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Cork Langer
18 Jul 21 10:37
Date Joined: 16 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 38,393 | Blogger: Cork Langer's blog
You read it on here all the time that racing is finished, been reading it for the last twenty years and here we are still playing, different level certainly but still going.

It seems that most on here are happy to fall into the grumpy old man category having attained a certain age and because things are not like they were in the golden era of the 70’s and 80’s.

Well take a deep breath and deal with it, because the product we have now is not going to get any better,  the standard of racing we have now suits the old enemy who are the only people who have the clout to change things and that is not going to happen, as those that want a return to the halcyon days are the very people the bookmakers do not wish to accommodate, as most if not all going by some of the threads on here are clued up and will have had most of their accounts closed.

Everyone needs to move with the times, yes if change were possible I would like to see the number of meetings reduced and certain fixtures moved around so that Saturday’s racing did not pass in a blur on most occasions but one has to change their own approach to deal with it as sure as night follows day there will be no change to the status quo in what is left of my lifetime and most others on here, still wanting to play the game.

The important factor that needs to be identified is why do you play…? Income, recreational or addicted are the three categories I would put most people in, for the first two it is easy to change your modus operandi by learning to be more selective and adjusting stakes accordingly to reflect what should be an obvious decrease in your plays, unfortunately for the third type of course there is no solution.

When I say easy of course I am being economical with the truth because the majority of people find it very difficult to acquire and apply the two most important qualities required to sustain their position, honesty and discipline.

The point about honesty is not an accusation that people are not trustworthy it is whether they can be honest to themselves regarding playing on here, I well remember the early days when having a bad day everything and everyone was to blame accept myself of course, identifying that it was my fault and mine alone in nearly every loss (stewards/Crehan like moment aside) has been one of my most satisfying accomplishments and has led me to a strict level of discipline that is now second nature when I am logged on.

So from today reflect on your own actions before starting a thread complaining about someone or something, you will find in the majority of cases you need to look nearer home for the root cause of your grievance.
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Report IDKW July 18, 2021 10:59 AM BST
Bookmakers are granted a licence by the gambling commission.
The remit of the gambling commission is to ensure that gambling is conducted in a fair and open manner.

Do you believe it is fair and open that punter A is allowed £13k ew @ 16/1 on horse 1, whist punter B is offered .30p ew on the very same horse at the same odds?

There are some of us who will continue to fight against this discrimination until bookmakers are forced to adhere to their responsibilities, however long it takes, whilst at the same time dealing with the current farcical situation.
Report slickster July 18, 2021 11:00 AM BST
Nice write up longer but.... everything is not rosy in the garden. Bookies won't take bets off anyone with half a brain. Mugs only. Drugs are rife. Stopping is rife. Too many meetings. Too many low grade handicaps. Who's turn is it today, especially up north. Too many unreliable trainers. Very few decent jockeys. Tracks catering for drunks, not the regular racegoers who then becomes irre. A tenner for a beef roll. The stuntman "fell" off dozens of odds on shots. Who employed him? I am afraid the future is grim.
Report slickster July 18, 2021 11:01 AM BST
Report Cork Langer July 18, 2021 11:27 AM BST
IDKW, I applaud your efforts even though I believe them to be futile and in no way am I saying what we are left with is acceptable, however for myself and many others I am sure we have not had accounts with bookmakers for many years and have grown accustomed to making do with what we do have and in all honesty can I see things changing? No I am resigned to playing where I can and if I am honest it no longer bothers me as it once did, I have adapted which unfortunately is all that most of us can do I feel.

SLICKSTER, I am in no way implying things are good, all I am advocating is that people learn to change themselves to adapt to what we have to work with, for all the moaning and complaining that I have been reading on here and elsewhere for nigh on twenty years has there been any progress in getting things changed? The answer of course is no because we have no recognised or revered person fighting for the change that is required because it is a closed shop, no one will put their head above the pulpit because we all know what the result will be.
Report GAZO July 18, 2021 11:40 AM BST
racing seems to think its got a great product,take bars out of football stadiums and see what happens to crowds then take them out of racecourses,you will then see how popular racing is
Report Hayden July 18, 2021 11:43 AM BST
Main problems for punters who don't like the word change can be summed up by Einstein....

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Don't listen to the person who has the answers; listen to the person who has the questions.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

Punters who play the game exactly as they did when setting out on the glory trail will have become one-dimensional gamblers locked in the world of " nostalgia " in these rapidly changing times we live in.

