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howard
03 Jul 21 12:22
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Date Joined: 09 Mar 03
| Topic/replies: 10,431 | Blogger: howard's blog
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Report Wesdag July 3, 2021 4:58 PM BST
no probs - just that I feel strongly about the issue

blokes don't become women based on how they "feel"
Report Fashion Fever July 3, 2021 5:03 PM BST
any bookies paying on both ?
Report 11kv July 3, 2021 5:12 PM BST
Gender fluid ?
Report Wesdag July 3, 2021 5:15 PM BST
^ all bs

doesn't change your dna
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 5:21 PM BST
all i can hear from the RTV crew is...

'what a fantastic days racing'...

dear god.

nowt to see here...

move on please.
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 5:30 PM BST
An enquiry was held into the circumstances surrounding the correction of the placings of HURRICANE IVOR (IRE) and PHOENIX STAR (IRE) in Race 1. The Judge, the Photo Finish Operator and a Steward were interviewed. Having heard their evidence, it was established that a distortion of the mirror, that was not identified until after the Provisional Result had been called, led to an inaccurate mirror image on the Photo Finish. As a result, the Judge could not use the mirror image when reviewing the Photo Finish, so with insufficient evidence from the Field Image to accurately split HURRICANE IVOR (IRE) and PHOENIX STAR (IRE), a dead-heat for first was called. The Stewards further enquired in order to ascertain the possible reasons for the Photo Finish mirror being distorted. A report was forwarded to the Head Office of the British Horseracing Authority for further consideration.
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 5:33 PM BST
the Photo Finish Operator...

---------------------------

i didn't know there was such a person...

any time i've seen it an image comes up on the pc which the judge looks at to call the result...

interesting.
Report swiftynifty July 3, 2021 5:39 PM BST
HH, he sticks a mirror on the far post and the camera on the near one. Simple, or not as it turns out.
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 5:41 PM BST
crikey swifty...

i didn't know it was a specialised job ffs...

they must do more than that tho...?

do they see the 'image' before everyone else i wonder...?

or at the same time as the judge...?
Report swiftynifty July 3, 2021 5:45 PM BST
I beleive the computerised image goes live to the judge's PC, no doubt it goes somewhere else too!
Report swiftynifty July 3, 2021 5:45 PM BST
i before e except after c etc, long day.
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 5:46 PM BST
100m/swimming etc all done electronically but in a billion pound industry left to somebody foooking about with rulers and magnifying glasses
Report Hushwing. July 3, 2021 5:46 PM BST
so that means now 2 of them got the decision wrong in the first place.

however they spin this they can't ignore the fact the photo was called wrong in the first place!
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 5:54 PM BST
I beleive the computerised image goes live to the judge's PC, no doubt it goes somewhere else too!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well if you remember Fran Berry saying that the lads in the truck knew what had won a race at Dundalk one night before the result was called by the judge swifty...

so it must go there too.
Report swiftynifty July 3, 2021 5:56 PM BST
HH, probably all Racetech operations, the course were quick to pass the buck. Far from explains the judge's original miscall tho.
Report Hushwing. July 3, 2021 5:58 PM BST
Laughthe lads in the truck will be fuming , they'll have laid Phoenix waiting for that initial result
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 5:59 PM BST
now now Hushwing...
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 6:00 PM BST
Far from explains the judge's original miscall tho.

