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leif
12 Aug 21 19:25
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Date Joined: 26 Jun 08
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A couple have warned of the potential risks of being defrauded online after close to £8,000 was stolen from a number of their betting accounts this month in the space of just a few hours.

As well as suffering the trauma of having money stolen, the couple, who are longstanding owner-breeders and wish to remain anonymous, also expressed frustration at spending multiple hours with bookmakers’ LiveChat operators trying to recover their funds with limited success.

Six bookmakers – bet365, Betfair, BetVictor, Skybet, Paddy Power and William Hill – were targeted by fraudsters after obtaining the couple’s account information with sums of up to £2,500 removed at a time from the online operators last Monday.

The couple, who had built up the totals in their online accounts primarily as the result of good performances from their horses and have reported the crime to Action Fraud, stated that only their William Hill account had not been compromised, while Skybet returned the funds “within 24 hours with no quibbles”.

The couple said no two betting accounts carried the same username or password, and indicated their alarm at the ability of the fraudsters who compromised their accounts to be able to add new bank card details and answer security questions when changing details on the sites.

Explaining what happened, one of them said: “We had a number of emails from betting companies telling us our passwords had been changed. [The fraudsters] changed the email to one that was very similar to ours – a hotmail address instead of aol – and updated the bank card details before withdrawing the money. From two of the accounts they withdrew £100 to our own bank account then sent the rest somewhere else and cleaned us out. 

“Someone had managed to answer our security questions too. Things like ‘mother's maiden name’ or date of birth I suppose can be found, but one of our questions was my wife’s father’s nickname – how did they manage to answer that?”

He added: “We won’t be the only people this has happened to and we wanted to warn people that this can happen.”

A spokeswoman for Flutter Entertainment – the parent company of Paddy Power, Betfair and Skybet – declined to comment on the case but insisted the brands had robust anti-fraud measures in place.

A source familiar with the operators outlined a belief that the couple had been victims of ‘credential stuffing’, a type of cyberattack which steals usernames, passwords and email addresses that can then be used to imitate individuals online, rather than the individual betting accounts being hacked.

The couple confirmed that funds from the majority of bookmakers had now been returned, but felt their initial experience with online customer service agents through LiveChat functions, the initial point of contact for the majority of bookmakers, compounded their frustration and distress at being victims of crime.

“You never speak with the same people on LiveChat so you don’t know what’s being done or being changed,” said one of the couple. “My wife has spent 17-18 hours on LiveChat in the last week and they didn't seem to understand what had happened.

“If we’d have known who we were talking to, if someone could have rung us to begin with and gone through it, it would've helped so much.”
https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/online-punters-warned-after-fraudsters-steal-8000-from-couples-accounts/505354


Been on livechat to the Philippines Cry

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Replies: 118
By:
leif
When: 12 Aug 21 19:27
Inside job perhapsMischief
By:
longbridge
When: 12 Aug 21 19:29
Philipines?

Why would you have serious money in a Betfair account and not enable Two Factor Auth?  I only have a few hundred quid here and I turned it on years ago.
By:
leif
When: 12 Aug 21 19:35
I think some people believe that when they contact bookmakers via livechat etc that they're speaking to someone in the Uk. Customer service when you need it is non-existent and to explain yourself to someone overseas is extremely painful.

Seems odd they have been rinsed yet they say they used different username/passwords/security questions etc.

But you're right, having that much money in accounts and not not having additional security authorisation is slipshod.
By:
screaming from beneaththewaves
When: 12 Aug 21 19:39
I'm not saying for one second this is definitely what happened, because I frankly don't understand what happened. but is it possible that the fraudsters somehow bypassed two-factor ID by claiming their log-in details were lost. Hence them answering questions about mother's maiden name, etc., in order to access the accounts without 2-factor ID.

Happy to be proven wrong.
By:
sageform
When: 12 Aug 21 19:43
Always take out some money once I get to £100. Mind you I have an awful lot more than that in bank savings accounts and they are just as vulnerable.
By:
impossible123
When: 12 Aug 21 19:55
'LiveChat' are manned by unknowledgeable individuals on minimum wage. Individuals also try to deflect issue and pass on to someone else to deal with it. I've never left more than £5 overnight now (zero previously) to avoid the stupid reminder I'd need to transfer fund.

Never leave money overnight with bookies.
By:
Movewiththetimes
When: 12 Aug 21 20:12
Sage- Bank accounts are safe up to £85,000 I believe.
By:
longbridge
When: 12 Aug 21 20:39
@impossible

"Never leave money overnight with bookies"

I really cba withdrawing every day - not for my few hundred pounds - why would I not trust 2FA?
By:
The Management
When: 12 Aug 21 20:51
“My wife has spent 17-18 hours on LiveChat in the last week and they didn't seem to understand what had happened".

