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Manoleeds
11 Jun 21 09:03
Joined:
Date Joined: 07 Apr 01
| Topic/replies: 967 | Blogger: Manoleeds's blog
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15227887/ladbrokes-cashier-crime-gang-winners/

I imagine winning slips like this are so common that she never thought she would be caught.
Pause Switch to Standard View Betting shop manageress on the fiddle
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Report the dealer June 11, 2021 10:09 AM BST
Typical Sun story, sensationalism before fact.
Report The Management June 11, 2021 10:28 AM BST
£1 million LaughLaughLaugh

Last Sunday I had £25 Each Way on a 10/3 winner in a Ladbrokes shop - went to collect on the Monday morning and they didn't have enough to pay me out!

Gave me the option of coming back later or going to the other shop (about half a mile away). I'd had the exact same bet at the other shop, so I had to go back later!
Went to the other shop for the other bet - same story, except even when I went back there later, I had to wait for the timer on the safe! Laugh
Report SlippyBlue June 11, 2021 10:42 AM BST
What an absolute croc of the highest order.If that really happened then I'm Van der Valk.
Report blunder June 11, 2021 12:46 PM BST
I used to work at Hills ,admittedly some years ago ,but the idea that the same shop kept paying out big sums of money ,in a very short space of time seems highly improbable. No bet in any shop I worked at for over ten years came to over 10k !
Report carrot1960 June 11, 2021 12:46 PM BST
"Paid out over a million " , and yet when i tried to collect £1900 off a football bet they had to wait three days to collect it and that was only after the emptied the FOB'S FOR THREE DAYS
Report MJK June 11, 2021 1:16 PM BST
Remember a local shop manageress getting the sack after being caught on the fiddle. This was the era when your docket had the duplicate attached which you got as your receipt.  She was stamping it for a few quid on 3 numbers on the lotto, but didnt put in any numbers. Instead she waited until the following morning and added them. She got caught by being greedy as she started to do it twice a week instead of the once.
Report longbridge June 11, 2021 1:40 PM BST
A few years ago a group of us were out for a day's racing at Ascot and one of the lads got a £10 combination Trifecta up.

We had to hang around for an hour or two in the bars listening to the brass band play Christmas carols until a middle-aged lady in a tweed skirt-suit turned up, having driven from Tote head office with a hand-written cheque for his winnings.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 June 11, 2021 1:48 PM BST
A few years ago I got a multi up with Laddies for £26k(after-timing I know). Took a week to be paid out with 3 cheques as 10k was the most allowed on one cheque!
Report Brian June 11, 2021 2:42 PM BST
I won a couple of K in a Ladbrokes shop in the 70s and they paid me cash ( mainly 5s and 10s) and I took it away in a Safeway shopping bag. Fortunately my bank was in the same street and I let them count it!
Report FELIX June 11, 2021 3:00 PM BST
My reading of the story is they were betting with debit cards so the winnings were put back on there as clearly there is no way any shop holds this cash. However for any return over a certain amount, surely the image of the slip is checked in head office before payment is authorised. It is a long time since I worked in the industry but I would guess around £5K.
Report Ramruma June 11, 2021 6:23 PM BST
More details from the Metro:-

the ‘criminal gang’ worked together to defraud the company out of illicit winnings over three hours at the Edmonton branch, between 2pm and 5pm, on June 30, 2019.
https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/11/ladbrokes-cashier-in-london-paid-1000000-in-three-hours-to-crime-gang-14754995/
Report impossible123 June 11, 2021 7:32 PM BST
How'd that happen? No query from "traders" or people higher up after 1st hit? I'd have thought a senior company person eg district/area manager would have descended on shop concerned as soon as a biggie materialised.
Report Ramruma June 11, 2021 7:44 PM BST
@impossible123 -- "How'd that happen? No query from "traders" or people higher up after 1st hit?"

All the winning tricasts came in a three hour period on the same day. (See post before yours.)

As to the higher-ups, well, since they're all in the dock, I'd guess head office did take a look but only after they'd been paid out. The Ladbrokes director who decided to save money by not monitoring bets in real time, that might have caught the scam even earlier, probably got a huge bonus.
Report impossible123 June 11, 2021 8:18 PM BST
Surely a payout above a certain amount will need authorisation from higher up prior, no?
Report scaredmoney June 11, 2021 8:36 PM BST
^^ or you can just put 500k onto the wifes card and get to the airport?
Report Ramruma June 11, 2021 8:52 PM BST
Shame the Racing Post did not send anyone down to Wood Green Crown Court. Maybe they will after they read the prosecution case in tomorrow's papers.