Best of luck today all  Happy
Report sparrow July 18, 2021 11:50 AM BST
Well I have been backing horses since the 1960s and was delighted to be able to change my way of betting when the exchange came along. My betting is now 90% in the place only markets and the rest in win markets and laying. I never use bookmakers anymore and see no reason to either.
Report barstool July 18, 2021 12:23 PM BST
I certainly fall into the "grumpy old man" category but see no good reason why not to flag up the bent rides and crooked trainers as and when. No one else will.

Totally agree with your betting discipline.
Report Cork Langer July 18, 2021 12:54 PM BST
It was not in reference to suspect practices which should quite rightly continue to be highlighted, it was the incessant posts that have no substance that I was hoping to get people to reflect on.
Report themightymac July 18, 2021 1:50 PM BST
I have spent all morning on "Live Chat" with a firm who settled my bet incorrectly. Half an hour to find contact methods, another half an hour typing into a computer and staff repeating, "The bet has been settled", I can see. I shouldn`t have to explain the Rules of betting to bookmaker staff. Someone will contact you later. 4 hours later and the bet settlement has not been rectified.

99% of the people who work with these bookies don`t know the fundamental basics about betting and very very little sports knowledge.
Report slickster July 18, 2021 1:55 PM BST
So correct themac. Clueless doesn't begin it. They can't even grasp the basics. And you have Coates bagging 1 million a day!!!!! Just laughable. Cork langer makes decent points but the game is dying on so many fronts.
Report The Pies July 18, 2021 1:56 PM BST
Some people are talking like drinking on racecourses is something new. My first meeting was Magnet Cup day in 1983 on a working mens club trip when the first bottles were opened at 7:30 on the 5 min trip to get on the M1. Went to the Northumberland Plate in the mid 80s and I've never seen so many beer bottles strewn around the enclosures.
Report themightymac July 18, 2021 1:56 PM BST
In reply to Cork`s initial post. Punters have been Criticising jockeys and trainers since racing began. It`s the nature of the game. Some deserve criticism, some don`t. I have always found that the punters hurling abuse, rather than deserved criticism, are losing money they can`t afford. How do they continue gambling when it obviously causes them distress? Simply because gambling is an addiction and they have no control over their habits.
Report Cork Langer July 18, 2021 1:57 PM BST
That is an unfortunate fact TMM, I imagine there are very few savvy staff in the industry these days, certainly in the shops and working for internet companies, with the exception of Ronnie Rails of course...!
Report Cork Langer July 18, 2021 2:02 PM BST
With regard to criticism it is part and parcel of the game and I have no issue if it is warranted but too often now threads appear and there is no substance to what the author is saying in many of them, merely being used to vent their spleen knowing that there is going to be no reply forthcoming in most cases
Report themightymac July 18, 2021 2:03 PM BST
Ronnie is old school indeed Cork and top man. A dying breed of bookies.

.... at this rate, the chances are that I`ll be dead before they resettle my bet correctly. Crazy
Report themightymac July 18, 2021 2:08 PM BST
Whatever happened to Redundant Punter?

I always took notice when he put his fancies up. Like yourself when you put one or two up Cork. You have put a few good winners up the past fortnight. Grin
Report Celtic warrior July 18, 2021 2:16 PM BST
Some things never change:
to copy Cork Ranger:

Discipline, always set yourself a daily worst case betting limit then stop. there will always be racing tomorrow. Often you will end up 'chasing' otherwise at the end of a bad day. Accept your loses and stop.

Honesty, track your bets on excel and analyse. As a minimum take 10 minutes once a week to tot up your running total win/loss. its easy to forget losers and remember winners

Only two staking levels. a fun bet of £2/£5 just for some action/fun. Or a bet which really means something to you if you lose.For me that's a modest £50. This will encourage you to reduce your bets and put in the necessary study every time you bet. no laziness.

Build up a betting bank of at least 40 times your standard stake and bet to level stakes. If you go bust, and this will happen during your betting lifetime take 3-6 months off and build another bank. during this time analyse your reasons for failure and learn from them

Never drink alcohol when you bet either at home or on course. Its easy really, especially if you drive to the races. Obvs if on a fun day out with your friends have 6*£5 fun bets of course and spend more time chatting with your friends

**most important, find an edge. For most this will be specialising e.g trainers, jockeys, class of race, distance. For me its all weather speed ratings which in generate myself.

Never bet on a horse if it is undervalued/too short. walk away. temperament. Adversely if after a bet your horse walks in the betting for no obvious reason then ALWAYS top up your bet

Always bet on betfair, for the simple reason of 97% of prices are bigger than bookmakers

If starting out on betting do spend time on 'matched betting' to get a free £500 for little risk free effort. This will form that betting bank mentioned earlier. A great method for someone in their early twenties with medium intelligence.

