Forums
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 153 comments are related to the topic:
BBC Panorama - The knives are out again

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
Page 2 of 4  •  Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 153
By:
thegiggilo
When: 13 Jul 21 22:35
Perhaps we could start eating our elderly dogs and cats etc..
By:
roggrain
When: 14 Jul 21 17:46
The BBC will find a tiny handful of the worst case examples and back them up with no concrete

evidence . It (the BBC) has become no better than the gutter press.

Watch the 6 pm news, then switch over to Al Jazeera to find out what's happening in the World.
By:
Storm Alert
When: 14 Jul 21 18:45
Nothing new about this. Every chance of eating an ex thoroughbred in France/Italy/Belgium/Holland in restaurants and from street vendors.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/01/horseracing.sport
By:
A_T
When: 14 Jul 21 19:11
noone in racing wants to talk about what happens to all the useless 2 year olds - the industry narrative is that racing people love their horses and this doesn't fit
By:
CROPSICK
When: 15 Jul 21 08:31
i wonder what happens to all the pet dogs/cats when they get too old? maybe Panorama should do an expose on them, after all are'nt they bred just to give humans pleasure.
By:
MJK
When: 15 Jul 21 09:17
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/horse-racing/7291148/gordon-elliott-photo-social-media-post-ban/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=irishsunsportfacebook&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1626297568

I think Gordon picked a bad time to post...
By:
Carveth
When: 15 Jul 21 15:37
CROPSTICK I think we can all accept that when a pet gets old and sick, it is often in the animal’s best interest to be put down. Some people with serious medical conditions also feel that they should have this right.

The issue with horses that don’t make the grade is that some are being put down purely for economic reasons. You would like to think there are more options for younger horses e.g. retraining but perhaps these are not being fully considered (see my post above) and for older retired horses there needs to be adequate funding of racehorse sanctuaries.

I suspect there is an oversupply of racehorses because of generous tax systems for thoroughbred breeding in certain countries and this could well be a major component of the problem (we may find out more on Monday’s Panorama programme).

The process by which the horse is euthanised needs to be considered. For example, in Canada you can transport live horses to Japan & Europe for consumption. A group in Canada have taken out a lawsuit against the Canadian government specifically about overcrowding of draft horses (in crates) on planes. According to William Jones (The Black Horse is Dying, 2020) “Canadian laws permit horses to be transported in these crates for up to 36 hours without food and water”.
By:
impossible123
When: 15 Jul 21 19:55
Maybe consider breeding fewer horses for horseracing. If necessary, ensuring any horse bred for the purpose but not made the grade must not be sold for human consumption or economic reason. A tax at sale could be instigated to ensure this happens. But, owners/breeders are a greedy lot with self-interests and big ego to satisfy.
By:
workrider
When: 15 Jul 21 21:40
The BHA want MORE racing so for that to happen we need to breed more, maybe if you had a word in their ear they might listen Impossible...
By:
basilbrush
When: 17 Jul 21 17:36
Im already taking the knee with all the owners of Black horses. Outrageous the way black horses are discriminated against.
By:
impossible123
When: 17 Jul 21 18:57
Was Shergar a black horse? I think Dancing Brave was. Correct?
By:
themightymac
When: 17 Jul 21 19:32
No twice.
By:
themightymac
When: 17 Jul 21 19:34
Ex racehorses have been getting exported to Belgian abattoirs for decades. All about money.
By:
impossible123
When: 17 Jul 21 20:01
I saw Dancing Brave at Goodwood after the misjudgement by Starkey; his coat was glistening. Shergar only on tv having my biggest bet then £100 (I was a student then) in his Derby.
By:
Cantthinkofaclevername
When: 17 Jul 21 20:51
Different Gravy - I have eaten horsemeat in France and it tastes absolutely nothing like chicken. Different texture too.
By:
A_T
When: 18 Jul 21 10:50
The BBC will find a tiny handful of the worst case examples and back them up with no concrete


the fact remains what happens to all the useless 2 year olds?
By:
Carveth
When: 18 Jul 21 17:25
Prior to the Panorama programme tomorrow on BBC One at 8.30pm its worth considering how horseracing fares in relation to the objectives below, that are set out on page 82 of the Horse Welfare Board's (an independent body set up by the BHA) A Life Well Lived: A new strategic plan for the welfare of horses bred for racing, 2020-2024:

