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Celtic warrior
08 May 21 16:17
Joined:
Date Joined: 18 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 1,110 | Blogger: Celtic warrior's blog
Another horse with zero form wins after being backed from 40-1 into 11/4. I ask one question. Does a horse just wake up one morning and say its my day today and improve 40 pounds , after telling everyone in advance over breakfast hay? Or maybe as a cynic he has been pulled in all his previous races waiting for this one special day for a gamble. Go figure?


Every one of these that goes in devalues fair comptition
Pause Switch to Standard View Cork gamble another kick in the teeth...
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Report tanglefoot May 8, 2021 5:21 PM BST
They wait
Report bettysboy May 8, 2021 5:21 PM BST
Surely disguising a horses true ability, by running it when conditions are not in its favour, is what a trainer should do?

A key art of training is finding the right races to run in with a chance of winning.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:22 PM BST
And you wonder why me and many others won't bet on low grade Irish racing. If they don't crack down on it they will lose betting revenue. Their choice not mine
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:24 PM BST
But bettysboy if you champion that you destroy the game in the long run. Or you destroy handicap racing anyway.
Report bettysboy May 8, 2021 5:24 PM BST
Quite right CW - you have the choice and it is your right to exercise it.
Report pablo-fanque May 8, 2021 5:26 PM BST
is it the "showing no form" and winning , the gamble that wins , or both that is annoying CW ?
Report kavvie May 8, 2021 5:29 PM BST
SIR mark prescott has been handicapping middle distance horses over sprint distances for over 25 years?then run up sequences of 5 or 6 wins?  he got made a sir for his skills.  whats the difference here? running horse over unsuitable distances and unsuitable ground . same ballpark,different method.
Report bettysboy May 8, 2021 5:29 PM BST
At a low grade of race i believe any trainer should do what they can, within the rules, to offer the owners a chance of getting a return. It is clearly much more difficult to achieve this when targeting better class of races, but is certainly not impossible nor uncommon.

Does this ruin or enhance the sport and asscociated problem solving (gambling)?
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:30 PM BST
The former for me. As it doesn't give a level playing field.
Report Cork Langer May 8, 2021 5:31 PM BST
If you want a level playing field, the number of races that meet such a criteria are very limited, has not changed in that respect since racing began, it is more a case of who or what you know in the majority of races, if you feel strongly that it is unjust then you should have the discipline to avoid such races and select the festival meetings and pattern races where horses more often than not are run on their merits.
Unfortunately the majority of punters do not have the appropriate mentality to pass a betting opportunity on, for example of the 66 races today, I expect most who play online played more than they let go by, whereas in hindsight I expect most would admit they shouldn't have got involved.
Report bettysboy May 8, 2021 5:31 PM BST
Where there is money to be made there exists no level playing field methinks.
Report pablo-fanque May 8, 2021 5:31 PM BST
ok thanks
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:32 PM BST
Every time it happens bookmakers put more insurance into their prices and every other punter then pays for this skullduggery
Report shoodacoodadidnt May 8, 2021 5:32 PM BST
I'm with you Celtic - I think it's the unabashed nature of it that's unbelievable - I think when you try to persuade people who might join in for a bit of fun that you can make some sense of the form and you really just can't, then it isn't good for the game and is probably part of it's demise. If I mention to friends that they could have a bit of fun having a bet, increasingly they say "but isn't it just completely bent?". I can't see that that's good for the sport.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:34 PM BST
Very true cork. Very apt user name too! I played only four races today and won in one and made a profit. Btw sp returns under lockdown are a crime
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:34 PM BST
Very true cork. Very apt user name too! I played only four races today and won in one and made a profit. Btw sp returns under lockdown are a crime
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:35 PM BST
Well said shooda
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:36 PM BST
Most of my non betting friends and family all think racing is bent!
Report 11kv May 8, 2021 5:38 PM BST
It is.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy May 8, 2021 5:44 PM BST
never in the 25yrs have a seen one of sir marks go 20/1>>11/4
Report bettysboy May 8, 2021 5:45 PM BST
Gambling involves variables, sometimes you know the variables and sometimes you dont
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:46 PM BST
Nothing wrong with what sir mark does. His horse runs to his merit over that trip which is not its best. Whereas this cork money machine must have been pulled in all its previous races. Big difference.

