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15 Apr 21 15:36
Date Joined: 18 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 36,466 | Blogger: onlooker's blog
'For Horses Trained North of the River Trent, in a line drawn from ...  to .... '

So read the Race Conditions

Wondered if this ...


Was a watered-down replacement.
Pause Switch to Standard View Who remembers the - Northern Free...
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Report blackbarn April 15, 2021 4:45 PM BST
Used to be a Newcastle, I think
Report ribero1 April 15, 2021 4:46 PM BST
Hi onlooker,Northern free handicap used to be run at Newcastle,quite often on Easter saturday I think,remember getting a tip for the winner in the 70's Apple King trained by Eric Collingwood,about 74 I would guess.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves April 15, 2021 4:49 PM BST
Mick Easterby won the Northern one with Tudor Jig and the Newmarket one with Mrs McCardy in '77.
Report steerforth April 15, 2021 6:11 PM BST
It was always the real curtain raiser on the new season for me. Remember backing Don many years ago (at Newcastle). Bill Watts/Eddie Hide, I think - could be wrong.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 April 15, 2021 6:48 PM BST
I remember when it was run at Manchester and the jockeys wore flat caps, spurs and smoked Woodbines at the start.
Report onlooker April 15, 2021 7:08 PM BST
^ You forgot the Wellies - DIFFERENT GRAY.

Speaking of MANCHESTER .

I saw that a horse called LATIN LOVER ran in Ireland, yesterday

The Name LATIN LOVER - Jockey Doug Smith - and Manchester - sprung immediately to mind.

I will have to look up why
Report verbotene liebe April 15, 2021 7:19 PM BST
Bonol won it in the Sea Pigeon colours.
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 April 15, 2021 7:33 PM BST

I recently went past where the old course was, it's a right sh1thole now. Thankfully I am not old enough to remember what it was like when they were racing there.
Report onlooker April 15, 2021 7:41 PM BST
^  "it's a right sh1thole now."

What else can you expect ... When the Stands have been turned into Student Accommodation  Sad
Report roadrunner46 April 15, 2021 8:15 PM BST
im going to get a RR46 graphic hoodie made up, so  when hit the racetrack , you can all buy me a drink, see you at goodwood festival 2021
Report ged April 16, 2021 12:30 PM BST
The 2000 Guineas winner (rated the worst ever) was 4th in it in 1961, with 8-12. His stable companion (both trained in Scotland) carried 9-0. Le Garcon D'Or was unplaced with 7-13.
Report howard April 16, 2021 1:13 PM BST
was that run at Manchester ged ?
Report lead on April 16, 2021 1:22 PM BST
I think I backed Bradamante trained by Denys Smith in the race..1979?..cant't remember if he was 1st or 2nd
Report ged April 16, 2021 1:57 PM BST
howard - no, it was at Newcastle, Easter Monday. I'm not sure about the years before that. There was no equivalent race on the 1960 Easter Monday card at Newcastle. There were Northern Free handicaps run at Stockton during WW2, but racing was regionalised then, so those years would have been exceptional.
Report differentdrum April 17, 2021 10:57 AM BST
What was the race that High Top and Waterloo ran in before they won both Guineas?
Report howard April 17, 2021 11:03 AM BST
thanks ged
Report ribero1 April 17, 2021 11:03 AM BST
Thirsk classic trial DD.
Report ribero1 April 17, 2021 11:05 AM BST
Lead on,I remember Bradamante winning at the Lincoln meeting the year after as Topper Robson told me to back it,got 9/2 think it started a bit shorter?
Report second again April 17, 2021 11:11 AM BST
One Easter Monday I backed a Snowy Wainwright winner of the Northern Free Handicap,I cannot remember its name.I can remember the Thirsk Classic Trial,it was part of the ITV 7 for a few years.
Report onlooker April 17, 2021 1:31 PM BST
Just picked up a - Horses in Training - for 1982 - to confirm what I already thought.

The NORTHERN FREE HANDICAP was printed in the back of the book - along with the Free Handicap (and other International Classifications).

The Conditions were ...

