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differentdrum
18 Jul 21 19:39
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Date Joined: 05 Oct 11
| Topic/replies: 13,257 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
Is the fear to do with anything outside the bubble and the likelihood it won't be a stitch up like the BHA whip survey? Funny how nobody is exactly up in arms about that, almost as if they know the result.

We are told over and over how great horse welfare is so what can be worry? But of course we were told that before the Elliott story finally came to light. How much more is out there?

And the response? Harvey going into overkill over the last few days showing buckets of water at the ready on hot days. All is well then.
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Report LoyalHoncho July 18, 2021 11:07 PM BST
The Elliott story wasn't about welfare it was about the disrespecting ( by someone who should know much, much better ) of a dead animal who had given his all , however good or bad that was, for the sport, and had suffered a tragic death.  You/me/anyone can't do anything about the welfare of a dead horse!
And I don't think this is fear either I think it is a case of - "This is the BBC and they hate horseracing.  How bad are they going to try to make us look this time"?  That's not so much fear as disgust!
Report Captain carnage July 19, 2021 12:17 AM BST
No, its thankfully game, set, match over for the filth that is Elliot.
Lots of his former horses being sent hundreds of miles to meet a less than humane death.
Is anyone really surprised?
Report cloone river July 19, 2021 12:24 AM BST
What exactly did Elliot do wrong  Captain carnage?
Report KeMoH July 19, 2021 12:34 AM BST
the real problem is that racing is run by those who would happily bend over backwards to accommodate those outsiders who, lets be honest, just want the sport banned altogether. the left-wing media cesspits such as the bbc, the guardian, the mirror will all toe the same line about this tuesday morning after this shower has been aired - and we shouldn't be surprised. nobody is denying that horse welfare isn't or shouldn't be a priority issue for all involved, but lets not pretend that every retired racehorse or uncommercial 2yo that doesn't cut the mustard sees out the rest of their lives in the green fields of elyisum. there simply isn't the infrastructure to support this. i have no doubt that racing could make improvements in certain areas relating to welfare but this panorama bullsh!t is just there to tarnish, discredit and defame the racing industry as a whole. the problem with this bbc investigation is that it will be unfair and biased, designed to pander to the woke generation... designed to ignite and flare tensions with those who are already totally against the sport which we love. whether its the banning of the whip or issues relating to welfare, the wretched bbc have a warped agenda and have long wanted to start a crusade to get the sport banned full stop.
Report SlippyBlue July 19, 2021 4:09 PM BST
Very well said KeHom, spot on.
Report xmoneyx July 19, 2021 4:11 PM BST
every OWNER is responsible for welfare during racing & retirement
Report ashleigh July 19, 2021 4:16 PM BST
not another thread.Crazy
Report Gull1 July 19, 2021 4:46 PM BST
Make no mistake, if the BBC, still covered racing, this programme would not see the light of day. They also have it in for ITV racing.
Report BlazingWalker July 19, 2021 6:11 PM BST
Well done BBC for highlighting this awful situation anyone who knocks them is as callous as those around Gordon Elliot.
Report fife July 19, 2021 6:15 PM BST
Unfortunately a lot of posters on here would only take notice if GB news highlighted the scandalAngry
Report jamesdean July 19, 2021 6:16 PM BST
What we need to get good publicity off the bbc for racing, is for Alex Scott to ride the winner of the Grand National
Report BlazingWalker July 19, 2021 6:18 PM BST
If the racing industry cannot take care of all racehorses that need support then racing needs shutting down forever.
Report duffy July 19, 2021 6:18 PM BST
I'm interested how the likes of the Elliott apologists handle this subject, a much more difficult one.

For instance Blake is having a much tougher time dealing with the subject of horse care post racing, he believes destroying animals that are not suitable for any other activity is suitable, this isn't going to go down too well with the anti racing mob.

I'd also like to know just how many horses are destroyed in the name of not being suitable for other activities whereas the real reason is that no-one wants them!!
Report fife July 19, 2021 6:19 PM BST
If it turns out to be a scandal it doesn't matter who highlights it.
Report sparrow July 19, 2021 6:21 PM BST
fife 19 Jul 21 17:15 
Unfortunately a lot of posters on here would only take notice if GB news highlighted the scandal.





