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DOUBLED
05 Jul 21 15:18
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Date Joined: 15 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 1,914 | Blogger: DOUBLED's blog
On its last legs now so will we see the year out ?
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Report gpz6316 July 12, 2021 9:55 PM BST
bare in mind the drones are 5-7 seconds in front so if you draw the line at the furlong marker or are betting on terrestrial coverage the drones are looking at a couple of hundred yards to go . you should be able to read into the race and place your position at the 2f marker imo . other than that its finding a legal framework to ban the drones
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 12, 2021 10:32 PM BST
gpz6316 12 Jul 21 20:55 
bare in mind the drones are 5-7 seconds in front

clown nite tonite.
Report gpz6316 July 12, 2021 10:39 PM BST
clown - nite ? their not ? whos the clown ? and why ?
Report mitolo July 12, 2021 10:54 PM BST
Rico-Dangleflaps 12 Jul 21 20:23 
like when something took off in front and the fav reared at the start and hampered the rest of em.

how would the fav rearing hmp the others? and how can you guarantee the one that took off wins?'


it guarantees nothing, but it was a five runner race, and the jolly has gone out of it and in the process put off at least 1 of the others(from memory)
bear(not bare) in mind i was betting at sp, with 6 seconds and if the jolly is gone my bet on the one in front becomes very valuable. doesnt always work, but in the long run, its a mini goldmine, as i said earlier. ive been known to back 5 and still lose.

move on; dieppe which has more 5 furlong races than any other frog track. ive decided to load up, to get the max from the front-runners or lay the slow-starters. 2 are slow away so i backed the other 5 winning between 50 and 500 on any of them. but what i hadnt realised was the 25mph headwind which allowed tho 2 id ignored to come through and win, doing me 1k. this happened twice before i consulted windfinder and beat meself about the bonce. tracks on the coast are prone to this, and i usually check redcar and yarmouth for this but had become lazy and didnt bother with frog cos it wa free munee....

heres another
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 12, 2021 11:12 PM BST
be careful with Laytown.
Report mitolo July 12, 2021 11:22 PM BST
too many track players
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 15, 2021 1:46 PM BST
Leic -1.2
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 15, 2021 1:51 PM BST
Chep -2.3
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 15, 2021 9:56 PM BST
big d 4.6
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 15, 2021 10:29 PM BST
Length or girth.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 15, 2021 11:16 PM BST
from the floor
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 16, 2021 5:07 PM BST
Kilb -1
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 16, 2021 5:44 PM BST
Newm -1
Report HappyHibby July 16, 2021 5:56 PM BST
thought we were constantly being told RTV BLV was 0.6 secs behind 'live' IMS...???

are you saying that's poppyc0ck...?
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 16, 2021 7:10 PM BST
Kilb actually about -1.2
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 16, 2021 10:49 PM BST
its finnish.

goodbye.
Report HappyHibby July 17, 2021 7:46 AM BST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jm3Tq_q4yU
Report Rico-Dangleflaps July 17, 2021 10:45 AM BST
very appropriate hibs..unfortunately.
Report HappyHibby July 17, 2021 11:16 AM BST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg2KWIpZW-U
Report DOUBLED July 20, 2021 6:26 PM BST
tick tock ...
Report DOUBLED August 9, 2021 2:23 PM BST
tick tock ...
Report ballyregan August 9, 2021 2:32 PM BST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbMwTqkKSps
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 2:36 PM BST
As long as betfair make their commission it will continue.
Report ballyregan August 9, 2021 2:41 PM BST
it will continue sparrow but it is regressing i read somewhere that that goodwood was 10 million down on just last year
Report ballyregan August 9, 2021 2:42 PM BST
matched bet turnover
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 2:43 PM BST
I would imagine almost all racing markets are down, ballyregan.
Report DOUBLED August 9, 2021 2:53 PM BST
sparrow09
As long as betfair make their commission it will continue

