that took place at Southwell as “bickering” while some of the jockeys felt that the altercation after Cillian Well’s fatal fall was not unusual. De Boinville said that what took place should be seen in the context of what happened in the race. Dunne was asked how things had been with Frost since she’d made her complaint.

“Not great,” he replied.

“What makes you say that?”

“‘Cos it’s not the done thing.”

In the section dealing with this particular incident, the authors of the report conclude that “there is a cultural issue in which threatening behaviour is condoned and not reported in the weighing room. It is submitted that it is likely that this is why it has been difficult for the BHA to gather detailed witness evidence from occupants of the weighing room.”

On April 12, the BHA wrote by email to Dunne. The headline said: “This letter contains formal charges against you under the rules of racing — please do not ignore.” It makes clear that an oral hearing before a disciplinary tribunal will consider the case and determine whether he is in breach of the rules of racing. The BHA refused to comment on whether a hearing had taken place.

During the investigations, the BHA spoke to Clifford Baker, head lad with the champion trainer Paul Nicholls. He said he had spoken to Frost. “I told her that if there is something going on, then it needs to be sorted out.”

Contacted by The Sunday Times, Dunne refused to discuss the case. “You can guess the answer,” he said before ending the call. Frost did not pick up a phone call, nor reply to a text message. Through its spokesman, the BHA said that it could not comment on an ongoing case.

Dunne’s bitter tweet and frightened Frost

“If Yala Enki wins this cartoon race wonder will the interview be as far fetched as they do be in real life [sic]”. Robbie Dunne tweeted this on April 4, 2020, the date of the “virtual” Grand National in which Frost was due to “ride” Yala Enki. The BHA report concludes that the post, “while mean-spirited, would not necessarily be cause for disciplinary action [but] it becomes far more problematic when considered in the context of the entirety of the allegations against Dunne”.

Dunne’s all-round behaviour, Frost maintains, has forced her to alienate herself in her workplace. She says she goes out of her way to avoid Dunne, does not emerge from her room until she has to ride and is concerned for her safety. “I am unhappy,” she concludes.
By:
Deptford
When: 17 Oct 21 09:24
If it is all true very poor from other jockeys, you would think one of them would step in and have a word with him, I would if it was my workplace.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 17 Oct 21 09:41
Thank you for that mrcombustible.
By:
MJK
When: 17 Oct 21 09:51

Oct 17, 2021 -- 3:24AM, Deptford wrote:


If it is all true very poor from other jockeys, you would think one of them would step in and have a word with him, I would if it was my workplace.


Perhaps they agreed with him but were afraid to say anything?

By:
Deptford
When: 17 Oct 21 09:54
Fair point, Sir Tony was good at aiming his horse across.
By:
mrcombustible
When: 17 Oct 21 09:56
Can this go anywhere? Where is the proof?

Dunne can say Frost is exaggerating and he didn't use threatening language? I doubt she has a recording of what was said.

One persons word against another.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 17 Oct 21 10:00
Looking at the video, Cillian’s Well's fall was nothing to do with Frosty.
She did move in front of him at the fence but was clear, and had done the same at the fence before and CW jumped that fine.

If Dunne says she put his horse off, then why after seeing her jump to the left at the fence before was he up her inside?

He seems to be trying to make something out of nothing there.
By:
Daryl Revok
When: 17 Oct 21 10:44
It seems an incredible coincidence that, during a week where the behaviour of racing's top owner and top jockey is shown to be extremely disturbing (without any comment from the BHA), a 120 page report is being leaked to the press about a lesser figure in the racing world, 10 months after he was interviewed and 6 months after he was charged.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 17 Oct 21 10:44
Jockeys are little devils but Bryony Frost brought a lovely sunny nature to the track four or five years ago. She liked winning but really looked like she enjoyed a day's work minute by minute. And wasn't changed after she returned from breaking a bone or two at Newton Abbot. So there's that to regret if it's gone.
By:
sparrow
When: 17 Oct 21 10:56
When you read this sort of thing you start to understand why so many jockeys have problems with alcohol and drugs.
By:
parispike
When: 17 Oct 21 11:06
Personally thought the Cillian's Well incident was, if either jockey's fault, down to Dunne. Frost's was continually jumping left and Dunne had every chance to go to her inside. He didn't.