I really hope that Boycey raises this at 11am sunday
Report diabolicalliability May 8, 2021 5:47 PM BST
i do believe prescott inherited his
Report Cork Langer May 8, 2021 5:51 PM BST
Regrettably CW I would say you are in a small minority, at a guess I would say most will have played 20+ races today if they were to be honest, that is far too many to turn a profit in on a regular basis, unless you are trading or a very lucky person.
Racing most certainly is less than straight and I see no way new people can be farmed to get involved as it is widely accepted by those who are involved that it will always be that way and there is very little that can be done to effectively change things given the sport is so poorly governed.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 5:55 PM BST
Governance will never improve whilst the game is continually ruined through rampant nepotism.

Take example of these new fangled joint traineeships. Complete joke which places yet another barrier to new entrants. Then the buffoons on itv racing just go on promoting it
Report kavvie May 8, 2021 5:58 PM BST
its a matter of opinion as to say the horse didnt run on his merits before?like sir marks it might not have had conditions in its favour as i stated before.what of  sir marks sp ing at 200/1 in 6 f maidens at windsor and places similar etc 3 times and then opening at say 6s into 2s first time it runs over 1m4 in a handicap? maybe off 55 or 60? and finishes winning off 85?  all ok ya?
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:01 PM BST
Kavvie. Not okay at all in my book
Report kavvie May 8, 2021 6:03 PM BST
but its happening for 25 years?  and hes the darling of the media
Report Crawford May 8, 2021 6:04 PM BST
"he got made a sir for his skills"

He's an hereditary baronet kavvie.  And if he wasn't averse to, er, female (allegedly) company he may have an heir to whom he could pass the title.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:07 PM BST
Is that true crawford. Would honestly never guessed that, not that it matters anyway
Report Cider May 8, 2021 6:11 PM BST
Assuming you think it's wrong, what would you propose doing about it? If they've raced within the rules, you can't punish someone because the horse was heavily punted.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:15 PM BST
Cider i propose not to bet on those races. If everyone did that then those races would not exist!

I dont bet on handicaps or any low class race.

If mark Johnston believes that the handicap system is broken then its good enough for me.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:16 PM BST
Cider. Did the horse race within the rules though. IMHO I dont think it did!!!
Report jimnast May 8, 2021 6:18 PM BST
he might have improved for been ridden by rachael,i know i would Whoops
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:20 PM BST
The crux of this is that if this horse won at 40-1 then fine.

But no it was backed into 7-4 which means that it was defo a plot
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:22 PM BST
Jimnast she would definitely make you finish quicker. Lol
Report casemoney May 8, 2021 6:28 PM BST
Rachael brought the Carrots with her Laugh
Report Cider May 8, 2021 6:30 PM BST
Obviously you have to have evidence that the rules were broken.

The market is one of the many clues in horse racing.

Of course anyone can opt out of betting on the low grade stuff.

I always remember Presvis running for its mark on the third run at Haydock. Like it or not, figuring out which ones are off for their lives is part of the game. Even the top yards are there for an outing in the group races if they have bigger targets down the track.
Report kavvie May 8, 2021 6:37 PM BST
so if it opened at 10s and was backed into 11/4 would you be happy? it was the bookies who decided it was a 40/1 shot. not the connections. they said hey thats a great price we will have a punt. our horse had his ideal conditions. we might go close..  and thats how life works in the horse racing game!!
Report hulk23 May 8, 2021 6:43 PM BST
tenner each-way will knock one in from 40's to 12/1 ...
Report kavvie May 8, 2021 6:44 PM BST
correct hulk
Report Ramruma May 8, 2021 6:48 PM BST
imo it is the circumstances around the jockey change that want looking at.
Report ashleigh May 8, 2021 6:52 PM BST
paddy power spokesman, hats off to the punters who backed the winner, a proper old fashioned coup,well done to all involved. 
must have had the tenner on with them, and marked their card.AngryCrazy
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:54 PM BST
Lol all these people trying to justify this as okay. It stinks!!
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 6:56 PM BST
I gtee no bookie laid a monkey at 40-1 . Smelt the rat
Report hulk23 May 8, 2021 6:59 PM BST
depends what it is on here. 