------------------------------------------------------

correct...

that part seems to have been forgotten about which is surprising imv.
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:01 PM BST
they have not forgotten it they are avoiding it
Report swiftynifty July 3, 2021 6:01 PM BST
Hushwing, they are currently escorting judge Jane Green to the top of their cherry picker.
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 6:07 PM BST
original result was judge error even using the mirror which wasnt a true image,theyve either mixed horses up or mixed  numbers up,once you take mirror image out of play ,you cant split.distinquish noses on field photo
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 3, 2021 6:13 PM BST
what alluded them that the mirror wasnt a true image?
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 6:16 PM BST
are you saying that the 'mirror' issue is an excuse they have come up with to try and cover up the c0ck up of the judge calling the wrong winner in the first place mr.Hunt...?

is this a Watergate scenario...?
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 3, 2021 6:21 PM BST
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 6:24 PM BST
there'll be no whitewash....in the Whitehouse.
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 6:25 PM BST
WHEN they,d realised she,d called the wrong result at the subsequent inquiry and looking at 3rd and 4th photo together with 1st and 2nd photo ,they realised it was a wrong image
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:29 PM BST
do you think all horse are going to be fitted with a coloured nose end so they can distinguish?
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 6:30 PM BST
could all be chipped and results recorded electronically
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:32 PM BST
might be easier just to invest in 21st century tech and then do away with the old boys brigade
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 6:34 PM BST
they have tech but the tech which would have showed which horses nose was on line wasnt working correctly
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:34 PM BST
old tech
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:35 PM BST
faulty tech, fallible tech, used by idiots
Report saxon farm July 3, 2021 6:44 PM BST
1st time poster 03 Jul 21 17:34 Joined: 25 Dec 05 | Topic/replies: 47,913 | Blogger: 1st time poster's blog
they have tech but the tech which would have showed which horses nose was on line wasnt working correctly

100% correct.
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 6:44 PM BST
https://twitter.com/RacingTV/status/1411301327649521666
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 6:46 PM BST
look at the tail of HI in both pictures...pretty much identical

in my view the mirror was working fine, and the lines on the photo are correct, and that the result was incorrectly called off them
and to save face they've cooked up some story about the mirror being dodgy, not our fault guv
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 6:46 PM BST
its so BHA
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:47 PM BST
doesn't matter if the idiot interpreting any pic is not looking correctly, new tech alerts to the right call taking away the need for a moron to decide, that's why it's not correct
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 6:48 PM BST
THE IMAGE FOR 3RD AND 4TH PHOTO AND ALL HORSES CROSSING LINE ,PROVES YOUR TALKING SHPITE I,M AFRAID
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:49 PM BST
he's not talking shoite he's got a valid point
Report elise July 3, 2021 6:54 PM BST
we have an administrating body setting the rules, laying out the policy/procedures appointing the people and then monitoring and managing the whole circus themselves, so who's asking the questions of the bha when they fck up? oh yeah, it's the bha .... amazing
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 6:56 PM BST
AC-12 should be brought in imv...
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 7:03 PM BST
look at the tails, they are PERFECTLY aligned in the top & bottom image, so anybody claiming a wonky mirror is talking absolute fkin bullshit
Report duffy July 3, 2021 7:03 PM BST
HappyHibby 03 Jul 21 16:30 
An enquiry was held into the circumstances surrounding the correction of the placings of HURRICANE IVOR (IRE) and PHOENIX STAR (IRE) in Race 1. The Judge, the Photo Finish Operator and a Steward were interviewed. Having heard their evidence, it was established that a distortion of the mirror, that was not identified until after the Provisional Result had been called, led to an inaccurate mirror image on the Photo Finish. As a result, the Judge could not use the mirror image when reviewing the Photo Finish, so with insufficient evidence from the Field Image to accurately split HURRICANE IVOR (IRE) and PHOENIX STAR (IRE), a dead-heat for first was called. The Stewards further enquired in order to ascertain the possible reasons for the Photo Finish mirror being distorted. A report was forwarded to the Head Office of the British Horseracing Authority for further consideration.


This does not explain why Phoenix Star was given the race to begin with.