According to what I read nobody watches this GB news thing. Laugh
Report fife July 19, 2021 6:40 PM BST
Watching it and admitting to watching it are two different thingsMischief
Report Larabrown July 19, 2021 6:44 PM BST
Whatever the programme reveals, one thing we can be sure of is that this forum`s response will be predominantly formed by elderly, reactionary males who are totally out of touch with modern day society.
Report KeMoH July 19, 2021 6:47 PM BST

Jul 19, 2021 -- 12:18PM, BlazingWalker wrote:


If the racing industry cannot take care of all racehorses that need support then racing needs shutting down forever.


foydc

Report KeMoH July 19, 2021 6:52 PM BST
more brain washed, left-wing apologists who would be better suited at a piers corbyn anti-vaxxers rally
Report KeMoH July 19, 2021 6:56 PM BST
blazingwalker clearly doesnt live in the real world. he lives in a rarefied world. wake up and smell the coffee
Report fife July 19, 2021 6:58 PM BST
KeMoh you **** the vast majority of anti- vaxxers appear to have right wing leanings to put it mildly.
Report KeMoH July 19, 2021 7:03 PM BST
guardian reader? its not a scandal, these things happen in the real world. and its a bit rich for people to slate the racing world when it comes to the welfare of its horses with all the atrocities that have and are happening all around the world because of the human race. theres nothing to see here, honestly
Report BlazingWalker July 19, 2021 7:10 PM BST
KeMoh is/would be one of those owners that simply couldn’t/wouldn’t give a t055.The type scum involved with this situation.
Report LoyalHoncho July 19, 2021 7:43 PM BST
Spot on here too KeMoH but with the one addition - "skilfully edited and cut to make racing look as bad as possible".
Report LoyalHoncho July 19, 2021 7:49 PM BST
There is nothing wrong at all with being right wing, and there is nothing wrong with being elderly.
So who is actually the prejudiced one on here Lara?  I take it your grandparents and parents, should you be lucky enough to still have some/them, qualify as elderly.  Did you learn anything at all from them?  If so you're just as prejudiced as anyone.
Try and wash your brain Lara and not your bitterness.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves July 19, 2021 7:59 PM BST
"I'd also like to know just how many horses are destroyed in the name of not being suitable for other activities whereas the real reason is that no-one wants them!!"

If no one wants them, then by definition they're not suitable for other activities.
Report andy cap July 19, 2021 8:01 PM BST
The BBC are in total control of everything. They can control everything good and bad. They put out programmes and news to meet there needs.
Report bluebook July 19, 2021 8:18 PM BST
I assume the horses we see on track have been specifically bred to race, not end up in a glue factory when they turn out to have zero ability, which is hardly their fault. And those who do have ability surely deserve more in retirement than simply being slaughtered. But if that IS what is routinely happening, and that's simply the awful reality of the sport in the 21st century, why not simply fess up ?

The answer, I think, is that even those who could in no way be described as 'snowflakes' - i.e. simply humane - would be sickened enough to have second thoughts about continuing to show an interest in racing, forgoing betting on it and no longer attending race meetings.

And that, I think, would be a perfectly reasonable response.
Report fife July 19, 2021 8:42 PM BST
andy crap sounds like a conspiracy nutjob
Report Old Brigade July 19, 2021 8:54 PM BST
Surprise, surprise. Bbc confecting an anti horse racing story. Why is anyone surprised with that?
Report Larabrown July 19, 2021 8:56 PM BST
andy crap - a conspiracy nutjob who cannot spell
Report BULLET TOOTH TONY July 19, 2021 8:59 PM BST
This is quite a daming programme
Report bluebook July 19, 2021 8:59 PM BST
I rather suspect that the problem is this : these days, racing is not only a sport but an 'industry'; and as an industry no doubt has a lot of people involved who can only make a living from it by taking the least line of resistance with retired horses and those with little ability - i.e. cull them.

