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13 Jun 21 09:25
Date Joined: 16 Dec 18
| Topic/replies: 261 | Blogger: MythWA's blog
Being priced out of the market. Letter in RP.
Attended Yarmouth on Thurs.
First time for a long time.
Knowing that trying to get anything above BF was unlikely. I placed 2 of my bets on the exchange 1 winner at 7 books 5/1. My other 'winner' with a shop at 4/1 which was disqualified but I got paid out with the double result concession. The letter predicts what may happen as things stand.
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Report SlippyBlue June 13, 2021 9:59 AM BST
I was at Sandown on Friday, 10 books, 7 in main and 3 on the rails.
First race and the hotpot Mojomaker. I missed the odds against on here but got 2.0.At the time it was 4/5 in a couple of places and generally 8/11.That was of course the trend for every single horse in every race and the bigger the price the more obscene the variance. From what I saw trade  was very light indeed, only day trip punters with tenners and scores. I don't know about 10 layers, 3 or 4 would have been enough.
Oh and as an aside, for the first race I sat in the stand outside the 1875 lounge where we had reserved a table.Some bloke approached me and said I couldn't sit there as it was reserved for badge holders, there were about 10 people around me spaced out in the seating area which could cater for around 150 or thereabouts.I said my badge is on the table and that I'd forgotten to put it on and he insisted that I had to move! Come racingLaugh
Report dave d June 14, 2021 12:59 PM BST
hexham saturday four horse race plenty 4/7 and 8/13 available to good money ..industry price 1/2 last race jolly 3/1 on most boards touched 100/30  industry sp 11/4 so saving off course firms plenty .....meeting before that 9/4 freely available to money on track ..sp 7/4 cuts both ways SillyShocked
Report parispike June 14, 2021 1:13 PM BST
Of course there are isolated examples such as that dave d quotes. However any experienced racegoer will confirm that overwhelmingly the norm is e.g. 4.4 on here 3/1 universally the on course offer.

I'm not blaming the on course books - they have expenses to contend with plus they will take a decent sized bet. The writer of the letter in the Post is merely observing that the whole dynamic is changing. Any price sensitive punter isn't going to take 3/1 when he/she knows that 4.4 is available on here - especially if, as with some commission agents, the bet is simply arbed on here.

I don't know the solution but slowly the on course market is dying....
Report dave d June 14, 2021 1:33 PM BST
agree paris mate however we have found up here in the north there are still people who love having a day out at the races paying in cash and still punters who like to have a lump on and getting paid in cash feeling the lettuce in their pocket afterwards ..we are a dying breed of course providing a service to customers like any other business..
Report ItsMeSwaddle June 14, 2021 2:14 PM BST
Done this argument to death, most on course books think its personal when you give an opinion.

I've done 20 meetings since the return and couldnt of put it better myself "However any experienced racegoer will confirm that overwhelmingly the norm is e.g. 4.4 on here 3/1 universally the on course offer." ALL NORTH AND MIDLANDS GENERALLY REALLY POOR PRICING.

Providing a service to clueless daytrippers is the most pleasant way you could put it, the ring is dead.
Report ronnie rails June 14, 2021 2:24 PM BST
Had a bet with an oncourse bookmaker on Friday at 10/30 noticed his red light was flashing on the computer paid me out with a smile could not complain at all.

hope you are all well


Report dominuet June 14, 2021 2:31 PM BST
£60 to get in at chester. £42 at york. nothing really said about this though. as for £2.40 for a can of coke at york....
Report ItsMeSwaddle June 14, 2021 2:37 PM BST
Was £3.20 for a small black coffee, at least freshly brewed however.
Report SlippyBlue June 14, 2021 2:44 PM BST
Swaddle, I had a burger at Sandown, 8 quid and it was totally rank!
Report parispike June 14, 2021 2:57 PM BST
dave d - yes what you cite is probably the future for the majority of the time (i.e. non festivals). Which is a bit depressing really.