Fairly random statement sparrow !! What if the commission does not cover the operating costs of the exchange ?
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 2:57 PM BST
Then it won't continue will it.
Which is fairly obvious I would have thought.
Report duffy August 9, 2021 2:59 PM BST
Maybe if they become bothered by it they will address the picture delays.
Report DOUBLED August 9, 2021 3:05 PM BST
As I said Sparrow a random statement !! You need to sustitute "their" with "enough" ...fairly obvious I would have thought Wink
Report dustybin August 9, 2021 3:30 PM BST
They have already made up their minds, they have said as good as much in the latest 'Q+A'
They have convinced themselves there is no reason for new investment in IR.
The idea that they'd now break a habit of a lifetime and start throwing money at the picture issue is fanciful; the only rights issues they will be involved with is in American Sport.

Given that this place has been on a slow bleed for years they'd have to double down investment to convince everyone to come back...why when there's a new boy in town in the guise of a tried and tested product of exchange-hybrid 'fantasy sports'?
Report swiftynifty August 9, 2021 3:35 PM BST
ballyregan , if matched bet turnover is down yet scalping bot use is up, then BF's IR profits must be well down yet they do nothing to reverse it.
Report dustybin August 9, 2021 3:40 PM BST
Playing out time
Not like they are paying many wages
Report Brian August 9, 2021 3:50 PM BST
There is only one thing that will make Betfair improve which is that one of the younger exchanges start growing at a substantial rate. Flutter are happy if Betfair decrease in size as long they remain the dominant force and are therefore reducing the overall exchange business with traditional bookmakers benefitting.
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 3:55 PM BST
The problem remains the same in that the majority prefer to bet with bookmakers for some strange reason.
Report thurnscoe thunder August 9, 2021 4:02 PM BST
Not always true Sparrow, i would prefer to bet on here but Premium Charge makes it impossible to use anymore. My non inrunning betting has to move to **** or bookmakers
Report thurnscoe thunder August 9, 2021 4:03 PM BST
Im pretty sure im not alone, virtually every winning account paying charges is forced off the exchange unless playing inrunning where alternatives practically dont exist
Report swiftynifty August 9, 2021 4:08 PM BST
tt, that's the bit I just can't fathom that BF haven't addressed. No-one on PC can bet here pre-race so they lose all of that business.
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 4:13 PM BST
I understand that thurnscoe but you are in a very small minority.
Report swiftynifty August 9, 2021 4:16 PM BST
Not saying it's that easy but they have the technology, they know exact off times, they could differentiate bt a pre-race and IR bet and charge comm accordingly. Must be missing something.
Report thurnscoe thunder August 9, 2021 4:35 PM BST
The Premium charge now needs a major rethink for me.
I fully accept playing inrunning only and taking too much money from the exchange was and maybe still is an issue for Betfair, and i understand the reasoning from Betfair when it was introduced to make some users pay the extra.
Im not convinced that the explanation of where the money was supposed to go is where it actually goes anymore, im pretty sure the investment into getting new blood especially in running on the racing where the premium charge is being taken is happening anymore, im sure we all believe that its just a lump sum for the income column.

Im one of quite a few stuck between a rock and a hard place now, and Betfair itself is incapable in its current guise to cut me any slack, they are slowly strangling users from the exchange and im not sure whether they realise it or care.
I can only play in running on here as Premium charge means i cant bet.
Betfair will tell me i need to bet on other markets and win and lose at a big rate in order to hit 40% commission in order that i dont pay Premium Charge.
Now to set off with i wont because i was what they were initially after someone technically with a 'sharp mind' who they marketed and welcomed because i didnt want to be ripped off at traditional bookmakers.
Then even if Premium charge is disbanded and i can bet at better odds, wheres my incentive to do so, when i know an email may well be coming regarding deposits or account controls etc if i have the big swings in my betting.
Do i want to send my financial documentation in, do i hope Betfair make allowances for being a long standing customer, etc
Premium Charge should now be scraped or altered to try and find incentives that people use this site for all their betting.
The ridiculous £250k limit for 40%, which should imo increase by 25k each year your on here to let you win so much before you pay each year.
Betfair had been going approx 10 years when they imposed that limit so 25k a year.
I had never paid Premium Charge until that point in the few years they introduced it as i was always around 28-33% lifetime commission, so never fell into the Premium Charge of 20%, but overnight it stopped my general betting on here dead

