18.30 Tues Envoi Allen v Monkfish

This is an intriguing encounter. A proven 3miler against a very promising 20f winner trying distance 1st time; proven quality vs potential hype? The former was neither convincing nor jump slickly at Cheltenham; the latter fell.

Townend vs Blackmore. A no-brainer.

I think Monkfish, looked at though he had enough for the season last time. I will be siding with Envoi.

I would have another look at that race. Monkfish was never stronger than at the line. It wasn't as good as before but he still had a ton in hand.

I agree he was strong at the line, I just didnt think he travelled that well.

colreevy may surprise them both , highest rated and in receipt of 7lb.

not a betting prospect as who knows but what a great race in prospect

ive shoved a few quid on colreevy at 7/1

All over Envoi Allen...Odds against thank you very much.

The market very rarely gets these things far wrong and as it suggests it's virtually a coin flip. I won't be betting because I'm a big fan of both horses and I'd struggle to split them. If I was pushed, over this trip I'd favour Monkfish. Can't wait to watch it though.

Monkfish fully fit - some speculation about his wellbeing apparently?  Envoi Allen?  Lay both - We can't lose much and the course-winning mare's seven pound claim has to be a factor.

On monkfish big- times for me sway it even with it's mistakes. GL all.

Fill her boots on envoi , horse was beaten by the course last time out , not this time. The downhill run to the fence at Cheltenham done him and secondly there was a distraction in that they were trying to get a good look at the fences but the other horses were all around him, will not happen today.

probably wont have a bet in this , these "2 horse clashes are often a letdown one way or another, of the 2 i would favour envoi ,but the mare gets the 7 and comes out just on top so cant be dissmissed . envoi for me !

I like Colreevy for this. Gave weight and a beating to 2 useful mares at Cheltenham despite jumping right throughout and gets a handy 7lb allowance today. By Flemensfirth and out of a half sister to 2 reasonable 3m chasers (Spider Web and Hurricane Darwin), I think she will improve for the step up to 3m+ today, and if that proves to be the case she should be bang in the mix here.

Cheltenham Gold cup 2022 prices:

Monkfish 4/1
Envio    8/1
Colreevy 33/1
Franco   100/1


Looking at those prices tenner(saver) 0n Franco at 60s today could be the value especially with Envio falling last time, you never know how next time out after a fall goes till they run on a racecourse again. What will be the prices after today's race be? Hope all 4 stay standing can't wait for the race

hope the big 2 stay standing and see who the best horse is. I'm putting a line through the envoi's fall and still think he is the best around. he will have loads in the tank to get home 3m, monksfishs jumping wasnt great in cheltenham and was alot harder race than it should have been.

At the respective prices I think Monkfish is the better bet. Better form and has run over distance; agree Envoi's fall means he did not have a hard race at Cheltenham, but 41 days should be fine for Monkfish . Looking forward to the race. Chacun Pour Soi looks a solid bet away from Cheltenham.

Move , whatever you do don't take the 33/1 about Collreevy today is her last run as she's in foal..

Colreevy might run better than expected, its in foal.
Seems to improve them a bit.

It certainly does Koi, but I would never run a mare of mine in foal over fences or hurdles , hopefully she gets round safely..

It certainly does Koi, but I would never run a mare of mine in foal over fences or hurdles , hopefully she gets round safely..

Have to agree with you workrider,Dawn Run springs to mind in going to the well once too often,the Mullins family were against running her but the greedy owner ruled against them,we know what happened there.

Not going to be a real stamina test. EA should win easy.

Good luck to Colreevy then.  Come back safe.

It's a bit of a head scratcher this contest but I'm siding with Monkfish just about, should be a great race to watch.

Fancy EA but only betting if he behaves in the prelims

Ground looks pretty GOOD

Envoi Allen for me

Blew them away

2 bubbles well and truly burst
wd coolreevy backers

WD Colreevy !!!

Fancy retiring a gold cup horse.

Envoi been fooked up with all the turmoil sad to see it pu

They might have to do something about the mares allowance.

We was fooled for a while.

mare batters 3 fences and gags up against 2 reincarnations of arkle

Nice !

Wasnt stopping Either   

Oi!  Oi!  Well done Colreevy.  Monkfish is very classy but is often a ponderous jumper.  Reportedly getting back injections in advance of this race?  Anyone?

Reevy broke into the carrot Shed

great to see even if it was another mullins winner

Best horse won on the day. Willie beforehand said this was the best horse in the race on ratings. Monkfish ran a good race to be fair. Envoi Allen two out of two disappointments since changing stables and surroundings.

Maybe the real Envoi Allen is still at Elliott's

Townend riding to beat Envoi Allen gave the leader too much rope. Speed track you don't want to give too much ground away on a stayer, particularly on one who might throw in a mistake. Horse and rider looked shaky at Cheltenham and again today. Chances are she would have made more mistakes had she been taken on. Once they turned in Townend seemed to give up very quickly.