As @impossible123 says, it does seem odd that £1 million can be paid out in three hours, on winning tricasts between £5,000 and £100,000, on the authorisation of a betting shop cashier. Either Ladbrokes' controls are seriously lacking or there is someone higher up we've not been told about. My guess is actually that Ladbrokes' controls really are (or were) that lax because direct bank payments rather than cash or cheque are relatively new but we shall see.

The Mail outlines the prosecution case at
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9676133/Ladbrokes-cashier-22-paid-1million-three-hours-crime-gang-court-hears.html
Report Deptford June 11, 2021 9:52 PM BST
She liked a bit of dark winkle then.
Report BARROWBOY June 11, 2021 9:57 PM BST
It’s the type of scam that’s gonna be found out quickly,she should have been on the 6 o’clock ferry.
Report Deplasterer June 11, 2021 10:41 PM BST
I once went into a ladbrokes shop, cost me £100 within 5 strides, 2 old mates doing their bollocks, couldn't let them down. I haven't been back sinceLaugh
Report Rico-Dangleflaps June 11, 2021 11:41 PM BST
cant get a bet to take out 200 but they won a million..biggest pile of sh1t since mart said he trained the sas.
Report xmoneyx June 12, 2021 12:11 AM BST
tricasts / million / 3 hours


water mitty stuff

did she use the grid card ExcitedLaugh
Report casemoney June 12, 2021 1:31 AM BST
Are there any Jobs going at Lads please ,I won't need to rip the slips and apply the Sellotape anymore Grin
Report casemoney June 12, 2021 1:35 AM BST
A similar scam was tried in another shop when I was managing , think the TC came to 5 k They were not paid ,and the Manager left

This new Debit Card  business is a gold mine ,by the sounds of things Laugh How much has been robbed and never even noticed ?

Foook me keep me out of the places Laugh
Report casemoney June 12, 2021 1:39 AM BST
I don't know how the current system works if the slips could not be read How were they settled as winners ? Shirley alarm bells would go off,if manually settled  for such Amounts  ,all shops and head office must be linked ?
Report snowynoon June 12, 2021 10:37 AM BST
Yes ,we all as ex betting shop punters think it sounds impossible ,but the fact is it has gone to court ,one guy has pled guilty ,the cashier/managerhas basically admitted it but claimed she was threatened in adesperate attempt to get off,so,unbelievable as it may seem ,iits odds on that it actually did happen .Very shoddy work from Ladbrokes .It was 2019 ,surely theyve put procedures in place to prevent a repeat by now.
Report JoeMontana June 12, 2021 11:32 AM BST
@casemoney. The manager just translates it  with the winning combination straight after the race. Wouldn't need manually settling as it's in the system as a winner. Very simple to do but obviously going to get caught once it's looked into why that shop paid out so much and all the winning slips are illegible.

Can't really prevent it unless insisting on taking all bets on placepot or Irish lotto style slips read by the till rather than translated by the cashier. Impossible to get away with though.

These Romanians involved are actually a well known fraud gang specialising in ambiguous bets.
Report the dealer June 12, 2021 11:39 AM BST
The money wouldn't have hit their accounts for 24/48 hours, so although they all pleaded guilty and the transactions had taken place, there was little or no chance of them actually getting their hands on any of the money.
Report scaredmoney June 12, 2021 12:01 PM BST

Jun 12, 2021 -- 5:39AM, the dealer wrote:


The money wouldn't have hit their accounts for 24/48 hours, so although they all pleaded guilty and the transactions had taken place, there was little or no chance of them actually getting their hands on any of the money.


I know we've to take it witha pince of salt, but it says they bought cars, holidays, crypto currency etc. Sounds like they got their hands on the money.