if they can have your monkey at 40/1 back on here at 85.0 then you will probably be accommodated ...
Report hulk23 May 8, 2021 7:00 PM BST
if it's 34 you won't, and you'll be limited to peanuts for asking ...
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy May 8, 2021 7:01 PM BST
connections get 20 people to submit £20 at the same time..then its in freefall.
Report steerforth May 8, 2021 7:02 PM BST
Has always happened always will. If it was every day it would put me off for sure, but it doesn't, it's not nearly as prevalent as some here are making out. Over the years on the odd occasion I've bumped into a gamble like this, it's just a question of dusting  down and moving on - same when you find yourself on an obvious non-trier. Racing is a game for grown-ups, dark and mysterious with a whiff of danger,that's part of the attraction. I've no view on whether they've cheated with this, but it does look like conditions were not wildly different to those it's met before. It's been off since December, horses do improve, and it doesn't need to talk for connections to be aware of that. Why should they tell anybody?
Report G Hall May 8, 2021 7:09 PM BST
I agree with you completely CW, however if one was betting on that race and saw the gamble, then  you are being pre warned about the potential scam, which is what it basically is.

Two things, serious punters have their own modus operandi and wouldn't be too fussed about such a gamble unless betting in that particular race, where by they then have to maybe reconsider their view of the race.

Secondly punters who bet in nearly every race, without any structure to their betting, probably end up losing anyway.

As much as it stinks and I abhor the situation, the nature of the gamble at least punters are aware of it before the race, and can act accordingly, and unlike the coolmore mafia, where it is almost impossible for the punter to figure out, which one is trying
Report ashleigh May 8, 2021 7:12 PM BST
trainer, know idea where the money for him came from, we are not a gambling stable, horse probably improved due to the better ground, replaced jockey failed to fill his covid form in correctly. very smelly.
Report revs May 8, 2021 7:18 PM BST
Ask yourself the question, would you try and land a gamble if you were an owner/trainer?  I would!  If you're not inside, you're outside.  Unfortunately 99.9% of us are on the outside and we're the mugs that fund it.  The game is bent and always will be!
Report shoodacoodadidnt May 8, 2021 7:24 PM BST
I love the trainers who SAY "they have no idea blah blah ...." hilarious. And I agree with G Hall, Coolmore stuff even worse and puts zillions more people away every day. .... but don't tell them I said it ;)
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 7:24 PM BST
Why not ban the trainer for six months in such situations. That will stop it
Report hulk23 May 8, 2021 7:35 PM BST
won't.  just means they get denise foster to look after things whilst they're in Barbados ..
Report shoodacoodadidnt May 8, 2021 7:43 PM BST
LaughTrue
Report differentdrum May 8, 2021 7:48 PM BST
Same with all these gambles, insiders pick up the wedge, and punters get a few crumbs.

And of course the 1.01 trainer has no idea how the gamble originated.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 7:55 PM BST
Why dont stewards call it for what it is...FRAUD and ban the trainer for six months?
Report geoff m May 8, 2021 7:55 PM BST
another @ warwick taking place now only 38 lbs out of hcap laid @ 100s here  now evens in running.
Report leif May 8, 2021 7:56 PM BST
Danilo D'Airy

backed early?
Report Nogoody May 8, 2021 8:13 PM BST
Golly-gosh and holy moley,I've never heard of such a carry on before, wouldn't have happened in the old days. This must be a new thing, I blame Brexit.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 8:16 PM BST
Nobody. You blindly accept it. We have to start challenging it. ALL OF US
Report Nogoody May 8, 2021 8:30 PM BST
You're not much of a warrior, are you ? F.F.S, grow a pair and stop Whinging. This is not a sport, it's a business and a big boy's business at that. Have you tried knitting or origami ?, might be more suitable for your mindset.
Report flukes May 8, 2021 8:38 PM BST
Nogoody
Nogoody 08 May 21 19:30 Joined: 23 Jun 06 | Topic/replies: 657 | Blogger: Nogoody's blog
You're not much of a warrior, are you ? F.F.S, grow a pair and stop Whinging. This is not a sport, it's a business and a big boy's business at that. Have you tried knitting or origami ?, might be more suitable for your mindset.