Northern Free Handicap - Newcastle - April 12

For two-year-olds of 1981 which have been trained and were in training on Oct 1st North of the Trent (represented by a straight line drawn from Yarmouth in the East through Peterborough to Aberystwyth in the West)

Full Extent    10.0
Bright View    9-13
Fearless Lad   9-13
Rebellino      9-10
Report differentdrum April 17, 2021 1:42 PM BST
Thanks Ribero.

What happened to that race? Hard to believe that was only year they attracted decent runners.

In those days we also had the 1000 and 2000 Guineas Trials at Ascot. Remember Grey Mirage won the 2000 version around that time. Were they on the straight course?
Report steerforth April 17, 2021 7:09 PM BST

Apr 17, 2021 -- 5:11AM, second again wrote:

One Easter Monday I backed a Snowy Wainwright winner of the Northern Free Handicap,I cannot remember its name.I can remember the Thirsk Classic Trial,it was part of the ITV 7 for a few years.

Dunmurry Boy 1976?
I was there to back Mofida in the first that day.

Report ged April 17, 2021 11:34 PM BST
Manchester used to have a meeting on Easter Monday before WW2, but it was an all-jumps meeting. The feature race was the Lancashire Chase (now run as the Betfair Chase at Haydock) over three and a half miles. Poethlyn won it in 1918 and 1919, each time following a few weeks after winning the Grand National. In 1919, he carried 12-7 at Aintree, and 12-9 at Manchester.
Report second again April 18, 2021 8:20 AM BST
Steerforth,that was the one I think It was only about 5/2 but I was pleased that it won.
Report raspberrybottom April 18, 2021 8:30 AM BST
Did a horse called K-Battery win it once back in the 80's?

Can't quite remember jockey/trainer.

Anyone know?
Report second again April 18, 2021 8:36 AM BST
Elsey trained K-Battery I do not know if he won it ,I remember he won the Lincoln.
Report raspberrybottom April 18, 2021 8:52 AM BST
Ta for that, second Happy

Must have mixed the two races up!
Report second again April 18, 2021 8:55 AM BST
He may have won it I think he won a few races,I just cant remember what ones.Laugh
Report blackbarn April 18, 2021 8:57 AM BST
raspberry - K Battery did win a couple of handicaps at Newcastle as a 3yo so you weren't far out.
Report ali1959 April 18, 2021 9:41 AM BST
Steerforth, was Mofida a 2 year old that won a lot of races for Barry Hills?
Report screaming from beneaththewaves April 18, 2021 9:56 AM BST
Yes. Not that well bred, but one of her daughters was Zaizafon, who never ran but did produce Zafonic and Zamindar.
Report steerforth April 18, 2021 10:46 AM BST

Apr 18, 2021 -- 3:41AM, ali1959 wrote:

Steerforth, was Mofida a 2 year old that won a lot of races for Barry Hills?

Yes that's right Ali - she won her maiden that day at Newcastle and went on to be quite smart. She was the second dam of Zafonic.

Report steerforth April 18, 2021 10:54 AM BST
Also second dam of Elmaamul, Reams Of Verse and Midday, and was a foundation mare for Juddmonte.
Report differentdrum May 1, 2021 12:40 PM BST
I see the Thirsk Classic Trial mentioned above was the quiz question on ITV Racing this morning. What a shame they appear to have stopped showing anything more than 2 seconds of these old clips. The full races would be more interesting than most races these days.
Report differentdrum May 1, 2021 12:55 PM BST
Both today's clips are rare because they don't even appear on You Tube.
Report steerforth May 1, 2021 3:56 PM BST
I know I'm a penantic tw@t - but there's o such thing as a rare clip or a rare photograph. They are all unique. It should be "rarely seen". (One of my pet hate phrases.
Report verbotene liebe May 2, 2021 7:29 PM BST
Great to see Mofida being remembered. I saw her racing a couple of times when she was with her original owner Khalifa Sasi, both times at Haydock during 1977. Firstly in May when she was third to Mandrake Major in the Gus Demmy, on the same day that the Cecil/ Joel full brother to Royal Palace, Owen Jones won the Cecil Frail Handicap ridden by the Aussie butcher with the whip Mal Johnston who was over on a working holiday, and the second time on the day Busaca won the Lancashire Oaks and Mint the Old Newton Cup. Mofida won the opening Sporting Chronicle Handicap, after a head for head duel over the final furlong with a Ron Mason trained animal called Crimson Silk. That was the day that Borg won the Wimbledon final after losing the first two sets to Roscoe Tanner. Mofida later sold to Sangster then as said, ended up with Juddmonte and made a considerable impact as part of their expanding bloodstock empire.
Report Gordon63 May 3, 2021 7:54 AM BST
full extent was very decent horse trained by steve norton and ridden by john lowe, probably one of the top teams in the North at the time before the mighty Jack Berry/John Carroll combination dominated, especially with 2yos of course