In terms of public and political trust, we must be able to demonstrate that:
• The racing industry prioritises the welfare of racehorses over e.g. commercial considerations.
• The racing industry is responsible, ethical, open and transparent.
• The racing industry is responsive to outside concerns about welfare. Where these concerns relate to genuine welfare issues, the industry will address them. Where they are based on myths and misperceptions, the industry will take steps to build greater public understanding.
• Racing can be trusted to be self-regulating.
• British racing is a world leader in furthering the welfare of racehorses and of horses in general.

I can see that ITV Racing is trying very hard to inform and educate new and existing followers of horse racing via the Home-Schooling slot, showing efforts to protect horses during hot conditions (see bullet point 3 above) etc. as they did yesterday, there was a very brief mention during televised racing by Ed Chamberlain about horse welfare. The Panorama programme will no doubt take us into far more uncomfortable territory and will be played out in the court of public opinion.

I'm hoping the BHA will respond by outlining what progress has been made with the plan and what the potential barriers are. Horse racing often seems to struggle to come together to resolve issues e.g. financing and prize money, and this publicity is not going to make life any easier. These welfare issues need to be addressed, going beyond just a damage limitation exercise.

Note: the strategic plan is available from the BHA website via Regulation and governance/Equine health and welfare/Horse welfare board
By:
cloone river
When: 19 Jul 21 00:28
Maybe panorama should do a documentary on the BBC?
By:
breadnbutter
When: 19 Jul 21 00:44
Horse racing: Thousands of racehorses killed in slaughterhouses

Article just appeared on the BBC site.

Gorden elliot, ire,covert abattoir footage, 4000 dead horses, ect ect.

Banning hunting was the thin edge of a very big wedge.
By:
casemoney
When: 19 Jul 21 01:42
If Elliott is in the Focus again with new allegations he is finish,any mention of wired to moon animals running round Cheltenham ?
By:
casemoney
When: 19 Jul 21 01:47
It captured dozens of former racehorses being slaughtered, the majority of them from Ireland and the majority young.

Some of the horses shot in the abattoir had previous illustrious racing careers, winning thousands of pounds.

Three of them had been trained by Gordon Elliott at his state-of-the-art stables in County Meath, Ireland.

He told Panorama none of the three animals were sent to the abattoir by him.

The horses had retired from racing due to injury, he said, and were not under his care when they were killed.

Elliott said two of the horses were sent to a horse dealer "to be rehomed if possible, and if not, to be humanely euthanised" in line with the regulations.

He said he gave the third horse to another rider as requested by its owner.

And he said the first time he learned of their fate was when Panorama contacted him.

Yep Gordy involved again ,Time to walk me thinks
By:
casemoney
When: 19 Jul 21 01:49
Look forward to the Bisto Mob covering this on Saturday Grin
By:
CROPSICK
When: 19 Jul 21 08:33
Carveth i agree about oversupply but there are tens of  thousands of healthy young dogs put down every year, owners cant cope, novelty wears off etc and a lot of these dogs end up in dogs homes where after 3 weeks if cant be rehoused they are put down. 
  The BBC dont do a expose on this matter because they are anti-horse racing which they believe does not fit there new pro youth agenda.
By:
Carveth
When: 19 Jul 21 09:02
This quote is taken from the Richard Forristal article (Racing braced for Panorama episode that focuses on fate of horses after racing) on the Racing Post webpages:

One source familiar with the Panorama queries suggested
"You wouldn't imagine it will reflect some of the information that they are in receipt of, in terms of horses being rehomed etc. That's not going to be the tone of it. Clearly, there are some horses that simply don't have the temperament for another job, and there are times when euthanasia will be the most sensible option to ensure they don't fall into the wrong hands, but by and large trainers go to considerable lengths to avoid that option.