I also believe that they were happy for people to walk away and leave as a few i know did or tried to do, as the reasoning was someone else will step up and take your place.
Im not sure thats true anymore.
If the 1000 layers are hit, and need to deposit but are told the documentation is needed to verify account finances etc, and it freezes them out, wheres the next generation of extreme price layers going to come from, its the same for the 1.01 backers.
The people on here arent going to step in and take their place anytime soon.
At the minute its leave larger amounts in Betfair or suffer.
You cant withdraw, withdraw, withdraw, then deposit a large amount without consequences of fearing the emails.

Just looking at market liquidity today, im baffled by the hierarchy that they can sit and watch the destruction of something that took so long to build up, without trying to think outside the box.

I couldnt use Betfair for the World Cup, Wimbledon, Copa America, Olympics, 100 Cricket, Grand National, Royal Ascot, NFL, etc is this really what the company still desires for the exchange, do they still believe in new blood appearing rather than see what long term users can bring ???

Sorry if it doesnt flow too well, rant over lol
Report dustybin August 9, 2021 4:43 PM BST
The very idea that some won egregious amounts based on an advantage that they themselves wouldnt address is no longer true either.
If people win they earn it now, the markets have never been so fair so why such an artificial tax to compensate?
Report dustybin August 9, 2021 4:46 PM BST
....and while it maybe true that the PC payers are the monority, they are also the most succesful and have made the most money.
They completely cut their noses off to spite their face discouraging any of them to reinvest the capital they have made and instead to spend it with their rivals.
Report dustybin August 9, 2021 4:46 PM BST
minority
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 4:48 PM BST
I suppose the answer is that they see no incentive in increasing business on the exchange which would only hit their bookmaking profits so they will just carry on as they are.  Unfortunately the bookmakers have succeeded in retaining their dominance and the majority of punters couldn't really care too much.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps August 9, 2021 5:50 PM BST
pp are bookmakers..not interested in p to p.

the biggest embarrassment from a company of this magnitude is stopping people betting pre race.

abso mind boggling.
Report 11kv August 9, 2021 5:55 PM BST
Divide and conka
Report ballyregan August 9, 2021 6:14 PM BST
sparrow you just scored a beauty on big match revisitted then
Report Jungle August 9, 2021 6:14 PM BST
There’s virtually no real money left in the in running markets now but it’s possible Betfair are making as much as they always have with premium charge and the Betfair bot being so efficient that they are still happy. All they have targeted is to take as much as possible as quickly as possible.
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 6:43 PM BST
ballyregan 09 Aug 21 17:14 
sparrow you just scored a beauty on big match revisitted then




I watched it at dinner time 2-2 with Everton and yes Pop Robson.
Report ballyregan August 9, 2021 6:59 PM BST
you scored again chelsea 2-0 luton a good day for you
Report sparrow August 9, 2021 7:13 PM BST
ballyregan......There was an incident in that game that you never see anymore when West Ham were awarded an indirect free kick inside the penalty area and just 6 yards from goal. The decision was for obstruction in the penalty area.
Report ballyregan August 9, 2021 7:26 PM BST
lots have things have changed sparrow including when swain took that player out and five elderly st johns ambulance guys wheeled out that big trolly contraption to take him off if i was that player I would have got up and walked off rather than them fellas lift me on to that thing and having a very bumpy ride off the pitch
Report DOUBLED August 10, 2021 2:03 PM BST
Aristobulus 1.55 Nottingham

