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Manoleeds
11 Jun 21 10:03
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Date Joined: 07 Apr 01
| Topic/replies: 1,555 | Blogger: Manoleeds's blog
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15227887/ladbrokes-cashier-crime-gang-winners/

I imagine winning slips like this are so common that she never thought she would be caught.

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Replies: 68
By:
the dealer
When: 11 Jun 21 10:09
Typical Sun story, sensationalism before fact.
By:
The Management
When: 11 Jun 21 10:28
£1 million LaughLaughLaugh

Last Sunday I had £25 Each Way on a 10/3 winner in a Ladbrokes shop - went to collect on the Monday morning and they didn't have enough to pay me out!

Gave me the option of coming back later or going to the other shop (about half a mile away). I'd had the exact same bet at the other shop, so I had to go back later!
Went to the other shop for the other bet - same story, except even when I went back there later, I had to wait for the timer on the safe! Laugh
By:
SlippyBlue
When: 11 Jun 21 10:42
What an absolute croc of the highest order.If that really happened then I'm Van der Valk.
By:
blunder
When: 11 Jun 21 12:46
I used to work at Hills ,admittedly some years ago ,but the idea that the same shop kept paying out big sums of money ,in a very short space of time seems highly improbable. No bet in any shop I worked at for over ten years came to over 10k !
By:
carrot1960
When: 11 Jun 21 12:46
"Paid out over a million " , and yet when i tried to collect £1900 off a football bet they had to wait three days to collect it and that was only after the emptied the FOB'S FOR THREE DAYS
By:
MJK
When: 11 Jun 21 13:16
Remember a local shop manageress getting the sack after being caught on the fiddle. This was the era when your docket had the duplicate attached which you got as your receipt.  She was stamping it for a few quid on 3 numbers on the lotto, but didnt put in any numbers. Instead she waited until the following morning and added them. She got caught by being greedy as she started to do it twice a week instead of the once.
By:
longbridge
When: 11 Jun 21 13:40
A few years ago a group of us were out for a day's racing at Ascot and one of the lads got a £10 combination Trifecta up.

We had to hang around for an hour or two in the bars listening to the brass band play Christmas carols until a middle-aged lady in a tweed skirt-suit turned up, having driven from Tote head office with a hand-written cheque for his winnings.
By:
DIFERENT GRAVY 12
When: 11 Jun 21 13:48
A few years ago I got a multi up with Laddies for £26k(after-timing I know). Took a week to be paid out with 3 cheques as 10k was the most allowed on one cheque!
By:
Brian
When: 11 Jun 21 14:42
I won a couple of K in a Ladbrokes shop in the 70s and they paid me cash ( mainly 5s and 10s) and I took it away in a Safeway shopping bag. Fortunately my bank was in the same street and I let them count it!
By:
FELIX
When: 11 Jun 21 15:00
My reading of the story is they were betting with debit cards so the winnings were put back on there as clearly there is no way any shop holds this cash. However for any return over a certain amount, surely the image of the slip is checked in head office before payment is authorised. It is a long time since I worked in the industry but I would guess around £5K.
By:
Ramruma
When: 11 Jun 21 18:23
More details from the Metro:-

the ‘criminal gang’ worked together to defraud the company out of illicit winnings over three hours at the Edmonton branch, between 2pm and 5pm, on June 30, 2019.
https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/11/ladbrokes-cashier-in-london-paid-1000000-in-three-hours-to-crime-gang-14754995/
By:
impossible123
When: 11 Jun 21 19:32
How'd that happen? No query from "traders" or people higher up after 1st hit? I'd have thought a senior company person eg district/area manager would have descended on shop concerned as soon as a biggie materialised.
By:
Ramruma
When: 11 Jun 21 19:44
@impossible123 -- "How'd that happen? No query from "traders" or people higher up after 1st hit?"

All the winning tricasts came in a three hour period on the same day. (See post before yours.)