Possibly blaming Frost was his deflection technique and now he's stuck with it....?
By:
pandora1963
When: 17 Oct 21 11:35
i like Dunne's quite style on horses, very good jock IMO but reading this comes across as a nasty piece of work
By:
pandora1963
When: 17 Oct 21 11:36
quiet'
By:
Jumping-cuckoo-monk
When: 17 Oct 21 11:41
Accusations doesn't mean truth.
By:
Jumping-cuckoo-monk
When: 17 Oct 21 11:42
always*
Best to see how this develops imo
By:
Daryl Revok
When: 17 Oct 21 12:31
mrcombustible  Oct 21 08:56 

Can this go anywhere?

The response that the authorities desire, by leaking the report to the press, is that Dunne retires (it's the same methodology used to bin Jon Gruden this week). As he's 42, and probably wants a job in racing after he stops riding, it will probably work.
By:
carrot1960
When: 17 Oct 21 12:49
A quick look at a random selection of her front running rides reveals  she sure does have a habit of getting her mounts to jump wayward when challenged late on in the race
By:
paulo47
When: 17 Oct 21 13:02
TBF she is apt to have her mounts prominent in a race , you cant jump across people if you are behind them , but you can observe which way they are jumping and act accordingly .
By:
Lee Ho Fooks
When: 17 Oct 21 13:08
mrcombustible  Oct 21 08:56

Can this go anywhere?

It already has. It's allowed the BHA to deflect everyone's attention away from the things they don't want to comment on
By:
spyker
When: 17 Oct 21 13:33
I don't know who is right or wrong but Frost's 'recollections' have clearly been put together after the fact and prob by a team of people. Obv there are other witnesses so what either Frost or Dunne says should be taken with a pinch of salt and basically disregarded in the legal process. 'He said she said' doesn't work legally!
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 17 Oct 21 13:41
Personally, if someone called me a f***king c**t I think I’d remember it word for word; wouldn’t you Spyker?
By:
1st time poster
When: 17 Oct 21 13:42
all hear say /gossip and everyone including media interested in what frost has to say but why isnt anyone interested in who threatened to break dunnes legs,
if we take everything at face value of course
By:
LoyalHoncho
When: 17 Oct 21 15:06
Daryl Revok     17 Oct 21 09:44
Couldn't agree more mate.  Standard dressing up, massaging and manipulating of an alleged event - now become very public - in order to transmit and communicate  a "message" about a currently very political ( and woman made ) issue.  Dunne will be hung out to dry and miss goodytwoshoes will be celebrated by all her fawning press and media admirers.
Typical establishment reaction, in order to look good and worse, look like they are in control with their finger on the pulse.
By:
mrcombustible
When: 17 Oct 21 15:33
y Chris Cook & Peter Scargill
UPDATED 2:48PM, OCT 17 2021
 
The BHA has defended its handling of the investigation into allegations of bullying made by Bryony Frost against fellow rider Robbie Dunne as the regulator came under an intense attack from Dunne’s legal team for details of the case being leaked to the media.

The BHA said on Sunday that the case, for which the leaked report was reportedly completed in April, was “close to reaching a conclusion” and added that the matter was one it was “taking very seriously”.

However, Dunne’s representatives claimed on Sunday that the BHA had referred itself to the Information Commissioner after concluding that the leak to The Sunday Times may have come from within the organisation’s own integrity department.

It was revealed in articles published over the weekend that Dunne had been charged with “conduct prejudicial to the integrity or good reputation” of racing after a comprehensive 120-page report carried out by the BHA’s integrity department, in which details of Frost’s allegations are laid out alongside witness statements from other riders and Dunne, was leaked.

Bryony Frost: won the King George VI Chase on Frodon last December
Bryony Frost: won the King George VI Chase on Frodon last December
Alongside detailing allegations made by Frost of threatening and inappropriate behaviour by Dunne, the BHA investigators outline in the report how "there is a cultural issue in which threatening behaviour is condoned and not reported in the weighing room".

A BHA spokesman said on Saturday that it did not comment on ongoing cases, and in a further statement on Sunday it said: "This case is close to reaching its conclusion, with directions hearings scheduled for the near future. It is an important case and one that the BHA is taking very seriously.