The difficulty will be how it's portrayed to an audience that is potentially already anti-racing and doesn't in any way relate to or understand that there will always be a certain level of attrition when it comes to livestock."

1.    There will always be a certain level of attrition when it comes to livestock

Do we have any sense of how big the problem is? So, if you followed a cohort of two-years olds over a five-year period how many would have ceased racing and for what reason? If the horse exchanged hands who was the horse’s next owner. Generating these data might not be possible until comprehensive traceability is in place (See 9 Outcome 2: Collective LIFETIME RESPONSIBILITY in “A life well lived”, Horse Welfare Board).

An alternative in the short-term could be to utilise Racing Post's Horses in Training. You should be able to link across years by horse’s name, the dam and sire. If the two-year old doesn’t have a name at the outset, then it will probably have a name by the time it becomes a three-year-old. Once all horses from the original cohort who have ceased racing have been identified the last trainer/owner could be approached/surveyed and asked what happened to the horse (may be the trainer would be easier, their addresses and emails are found in Horses in Training).

Data is also be needed on racehorses that are never raced, not sure what the best source for this would be (Weatherbys/Defra?). Comments from members suggest the horses being slaughtered are on the younger side.

2.    There are times when euthanasia will be the most sensible option.

Have trainers and owners been provided with guidance in relation to euthanasia by the BHA and if so, what is this guidance? The public would be expecting a degree of effort to be put into this before euthanasia becomes the only option. The outcomes might not be so good for the less able racehorses. Home Schooling on ITV Racing does feature retired horses when it can e.g., Sire de Grugy last Saturday but it would be good to know what happens to lower rated horses and those who don’t make the grade.

Epitaph: Horse racing has been slow to move with the times and may suffer the consequences. KeMoH states “the real problem is that racing is run by those who would happily bend over backwards to accommodate those outsiders, lets be honest, just want the sport banned altogether” (See the post "Why in there such fear about this Panorama Programme").

Personally, I didn’t consider horse welfare issues sufficiently as I should until the Gordon Elliot episode and thought it was only right to become more informed (the lightbulb moment). There will always be “outsiders” who disagree with a particular view but when those who are followers of racing (e.g. some Betfair forum members) start to come off the fence you know there is a problem. I suspect there may be people directly involved in racing who have felt this way but would rather not be the whistle-blower/bearer of bad news. Also, you do get a sense at times of a culture of secrecy and an over influential fraternity. This is not just confined to horse racing but does lead to mistrust.

In society a plethora of issues are effectively ignored and for others there can be a long-drawn-out process to resolve the issue (e.g. Hillsborough, will Grenfell Tower go the same way?). When an issue is ignored those who disagree start to react and positions become even more polarised and difficult to resolve. Is this where Horse Racing now finds itself?
By:
skiptoomaloumacari
When: 19 Jul 21 09:51
It's not really that horses are euthanized at the end of their careers...... That's always been a fact of life but they should always be treated with respect ie not how Mr Elliott treated that poor animal.....
By:
xaar
When: 19 Jul 21 11:54
what annoys me is the people who condemn racing while discussing it with their lovely friends around dinner while pushing dead animals around their plate Laugh
By:
barstool
When: 19 Jul 21 11:58
As was the case with the Greyhound industry two or three decades ago too many horses are being bred for racing. If a bitch had a litter of ten pups, there would usually be a couple of nervous ones and one or two that would not "chase". Taken across the industry that is 30/40% of redundant stock at the start of their careers. I have no figures regarding horse racing but would guess a similar amount never make it to the track. Most of these will be re-homed, which then makes the take up of retired stock much harder to find and a means of disposal becomes necessary. That is the crux of the problem. Any caring owner would find a nice bit of pasture for an animal in later life if it had served them well, but alas, to many they are mere "toys" or "tools".

Yet some want more racing, are they mad? Reduce the bloated fixture list now and reduce the breeding of all these poor graded animals. Limit the number of horses an owner can have in training and it will enable the horses to have a worthwhile value and Horse Racing will be a competitive sport again.