As to the higher-ups, well, since they're all in the dock, I'd guess head office did take a look but only after they'd been paid out. The Ladbrokes director who decided to save money by not monitoring bets in real time, that might have caught the scam even earlier, probably got a huge bonus.
By:
impossible123
When: 11 Jun 21 20:18
Surely a payout above a certain amount will need authorisation from higher up prior, no?
By:
scaredmoney
When: 11 Jun 21 20:36
^^ or you can just put 500k onto the wifes card and get to the airport?
By:
Ramruma
When: 11 Jun 21 20:52
Shame the Racing Post did not send anyone down to Wood Green Crown Court. Maybe they will after they read the prosecution case in tomorrow's papers.

As @impossible123 says, it does seem odd that £1 million can be paid out in three hours, on winning tricasts between £5,000 and £100,000, on the authorisation of a betting shop cashier. Either Ladbrokes' controls are seriously lacking or there is someone higher up we've not been told about. My guess is actually that Ladbrokes' controls really are (or were) that lax because direct bank payments rather than cash or cheque are relatively new but we shall see.

The Mail outlines the prosecution case at
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9676133/Ladbrokes-cashier-22-paid-1million-three-hours-crime-gang-court-hears.html
By:
Deptford
When: 11 Jun 21 21:52
She liked a bit of dark winkle then.
By:
BARROWBOY
When: 11 Jun 21 21:57
It’s the type of scam that’s gonna be found out quickly,she should have been on the 6 o’clock ferry.
By:
Deplasterer
When: 11 Jun 21 22:41
I once went into a ladbrokes shop, cost me £100 within 5 strides, 2 old mates doing their bollocks, couldn't let them down. I haven't been back sinceLaugh
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 11 Jun 21 23:41
cant get a bet to take out 200 but they won a million..biggest pile of sh1t since mart said he trained the sas.
By:
xmoneyx
When: 12 Jun 21 00:11
tricasts / million / 3 hours


water mitty stuff

did she use the grid card ExcitedLaugh
By:
casemoney
When: 12 Jun 21 01:31
Are there any Jobs going at Lads please ,I won't need to rip the slips and apply the Sellotape anymore Grin
By:
casemoney
When: 12 Jun 21 01:35
A similar scam was tried in another shop when I was managing , think the TC came to 5 k They were not paid ,and the Manager left

This new Debit Card  business is a gold mine ,by the sounds of things Laugh How much has been robbed and never even noticed ?

Foook me keep me out of the places Laugh
By:
casemoney
When: 12 Jun 21 01:39
I don't know how the current system works if the slips could not be read How were they settled as winners ? Shirley alarm bells would go off,if manually settled  for such Amounts  ,all shops and head office must be linked ?
By:
snowynoon
When: 12 Jun 21 10:37
Yes ,we all as ex betting shop punters think it sounds impossible ,but the fact is it has gone to court ,one guy has pled guilty ,the cashier/managerhas basically admitted it but claimed she was threatened in adesperate attempt to get off,so,unbelievable as it may seem ,iits odds on that it actually did happen .Very shoddy work from Ladbrokes .It was 2019 ,surely theyve put procedures in place to prevent a repeat by now.
By:
JoeMontana
When: 12 Jun 21 11:32
@casemoney. The manager just translates it  with the winning combination straight after the race. Wouldn't need manually settling as it's in the system as a winner. Very simple to do but obviously going to get caught once it's looked into why that shop paid out so much and all the winning slips are illegible.

Can't really prevent it unless insisting on taking all bets on placepot or Irish lotto style slips read by the till rather than translated by the cashier. Impossible to get away with though.

These Romanians involved are actually a well known fraud gang specialising in ambiguous bets.
By:
the dealer
When: 12 Jun 21 11:39
The money wouldn't have hit their accounts for 24/48 hours, so although they all pleaded guilty and the transactions had taken place, there was little or no chance of them actually getting their hands on any of the money.
By:
scaredmoney
When: 12 Jun 21 12:01

Jun 12, 2021 -- 11:39AM, the dealer wrote:


The money wouldn't have hit their accounts for 24/48 hours, so although they all pleaded guilty and the transactions had taken place, there was little or no chance of them actually getting their hands on any of the money.


I know we've to take it witha pince of salt, but it says they bought cars, holidays, crypto currency etc. Sounds like they got their hands on the money.

