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01 Jul 21 11:35
Date Joined: 05 Oct 11
| Topic/replies: 13,580 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog

Anyone know the link to the survey?
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Report elise July 1, 2021 11:45 AM BST
on the new consultation this is the only thing i've seem, the old stuff from 10 years ago is still floating about ...
Report elise July 1, 2021 11:45 AM BST
whip-in-british-horseracing/consultation/intro/  the latter bit sorry i can no long post full links
Report acey deucy July 1, 2021 11:49 AM BST
I cant believe they are still getting away with using the whip i would ban it Tomorrow.....Fair enough carry it for correction purposes but no way should it be uses behind the saddle.....And i worked in Racing for 30 Years.
Report acey deucy July 1, 2021 11:51 AM BST
Aye used even.
Report elise July 1, 2021 11:53 AM BST
plenty would say the opposite from within the sport but i do not think the decision will have much to do with their view, more the public perception
Report acey deucy July 1, 2021 11:57 AM BST
It's all about public perception we know it's coming so just lets get it done.
Report acey deucy July 1, 2021 11:58 AM BST
I dont think we will lose a thing the sport will be just as exciting imo.
Report differentdrum July 1, 2021 1:22 PM BST

Just sent mine in.
Report Whippin Piccadilly July 1, 2021 1:45 PM BST
A complete waste of time and money. Racing has much bigger problems, the levels of prize money and the exodus of talented horses being sold abroad should be the first issues to be addressed and it should be done quickly.
Report thesportinglife July 1, 2021 2:09 PM BST
If they do away with the whip because the general public think its cruel even though these same people will have no interest in racing whether we keep the whip or not, then imagine how many lazy horses will be sold off, retired etc,and trainers and stable staff will soon be out of work because believe it or not most horses need encouragement to run faster,it`s as simple as that.
Report differentdrum July 1, 2021 2:22 PM BST
You would almost think WP was an owner or a trainer. I am sure they can fight their own corners.

Funny, the first sentence I put in was the nonsense about 'lazy' horses.

The bottom line actually is that if you carry a whip for steering purposes only then the sport still goes on, and the perception/or reality of cruelty is taken away. You don't have any of this counting or disqualification nonsense which are basically red herring just to retain the whip.
Report Whippin Piccadilly July 1, 2021 2:30 PM BST
Why do I need to be an owner to have say about the impact/dilution of the quality of UK horse racing, by the selling of talented horses abroad?
Report Dr Crippen July 1, 2021 2:38 PM BST
They ride so short these days that the only way to encourage the horse properly is with the whip.
Report barstool July 1, 2021 2:53 PM BST
Part of the problem is Jockeys who just use the stick from 2f out to get the horse to quicken. You can hear them all if you take a walk down to the rail there. I like the way Doyle rides, pushing them from 3f out and gradually raising the tempo, with the stick only used in last 220 yards to try to maintain it. Mayme better training of young rides is needed.
Report kevinglass July 2, 2021 12:31 PM BST
Presumably, if the whip were taken away, then going forward thoroughbred breeding would slant to horses who win without the requirement of the whip.

So if you agree, or disagree, long term it'll be no less competitive, and we'd have no need for the whip for encouragement.

It would certainly be easier on the eye without flailing arms in the last couple of furlongs, for me anyway.
Report acey deucy July 2, 2021 12:38 PM BST
I mean the trouble usually starts when a Jockey picks up his whip imo.....Ban it asap.
Report onlooker July 2, 2021 2:37 PM BST
Absolutely correct - barstool

The current crop of Cowboys - start riding their horse far too vigorously from too far out

Watch racing from the glory years of the late 1970s and whole 1980s - and you never saw this.

Jockeys were far more PATIENT and consequently somewhat Sympathetic to the horse - Before asking for an Effort - 'from the Distance' - Just over a Furlong out.

AUSTRALIA still race like that - Because their Whip Rules dictate as such ...

Use of the Whip in the early and Main stages of a race is severely Restricted - practically outlawed - But inside the Final Furlong Fully allowed.

I feel that is the answer for the UK - and will produce far more aesthetically acceptable rides - and JOCKEYSHIP/Horsemanship would become even more PARAMOUNT -

- instead of them all, currently,  doing an impersonation of an American Cowboy film, from by far too far from home. Sad
Report differentdrum July 4, 2021 12:53 PM BST
We will see but strongly suspect this is another window dressing exercise by the BHA. Pretending they have done something and then doing very little, or indeed nothing.

Just look at the make up of the Steering Committee. Where are the people who are going to argue against the whip? It's an obvious stitch up to appease those in the bubble. You may as well have put whip lovers like Chapman and Boycie in there.

