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Manoleeds
26 Apr 21 19:00
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Date Joined: 07 Apr 01
| Topic/replies: 1,453 | Blogger: Manoleeds's blog
Never sure how to factor in a fall in a previous race. Envoi a pound higher rated but  so what ? I'll go for Monkfish but at 11/10 it isn't the bet of the festival .
Pause Switch to Standard View 18.30 Tues Envoi Allen v Monkfish
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Report impossible123 April 26, 2021 8:54 PM BST
This is an intriguing encounter. A proven 3miler against a very promising 20f winner trying distance 1st time; proven quality vs potential hype? The former was neither convincing nor jump slickly at Cheltenham; the latter fell.

Townend vs Blackmore. A no-brainer.
Report sj April 26, 2021 8:58 PM BST
I think Monkfish, looked at though he had enough for the season last time. I will be siding with Envoi.
Report differentdrum April 26, 2021 9:17 PM BST
I would have another look at that race. Monkfish was never stronger than at the line. It wasn't as good as before but he still had a ton in hand.
Report sj April 26, 2021 9:21 PM BST
I agree he was strong at the line, I just didnt think he travelled that well.
Report The Dragon April 26, 2021 10:22 PM BST
colreevy may surprise them both , highest rated and in receipt of 7lb.

not a betting prospect as who knows but what a great race in prospect
Report The Dragon April 26, 2021 10:24 PM BST
ive shoved a few quid on colreevy at 7/1
Report acey deucy April 26, 2021 10:45 PM BST
All over Envoi Allen...Odds against thank you very much.Cool
Report chipbutty April 26, 2021 11:00 PM BST
The market very rarely gets these things far wrong and as it suggests it's virtually a coin flip. I won't be betting because I'm a big fan of both horses and I'd struggle to split them. If I was pushed, over this trip I'd favour Monkfish. Can't wait to watch it though.
Report LoyalHoncho April 27, 2021 2:58 AM BST
Monkfish fully fit - some speculation about his wellbeing apparently?  Envoi Allen?  Lay both - We can't lose much and the course-winning mare's seven pound claim has to be a factor.
Report Movewiththetimes April 27, 2021 3:32 AM BST
On monkfish big- times for me sway it even with it's mistakes. GL all.
Report irishone April 27, 2021 7:15 AM BST
Fill her boots on envoi , horse was beaten by the course last time out , not this time. The downhill run to the fence at Cheltenham done him and secondly there was a distraction in that they were trying to get a good look at the fences but the other horses were all around him, will not happen today.
Report FOYLESWAR April 27, 2021 7:27 AM BST
probably wont have a bet in this , these "2 horse clashes are often a letdown one way or another, of the 2 i would favour envoi ,but the mare gets the 7 and comes out just on top so cant be dissmissed . envoi for me !
Report undertaker April 27, 2021 8:36 AM BST
I like Colreevy for this. Gave weight and a beating to 2 useful mares at Cheltenham despite jumping right throughout and gets a handy 7lb allowance today. By Flemensfirth and out of a half sister to 2 reasonable 3m chasers (Spider Web and Hurricane Darwin), I think she will improve for the step up to 3m+ today, and if that proves to be the case she should be bang in the mix here.
Report Movewiththetimes April 27, 2021 9:07 AM BST
Cheltenham Gold cup 2022 prices:

Monkfish 4/1
Envio    8/1
Colreevy 33/1
Franco   100/1


Looking at those prices tenner(saver) 0n Franco at 60s today could be the value especially with Envio falling last time, you never know how next time out after a fall goes till they run on a racecourse again. What will be the prices after today's race be? Hope all 4 stay standing can't wait for the race GrinGrin
Report Anyska April 27, 2021 10:04 AM BST
hope the big 2 stay standing and see who the best horse is. I'm putting a line through the envoi's fall and still think he is the best around. he will have loads in the tank to get home 3m, monksfishs jumping wasnt great in cheltenham and was alot harder race than it should have been.
Report Storm Alert April 27, 2021 12:08 PM BST
At the respective prices I think Monkfish is the better bet. Better form and has run over distance; agree Envoi's fall means he did not have a hard race at Cheltenham, but 41 days should be fine for Monkfish . Looking forward to the race. Chacun Pour Soi looks a solid bet away from Cheltenham.
Report workrider April 27, 2021 12:20 PM BST
Move , whatever you do don't take the 33/1 about Collreevy today is her last run as she's in foal..
Report koikeeper April 27, 2021 12:21 PM BST
Colreevy might run better than expected, its in foal.
Seems to improve them a bit.
Report workrider April 27, 2021 12:35 PM BST
It certainly does Koi, but I would never run a mare of mine in foal over fences or hurdles , hopefully she gets round safely..
Report workrider April 27, 2021 12:35 PM BST
It certainly does Koi, but I would never run a mare of mine in foal over fences or hurdles , hopefully she gets round safely..
Report glentoby April 27, 2021 12:44 PM BST
Have to agree with you workrider,Dawn Run springs to mind in going to the well once too often,the Mullins family were against running her but the greedy owner ruled against them,we know what happened there.
Report howard April 27, 2021 1:19 PM BST
Not going to be a real stamina test. EA should win easy.
Report LoyalHoncho April 27, 2021 3:30 PM BST
Good luck to Colreevy then.  Come back safe.
Report SlippyBlue April 27, 2021 3:57 PM BST
It's a bit of a head scratcher this contest but I'm siding with Monkfish just about, should be a great race to watch.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk April 27, 2021 4:24 PM BST
Fancy EA but only betting if he behaves in the prelims
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! April 27, 2021 4:27 PM BST
Ground looks pretty GOOD