Well done LoyalHoncho and The Dragon.

so if you listen to mullins/booby that means elly may is best chaser at mullins barn

Monkfish was 4/1 ante post Gold Cup favourite. He was a massive disappointment. If Mullins thought the winner was that good how come he hasn't been more adventurous with her and more to the point how come she only fell over the line at Cheltenham? She beat Shattered Love three lengths? This looks like it was a dart throw on her last run.

Thanks blunder.  You are named after my favourite ever greyhound.  Won me lots and lots of money back in the late seventies!

envoi gone

clearly a black scar for envoi from his fall in cheltenham, he was deliberate jumping over the first mile but loosened out after. HDB will have him sorted next year. monkfish didnt lose much in defeat, still the one to beat in the gc imo

Monkfish is finished. Mullins is moving on. In interview he's forgotten him already.

cheers blunder the ratings did if for me with the 7/1 price happy days

I think Envoi Allen may be another hyped horse like Samcro. He'd be a bit of a thinker too, and possibly fragile. Also, the idea to step-up to 3m having fallen at 2m 4f looked a step too far at this moment - he was a spent force with 3 fences to go.

Why is Mullins training these donkeys when so many are so much better on here IYO?

e.g Thinker "Rodin".......fragile,black scar etc etc etc?

I'm very disappointed  - we were told these were 2 of the greatest chasers there's ever been - beaten by a pregnant girl

Once the dust settles and Envoi's had a summer in a field, he may end up back in his old box.

Envoi Allen too bad to be true today I feel,it never touched a twig over fences before the move and has clearly regressed. Samcro comparisons fair I think at this stage until we see what it goes like next season.

Monkfish ran its race I think and just wasn't good enough on the day.

worried about envoi ever since they said he had a wind op and gordon avoided Dublin festival

Just a word of praise for Mullins on the front end. One of best at bossing races from the front. He immediately won the tactical battle with Townend forcing Monkfish to do something he wasn't used to doing. For me it looked like the pressure got to Townend at Cheltenham and again today. When the mistake came it wasn't a massive surprise.

Townend wouldve known before the race the other one was gonna lead so cant see how it was a tactical battle to be honest.

Monkfish doesnt quicken, if he is to win a gold cup, he has got to be ridden handy. a 4 runner race in which the winner was given an very easy lead is no pointer to next March. EA there is something wrong with that horse, moved up and then looked like there was nothing left very quickly, could've got 3rd prize money, but clearly something had gone amiss

Monkfish looked like he's had a long, hard season. Mistake at the third last finished any chance today. Still expect him to be a major player for the Gold Cup, but not to do a tap before the DRF.

No chance EA goes back to Elliott. Jumps races are just a bit of fun for the owners who have a huge breeding business to look after.

Brilliant performance by Colreevy but i must admit i am horrified at the thought of running an in foal mare over Jumps that is just asking for trouble shirley and the sooner that is banned the better.

acey, good point that.

Is there any evidence that racing mares over jumps is particualy dangerous for them or their foal? Horses are pregant for around a year. In the wild, pregnant mares must be exposed to all sorts of dangers/conditions and are, presumably, pretty robust. Racing pregnant mares is one of those things that sounds like it might be bad, but I think one should ask for evidence before just accepting it.

Evidence?....Big No Brainer for me.

To state the obvious, the concern is because she might take a bad fall!!

I guess she's only a few weeks in, but it doesn't sound right for a jumper.

Forming conclusions without evidence is indeed a "no brainer" Acey.

One can still ask how many mares have lost a foal because of an injury sustained in a jumps race. Wild horses live in some exceptionally tough conditions. A pregnant horse still needs to be able to escape predators. These are hardy animals.

I agree it would look bad if a pregnant mare were to fall in a race and lose her foal. I'd like to see some stats on how likely it is to happen when considering if they should be stopped from racing.

envoi allen to have a scan on a injury to a hind joint he picked up in yesterdays race.

I suppose the difference in the wild to what we are talking about is that "we" know better and can intervene to protect the horse.

If you want to go down the in the wild route we might as well leave the Aintree fences alone, ad when the protestors kick off we can tell them that  in the wild they probably face worse.

With regard to mares in foal taking part in NH races, I remember many moons ago Capt Neville Crump was asked about the risks in an interview and he was adamant that it was minimal because he believed that a maternal preservation took over and that mares made extra effort to look after themselves and their unborn foals.

Over many years there have been a number of mares that have shown improved form for being in foal and from memory I have not heard of any that have lost foals because of it, though given the topic in question it is unlikely that anyone would want to go out of their way to make others aware of such an event.

How many mares in foal have actually participated in chase races down the years? are there figures on it?

Are female jockeys obliged to stop riding as soon as they become pregnant? Of course they probably would anyhow but is there a rule that obliges them to?

I'll go further than probably, I will go out on a limb and commit to saying that they definitely would.