They are trying to create a narrative where the mirror image distortion was to blame for the whole issue but it is not, the original fook up is separate and needs looking at itself.
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 7:03 PM BST
1st time poster not far behind the BHA it seems
Report 11kv July 3, 2021 7:04 PM BST
The powers that run the show have ballsed it up and are blaming a mirror ffs
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 7:04 PM BST
PS given the race initially because the judge has mingled the heads
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 7:04 PM BST
AGAIN
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 7:04 PM BST
never thought i'd say this but...

i agree with you duffy.
Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 7:04 PM BST

Jul 3, 2021 -- 1:04PM, 11kv wrote:


The powers that run the show have ballsed it up and are blaming a mirror ffs


correct

Report wondersobright July 3, 2021 7:05 PM BST
exactly duffy
Report elise July 3, 2021 7:15 PM BST
to be accurate, they are blaming a mirror and a bloke with a protractor, but the old ways are the best ....
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 7:21 PM BST
these guys will sort this out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX9joQG60pE&list=PLmUXEpwrhZ7toVDeB9PiQ0OYf8Pe5GF1q&index=4
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 7:28 PM BST
the mistakes made here were,
1, mistake by judge which under new back up system shouldnt have been released till stewards had backed it up

2,stewards/judges releasing photo,s before the weigh in,

3,RUK ,on their original slow mo freezing pic past the line,they later reversed it to showing it on the line which looked like DH to naked eye
but by then everyone had made their mind up,betfair had reacted to it and the wrong mirror image just confirmed so,mething everyone had already decided,
without ruk showing image past line,without image of mirror image,no one would have been back 10,s on,you were basically backing 10,s on ,on indentifying a horse nose those with blown up pics.hd pixels etc couldnt indentify
Report elise July 3, 2021 7:29 PM BST
you missed the giggest mistake, that photo equipment is supposed to be calibrated and checked prior to racing
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 7:32 PM BST
correct
Report elise July 3, 2021 7:34 PM BST
and if you cast your mind back to chelt which from memory put down to fading light not misaligned mirror, the question was asked why are we using a mirror in this day and age when a 2nd camera or overhead set up would remove all doubt
Report cool_hand_luke July 3, 2021 7:37 PM BST
What if they didn't get it wrong.....somehow a lot of people have made a massive profit from all this.
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 7:37 PM BST
camera,s,slow mo,s etc are for the punters,the actual result like swimming,athlectics etc should be done on electronic times ,chips,wifi etc,etc
Report elise July 3, 2021 7:39 PM BST
well luke i think that's what a few above are saying
Report elise July 3, 2021 7:42 PM BST
and 1tp, u say re punters, when the photo was shown on tv the price went to 1.03/1.04 and the other dropped out to 50s so if it's for punters i'd imagine it still might need to be correct if this sport is to have any integrity
Report kjansch July 3, 2021 7:45 PM BST
is the GPs chip in the saddle?

are all published photos the 'mirrored image' and therefore all wrong either side?
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 7:46 PM BST
like i say ruk/atr/itv going in to area,s they shouldnt go in to,deciding for viewing figures where the line is,ruk showed to stills one past the line which showed inside in front and another that looked like a dead heat ,then backed their 1st still u pby showing the mirror imager,image
Report 1st time poster July 3, 2021 7:47 PM BST
shouty man even told the racing/betting world a 5lb claimer had been jocked off for a top jockey,when he hadnt
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 7:47 PM BST
what was the incident we had a couple of weeks ago...?

the betting in the stewards looked all wrong and nearly everyone on here said so...

and the one who looked way too short in the betting was awarded the winner.
Report elise July 3, 2021 7:48 PM BST
and so why are they not one and the same, why is the tech so fecking antiquated that we can't have instant and accurate shared information, the simple version is money but the bigger issue is the bha are running the show
Report HappyHibby July 3, 2021 7:59 PM BST
Dickens at Nottingham...

nowt to do with this but it just popped in to my brain.
Report onlooker July 3, 2021 9:45 PM BST
1st time poster 03 Jul 21 18:37 

camera,s,slow mo,s etc are for the punters,the actual result like swimming,athlectics etc should be done on electronic times ,chips,wifi etc,etc
-----------------

Impossible - Surely.