As we all think, all seems unbelievable

Report the dealer June 12, 2021 12:05 PM BST
I stand to he corrected, have been in the industry for over 40 years and to be honest when you think you have seen it all, something else comes along but I will he astounded if that was the case.
Report the dealer June 12, 2021 12:11 PM BST
Procedures are in place, translation checked by other shops, permission to pay over a certain amounts. If not followed security epos checks, bets translated after the off, bets where stakes are changed, bets re translated after the result.
Daily figures for each shop polled ar night, big losses would show up.
Can understand the bets could be put on, translated and paid but for me, I just cant see how they could get away with sums of money like that in the timescale reported .
Report scaredmoney June 12, 2021 12:28 PM BST
I think most would agree, the dealer
Report the dealer June 12, 2021 12:34 PM BST
I'm not naive though lol so I'm preparing to eat humble pie GrinGrin


I have seen guys like these get thousands of pounds of bets on, without paying a penny, where they bet on the strength of winners, which were never paid for in the first place.
Report Ramruma June 12, 2021 12:51 PM BST
@the dealer -- you talk about overnight checks.

From the Metro link posted earlier, we have the date, which I now see is a Sunday:-

the ‘criminal gang’ worked together to defraud the company out of illicit winnings over three hours at the Edmonton branch, between 2pm and 5pm, on June 30, 2019.
https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/11/ladbrokes-cashier-in-london-paid-1000000-in-three-hours-to-crime-gang-14754995/


Is it significant that the scam was carried out on a Sunday? Skeleton HQ staff; payments made just before closing?

The (alleged) baddies were caught (they're on trial so they must have been) so Ladbrokes' checks and audits worked, but perhaps on a more leisurely timescale not changed since punters would have to wait a few days for a cheque to arrive from head office, which gave plenty of time for the area manager to retrieve the camera film. This was Sunday afternoon, everyone wants to go home, bosses probably work Mon-Fri or Tue-Sat.

Isn't it possible or even likely Ladbrokes updated their payment systems to push-button transfers onto debit cards or directly into bank accounts, which saves Ladbrokes time and money, but forgot to streamline their audit procedures to reflect the new, same-day timescales?
Report the dealer June 12, 2021 1:04 PM BST
Hi ram,

Personally I don't think the Sunday is significant, most people are on 5 from 7 contracts, the security checks imo will be the same whatever day it is, granted 100% most departments are running with less staff than they should be.
They are on trial because the bets happened, , what is reported there could happen, when people ignore pay out procedures. She could have taken and paid them out, so money being paid or not, its still a fraud.
I don't know Ladbrokes debit card procedure but I would be astounded if sums like that would be paid straight into accounts without a time delay.
Such a loss in a shop would also show up on the next day figures, I can't really see how that would be missed.
I said earlier nothing should really surprise me and had it been small amounts over a long period, I could get that, however much it still didn't happen but not in this case.
Report the dealer June 12, 2021 1:05 PM BST
However much it shouldn't happen
Report seaside June 12, 2021 1:56 PM BST
What a load of B****** if you win more than £10 there's a stewards
Report Rico-Dangleflaps June 12, 2021 9:26 PM BST
Markham accepted 22 unreadable handwritten slips on bets predicting the first, second and third places in horse races.

so how were the paid as winning bets?
Report Ramruma June 12, 2021 11:55 PM BST
so how were the paid as winning bets?

The writing became easier to read once the results were known. That is why the person who did the reading is currently on trial, which is where we came in.

For me, the remaining question is whether Ladbrokes' systems were deficient in the way I describe in earlier posts, or if there was another accomplice higher up in the Ladbrokes' chain. My guess is that Ladbrokes' systems really were that bad.

Now, it is also possible that the winning bets were genuine but then you'd have to explain why one gang member pleaded guilty and why the cashier is running a defence of coercion. BUT of course we must remember we've not yet heard the case for the defence.

Presumably the trial resumes Monday so we should get more reports then.
Report dave1357 June 13, 2021 8:02 AM BST
as a btw - this is a company that the UKGC thinks should be supplied with your detailed financial information for affordability checks. They can't even protect their own money.
Report slickster June 13, 2021 10:41 AM BST
Has to be someone involved higher up the ladbrokes food chain. These type of bets just don't come up. Illegible writing etc.. come on..
Report Storm Alert June 13, 2021 11:06 AM BST
Pile of croc. They might have tried, but no chance of being paid out in a few hours.
Report the dealer June 13, 2021 11:34 AM BST
Slickster there are loads of ambigious bet fraudsters out there who prey on inexperienced staff and make a living from it.
Epos tills don't read people's writing, staff input what is on the screen ie the scanned image of the bet. These guys are good at what they do, it could be as simple as a missing decimal point, £2 if a loser £200 if a winner or the bet is written so they can claim a number off outcomes.