And finally, most importantly your are only on this planet once, so enjoy racing for what its worth, the most intriguing, brain stimulating adrenalin inducing sport known to man.
Report Cork Langer July 18, 2021 2:16 PM BST
One of those better patches we all enjoy every so often TMM, as for Redundant Punter he did make a reappearance last year but have not seen anything recently
Report Cork Langer July 18, 2021 2:19 PM BST
Well said Celtic Warrior, all makes sense
Report steerforth July 18, 2021 2:44 PM BST
"...the most intriguing, brain stimulating adrenalin inducing sport known to man"

Nicely phrased - I'll use that the next time I find myself trying to trying to explain my shady hobby to a boring person.
Report Greg_Gory July 18, 2021 3:09 PM BST
I Knew his face rang a bell Laugh

Report bettysboy July 18, 2021 3:49 PM BST
steerforth there is nothing shady about betting, only having to avoid talking about it with boring people. If you ask my advice and you don't have to, then avoid the bores and find life to be much more fun
Report steerforth July 18, 2021 4:34 PM BST
Yeah - I should have put that in invertd commas - it's the bores that see shady, and all too often I engage with them, finding myself  trying to disabuse them. And then realising that it's not worth the effort.
Report Celtic warrior July 18, 2021 5:37 PM BST
Worst of all are those whose first question much have you lost betting? Whilst coming over in a patronising tone.

Same people who gladly spend £6 a day at starbucks
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 19, 2021 12:27 AM BST

Jul 18, 2021 -- 4:59AM, IDKW wrote:

Bookmakers are granted a licence by the gambling commission.The remit of the gambling commission is to ensure that gambling is conducted in a fair and open manner.Do you believe it is fair and open that punter A is allowed £13k ew @ 16/1 on horse 1, whist punter B is offered .30p ew on the very same horse at the same odds?There are some of us who will continue to fight against this discrimination until bookmakers are forced to adhere to their responsibilities, however long it takes, whilst at the same time dealing with the current farcical situation.

This is well said about the current state of bookmaking, its liaghable, Slickster is correct too just below.

Report G Hall July 19, 2021 12:01 PM BST
Good topic Langer, racing has certainly changed and in general, not for the better imo. The biggest plus nowadays is there is far more choice, place betting, laying etc, and being able to place a bet and monitor markets from home, or on the go. The days of rushing to the bookies, or trying to find a bookies in a strange town are long gone.

Ante post betting must also be a shadow of what it once was.

We all know the negatives, so one must take the good with the bad and move on. I think it is
becoming more and more of a test of discipline, in that back in the days bookies closed from Saturday evening until Monday morning, now it is 24/7 and in your face.

I also nott that back in the 80's and 90's, people who bet were like a band of brothers because you didn't seem to know that many people who were into betting, nowadays everyone seems to be betting.
Report barstool July 19, 2021 12:48 PM BST
G.Hall----Nowadays everyone seems to be betting.

Heard a lad at cricket last Saturday telling his mates he had won £200 by backing Jordon Henderson to come on as a sub for England and score the first goal at 400/1.

I did not know whether to laugh or cry.
Report Gordon63 July 19, 2021 1:21 PM BST
no problem with OP reference to the reasons we bet HOWEVER I don't see the problem with
a) calling out misjudged rides or whatever and I could provide 'substance' on the very few associated occasions I post here
b) trying (although it's probably falling on deaf ears - although I have been selected to participate in the whip survey forum later this week, hooray!) to protect and improve (and in many cases that means going back to where it was) a sport which has played a massive part in the last 40 years of my life as punter, racegoer and part-owner. I realise I'm closer to the end than beginning of my life but I've met a few youngsters who also care passionately about racing and the fight is worth continuing
Report SlippyBlue July 19, 2021 2:12 PM BST
Doing bets like that barstool I  don't he'll hang on to that bottle for too long!
Report Cork Langer July 19, 2021 2:30 PM BST
Gordon63, my request was for the repetitive posts to cease not the shall we say genuine ones ie 4 or 5 Spencer threads every time he is late at the finish, are they warranted...?
If it is bad or suspect then it should be highlighted and discussed preferably on one thread, similarly any efforts to improve things are laudable, unfortunately whether it be age or cynicism on my part, I prefer and am resigned to work away with what we now have left to us.
Report penzance July 19, 2021 2:45 PM BST
too many people see the past through rose tinted
The world and life moves on.
Report G Hall July 19, 2021 9:52 PM BST
I can't argue with you there Penzance, I'm as guilty as anyone.
Report Gordon63 July 20, 2021 7:33 AM BST
penzance, regardless of whether the world moves on or not, can you really say that the following have improved the sport for the customer - (most of them have improved the off course bookies revenues although in a markedly falling share of the betting market)