If they were forced, or inclined, to do otherwise, their business would become economically unviable, and so they act accordingly. The chief concern is for the health of their bank balance, not with the health of the horses in their charge.
Report BULLET TOOTH TONY July 19, 2021 8:59 PM BST
Will Gordan Elliot ever be able to return to training
Report bluebook July 19, 2021 9:02 PM BST
Well, if he figures prominently in this programme, maybe not.

And that surely wouldn't be a bad thing, given his past actions.
Report know all July 19, 2021 9:03 PM BST
that was sickening, i feel very uncomfortable all about money bookies make millions bha millions top trainers millions top jockeys millions and they dont give a fk
Report bluebook July 19, 2021 9:04 PM BST
Just for the moment, forget the fact it's Auntie who've brought this programme to air. Simply try to consider whatever facts come to light and judge the case accordingly.
Report BULLET TOOTH TONY July 19, 2021 9:04 PM BST
We've just basically seen 3 horses of his sent to the slaughter house, transporting horses that are in discomfort miles to be put down, including an horse who had won 170K in races at Cheltenham and Ascot.. Vyta Du Roc
Report slickster July 19, 2021 9:05 PM BST
Practically everybody in this sport are in it for the money. And plenty of it. Unscrupulous individuals don't care about the horse. It's just how much they can make out of them. And bookies. To name one  Coates, paying herself 1 million a day on the back of these poor horses is disgusting. I'm betting all my life. Maybe it is time to totally ban the sport.
Report sageform July 19, 2021 9:07 PM BST
I have not watched Panorama but I don't suppose that they mentioned what happens to all of the horses in Ireland or UK (or any other country) which are not thoroughbreds. Polo ponies, riding ponies, eventers, show jumpers, police horses. Why do they always target racing?
Report cool_hand_luke July 19, 2021 9:09 PM BST
Betfair embroiled in this through their previous sponsorship for the Elliot yard,  even if it did end in March when the photo was released.  Elliot advertising their site is not what they would want at present.
Report BULLET TOOTH TONY July 19, 2021 9:10 PM BST
There is nothing wrong with racing horses, but if we want so much racing, then the owners whom have an variety of races to go for, should be prepare to at least act in the right way in the way of horse welfare is what I got from the program, which the suggestion it isnt.

Panorama had to show a picture of Elliot wearing his betfair jacket!! Sure that went down well
Report xaar July 19, 2021 9:14 PM BST
that was a load of nothing just the bbc trying to tar racing with the bad brush, move along now
Report know all July 19, 2021 9:16 PM BST
sageform i suggest you watch it its a disgrace you will be shocked i think we all are, that was bad really bad and its all to do with money the sport is swimming in money ffs they need to do something or it will finish they will make sure of that its barbaric how those horses are treated
Report bluebook July 19, 2021 9:17 PM BST
I cannot even begin to think why as an owner you wouldn't be anxious to ensure that any horse you had was properly cared for once its racing career was over - other than the fact you're a callous sh*t, of course.
Report xaar July 19, 2021 9:20 PM BST
sage it wasn't that bad it goes on everywhere
Report know all July 19, 2021 9:21 PM BST
anyone who thinks that was nothing probably works there, still some have no heart or empathy fine let the sport go to the wall the repercussions are massive if they dont stop it it will be finished get rid of the bad apples we need the welfare of ex race horses to be priority charge us a tax whatever it takes
Report know all July 19, 2021 9:23 PM BST
xaar your a wind up merchant
Report xaar July 19, 2021 9:26 PM BST
im not knowall, everyone knows what goes on yes its bad but the program wasnt that bad more about that place who kills them which i didnt agree was correct.
Report LoyalHoncho July 19, 2021 9:33 PM BST
Forty years ago pigs were killed more efficiently, humanely and systematically than these racehorses, imo.  Forty years ago!  I would have thought as racehorses, and being used to entering stalls, they could have been so installed, to try and ensure that they at least stay reasonably still as they are shot.  Indeed, how hard could it be to make a contraption at horse head height, in front of said stall, to house the weapon and to make the shoot more efficient.
A guy in a white coat waving a rifle around?
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 19, 2021 10:12 PM BST
were they killed with a firearm?
Report brians July 19, 2021 10:16 PM BST
Remind me howhalal animals are killed.
Report LoyalHoncho July 19, 2021 10:22 PM BST
We didn't actually see an animal being despatched although we ( reputedly ) heard one being shot. Certainly a firearm was used at one point in the transmission although out of camera. An abattoir employee was filmed/shown on several instances with a rifle in his possession and was portrayed as intent on using it to despatch a horse in the cell/unit/room being filmed, which was called the kill room.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 19, 2021 10:32 PM BST
im suprised a firearm is allowed to kill animals this way.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves July 19, 2021 10:45 PM BST
slickster: "Practically everybody in this sport are in it for the money."