Ramruma I just can't have that amount of money going straight into someone's account, I have never known debit refunds hitting the account on the same day. Like I said though every day is a learning day.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk June 13, 2021 11:38 AM BST
a million pounds won in 3 hours paid out GrinLaugh
remarkable
Report slickster June 13, 2021 11:40 AM BST
Understand all that the dealer but head offices look at big payouts. 200 pounds, euros, is the point bets are, or should be, looked at. They should ring head office if in any doubt about payment. 1 or 2 bets may sneak through for couple of ton but absolutely no more. The figures spoken of here are from fairyland.
Report slickster June 13, 2021 11:43 AM BST
Staff these days are clueless sadly. You stop all this nonsense BEFORE bet acceptance. Eg ask the punter is that 2 or 200 etc...
Report impossible123 June 13, 2021 6:53 PM BST
To get a tricast up is extraordinarily difficult and extremely lucky indeed eg on doggies; two within 3hrs is nigh impossible; 3 is unheard of (unless small field with two fancies). Even then cheating is probably in progress.

I think this did not happen as reported otherwise the entire department concerned ought to be given the P45 - Covid or no Covid - and rightly too. They are not fit for purpose!
Report casemoney June 13, 2021 10:28 PM BST
Its Crackers any Manager  had enough of the Lot of It , Couple of Hundred Grand and off to new climbs , I know a manager years back GN day took the lot at end of day think was 14 k ,Fooked off to Spain , he was going anyway so took the Float with him  Laugh He told me he was doing it ,I didn't believe him .. Another shop Manager and Area Manager had their own till set up , was 3 tills in shop , should only have been 2 ,They got
caught in the end .
Report driver2 June 14, 2021 5:41 AM BST
the dealerWithdrawals from Bet365 reach personal accounts on the same day. EG  in the 4.50 Meydan on the 11th March I backed Desert Peace and withdrew returns of £550 which arrived on my account the same day.
Report driver2 June 14, 2021 5:46 AM BST
Apart from that, I can't believe that any bookmaker would instantly pay the sort of winnings discussed in this case, there has to be an insider that Laddies won't admit to.
Report the dealer June 14, 2021 10:48 AM BST
That is online driver, 8m hot saying that, we are talking about shop refunds, where that isn't the case
Report stu June 14, 2021 12:42 PM BST
I remember once trying to put a football bet on an international game, with an £80 stake - they went and rang to have it confirmed before accepting it. Plain
Report Andrew.in.Sweden June 14, 2021 1:38 PM BST
I think the article is grossly exaggerated

The largest bet i have ever had was on Frankel in the Sussex (his 2nd) at silly odds in 2012. I was over for the race and placed the bet in a William Hill shop in Chichester using a Barclays Bank visa/debit card and had to wait for (a) trader acceptance and (b) a call from Visa asking the usual security questions and what the funds were for. The bet was accepted and when i went back to collect i logically assumed my return would simply go back on the same card (i've had this before) but the shop guy said no as it exceeded x amount. He had to make a couple of calls and i was eventually given a cheque paid to my name that didn't bother me as i photographed the bet beforehand, although it was handy there was a Barclays a few minutes walk away.
Report Ramruma June 22, 2021 10:37 AM BST
The trial continues at Wood Green Crown Court but the press seems to have lost interest and I'm not sure the Racing Post has even mentioned it. If anyone knows someone on the Racing Post news desk, give them a ring.
Report Ramruma June 23, 2021 12:10 PM BST
Court 6. Case adjourned this morning, according to the court list web site.

http://xhibit.justice.gov.uk/woodgreen.htm
Report onlooker June 23, 2021 6:38 PM BST
The ENORMINTY of this scenario simply does not ring true.

Sounds more like  a 'one man band' Independent caught with his pants down .... Than a  GLOBAL plc.

What on earth were Ladbrokes doing - or NOT doing ... If you believe the story verbatim.