Very sad but not surprising to see one name mentioned already. It really is time to kick the Cowboys out of the Saloon.
By:
sageform
When: 19 Jul 21 12:22
Much harder to rehome during Covid19 restrictions I suspect. Very few equestrian competitions.
By:
paulo47
When: 19 Jul 21 12:29
Totally agree Barstool , a racehorse retires at (say) 10 and lives to late 20s , its not just the bit of pasture , care is also required which costs . Thoroughbreds in particular are not out to grass  24/7 365 days a year.
By:
breadnbutter
When: 19 Jul 21 12:37
The word euthanized is problematic imo, its more a human term, humans are euthanized in hospices, horses are shot.

If we start euthanizing horses then they can't be used for food, either pet or human.

Seems such a waste if we can't use the meat.

On the Gordon Elliot picture, did anyone ever find out what the horses name was?

Seemed odd it wasn't mentioned, the horse with no name!
By:
casemoney
When: 19 Jul 21 13:00
The horse was named can remember what it was called
By:
lead on
When: 19 Jul 21 13:02
Morgan,I think
By:
casemoney
When: 19 Jul 21 13:04
Regarding the Irish Didn't the same thing happen when the Celtic Tiger stopped roaring a few years back  , hundreds were destroyed as the ownwers went skint
By:
casemoney
When: 19 Jul 21 13:04
Yes that was it Lead
By:
Gordon63
When: 19 Jul 21 13:13
IMO the references to Elliot are 'sensationalist' and not particularly relevant i.e. 3 out of 1000s, however the far bigger issue is that the BHA continues to let the Industry down (I'll leave any views on IHRB to our friends across the water) with their blinkered focus on inclusivity/diversity and tinkering with making horse racing more non-(base)customer friendly whilst doing a very passable impression of Emperor Nero...including in last few weeks alone


1 the dead heat that wasn't
2 the reversal of one result whereas another with arguably more interference stands
3 disproportionate ban for an APPRENTICE for what was almost certainly an error of judgement
4 continued blind eyes for many many examples of non triers
5 continued over racing - why are there ANY AW meetings from May-September

the woes continue and the gravy train floweth
By:
ashleigh
When: 19 Jul 21 13:29
on the bbc lunchtime news now.
By:
sageform
When: 19 Jul 21 13:32
Gordon63, none of your list is relevant to the export of Irish horses to be slaughtered in UK abattoirs. What do you propose? Half as many races? That would cause tens of thousands of horses to be put down until the breeding industry shrinks to the appropriate size.
By:
sageform
When: 19 Jul 21 13:35
The BBC always big up a new edition of Panorama and many other of its programmes. It is their version of advertising which they claim to avoid. As they no longer televise any racing, it is fair game for criticism in contrast to Boxing which they cover and gloss over the awful consequences of.
By:
Gordon63
When: 19 Jul 21 13:50
sageform, maybe perceptiveness isn't one of your qualities - I never said those points had anything to do with the subject of the programme BUT they are representative of the industry regulator failing on almost every count and unfortunately animal welfare is also failing.  there are ample amount of abbatoirs in Ireland so perhaps it's a taxation or regulatory issue which results in horses coming to UK to be slaughtered, the right people to address that question are the haulage companies and their clients who transport the horses...the breaches of welfare standards and the behaviour within abbatoirs should be subject of police prosecutions, you don't get much clearer evidence than CCTV

and yes I've repeatedly said there needs to be less racing, so if the breeders have less produce so be it, until the market corrects itself there are lots of people who would be happy to look after ex-racehorses which have a compatible temperament, i remember 'free to a good home' adverts in the past
By:
xmoneyx
When: 19 Jul 21 15:58
uk sends mega tons of rubbish to third world countries

it knows what will happen to it

irish trainers pay people to take horses to uk

they know what happens

were not talking little house on the prairie
Page 2 of 4  •  Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
‹ back to topics
www.betfair.com