Where are the likes of Francome? There is no balance.
Report 1st time poster July 4, 2021 12:56 PM BST
luke morris
i rest my case me lord
Report swiftynifty July 4, 2021 1:33 PM BST
After all the hoo-ha surrounding the whip ban at Monmouth Park, some of the revolting jockeys have admitted the ban has meant jockeys have needed to be fitter and stronger with more use of the arms. The better jockeys still come to the fore. There has been far less interference in races, less claims of foul, horses have generally kept straighter lines in their races. Jockeys have taken fewer risks in manufacturing gaps, so race positioning has becoming more important than ever. Although available to be carried for the correction many jockeys have still chosen to ride without the crop.

Consider the example of some jockeys in the UK. I was at Newton Abbot recently and certain jockeys are smoking pre- and post-race and are gasping more coming back in than their mounts. They rely on the whip to eke out more from their horses in the finish.
Dump the ****, dump the whip and let the best and fittest jockeys ride the winners.
Report differentdrum July 4, 2021 7:41 PM BST
In this day and age athletes openly smoking, it's a joke isn't it? Presumably, they will expect some nice healthy food to balance the equation.

It also seems crazy that we are now lagging behind supposedly 'whip happy' USA.

In my reply I suggested the very least they should do is have a month's trial, not the odd race here and there. Then judge the reaction. Yes, there will be those suggesting jockeys are not trying, but they will probably be the same people who say that now.

Unfortunately, as I said above, I don't think the BHA are at all serious about change. That committee certainly won't be. That's why the 'industry' in the main hasn't criticised this idea. They know the outcome.
Report cloone river July 4, 2021 10:19 PM BST
The so call whip they use today is alot different then the one of 15 to 20 years ago.It is a air cushion whip that would do as much damage to a horse as a bag of feathers.Maybe if people were able to pick one up and get a feel of it they would understand.
Report 1st time poster July 5, 2021 5:42 AM BST
is that why luke morris does his rodeo bucking and above the shoulder beatings to try and get a response ,
ie the softer the whip the more force/speed they try to get with it to get a response
Report Stark July 5, 2021 6:47 AM BST
Having seen and held a modern "whip", I can only describe the business end as bubble wrap coated in leather. It's all noise and no sting. A lot of fuss about nothing. Those who are calling for a total ban have obviously never done any riding.
Report differentdrum July 5, 2021 10:34 AM BST
You shouldn't need to have ridden to know it is fundamentally wrong to hit animals for entertainment purposes. Ludicrous that the practice has survived this long. In that respect racing is very fortunate that most people only take any notice/interest on one day a year, and look what an influence that has had on the Grand National.
Report elise July 5, 2021 12:40 PM BST
but you bet on it every day, so ....
Report differentdrum July 5, 2021 12:58 PM BST
I am struggling to see the connection. If an individual stops betting (and for the record most days I don't bet) how does that bring the end of the whip any closer?
Report elise July 5, 2021 1:07 PM BST
it infers you are a hypocrite re watching and betting on the sport whilst condoning the use of a whi
Report elise July 5, 2021 1:13 PM BST
if people refuse to bet on this sport because it's seen as barbaric in the 21st century, (as is happening) then the bha will make fences smaller, reduce race distance, perhaps even ban jump racing,  remove the whip etc, until the only thing left is to remove the use of the animal entirely, we've started down this route in many walks of life so maybe those asking for stuff need to think about where it takes the sport short and long term, as above the majority of people have little understanding of horsemanship or the whip, they just blindly comment
Report Mick Sturbs July 5, 2021 1:34 PM BST
Can't see any reason not to ban the whip.To non racing people it doesn't look good.
Why not have a proper trial of racing without the whip to see if it does make any difference
Report elise July 5, 2021 1:37 PM BST
it doesn't look good mick, but then they know very little about it, it's an opinion based on a lack of real understanding, i have no doubt a trial will happen at some poinht
Report KeMoH July 5, 2021 5:21 PM BST
as previously mentioned, racing has bigger issues to address. it is farcical how racing is now pandering to the woke brigade about the use of the whip; they are just trying to appease the left wing snowflakes. the whip rules have been diluted too much already. i couldn't give a carp about what the "public perception" is... the people at the top of our game should be preserving and defending our sport. where the whip is concerned, this is just the tip of the iceburg for the left wing loons. lets be honest with ourselves, a lot of the public want racing banned altogether. why are we bending over backwards just to accommodate those who have nothing to do with the sport. the whole thing is a joke
Report cloone river July 7, 2021 8:37 PM BST
Report 1st time poster July 8, 2021 5:26 AM BST
talk of banning the whip 29 years before the word woke was even dreamt off or invented,but their again as 40% of uk public dont even no what the word woke means , but there again we could be having our 1st discussion about the whip today and 40% of people still wouldnt no what woke meant
Report 1st time poster July 8, 2021 5:29 AM BST
imagine been that WOKE that you wouldnt even whip your dog,cat,hamster,etc,and there,s some real wokies out there who think whipping them to bet on and make them go faster is so last century ,
Report 1st time poster July 8, 2021 5:31 AM BST
morris on a daily basis and those 2 amateurs at perth last month are at fault not a word 40% of people dont no the meaning of
Report 1st time poster July 8, 2021 5:32 AM BST
2 years this week since big mac died oh how he,d be chortling about the right wing lemmings calling him WOKE, LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report differentdrum July 8, 2021 10:29 AM BST
Effectively 'woke' is just a new tool to throw at people you disagree with. Usually with very little to back it up. This thread is no exception.