As we all think, all seems unbelievable

By:
the dealer
When: 12 Jun 21 12:05
I stand to he corrected, have been in the industry for over 40 years and to be honest when you think you have seen it all, something else comes along but I will he astounded if that was the case.
By:
the dealer
When: 12 Jun 21 12:11
Procedures are in place, translation checked by other shops, permission to pay over a certain amounts. If not followed security epos checks, bets translated after the off, bets where stakes are changed, bets re translated after the result.
Daily figures for each shop polled ar night, big losses would show up.
Can understand the bets could be put on, translated and paid but for me, I just cant see how they could get away with sums of money like that in the timescale reported .
By:
scaredmoney
When: 12 Jun 21 12:28
I think most would agree, the dealer
By:
the dealer
When: 12 Jun 21 12:34
I'm not naive though lol so I'm preparing to eat humble pie GrinGrin


I have seen guys like these get thousands of pounds of bets on, without paying a penny, where they bet on the strength of winners, which were never paid for in the first place.
By:
Ramruma
When: 12 Jun 21 12:51
@the dealer -- you talk about overnight checks.

From the Metro link posted earlier, we have the date, which I now see is a Sunday:-

the ‘criminal gang’ worked together to defraud the company out of illicit winnings over three hours at the Edmonton branch, between 2pm and 5pm, on June 30, 2019.
https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/11/ladbrokes-cashier-in-london-paid-1000000-in-three-hours-to-crime-gang-14754995/


Is it significant that the scam was carried out on a Sunday? Skeleton HQ staff; payments made just before closing?

The (alleged) baddies were caught (they're on trial so they must have been) so Ladbrokes' checks and audits worked, but perhaps on a more leisurely timescale not changed since punters would have to wait a few days for a cheque to arrive from head office, which gave plenty of time for the area manager to retrieve the camera film. This was Sunday afternoon, everyone wants to go home, bosses probably work Mon-Fri or Tue-Sat.

Isn't it possible or even likely Ladbrokes updated their payment systems to push-button transfers onto debit cards or directly into bank accounts, which saves Ladbrokes time and money, but forgot to streamline their audit procedures to reflect the new, same-day timescales?
By:
the dealer
When: 12 Jun 21 13:04
Hi ram,

Personally I don't think the Sunday is significant, most people are on 5 from 7 contracts, the security checks imo will be the same whatever day it is, granted 100% most departments are running with less staff than they should be.
They are on trial because the bets happened, , what is reported there could happen, when people ignore pay out procedures. She could have taken and paid them out, so money being paid or not, its still a fraud.
I don't know Ladbrokes debit card procedure but I would be astounded if sums like that would be paid straight into accounts without a time delay.
Such a loss in a shop would also show up on the next day figures, I can't really see how that would be missed.
I said earlier nothing should really surprise me and had it been small amounts over a long period, I could get that, however much it still didn't happen but not in this case.
By:
the dealer
When: 12 Jun 21 13:05
However much it shouldn't happen
By:
seaside
When: 12 Jun 21 13:56
What a load of B****** if you win more than £10 there's a stewards
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 12 Jun 21 21:26
Markham accepted 22 unreadable handwritten slips on bets predicting the first, second and third places in horse races.

so how were the paid as winning bets?
By:
Ramruma
When: 12 Jun 21 23:55
so how were the paid as winning bets?

The writing became easier to read once the results were known. That is why the person who did the reading is currently on trial, which is where we came in.

For me, the remaining question is whether Ladbrokes' systems were deficient in the way I describe in earlier posts, or if there was another accomplice higher up in the Ladbrokes' chain. My guess is that Ladbrokes' systems really were that bad.

Now, it is also possible that the winning bets were genuine but then you'd have to explain why one gang member pleaded guilty and why the cashier is running a defence of coercion. BUT of course we must remember we've not yet heard the case for the defence.

Presumably the trial resumes Monday so we should get more reports then.
By:
dave1357
When: 13 Jun 21 08:02
as a btw - this is a company that the UKGC thinks should be supplied with your detailed financial information for affordability checks. They can't even protect their own money.
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