£1200 takes it from 1/2 to 1/6 Laugh


1.18            £916       
1.19            £30       
1.2            £254       
1.21            £58       
1.22            £22       
1.23            £200       
1.24            £15       
1.25            £18       
1.26            £16       
1.27            £40       
1.28        £35    £181       
1.3            £38       
1.31            £4       
1.32            £119       
1.33            £320       
1.34            £97       
1.35            £79       
1.36            £4       
1.37            £10       
1.4            £66       
1.41            £44       
1.42        £6    £5       
1.44            £22       
1.45            £22       
1.46            £39       
1.47            £25       
1.48            £4       
1.49            £12       
1.5            £161
Report ItsMeSwaddle August 11, 2021 2:02 PM BST
Finnish
Report DOUBLED September 3, 2021 4:19 PM BST
tick tock ...
Report stayinin September 3, 2021 4:44 PM BST
DOUBLED
DOUBLED03 Sep 21 15:19Joined: 15 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 1,865 | Blogger: DOUBLED's blog
tick tock ...


coming from someone who uses fast pictures why aye man Laugh

losing your touch Doubled Laugh
Report gerard September 3, 2021 4:45 PM BST
You've been on here a while, Doubled - I'm not saying things are great but when was the first time you saw someone put "tick tock" on an IR is finnish thread? I'll go 2007....
Report DOUBLED September 3, 2021 4:50 PM BST
We will see ...
Report sparrow September 3, 2021 4:53 PM BST
doubled....So why post on a pre race thread virtually the same thing?
Report DOUBLED September 3, 2021 4:56 PM BST
que veux-tu dire ?
Report sparrow September 3, 2021 5:03 PM BST
Try looking at the thread you posted on earlier today, doubled.  It was about pre-race markets.
Report DOUBLED September 3, 2021 5:29 PM BST
merci
Report JML September 4, 2021 3:12 PM BST
Not always true Sparrow, i would prefer to bet on here but Premium Charge makes it impossible to use anymore. My non inrunning betting has to move to **** or bookmakers


Why do bookmakers take your buisness? It's no secret that they normally limit winners to pennies.
Report JML September 4, 2021 3:20 PM BST
Im pretty sure im not alone, virtually every winning account paying charges is forced off the exchange unless playing inrunning where alternatives practically dont exist

Did you ever stop to think before you wrote this rubbish?

If there were no other PC payers on here I'd win over £1 million a year.
Report sparrow September 4, 2021 3:50 PM BST
To avoid any confusion those statements quoted above were from poster Thurnscoe Thunder.
Report JML September 4, 2021 3:56 PM BST
apologies sparrow for not making that clear
Report sparrow September 4, 2021 3:58 PM BST
No worries, JML.
Report ItsMeSwaddle September 12, 2021 2:43 PM BST
Chelm LV -1.4
Report thurnscoe thunder September 12, 2021 3:38 PM BST
JML
JML04 Sep 21 14:12Joined: 10 May 05 | Topic/replies: 2,236 | Blogger: JML's blog
Not always true Sparrow, i would prefer to bet on here but Premium Charge makes it impossible to use anymore. My non inrunning betting has to move to **** or bookmakers


Why do bookmakers take your buisness? It's no secret that they normally limit winners to pennies.


The comments were regarding having to take my general betting away from the site to elsewhere because Betfairs Premium Charge from my inrunning activity is at 40% thus it makes it impossible for me to use the site for activity in other markets.
If other markets apart from the in running (which i accept is what they are aiming PC at) were at the normal rate of commission I would gladly use this site and obviously my liquidity would come with it.

I mentioned the other main exchange which has been blanked out, obviously they have no reason to stop my bets
Regarding bookies I dont have any issues with 1 bookmaker who ive used for years and who dont mind me winning when I have a good run (i know they get a mullering from some on here but theyve been nothing but accommodating with me) maybe its the way I use them, I dont arb so wouldnt just be visiting the site when theyre standout price on an arb opportunity or some tipster has highlighted something, I know I struggle with the rest, whether theyre winning or losing accounts.