I can't think of a more ignorant statement. If it's money you want, the very last place you'd go to try to make it is owning a racehorse.
Report slickster July 19, 2021 11:46 PM BST
Who said anything about owning a racehorse to make Money? You appear naive screaming. Horses are sadly abused every day by unscrupulous individuals simply to make grubby money. Overfed overwatered running on the wrong ground wrong track making some fall on purpose aka the stuntman all to get a great handicap mark. Look at the green and gold. Too many people treat these wonderful horses as commodities TO MAKE MONEY.
Report steerforth July 19, 2021 11:58 PM BST
I havent seen it - not sure I want to, but, two questions:

Is the mistreatment typical of ALL facilities to dispatch?
Is culling racehorses a new thing?

The answers will inform the extent of the problem.
Report jimnast July 20, 2021 6:56 AM BST
he gave the horse to another rider
Report jimnast July 20, 2021 7:46 AM BST
more utter rubbish from the bbc again this morning with an exclusive interview with cummings what an outfit.
Report Facts July 20, 2021 8:29 AM BST
sageform 19 Jul 21 20:07 
I have not watched Panorama but I don't suppose that they mentioned what happens to all of the horses in Ireland or UK (or any other country) which are not thoroughbreds. Polo ponies, riding ponies, eventers, show jumpers, police horses. Why do they always target racing?


Very good point.
Report GAZO July 20, 2021 8:47 AM BST
racing especially national hunt racing would have been long gone if not for how they have showed the welfare of the hore is paramount,anything that brings that into question has to be looked into and cannot be brushed under the carpet
Report Storm Alert July 20, 2021 9:23 AM BST
slickster - Practically everybody in this sport are in it for the money. And plenty of it. Unscrupulous individuals don't care about the horse. It's just how much they can make out of them

Absolutely, very naive to believe otherwise. Horses are just a commodity for owners, trainers, jockeys. It is huge industry employing tens of thousands. Of course the horses are loved and cared for whilst they are in training. I thought Ruby Walsh said it well some years ago "horses live outside the backdoor".

Although the attrition rate for horses in training is high, it's what happens when their racing career is over. With circa 7000 leaving training every year it's obvious many are slaughtered and will end up in the food chain in France, Belgium, Holland etc. Retraining racehorses is difficult, they can have debilitating injuries, be highly strung, too small to be a hack for a largish person etc etc.

I thought the Panorama program was really highlighting a problem with Drury & Sons, otherwise nothing new really.
Report sageform July 20, 2021 9:46 AM BST
nobody has explained why Irish trained horses are sent on a long journey to UK for slaughter. That is the one issue that surprised me and should be stopped. Regarding what used to happen, many horses, cattle and sheep that had career ending injuries were killed on the spot and collected by a knacker van, mostly to be fed to hounds. That is how we disposed of all dead animals on farms until it was made illegal several years ago. Since then they have to be buried or if they can walk, sent to a licensed abattoir. It seems very odd to me that the country that has outlawed the export of live animals for slaughter allows them to come IN!
Report sageform July 20, 2021 9:49 AM BST
I should also emphasise that many owners do keep their horses well after retirement (JP McManus being an obvious example) but at some point they have to be put down due to illness or infirmity and not everyone has enough land to bury them all.
Report MJK July 20, 2021 10:09 AM BST
Remember when I was a kid in the old Phoenix Park racecourse seeing a horse get itself speared with a running rail and having to be put down, and my dad saying to me that the dead horses are usually brought over to the zoo. To be honest I had assumed this was still a regular occurrence.
Report Storm Alert July 20, 2021 10:11 AM BST
It's the sheer number of horses that leave training each year. No way can they all be cared for and retraining is not an option for the majority. Jim Joel used to have his races horses euthanised when racing career was over unless they could go on to breeding. His attitude was he could not look after all the horses he had and did not want their welfare going outside his control. I remember a furore about Walnut Wonder being found in a field in a terrible state many years ago.