You would have to make sure that EVERY Chip was fitted in EXACTLY the SAME Place in EVERY Horse's Noses - with Results currently being decided in Pixels.

You could NOT just put them in the Saddle cloth - or Bridle even - as every Horse is a DIFFERENT LENGTH (If measured in PIXELS)  ... Small Horses - Long Horses - Tall Horses - Compact Horses - Long Necks etc,etc
Report swiftynifty July 3, 2021 9:56 PM BST
chips in the nose, or on the shoulder of some of the bluebloods.
Report onlooker July 3, 2021 10:09 PM BST
Does NOT matter - swifty ...

Even if they spent a week to calibrate the EXACT SAME spot in EVERY Horse's nose  - as..

One horse breathing in - the other breathing out  = Different NOSTRIL FLARE than 'at rest' (when Chips inserted) - which simply CANNOT compensate for such scenarios  ... UNAVOIDABLE .... Then the BHA DEMAND SINGLE PIXEL Decisions

NOT possible
Report swiftynifty July 3, 2021 10:12 PM BST
a correctly positioned camera works perfectly.......in other jurisdictions.
Report hulk23 July 4, 2021 12:34 AM BST
the chances of the photo equipment not having been correctly calibrated and checked prior to racing are factored into the price you take.

rico ...... unlucky kid Happy
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 4, 2021 12:41 AM BST
On a serious note racing is that farcical how anyone commit to 1.01s or the inverse, seems to be more than 1 in 100 races an incident and that’s with no 1.01s beat
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 4, 2021 12:41 AM BST
Can
Report second again July 4, 2021 7:37 AM BST
For those saying results should be done by time,in the Melbourne cup a few years ago a Luca Cumani horse did the fastest time but was placed 2nd in the photo.
Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 9:20 AM BST

Jul 3, 2021 -- 12:21PM, greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy wrote:


sorry but that is an embarrassing effort.  You have put your white line through the near horse's nostril.  In the photo, no part of the far side's nose is visible.

Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 9:42 AM BST
wondersobright • July 3, 2021 6:46 PM BST
look at the tail of HI in both pictures...pretty much identical


obv it's "pretty much", but they aren't identical.  The mirror is probably just a miniscule pointed to the right, so showing the horses slightly before the line and skewing the "finishing line" in favour of the far horse.
Report 11kv July 4, 2021 9:48 AM BST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHWrmIzgB5A
Report roggrain July 4, 2021 9:53 AM BST
Hold a finger up in front of a mirror and move your head to the side and you will see that the

alignment between your finger and the mirror image alters. Clearly (excuse the pun), the mirror was

not in alignment, i.e. it wasn't set at exact right angles to the camera. The judge should be fired

for not noticing the difference between the two images. Whoever set the mirror/camera up needs

re-training.

There are a number of race courses which, if you look closely up at the camera location, are actually

behind and not at right angles to the finish line, usually because the Grandstands at those courses

end just before the line. Newcastle, York, Doncaster and 5f at Sandown , I'm convinced ,have this

problem.
Report onlooker July 4, 2021 3:45 PM BST
roggrain - That is incorrect - and merely talking Television Viewing Bias

You post ... "the camera location, are actually behind and not at right angles to the finish line"
-------------------

That is a NON- valid Statement - a misconception  - As ...

The ACTUAL Finishing LINE is .... From wherever the CAMERA is POSITIONED to the Racecourse determined point of Finish on the Far Rail.

Whatever 'Line'  is Mown across the Course - or whatever else -  is merely an INDICATOR for Racegoers and Television [Viewers of the Finish ... BUT - is NOT an ABSOLUTE.