I dont profess to be a winning account at the bookmakers, its pure gambling on fancies, some win some lose, Im under no illusion over time I may be slightly up as I am currently with them or slightly down as I will no doubt be in the future.
Report thurnscoe thunder September 12, 2021 3:45 PM BST
JML04 Sep 21 14:20Joined: 10 May 05 | Topic/replies: 2,236 | Blogger: JML's blog
Im pretty sure im not alone, virtually every winning account paying charges is forced off the exchange unless playing inrunning where alternatives practically dont exist

Did you ever stop to think before you wrote this rubbish?

If there were no other PC payers on here I'd win over £1 million a year.


Not sure why this is rubbish unless youre miss interpreting what Ive put or taking it out of context.
I play in running racing on here as I say an healthy alternative doesnt exist, however whats rubbish about saying winning accounts who pay PC bet elsewhere ?
Would you not use BD exchange at 2% for a bet on a sporting event or a bookmakers, rather that have £100 on a 1/1 shot and walk away with £60 profit if it wins ???
Report dustybin September 12, 2021 5:14 PM BST
While the sentiment is correct; that PC was aimed at IR betting, it doesnt mean all IR betting or by definition any succesfull gambler is fair game to be taxed at 40%
Bf werent so tardy in buying up ownership of media rights in America, so why do they allow such disparity while providing the vehicle to gamble IR here in the UK?

Is it because they take 40%?
Report dustybin September 12, 2021 5:15 PM BST
Remember bf sold themselves as bringing integritty to gambling.
Report kjansch September 12, 2021 5:37 PM BST
ItsMeSwaddle

Chelm LV -1.4


are you being serious?
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 12, 2021 5:39 PM BST
1.4 yds
Report dustybin September 12, 2021 5:46 PM BST
The regulator has completely failed
They can only be utterly incompetent, or totally wilfully negligent.

Nobody who knows what happens in IR betting can come to any other conclusion.
Report dustybin September 12, 2021 6:07 PM BST
It simply has no logical bearing
To suggest a bet is suspicious based on the connection to a horse and its implied intention of winning or not
Yet actually seeing a horse win or about to win is totally free from scrutiny when its paid for by all those who havnt seen it.

And people wonder why IR betting is doomed.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 12, 2021 9:21 PM BST
without the bot there wouldnt be ir..all automated % controlled..

the sharks have ate all the salmon.
Report brassneck September 12, 2021 10:24 PM BST
i am amazed that people who are posting on this thread seem to forget that PADDY POWER owns 52% of this company called paddy/betfair.
Report JML September 12, 2021 11:48 PM BST
Not sure why this is rubbish unless youre miss interpreting what Ive put or taking it out of context.
I play in running racing on here as I say an healthy alternative doesnt exist, however whats rubbish about saying winning accounts who pay PC bet elsewhere ?
Would you not use BD exchange at 2% for a bet on a sporting event or a bookmakers, rather that have £100 on a 1/1 shot and walk away with £60 profit if it wins ???


If the £100 loses you will pay £40 less on any future PC than if you hadn't lost £100 on that bet.

Therefore it's an even £60 bet. In fact it's fractionally better because commission is 2% and implied commission is 3%.

If you want a even £100 you place a bet of £167.
Report JML September 13, 2021 12:05 AM BST
*better than Evens
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 13, 2021 5:12 PM BST
If the £100 loses you will pay £40 less on any future PC than if you hadn't lost £100 on that bet.

so you place the bet knowing it will all work out if it loses?Laugh
Report pablo-fanque September 13, 2021 5:15 PM BST
If you want a even £100 you place a bet of £167

who is winding who up on this thread please Confused
Report swiftynifty September 13, 2021 5:16 PM BST
I get the thinking. Before i went on fixed rate I used to calculate PC on a Sunday night and you could be betting X stake on an evens shot for example, knowing you'd be getting 1/2X back from a PC reduction. A value bet. Of course not if it loses but long term etc worth doing. You should try it.
Report duncan idaho September 13, 2021 7:56 PM BST
swifty, dont suppose you have a simple equation for how you work out your own PC? (i'm not the sharpest and havent got round to doing it myself as i know it would make my head hurt!)
Report swiftynifty September 13, 2021 8:28 PM BST
duncan, do you use gruss?
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 13, 2021 8:48 PM BST
dunc..the simple equation is..