Grin
Report shoodacoodadidnt April 27, 2021 6:29 PM BST
Envoi Allen for me
Report casemoney April 27, 2021 6:37 PM BST
Blew them away Shocked
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk April 27, 2021 6:37 PM BST
2 bubbles well and truly burst
wd coolreevy backers Grin
Report england_v_south_afri April 27, 2021 6:37 PM BST
WD Colreevy !!!Excited
Report Ibrahima Sonko April 27, 2021 6:38 PM BST
Fancy retiring a gold cup horse.
Report 11kv April 27, 2021 6:38 PM BST
Envoi been fooked up with all the turmoil sad to see it pu
Report CustomCut April 27, 2021 6:38 PM BST
They might have to do something about the mares allowance.
Report acey deucy April 27, 2021 6:38 PM BST
We was fooled for a while.LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report 1st time poster April 27, 2021 6:39 PM BST
mare batters 3 fences and gags up against 2 reincarnations of arkle
Report alfee April 27, 2021 6:39 PM BST
Nice !Cool
Report casemoney April 27, 2021 6:40 PM BST
Wasnt stopping Either   Shocked
Report LoyalHoncho April 27, 2021 6:40 PM BST
Oi!  Oi!  Well done Colreevy.  Monkfish is very classy but is often a ponderous jumper.  Reportedly getting back injections in advance of this race?  Anyone?
Report casemoney April 27, 2021 6:43 PM BST
Reevy broke into the carrot Shed
Report knoxville April 27, 2021 6:44 PM BST
great to see even if it was another mullins winner
Report MJK April 27, 2021 6:45 PM BST
Best horse won on the day. Willie beforehand said this was the best horse in the race on ratings. Monkfish ran a good race to be fair. Envoi Allen two out of two disappointments since changing stables and surroundings.
Report GoBallistic April 27, 2021 6:48 PM BST
Maybe the real Envoi Allen is still at Elliott's
Report differentdrum April 27, 2021 6:48 PM BST
Townend riding to beat Envoi Allen gave the leader too much rope. Speed track you don't want to give too much ground away on a stayer, particularly on one who might throw in a mistake. Horse and rider looked shaky at Cheltenham and again today. Chances are she would have made more mistakes had she been taken on. Once they turned in Townend seemed to give up very quickly.
Report blunder April 27, 2021 6:49 PM BST
Well done LoyalHoncho and The Dragon.
Report 1st time poster April 27, 2021 6:52 PM BST
so if you listen to mullins/booby that means elly may is best chaser at mullins barn
Report differentdrum April 27, 2021 6:58 PM BST
Monkfish was 4/1 ante post Gold Cup favourite. He was a massive disappointment. If Mullins thought the winner was that good how come he hasn't been more adventurous with her and more to the point how come she only fell over the line at Cheltenham? She beat Shattered Love three lengths? This looks like it was a dart throw on her last run.
Report LoyalHoncho April 27, 2021 7:00 PM BST
Thanks blunder.  You are named after my favourite ever greyhound.  Won me lots and lots of money back in the late seventies!
Report A_T April 27, 2021 7:21 PM BST
envoi gone
Report Anyska April 27, 2021 7:22 PM BST
clearly a black scar for envoi from his fall in cheltenham, he was deliberate jumping over the first mile but loosened out after. HDB will have him sorted next year. monkfish didnt lose much in defeat, still the one to beat in the gc imo
Report swiftynifty April 27, 2021 7:25 PM BST
Monkfish is finished. Mullins is moving on. In interview he's forgotten him already.
Report The Dragon April 27, 2021 7:32 PM BST
cheers blunder the ratings did if for me with the 7/1 price happy days
Report impossible123 April 27, 2021 7:38 PM BST
I think Envoi Allen may be another hyped horse like Samcro. He'd be a bit of a thinker too, and possibly fragile. Also, the idea to step-up to 3m having fallen at 2m 4f looked a step too far at this moment - he was a spent force with 3 fences to go.
Report glentoby April 27, 2021 7:45 PM BST
Why is Mullins training these donkeys when so many are so much better on here IYO?

e.g Thinker "Rodin".......fragile,black scar etc etc etc?
Report A_T April 27, 2021 7:50 PM BST
I'm very disappointed  - we were told these were 2 of the greatest chasers there's ever been - beaten by a pregnant girl
Report swiftynifty April 27, 2021 7:57 PM BST
Once the dust settles and Envoi's had a summer in a field, he may end up back in his old box.
Report punchestown April 27, 2021 8:46 PM BST
Envoi Allen too bad to be true today I feel,it never touched a twig over fences before the move and has clearly regressed. Samcro comparisons fair I think at this stage until we see what it goes like next season.