It wouldn't take much to get the whip banned. Prime time slot just film the ends of races down on the rail. The noise in itself would be enough, but you could throw in a few videos of Luke Morris as the icing on the cake. Racing is very fortunate that nobody has attempted to make such a film.

Could you imagine the dinosaurs trying to defend hitting an animal for entertainment outside of the bubble. They would have absolutely no chance and they know it.

To make any progress the BHA needs to be led by someone who has every intention of banning it, rather than carrying out endless window dressing. I would agree it is a waste of money if that is all they are doing.
Report Carveth July 12, 2021 1:55 PM BST
Matt Chapman made a comment about the whip consultation on The Opening Show 3rd July (42 minutes 20 seconds into the programme, available on the ITV hub).

He said “The numbers thing has always been insanity, it’s clearly madness that a jockey can use the whip seven times, the horse is loving it, encouraging, going faster, straining every sinew and then you have to stop encouraging because you’ve hit a number, that’s absolutely crackers”.

So, what do horses who don’t “love it” think? Taking a neutral stance, I’d be highly surprised if we currently know precisely what a horse feels when struck by the current whip used in British horseracing. Hopefully in the future it will be possible using biometric data to conclude one way or the other although I suspect many would be of the view that animals would rather not be hit if they had the choice.

There is a whole chapter on Equine Welfare in Equine Behavioural Medicine (2019) written by Bonnie Weaver (College of Veterinary Medicine, Texas A&M university). The UK Farm Animal Welfare Council created 5 Freedoms in 1992 as guidelines for the production of farm animals. The three that apply to this issue are freedom from 1) discomfort 2) pain, injury & disease and 3) fear & distress.
Report KeMoH July 12, 2021 3:07 PM BST
the biggest hurdle the pro-whip lobby have to overcome is the ignorance of those who oppose it. those outside of the sport or those who have very little knowledge of it, generally looks at the whip (issue) at face value... which of course doesn't portray the full picture. whether 'woke' and 'anti-whip' go hand in hand is a topic for another day but one thing is certain... the banning of the whip is the start of a slippery slope for racing enthusiasts whether you agree with its use or not. mark my words, you heard it here first.
Report KeMoH July 12, 2021 3:12 PM BST
the definition of ignorance is never more evident than with those who say "it's wrong to hit animals for entertainment/profit". im sure 99% of the population would agree with you if you take that comment, as previously mentioned, at face value. but in the context of horse racing it is ignorant to apply that sentiment as its taken out of call context.
Report differentdrum July 12, 2021 3:37 PM BST
Hugely arrogant - but typical - to accuse those you disagree with as being ignorant. Besides doing that you don't seem to have any real argument besides trying to frighten people with a totally unsubstantiated slippery slope claim. Could it actually be that you are the ignorant one?

In any context hitting animals for entertainment is wrong. It always has been, and always will be. Love to see you standing up outside the bubble and try to explain why 99% are wrong, and you are right.

As I have already said you needn't worry because the BHA are intent on continuing to pander to people like you.
Report Mick Sturbs July 12, 2021 3:42 PM BST
If the whip doesn't hurt why do they say things like"don't hit the 2 yo" as we want it to have a nice experience on its first outing.
Report KeMoH July 12, 2021 3:47 PM BST

Jul 12, 2021 -- 9:37AM, differentdrum wrote:

Hugely arrogant - but typical - to accuse those you disagree with as being ignorant. Besides doing that you don't seem to have any real argument besides trying to frighten people with a totally unsubstantiated slippery slope claim. Could it actually be that you are the ignorant one?In any context hitting animals for entertainment is wrong. It always has been, and always will be. Love to see you standing up outside the bubble and try to explain why 99% are wrong, and you are right.As I have already said you needn't worry because the BHA are intent on continuing to pander to people like you.

oh dear, not another from the woke brigade with little to zero industry knowledge. You arm chair pundits make me laugh!

Report KeMoH July 12, 2021 3:53 PM BST
What I detest is those who imply, or merely suggest, that those within the racing industry are somewhat complicit in animal cruelty because they support the use of the whip. this bigoted view couldnt be further from the truth...
Report swiftynifty July 12, 2021 3:58 PM BST
Kemph, why do you think the whip is used?
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