Laugh
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 9:07 PM BST
Blindly accept corruption. This ain't Chicago 1929
Report kavvie May 8, 2021 9:10 PM BST
celtic i think virtual racing or maybe online poker would suit you better as a hobby or bingo??  all these grubby things happening. and its occuring in warwick  too. im sure them darstardly irish had to have something to do with the warwick one? 38lbs out of the handicap and hoses in backed from 100/1 to 7/4 old chap??!?!
Report mrcombustible May 8, 2021 9:17 PM BST
I had no idea' - trainer in the dark as Call Me Freddie lands massive plunge
Call Me Freddie (left) leads over the last under Rachael Blackmore on his way to landing a huge punt at Cork
Call Me Freddie (left) leads over the last under Rachael Blackmore on his way to landing a huge punt at Cork
David Keane (racingpost.com/photos)
1 of 1
By Sam Hendry
UPDATED 8:00PM, MAY 8 2021
 
Trainer Sam Curling said he had "no idea where the money came from" after Call Me Freddie landed a huge gamble under Rachael Blackmore in Cork's 3m handicap hurdle, the six-year-old striking as the 11-4 favourite having been available at 40-1 on Saturday morning.

Call Me Freddie had been backed into as low as 13-8 before drifting slightly before the off, and he prevailed under Blackmore in a thrilling finish.

Jumping into the lead at the final hurdle, he was met with a strong challenge by the John Joe Walsh-trained Wild Atlantic Lady, but dug in to edge home by a neck.

Prior to the race Call Me Freddie held form figures of 97090 and had been beaten a combined 330 lengths in his five starts for Curling, but that did not deter punters from latching on to him during the course of the day.

4.45 Cork full result and replay

The gathering support was accelerated when, in an added twist, Grand National-winning jockey Blackmore was called up as a late replacement for the ride after previously-booked rider Ian McCarthy was removed after incorrectly filling in Covid registration forms.

Call Me Freddie and Rachael Blackmore (right) with winning connections
Call Me Freddie and Rachael Blackmore (right) with winning connections
David Keane (racingpost.com/photos)
Speaking after the race, Curling attributed the booking of Blackmore as the key reason behind the massive gamble.

"I had no idea where the money was coming from, we’re not a punting yard that way," he said.

"I think people latched onto the fact that Rachael took over on him after Ian had an error with his Covid form. It’s a pity Ian couldn’t take the ride – it was purely human error that he forgot to fill his form in correctly, and he’ll be back on him next time.

"Rachael’s done a great job, but you’d expect that from her. He really knuckled down and I could see him winning again now."

Call Me Freddie was encountering good ground for the first time since moving to Curling from Jedd O’Keeffe's yard last year, and the better ground was credited as the reason for his sudden improvement.

"He's always worked like a nice horse," Curling said. "The heavy ground was against him during the winter and he seemed to improve there for the good ground. He was working away fine and had been going well, but he won a 0-95 handicap by a neck so it wasn’t like he was tearing it up."


Rachael Blackmore after riding Call Me Freddie to victory at Cork
Rachael Blackmore after riding Call Me Freddie to victory at Cork
David Keane (racingpost.com/photos)
Glory for punters meant agony for bookmakers, and Paddy Power reported Call Me Freddie to be their biggest loser of the day.

Spokesman Paul Binfield said: “Hats off to the punters who backed the winner – we saw plenty of support from 40s down throughout the day and we felt the writing might be on the wall when we saw the pilot change. A proper, old-fashioned coup and well done to all involved.”

Curling, a successful point-to-point trainer based in Cashel, County Tipperary, has had a breakthrough 2020-21 campaign under rules with nine winners from 98 runners, having previously never trained more than one winner in a season.

Call Me Freddie was recording his first win on his 11th start under rules, seven of which have come over hurdles, with his best showing before this coming when finishing second in a bumper at Carlisle in November 2019 when trained by O'Keeffe.

The raceday stewards inquired into the apparent improvement in Call Me Freddie's form, with Curling giving evidence.

The trainer told the stewards he put the improved performance down to the better ground. Senior National Hunt handicapper Andrew Shaw also gave evidence, stating he felt Call Me Freddie's improvement was more in the region of stones not pounds, and it was hard to envisage how the horse could start at such a short price based on previous form.