Monkfish ran its race I think and just wasn't good enough on the day.
Report Fashion Fever April 27, 2021 9:17 PM BST
worried about envoi ever since they said he had a wind op and gordon avoided Dublin festival
Report differentdrum April 27, 2021 9:38 PM BST
Just a word of praise for Mullins on the front end. One of best at bossing races from the front. He immediately won the tactical battle with Townend forcing Monkfish to do something he wasn't used to doing. For me it looked like the pressure got to Townend at Cheltenham and again today. When the mistake came it wasn't a massive surprise.
Report MJK April 27, 2021 9:59 PM BST
Townend wouldve known before the race the other one was gonna lead so cant see how it was a tactical battle to be honest.
Report BULLET TOOTH TONY April 27, 2021 10:13 PM BST
Monkfish doesnt quicken, if he is to win a gold cup, he has got to be ridden handy. a 4 runner race in which the winner was given an very easy lead is no pointer to next March. EA there is something wrong with that horse, moved up and then looked like there was nothing left very quickly, could've got 3rd prize money, but clearly something had gone amiss
Report strontium April 27, 2021 10:15 PM BST
Monkfish looked like he's had a long, hard season. Mistake at the third last finished any chance today. Still expect him to be a major player for the Gold Cup, but not to do a tap before the DRF.
Report strontium April 27, 2021 10:16 PM BST
No chance EA goes back to Elliott. Jumps races are just a bit of fun for the owners who have a huge breeding business to look after.
Report acey deucy April 28, 2021 12:21 PM BST
Brilliant performance by Colreevy but i must admit i am horrified at the thought of running an in foal mare over Jumps that is just asking for trouble shirley and the sooner that is banned the better.
Report duffy April 28, 2021 1:39 PM BST
acey, good point that.
Report strontium April 28, 2021 1:46 PM BST
Is there any evidence that racing mares over jumps is particualy dangerous for them or their foal? Horses are pregant for around a year. In the wild, pregnant mares must be exposed to all sorts of dangers/conditions and are, presumably, pretty robust. Racing pregnant mares is one of those things that sounds like it might be bad, but I think one should ask for evidence before just accepting it.
Report acey deucy April 28, 2021 1:50 PM BST
Evidence?....Big No Brainer for me.
Report duffy April 28, 2021 1:59 PM BST
To state the obvious, the concern is because she might take a bad fall!!
Report swiftynifty April 28, 2021 2:09 PM BST
I guess she's only a few weeks in, but it doesn't sound right for a jumper.
Report strontium April 28, 2021 2:12 PM BST
Forming conclusions without evidence is indeed a "no brainer" Acey.

One can still ask how many mares have lost a foal because of an injury sustained in a jumps race. Wild horses live in some exceptionally tough conditions. A pregnant horse still needs to be able to escape predators. These are hardy animals.

I agree it would look bad if a pregnant mare were to fall in a race and lose her foal. I'd like to see some stats on how likely it is to happen when considering if they should be stopped from racing.
Report ashleigh April 28, 2021 2:13 PM BST
envoi allen to have a scan on a injury to a hind joint he picked up in yesterdays race.Sad
Report duffy April 28, 2021 2:18 PM BST
I suppose the difference in the wild to what we are talking about is that "we" know better and can intervene to protect the horse.

If you want to go down the in the wild route we might as well leave the Aintree fences alone, ad when the protestors kick off we can tell them that  in the wild they probably face worse.
Report Cork Langer April 28, 2021 2:27 PM BST
With regard to mares in foal taking part in NH races, I remember many moons ago Capt Neville Crump was asked about the risks in an interview and he was adamant that it was minimal because he believed that a maternal preservation took over and that mares made extra effort to look after themselves and their unborn foals.

Over many years there have been a number of mares that have shown improved form for being in foal and from memory I have not heard of any that have lost foals because of it, though given the topic in question it is unlikely that anyone would want to go out of their way to make others aware of such an event.
Report duffy April 28, 2021 2:35 PM BST
How many mares in foal have actually participated in chase races down the years? are there figures on it?
Report MJK April 28, 2021 2:50 PM BST
Are female jockeys obliged to stop riding as soon as they become pregnant? Of course they probably would anyhow but is there a rule that obliges them to?
Report duffy April 28, 2021 3:07 PM BST
I'll go further than probably, I will go out on a limb and commit to saying that they definitely would.Laugh
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