Tammys Hill being mentioned brought back memories of some great wins, I hadn't realised it effectively had a fatal injury in the Irish National Fairyhouse.

Race horses attrition rate:
https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/
Report differentdrum July 20, 2021 10:24 AM BST
The programme was a pretty horrible watch.

Beyond the visual distress was the figure of 4,000 horses being killed in a year. How many of those are saveable, or indeed not injured? The other major concern is that their are vets that can sanction what was going on. It shouldn't be too difficult to track them down, and they should be immediately removed from the process, if not struck off.

Not great that there wasn't much from inside the bubble with people like Cromwell choosing not to get involved. It gives the impression he is running away. Can they only make statements from the safety of the bubble? Same with the whip, you don't get to hear any opposing opinion.

Racing needs to come together to address the problems raised. Clearly it isn't the bed of roses that we are continually force fed by broadcasters/cheerleaders. The industry is not short of a bob or two, but clearly that bob or two needs to be distributed a lot better.
Report onlooker July 20, 2021 11:01 AM BST
Practically the OPENING Sentence on the PANORAMA programme was ...

"This is  ........ ....... from ANIMAL AID - He wants Horse Racing STOPPED"


That rather set the AGENDA.
Report slickster July 20, 2021 11:05 AM BST
Cromwell at it on many fronts. Finally getting found out. 1 of hundreds sadly.
Report lead on July 20, 2021 11:12 AM BST
Would you want to eat anything that Cromwell had trained?
Report Gagging July 20, 2021 11:13 AM BST
Larabrown • July 19, 2021 6:44 PM BST
Whatever the programme reveals, one thing we can be sure of is that this forum`s response will be predominantly formed by elderly, reactionary males who are totally out of touch with modern day society.
Report Gagging July 20, 2021 11:16 AM BST
s this the same modern day society that promotes surgery for sex changes in immature youngsters, thinks its ok for men to idnetify as women and use their facilities and allows physiologically male wt lifters to compete against women - or those who have vaginas?
Report MJK July 20, 2021 11:19 AM BST
Gagging I'm far from 'elderly ' but if out of touch means basic manners in the street and how to treat people instead of the 'me' society among those who are apparently 'in touch' then I'll gladly stay Hall and Oates.
Report Storm Alert July 20, 2021 11:24 AM BST
reactionary males who are totally out of touch with modern day society

Laugh My favourite type of idiom.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk July 20, 2021 11:27 AM BST
Anyone got a link for the show? Can't find it on Catchup. Ta
Report Storm Alert July 20, 2021 11:28 AM BST
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000y2xm/panorama-the-dark-side-of-hor...
Report Gagging July 20, 2021 11:30 AM BST
MJK - I was quoting Larabrown - but pressed the enter button too soon!
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk July 20, 2021 11:34 AM BST
Thanks Storm Alert
Report differentdrum July 20, 2021 12:09 PM BST
Probably the most horrific thing is that without this 30 minute programme the authorities would be sitting on their hands and carrying on as if everything was great. Further evidence that the sport continues to fail in regulating itself. Just a succession of window dressing.
Report acey deucy July 20, 2021 4:45 PM BST
I mean the gyy taking pot shots from 10ft away was truly truly sickening how the **** is that allowed?
Report acey deucy July 20, 2021 4:46 PM BST
guy even.
Report bluebook July 21, 2021 7:46 PM BST
https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/trainers-react-to-panorama-programm...
Report bluebook July 21, 2021 7:46 PM BST
https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/trainers-react-to-panorama-programm...
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