a) summer AW racing
b) 4 day Cheltenham Festival
c) funneling 'good' races to Saturdays
d) introducing Sunday racing (good) but then filling with poor (usually very poor) meetings
e) lack of variance in on course prices - might as well have a big screen showing the exchange odds
f) excessive watering in order to keep firm out of any going description on the flat and correspondingly good/firm on the jumps

and that is without the racecourses chasing their tails with music/ladies/gents nights, massively inflated concession prices, fixture list conflicts etc etc all of which are short sighted in the extreme (remember when greyhound racing in an attempt to re-engage with customers offered 6 for 6 or similar burger/pint/free bet deals, well how did that work out) and which in my view (and that of my racegoing mates) alienate the 'horse racing' customers

rose tinted, nostalgic, whatever, I can say without hesitation I enjoyed going racing or punting from home far more 20 years ago than I do now
Report Cupwinkcook July 20, 2021 8:06 AM BST
A worthwhile thread.

On the subject of drinking when betting, I found i was worse when hungover.

So I rarely drink nowadays.
Report sparrow July 20, 2021 9:11 AM BST
Gordon63......I notice you mention AW flat racing in the summer but not Summer jumping but I agree with the idea of a big screen showing exchange odds.
Report Gordon63 July 20, 2021 9:30 AM BST
sparrow - I didn't (Newton Abbot/Devon & Exeter/Hexham/Perth/Cartmel) and don't have a problem with summer jumping as it gives opportunities to horses who prefer quicker ground which is just not allowed from October-April regardless of mother nature, with the caveat that injuries/fatalities are not significantly different than for the winter season AND allows jockeys/trainers/owners some additional commercial opportunities i.e. not many jump jockeys would earn more than average wage if riding only from October-April!!

I think BHA are frightened (by the anti-racing lobby) of summer jumping to some extent because the calendar is very poor, besides a couple of races at Market Rasen, whereas in Ireland there are some decent races and of course Galway/Killarney/Listowel festivals.
Report sageform July 20, 2021 9:38 AM BST
The current weather conditions do raise welfare issues for horses and racing professionals. 30 degree heat is not suitable for 3 mile chases (or elderly owners/trainers). I am a farmer and a 55 year veteran of racing as an owner and a fan so I am not a critic for the sake of it.
Report sparrow July 20, 2021 9:40 AM BST
Gordon63....Whilst not a fan of jumping I appreciate that many people are and would not advocate ending this. I myself am a fan of AW and low grade racing which just shows we all have our own personal preferences but the courses themselves will put on the races that benefit their businesses.
Report Gordon63 July 20, 2021 10:51 AM BST
sageform - agree even although the facilities on course for cooling down horses pre & post racing are country miles ahead of what they were 30 years ago i.e. nothing!

sparrow - when you say you are a fan of AW and low grade racing, what are you a fan of exactly? I know a couple of guys who specialise in AW racing as a betting medium but even they would admit it's hardly a spectacle, even under the lights
Report sparrow July 20, 2021 11:06 AM BST
Gordon....I mean that those are the races that I do best in and I keep daily records. These days I wouldn't even look at Class 1 -4 handicaps although I do play in some maiden and 2 year old races. I don't understand the spectacle side of it as any winner or placed horse for me is enjoyable irrespective of particular grade. In the past going back to the early 60s I would bet on most races but I have learnt the hard way and stick to what I do best.
Report MJK July 20, 2021 11:29 AM BST
Thread not what I expected.  Thought it would be a photo of that fella that lives in Notre Dame. Can't think of his name but his face rings a bell.
Report Celtic warrior July 20, 2021 6:41 PM BST
MJK. Greg not satisfy you below?
Report MJK July 20, 2021 6:44 PM BST

Jul 20, 2021 -- 12:41PM, Celtic warrior wrote:

MJK. Greg not satisfy you below?


Report Celtic warrior July 20, 2021 6:57 PM BST
Sorry that came out all wrong. Classic double entendre
Report Gordon63 July 20, 2021 7:27 PM BST
sparrow - i get it, from a punting perspective if you've found your niche whatever it may be, then stick to it

my own punting is ew multiples in the 8-1 to 33-1 range, had my best ever royal ascot this year including sandrine and create belief at much bigger odds than SP, that was a good double!!

however much I see of AW racing, be it the mad slingshot dog track at lingfield or the painfully slow home straights at southwell and dundalk, it just doesn't do it for me, that ARC run (or perhaps ruin is more apt) most of the AW tracks is another major negative although of course it won't affect the odds of your 3-1 class 6 5f maiden for 4yos and up!!
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