if you start the week on say 40%..on sunday night you simply calculate how much commission you've paid (ie all winning bets) so lets say you end up approx +£1000 net..consisting of £2000 of losing bets and £3000 winning bets
your commission is £3000 x 2% = £60 so gross profit is £1060 x 40% = £424
implied commission (losing bets is £2000 x 3% = £60
so your charges are £60 + £60/2 = £60
PC is £424 = £60 =£364.
Report duncan idaho September 14, 2021 2:56 PM BST
yes i do swifty? something on there?

thanks Rico...you've lost me with the last 2 lines tho!

so your charges are £60 + £60/2 = £60  (??)
PC is £424 = £60 =£364   (?)
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 14, 2021 3:20 PM BST
charges are commission paid and implied losses on losing bets added and divided by 2.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 14, 2021 3:21 PM BST
the charges are then deducted from the PC.
Report duncan idaho September 14, 2021 3:26 PM BST
(60+60)/2= 60...gotcha

cheers
Report swiftynifty September 14, 2021 3:27 PM BST
duncan, use gruss, account, type in dates monday to sunday it will give you commission paid for the week. Then use calc, as above posted above by rico.
Report swiftynifty September 14, 2021 3:31 PM BST
if you are paying 2% then X by 50 to get your gross win.
Report duncan idaho September 14, 2021 3:31 PM BST
lovely, swifty. thanks
Report Gin September 15, 2021 2:19 PM BST
JML12 Sep 21 22:48Joined: 10 May 05 | Topic/replies: 2,240 | Blogger: JML's blog
Not sure why this is rubbish unless youre miss interpreting what Ive put or taking it out of context.
I play in running racing on here as I say an healthy alternative doesnt exist, however whats rubbish about saying winning accounts who pay PC bet elsewhere ?
Would you not use BD exchange at 2% for a bet on a sporting event or a bookmakers, rather that have £100 on a 1/1 shot and walk away with £60 profit if it wins ???

If the £100 loses you will pay £40 less on any future PC than if you hadn't lost £100 on that bet.

Therefore it's an even £60 bet. In fact it's fractionally better because commission is 2% and implied commission is 3%.

If you want a even £100 you place a bet of £167.




Provided that you are a consistent PC payer then this is true
Report Gin September 15, 2021 2:45 PM BST
Although, I make it that you would have to bet slightly more than £167 to have the £100 (£169.49).

As mentioned you will be getting slightly better odds than 1/1 because of the implied commission situation. It is more like a 1.0086/1 shot.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 15, 2021 3:40 PM BST
If you want a even £100 you place a bet of £167.

why wen you can have 100/98 with another exchange or 100/100 with a bookmaker..
Report thurnscoe thunder September 15, 2021 3:57 PM BST
I would also hazard a guess that consistent PC payers at 40% plus are on or have tried the personalised commission structure where you pay a set percentage of commission on each bet and you dont get the option of being able to get back the money youve lost before you start paying commission again rendering this £100 to £60 or £167 to £100 argument null and void.
Therefore it still forces 40% payers who turn profits on inrunning off the exchange instead of getting the money in other markets if they wish to bet
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 15, 2021 4:12 PM BST
Therefore it still forces 40% payers who turn profits on inrunning off the exchange instead of getting the money in other markets if they wish to bet

pre race just beggars utter belief.
Report swiftynifty September 15, 2021 4:18 PM BST
It can only be because it is deemed too difficult to distinguish pre-race and in-play bets by off-time plus in-play offsets etc etc. But a straight pre-race bet left untraded should surely be possible.
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