Having considered the evidence, the stewards sent the matter to the referrals committee for further consideration.
Report leif May 8, 2021 9:25 PM BST
I'd feel some improvement if Rachel climbed aboard me at short notice.
Report shoodacoodadidnt May 8, 2021 9:31 PM BST
"error with Covid form" ..... OMG!!! you really couldn't make this crap up - how sophisticated are these people - I mean there really is a part of me that thinks "hats off to them .... f******ng genius!" ..... no-one is to be trusted - no-one ... and that's ok probably .... just human
Report shoodacoodadidnt May 8, 2021 9:33 PM BST
28Apr21    Changed Trainer notification: Miss Hilary McLoughlin to S Curling
19Apr21    Changed Trainer notification: S Curling to Miss Hilary McLoughlin

Just noticed that too ....... WTF!
Report leif May 8, 2021 9:37 PM BST
Dodged carrot testing?
Report penzance May 8, 2021 9:42 PM BST
could've bought it to keep hold of it.
Owner & trainer,now.
Report Celtic warrior May 8, 2021 10:39 PM BST
KaVvie

Yes virtual dogs from pupptown is my next way forward.ffs. 40 years betting dont think so. So sad I raise the issue of corruption in racing and I am treated like herr Adolf. Racing really is bent. All this fluffyness above the surface with francesca and alex
Report ItsMeSwaddle May 9, 2021 12:08 AM BST
Makes you wonder what the point of studying any form is !!
Report unclepuncle May 9, 2021 6:42 AM BST
Brilliant little coup - well done to all concerned, hope they won plenty.Cool
Report punchestown May 9, 2021 8:24 AM BST
The term "Swimming with Sharks" was coined to describe betting on horse racing,it always was an insider game and always will be.
Report kavvie May 9, 2021 8:59 AM BST
celtic since the mid 1800s gambles like this have been going on.its part of the game. in in it over 40 years. nearing 50 to be honest but simply put its a thing thats part of racing.the glorious uncertainty.! and i will also say that for every successful gamble 10 go by the way side and are quickly forgotten. your at it over 40 years and didnt know this?
Report ashleigh May 9, 2021 9:04 AM BST
hope nick luck is on the case on his show this morning.
Report slickster May 9, 2021 10:18 AM BST
The original jockey needs a 6 month ban. He can then get tutorial lessons in how to read and write properly.
Report irishone May 9, 2021 10:30 AM BST
The irony is
If the horse had got beat
Some wag would have come on here
Scoffing that a big gamble had come unstuck

Ignorance is bliss !
Report differentdrum May 9, 2021 10:33 AM BST
Deception/cheating, whatever you want to call it, should be condemned in any sport.

To suggest that it is grown-up to turn a blind eye because it doesn't happen very often seems like an attempt to climb a pedestal of stupidity.

The more you turn a blind eye the more you encourage the practice.

It is of no relevance how many times these gambles succeed or fail. Clearly some do succeed. At the end of the day the punter is being fleeced. If someone picked your pocket and got away with it would you just applaud them?

There is no mystique to studying form and effectively finding out that you have no chance of winning.
Report irishone May 9, 2021 10:44 AM BST
Vast majority of those betting on horses
Have not got a clue what goes on in the game
Same with watching football , tennis or any other sport

Bookies are a lot cleverer than the vast majority
In making profits at the pynting game
Report irishone May 9, 2021 10:44 AM BST
*punting
Report olddesperado May 9, 2021 10:46 AM BST
I'm very surprised the bookies don't bring in a condition of accepting a bet that they have a right to void it if a significant jockey upgrade occurs.
The horse would have been greatly reduced in price had Blackmore been declared from the night before.

This happens so regularly now I'd say it's only a matter of time.
Report irishone May 9, 2021 10:48 AM BST
Deception is not cheating
Deception goes on in every sport
ITs how you win in football, tennis
Or any sport you wish to name

Cheating is something else
Report jimnast May 9, 2021 1:34 PM BST
forget the name of the horse but kf took over the ride from an little known jockey at brighton and a right touch was landed,the young jockey was based in newmarket and when he asked how long it would take him to get to brighton he was told around 2 hours,they claimed that they were unaware he was on a bicycle.
Report swiftynifty May 9, 2021 1:54 PM BST
Karl Bowman(7), had only ever had one other ride in public. For trainer Mark Wallace. Gambled from double figures down to 7-4, won by just a neck. Hard to believe Bowman could've won on her. Not sure if that saw Wallace warned off.
Report 1st time poster May 9, 2021 2:08 PM BST
someone [boycie ] finally discussing bolgers comments about drugs in horses racing been rife
Report jimnast May 9, 2021 2:22 PM BST
yes swifty thats the one scraped home .
Report 11kv May 9, 2021 5:15 PM BST
Denis O Reagan in the 5pm at Killarney LaughLaugh stealing a living.
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