I tend to use the books when I want an each way bet (no not a filthy one!) at mid ranged prices where I can get fractions and the full ew terms.
Report ItsMeSwaddle June 14, 2021 2:59 PM BST
Slippy I was fed up with burgers by about meeting 6, Carlisle served up the worst, rank bread and boiled burger, 6 odd quid, you have to laugh
Report know all June 14, 2021 11:57 PM BST
cartmel 7.50 fish 3 chips, no que at all
Report know all June 15, 2021 12:05 AM BST
the punters have also seen the cats out of the bag with the big price 100/1 200/1 winners cant see the books risking those prices so get ready for some bad press when a 100/1 returned was only 50/1 on course its not going to go down well, those books left will do well with the reduced numbers
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 15, 2021 12:17 AM BST
Spare a thought for tote too!

Taking the old man to Newcastle
Thurs before plate.

He doesn't do betfair, loves betting
with books, and forecasts with tote.

Won't make any bookie rich, hey ho.

£25 for a day out ain't bad.

Get a burger in McDonald's before
we go in, pint in border minstral
if it's open!
Report GAZO June 15, 2021 8:30 AM BST
the prices they are starting to charge to get in it wont be long before the groups start working out they would be better watching from the pub down the road,most watch on tv anyway
Report chatto June 15, 2021 12:59 PM BST
There are 2 issues here.First is the on course bookmaker v exchanges.Obviously the on course cannot compete with the exchanges since he has substantial expenses to meet and on top of this he pays taxes on his profits.These expenses are becoming unsustainable and will ultimately destroy the ring. For those who never go racing this is irrelevant but for racegoers

There are two issues here.The first is the on course bookmaker v the exchanges.Obviously the on course bookmakers cannot compete because of his expenses whereas the exchange layers have no expenses or taxes to pay.Would you believe it that the latest expense is the obscene payment of £30 per day to pay for ring managers to put the ducks in a row.The ultimate outcome of this unfair competition will lead to the demise of on course bookmakers which will destroy our horseracing culture.
The second issue is the on course bookmaker v off course bookmaker.At the moment and possibly the forseable future the sp returns are determined by the off course bookmakers.Now this has led to previously unknown prices but how many punters bet on these outsiders?On the other hand the sp returns on the fancied horses appear to have been compressed.Again what percentage of bets are placed on these horses?Thus many punters on this forum are blinded by the increase in prices of ousiders but appear to be unaware of the last minute compression of the prices of fancied horses.It seems to be the case of the poacher being employed to be the gamekeeper.
Report The Knight June 15, 2021 1:34 PM BST
Itsmeswaddle...have to agree. I've done 18 meetings since resumption and the ring looks worse than ever now.

Last night at Notts one bookie packed up after 4 races. At Donny on Sunday there looked to be too many books given the minute size of the crowd.

It is very sad to see but things do move on and certain trades and professions become redundant.

The expenses that the books pay to be on track is plain silly and shows just how greedy racecourses can be. I cannot see how an on course bookmaker faced with the exchanges and the expenses can make it pay, other than offering beneath the odds to the 'day-trippers' and then laying back on the exchanges.

But you need plenty of day-trippers and Sunday and last night saw very few of them - indeed, very few of anyone!!

Is there a solution? Probably not unless a bookie comes up with a really radical idea but even then the scope is limited.
Report GAZO June 15, 2021 2:03 PM BST
there is no solution because the only thing they have is betting in cash and even that is gradually being phased out,pretty much anything to do with betting that they can come up with people can just stand there with their phone and get better odds
Report SlippyBlue June 15, 2021 2:49 PM BST
Order Of Australia, returned an industry price of 17/2. B.S.P. 17.5.That says it all really.
Report hulk23 June 15, 2021 2:50 PM BST
punters shouldn't have to bet win-only at each-way odds ...
Report ItsMeSwaddle June 15, 2021 3:21 PM BST
Why should on course punters incur the cost of the on course bookmakers ? LaughLaughLaugh

Try and pass the cost on...oh wait, we have no customers! People voting with their feet, and leaving the clueless daytrippers that would bet £2 each way into a 200% market.

On a serious note ive spoke to a couple of codgers that can just about work the internet on course and 3 or 4 of them are taking bet and get offers from the big firms, bet 25 a day and get a free 5er or whatever they are churning out currently, so your getting the same poor price as the on course firms + a free bet.