I know it's not funny - buy you've got to laugh LaughLaugh - I've had £8,000.00 stolen from my account, can you put me through to somebody thousands of miles away, that started working there yesterday, hasn't had any training and doesn't speak English please?
By:
dave1357
When: 12 Aug 21 21:08
1) hack the email
2) look at all those lovely bookies offers
3) go for password reset with new pass sent to email
4) change the email
5) profit
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 21:15
how do you add a new card that isnt in the acc holders name?
By:
dave1357
When: 12 Aug 21 21:21
rofl, you think they check that?  That has been an ongoing complaint after hacks.  Usually they link a payment account like paypal tho.
By:
madhatters
When: 12 Aug 21 21:23
All very fishy
Esp the question process
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 21:27
I don't know all the in's and outs but if for eample I won say, 3k today, I would withdraw ASAP and at least know my money was in 'transaction'.
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 21:31
problem with bf is if you deposit regularly you'll fall into the responsible gambling restrictions.
By:
elisjohn
When: 12 Aug 21 21:33
slightly off topic, the other day i booked couple of days in a hotel in few weeks time, i had to input all my detail sonline  and though they werent taking a deposit i had to give my card number plus the 3 sec numbers at the back, surely this cant be safe, anyone in that hotel could order stuff with my details or whatever, even take every penny out of my acct couldnt they?
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 21:35
Rico-Dangleflaps
Date Joined: 07 Sep 18
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12 Aug 21 20:31Joined: 07 Sep 18 | Topic/replies: 4,523 | Blogger: Rico-Dangleflaps's blog
problem with bf is if you deposit regularly you'll fall into the responsible gambling restrictions.



You've lost me a little bit there Stephen. If i'm punting regularly I can be depositing and withdrawing every few days?
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 21:35
that applies to any card transaction though.
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 21:37
plenty being restricted for depositing funds..where you been this yr stewy.
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 21:40
In all honesty Stephen BF have never questioned me about my deposits....or withdrawals for that matter. Mind you I was punting heavyish when I joined. (and losing plenty)
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 21:42
nowt to do with in the past..its present day it happening.
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 21:48
I understand what you are saying Stephen but until they call me to question I'll carry on. In saying that have they ever questioned yourself?
By:
sparrow
When: 12 Aug 21 21:50
Today I had a deposit to betfair from my card debit card blocked by the bank although it turned out to be another company involved. The bank never checked anything with me or even informed me that they had blocked it due to a possible fraudulent transaction. After talking with someone at the bank I was told that it was a third party company responsible for security that had blocked my card and they did not neccesarily inform the customer. By this time I was absolutely fuming and told them that my account was with the bank and nobody else and demanded an apology for not being informed and also refusing to tell me whether anyone else was trying to defraud me. At this moment in time they are offering me £25 which was refused and an official complaint was lodged and another person from the bank will contact me. What times we live in!
By:
swiftynifty
When: 12 Aug 21 21:53
elisjohn, I thought online purchases etc sent the details encrypted , it's the over the phone ones where you give card no. plus 3 digit security no. I worry about.
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 21:54
Unbelievable sparrow. Like yourself I would have told them to stick the £25 where the sun don't shine.
By:
leif
When: 12 Aug 21 22:04
So you request BF to take a payment from your card, BF as the merchant requests your Bank (card issuer) to verify all the security details associated with the card, the transaction is declined and your bank says it's nothing to do with them.

Summat not right there .
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 22:14
ive had no problems but until about 6 weeks ago i rarely deposited...i know plenty who've been restricted to depositing small amounts though or acc closed if cant prove an income.
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 22:18
I'm guessing here but if you only use BF surely no problems depositing?
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 22:20
Or let me put it another way. If BF restricted me to £100 per week my punting days would be over.
By:
sparrow
When: 12 Aug 21 22:26
leif 12 Aug 21 21:04 
So you request BF to take a payment from your card, BF as the merchant requests your Bank (card issuer) to verify all the security details associated with the card, the transaction is declined and your bank says it's nothing to do with them.

Summat not right there .






The bank is saying that the blocking of the card was done by a third party company employed by them for security issues.
By:
sparrow
When: 12 Aug 21 22:27
stewarty b Joined: 02 Aug 02
Replies: 3053912 Aug 21 21:18 
I'm guessing here but if you only use BF surely no problems depositing?




Problem was not with betfair, see above.
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 22:30
I know where you are coming from sparrow but I was just speaking about BF in general.
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 22:36
its bf that are restricting or closing acc's.
By:
leif
When: 12 Aug 21 22:38
I get that Sparrow buy the bank should just be saying your transaction was turned down for not passing all the security measures.  In other words "please try again".

Offering you a pony hush money is disconcerting.
By:
stewarty b
When: 12 Aug 21 22:49
Rico-Dangleflaps
Date Joined: 07 Sep 18
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12 Aug 21 21:36Joined: 07 Sep 18 | Topic/replies: 4,533 | Blogger: Rico-Dangleflaps's blog
its bf that are restricting or closing acc's.




For what reason Stephen?
By:
sparrow
When: 12 Aug 21 22:52
leif 12 Aug 21 21:38 
I get that Sparrow buy the bank should just be saying your transaction was turned down for not passing all the security measures.  In other words "please try again".

Offering you a pony hush money is disconcerting.





That was my argument leif in that the bank nor this third party told me that my card was blocked and my view was that they had no right to do this without consulting me first. It was my money and I was the last to know and still have no idea what the security breach was and they didn't have to tell me they said. They offered me the money when I said I wanted to register a complaint about this behaviour.
By:
leif
When: 12 Aug 21 23:02
I believe they are well within their rights not to divulge what the issue was given you could be a swindler and that would inform you as to how to get around it possibly.

I'd just take the pony and count it as a small win to be honest.

Still odd they would offer it considering they are there to protect your interest but heyho!
By:
smirnoff2therescue
When: 12 Aug 21 23:07
isnt a bank account meant to be registered to a certain address - now ive neva been clever enuf to complete the rubix cube but wot am i missing ere ConfusedConfusedConfused
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Aug 21 23:11
stewarty b 12 Aug 21 21:49 
For what reason Stephen?

gambling commission recommendations..affordability checks.
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