Surely much more to this than meets the eye - If the amounts quoted are correct.
Report hulk23 June 23, 2021 6:47 PM BST
The largest bet i have ever had was on Frankel in the Sussex (his 2nd)

at 1/20 ?  trader looked on here, saw 1.07 and pressed the green light ...
Report longbridge June 23, 2021 10:23 PM BST
@onlooker

"If you believe the story verbatim.  Surely much more to this than meets the eye"

I echo your sentiments - but this is court reporting. Either the reporter is too lazy to take proper note of court proceedings or Ladbroke's are perjuring themselves in the criminal courts - and the manager not calling them out for it.

What would be your guess at what is not being said?
Report onlooker June 24, 2021 3:18 AM BST
As has been hinted earlier in the Thread - by other people ...

Looks quite possible/probable the - Some sort of 'insider' higher up the employment chain at Ladbrokes is/was/has to have been involved - for the payments to go through (whatever) Authorisation.

Surely some 'airhead girl' behind a Betting Shop counter - dreaming of last  night's edition of TOWIE - cannot have SOLE FULL CONTROL over paying Winnings (above a CERTAIN AMOUNT) - let alone these HUGE Amounts - back onto a  Punters Card?

Other than that - Ladbrokes 'Security'/Card Payment Modus Operandi is as lax  as Barbara Windsor's knicker elastic was.

The EMBARRASSMENT of all this to LADBROKES should surely be excruciating in the extreme ...

So something (possibly bigger - internally?) must be being covered up - for whatever reason.
Report longbridge June 24, 2021 11:12 AM BST
"Some sort of 'insider' higher up the employment chain at Ladbrokes is/was/has to have been involved - for the payments to go through (whatever) Authorisation."

So if that were the case, I would expect them to be on trial too. 

This is already embarrassing for Lad's - surely it is better for them to say "we have controls to ensure payouts above £X are referred to Head Office, unfortunately the shop manager was in collusion with a corrupt member of Head Office staff" than to say "we have no controls, local shop managers can pay out as much as they like without any checks"?
Report grinch June 24, 2021 12:52 PM BST
my understanding is that the systems that were in place up to 2 years ago are no longer working..been told this by staff.. shops would get calls from BAC or security over any one of these bets .. i thought there was something in place where it was physically impossible for managers to pay a certain amount without phoning the duty Area Manager ..its hard to believe ..but very amusing
Report Andrew.in.Sweden June 24, 2021 12:56 PM BST
The largest bet i have ever had was on Frankel in the Sussex (his 2nd)

at 1/20 ?  trader looked on here, saw 1.07 and pressed the green light


Hulk

Correct, this was obvious, although the best odds i saw in the morning was 1.06 (1.05 on occasion). I would have paid about 4% commission on here but i was prepared to forego some profit via WH as i had backed it ante-post on here with funds that were on the account at the time. I could have moved money around and credited the account but i was in UK to watch the race and i originally intended to have a part cash bet on course, but in the end placed it all in the shop via a card. Irrespective of this, the point i wanted to make was how was the team getting paid out, i had to accept a cheque that took clearance time and left a paper trail of course.

I think the sums in the article are grossly exaggerated unless it's an inside job as already mentioned.
Report slickster June 24, 2021 1:40 PM BST
Yep this is quite clearly and obviously an inside job in ladbrokes head office. The old "who checks the checker" scenario.
Report Ramruma June 29, 2021 7:43 PM BST
The case trundles on without press coverage.
Report Ramruma July 27, 2021 1:19 PM BST
Looks like they are up for sentencing today. If someone can tip off the Racing Post newsdesk (too bleeding obvious to put the phone number in the paper!) then you might read about it in tomorrow's paper. It's not like there is any other racing or sports news going on at the moment. Grin
Report impossible123 July 27, 2021 1:45 PM BST
I think a shareholder will certainly ask pertinent questions at a shareholders meeting in the City. How the hell could this have happened? Where are the governance and measures placed to avert unauthorised large payout by someone on the shop floor? If so, those involved with "security" ought to have been issued with P45 by now.
Report San Quentin July 27, 2021 1:56 PM BST
Let's all be honest here.How many shop staff have fiddled?Loads Why poor poor hourly rate greed greed and greed to. Pay staff correctly simply stops the fiddle
Report Ramruma July 27, 2021 2:03 PM BST
How much do you have to pay staff not to fiddle a million quid, even if threatened?
Report saddo July 27, 2021 2:19 PM BST
Paying MPs a good wage didn't simply stop them fiddling. I think the wealthy are as good at fiddling as the poorer folk, thieves will be thieves.
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