On course bookmakers for me need to go one way or the other, make the % even worse than it already is and offer daft gimmicks (dont tell me its competitive pricing, because generally speaking it really isnt, can show you 20 odd race tickets to prove ive been in the ring). If I had a pitch I would try something like betting to 110% to begin with a sign up saying place a bet every race and recieve a free bet on the last race equal to your lowest stake, gradually increasing to nearer 140% and get the racegoers that way.

The plain old 115-125% simply doesnt cut it!!!
Report geoff m June 15, 2021 4:03 PM BST
One of the great attractions of going horse racing in the past was the hustle and bustle of the betting ring. Sadly gone.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 15, 2021 4:08 PM BST
A bit like high street shopping.

The costs make it unprofitable for
many, yet they are needed.

Racecourses, government will have
to find a way or else the race courses
can give free WiFi and the bookies
can do "hook a duck" stalls.
Report chatto June 15, 2021 9:02 PM BST
Would appear that the forumites on this site are comfortable about the off course bookmakers determinating the sp returns.They must also believe in Father Christmas,
Report ItsMeSwaddle June 15, 2021 9:04 PM BST
Doesnt make a difference to me if its terrible or even worse than that?
Report ItsMeSwaddle June 15, 2021 9:05 PM BST
One thing I do know is that folk shouldnt be passed the costs just because the books cant make it pay anymore, get a new profession is the best advice imo, or even better dont you all still make a book? So play your stance on here instead?
Report Celtic warrior June 15, 2021 10:34 PM BST
The bookies prices at Royal Ascot today were simply appalling. Okay no volume but in which case why bother. I think the ripmoff tote offered better value today.
Report know all June 15, 2021 10:56 PM BST
on course should take bitcoin and all crypto done on the phone and instant in any currency amp/flexa leading the way but even paypal now do bitcoin, , untracable untaxable lol ok its not like that but 44% of payments are done by touching your phone on a terminal, cash is a gonner crypto is the future for all youngsters and most pay by using there phone, they will all take it shortly who will be the first ....
Report dave d June 15, 2021 10:58 PM BST
Report workrider June 15, 2021 11:04 PM BST
Having punted for nearly 50 years with bookies on course I have to agree with IMS little or no attraction in betting on course with books.
Double result for starters , why have a bet with them when the course shop is paying double result, surely its time on course bookies did the same , I love the banter or running the line trying for a better price , hardly any books with a different price now . Instead of feeling sorry for themselves they will have to start thinking of ways to bring punters back to betting with them. Blaming expenses is a no no as far as I'm concerned all this has to be factored in , you can't expect punters to take worse prices and just accept this is the way .
I would be saddened if I ever walked onto a track and there was no bookies , but simply saying they are part of our culture and deserve to survive because of that is now a thing of the past, business is business and to attract punters to bet with them bookies need to put their heads together and find new ways before its to late.
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 5, 2021 12:22 AM BST

Jun 15, 2021 -- 9:05PM, ItsMeSwaddle wrote:

One thing I do know is that folk shouldnt be passed the costs just because the books cant make it pay anymore, get a new profession is the best advice imo, or even better dont you all still make a book? So play your stance on here instead?

Blocked by Jane Hazel tonight and called rude for simply the on course books offer very little imo.

These on course bookmakers do not have a god given right to make cash do they?

I don’t care how long they have been off work. I was made redundant due to covid, get a new job stop moaning it’s quite simple.

Report ItsMeSwaddle July 5, 2021 12:25 AM BST
Onlooker has made a better point than any of mine.

You can’t just bet to worse prices on the basis of expenses, dreamland
Report MythWA July 6, 2021 8:32 AM BST
50 years a racegoer betting with the ring.
For several years now my MO when going racing on average 4 bets 2 with exchange 2 with high street. Must say not as enjoyable but serious punters prioritise 'value' sadly that will never be available on-course.
Report unitedbiscuits July 6, 2021 10:23 AM BST
On course bookies are only paying about £30 for a pitch.
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