“Cases such as this may be complex and involve significant legal representation. In order to ensure fairness for all parties such procedures – including the directions hearings – must be allowed to play out in full, and in private rather than through the media.

“However, as is usual process, and in the interests of openness and transparency, the BHA would make public the details of any cases which are heard in front of its independent disciplinary panel, prior to any hearing taking place.”

Nevertheless, the BHA was accused of having “completely lost control” of the case by Daryl Cowan, solicitor for Dunne, who labelled the integrity department as “unfit for purpose”.

Cowan also highlighted what he called the mysterious departure from the BHA of its head of integrity Chris Watts, who was confirmed last month to have left the regulator after four years.

Cowan said on Sunday: “The BHA has completely lost control of this case. Under the BHA’s much vaunted judicial panels’ code, the case papers relevant to an investigation are, or are supposed to be, strictly confidential.

“The BHA has admitted to us that the original leak may have come from within its own integrity department, and that it has notified the Information Commissioner. The data breach has come on the back of an investigation that has been irredeemably compromised by conflicts of interest and partisanships.

“Pretty much every rule of professional and neutral evidence gathering has been broken, including the misrepresentation and selective editing of witness testimony.

“To cap it all, we are told that Chris Watts, the investigator, will not now be available to be cross-examined on his investigation and it seems may have left the BHA in mysterious circumstances. Its so-called integrity department has shown itself to be unfit for purpose.”

The Professional Jockeys Association (PJA) said it was a "deeply concerning development" that a report being leaked to the media "may have been the result of a serious data breach within the BHA".

While not commenting on the Frost case, the PJA added in a statement that it had brought in its own code of conduct for members this year and that "the safety and wellbeing of its members has always been, and remains, the PJA’s number one priority."

The BHA also said it was developing a code of conduct for racing generally, which would detail the standard of behaviour expected from those in the sport.

"Racing is not immune to issues around conduct and behaviours which are prevalent in all aspects of society and other sports," the BHA said.

"The BHA has already announced it is working alongside our industry’s participants to develop a code of conduct for anyone involved in the sport, which will be enshrined in the rules and ensures that appropriate behaviours are endorsed and bad behaviours are discouraged."

Dunne did not want to comment when contacted on Saturday night, while Frost could not be reached for comment.
By:
mrcombustible
When: 17 Oct 21 15:33
This is a total shambles by the BHA.
Case will collapse
By:
the dealer
When: 17 Oct 21 15:36
No surprise there then
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 17 Oct 21 15:46
Shouldn't have been leaked but if the case collapses, there is no closure.

There is a saying, "What happens in the Southwell dressing room stays in the Southwell dressing room" but who are you going to believe? If someone calls you a "f***ing c**t" you're going to remember it verbatim. This is a bloke in his forties losing it with a girl in her twenties. Whoever good Dunne's lawyer, however bad the BHA, there's something to resolve here.
By:
Davros
When: 17 Oct 21 16:43
Dunne has a very strange interpretation of the Southwell race.
By:
Alices
When: 17 Oct 21 16:56
Robbie Dunne might not be planning to retire soon as hes only 35/36 not as previously stated.
Robbie Dunne the footballer is 42.
By:
LoyalHoncho
When: 17 Oct 21 17:39
"which will be enshrined in the rules and ensures that appropriate behaviours are endorsed and bad behaviours are discouraged."
Excellent.  Let's see Bryony Frost "discouraged" from repeatedly and in varied races, but notably in steeplechases, from allowing her horses to veer right or let as they approach fences.
Also, let's see one of two words inserted into the following statement - either allegedly or supposedly - because absolutely nothing has been proved in this case.
"This is a bloke in his forties losing it with a girl in her twenties. Whoever good Dunne's lawyer, however bad the BHA, there's something to resolve here".
And the age of the girl is nothing whatsoever to do with this case.
If she's old enough to ride 'chasers she's old enough to be criticised about her riding. In my view.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 17 Oct 21 18:08
Uh huh.
So what would you do, LoyalHoncho, if I called you a "f****ng c**t" and threatened to injure you?
Knowing that you were physically my inferior?
By:
jinxy
When: 17 Oct 21 18:27
Good point Unitedbiscuits  , if she was my sister i would knock his head off !  IF he was Speaking like that  , if he spoke like that to me too !
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