Similarly - The Nearside Winning Post is NEVER situated exactly 'on the Line'... as it would, if so positioned,  then interfere/block the view of the Camera, located in the Stands.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 4, 2021 3:49 PM BST
is she had called the correct number the mirror invention would still be unnoticed.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 4, 2021 3:53 PM BST
it matters not how you percieve it..the mirror showed hurricane won by an inch..the field image clearly shows hurricanes nostril sticking out an inch further than this side.
Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 4:25 PM BST
^incorrect - there is no nostril sticking out.
Report cheburekito July 4, 2021 4:39 PM BST
lol at all these "experts" giving advice to people who've been watching every single race for the past 10 or 20 years, just shut up please
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 4, 2021 4:48 PM BST
dave curently being employed by billy smart.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 4, 2021 4:51 PM BST


dave..has this side got 2 nostrils on its near side iyo?
Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 4:51 PM BST
well you aren't employed by specsavers, that's certain.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 4, 2021 4:53 PM BST
you have just shown yourself as a clueless clown.
Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 5:04 PM BST
Name call all you like. There is no part of the far side horses nostril showing.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 4, 2021 5:27 PM BST
so this side has 2 nostrils on its near side iyo?
Report Latalomne July 4, 2021 5:27 PM BST
Dave - I was of the same view as you yesterday, then I saw the full image with the mirror image that Wonder shared and I became less convinced.

However, what we absolutely can see from the mirror image is that 1) the near-side horse's right nostril DOES stick out A LONG way beyond its 'top lip', and 2) HI has some white on its nose, which is visible in the mirror image but not the lower portion of the print (which I don't think is conclusive because you could argue the horse's head might be tilted slightly right of straight, thus potentially making it invisible from the left side - looking at other pics of the horse, it really is just a thin strip down the nose). 

I am still coming down on it being the near side horse in front on the lower image, but I wouldn't want to stake my life either way.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 4, 2021 5:29 PM BST
flawed argument unless you believe the near side horse has 2 nostrils on one side.
Report Latalomne July 4, 2021 5:29 PM BST
I explained my view on that yesterday.  I've seen plenty of pics where flared nostrils have that appearance.
Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 5:39 PM BST
look at eg https://media.britishhorseracing.com/images/photofinish/hireswatermark/2021_43362_0_18292.jpg

download it and zoom

or any other photos - the nostrils stick out a fair bit from the upper lip.  Also the top part of the head is almost straight.

In yesterday's photo the far side horse is angled down in comparison to the near side.  So if it was ahead it would be underneath, not above.

The horses' legs are also slightly differently orientated in the mirror image due to the slight difference in time.

@ greenteeth there is no "two nostrils".
Report casemoney July 4, 2021 5:41 PM BST
In that print tip of far side orse touching line
Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 5:44 PM BST
that's from chelmsford today.....
Report casemoney July 4, 2021 5:47 PM BST
Yes the forums great they can post photos from today on yesterdays posts . Not even close has won best part of and inch
Report dave1357 July 4, 2021 5:50 PM BST
sorry, I didn't read your post, would have done.
Report saxon farm July 5, 2021 12:56 AM BST
I was a photo finish operator over 30 years ago.
The method to line the mirror up to the camera was used by 2 narrow tall poles to be in precise line to the winning post .
Each being approx 1/3 and 2/3 the width of the course.
After positioning the mirror on the winning line, lining it up precisely was an intricate but simple process.
The precise position being by communication from the senior operator high above  to the apprentice. This was achieved by a spanner adjusting screws by all angles. After a few adjustments the senior guy gives the ok.
This all takes place within 3 hours of racing.


The winning line is THE FRONT EDGE of the winning post which lines up with the centre of the mirror.

All this is the responsibility of RACETECH.
Report elise July 5, 2021 11:46 AM BST
and it's still old tech
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy July 5, 2021 1:19 PM BST
The winning line is THE FRONT EDGE of the winning post which lines up with the centre of the mirror.

surely the winning post is only a guide..the actual line is the end of the mirror when the horses no longer have a reflection?
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