the thirsk classic trial was sponsored by british rail (or an offshoot?) for some years - can't imagine that nowadays!!

all these provincial listed/trials races have been significantly downgraded over the years, combination of prize money, fixture congestion on weekends, different approach to training i.e. better horses run less often (oh for the days of horage and provideo and timeless times and soba!!) thankfully my local Hamilton has stemmed the tide and the Glasgow Stakes continues to offer good prize money and attract very decent winners/runners including Postponed, Defoe and Subjectivist in recent years
Report ged May 3, 2021 10:00 AM BST
I was also at that Haydock meeting where Mofida ran behind Mandrake Major, but I only remember the winner. I also backed Harry Wragg's Qualuz on that card (don't know why) which won a very non-descript race later on the card. Henry Candy's Centrocon in the Barnett colours trotted up in a 2-runner race later on. She became the dam of Time Charter. Owen Jones was only a half-brother to Royal Palace.
Report steerforth May 3, 2021 12:04 PM BST
I wonder which of today's runners will be talked about in similar vein in 45 years. I think there's a natural tendency to see the past as a better place than the present, yet the blood lines and memories continue to evolve.
My biggest worry is that we still have a recognisable sport by then. There would have been oldies in 1977 looking back fondly to their past, but the numbers look like being very much reduced by the second half of this century.
Report workrider May 3, 2021 12:42 PM BST
Gordon , a little story about Steve Norton , I was on a racing holiday in 1991 and as staying over night in Carlisle before heading to the Perth April meeting that year , I was having dinner in a hotel when in walks Steve and one of his owners and they were placed at the table next to mine . I got into conversation with them and was informed that they were hoping to win a race the next day after a few hours racing talk they departed , next day I went to the races and backed this horse I can't even remember its name at 11/2 it finished down the field and I don't think it ever won a race after. So Mr Norton went down the scale in my estimation very quickly...Grin
Report verbotene liebe May 3, 2021 1:41 PM BST
Ged, yes I  stand corrected, just checked the Timeform Annual for that year, Owen Jones by Tudor Melody, Royal Palace by Ballymoss. Had only  previously checked Raceform as for some reason I thought the Mofida/Crimson Silk prolonged duel was on Cecil Frail day. What I do remember about that week is that the Newmarket man in the Racing & Football Outlook was all over Owen Jones saying he been working the house down.

Thought it was harsh on Candy when the Barnett's stopped using him, and apart from Pure Grain there has been no real stars since though the Maktoums bought into the blood and got Zinaad who sired Kazzia for them. Candy generally tends to hold on to his owners - Major Wyatt must be absolutely ancient.

Steerforth - I would say ' reduced'. is optimistic, the world is changing so fast I really do fear for the future of the sport.
Report jimnast May 3, 2021 8:45 PM BST
salisbury also had trials for the 1,000 and 2,000 guineas on a saturday afternoon ,the day steve cauthen rode his first uk winner was that day,as it happens that day tap on wood was 4th in the 2,000 guineas trial ,then ran at thirsk in what was then called the timeform racecard stakes he beat abbeydale that day, who went on to finish 2nd in the 1,000 two days later tap on wood beat the great kris in the 2,000 ridden by steve cauthen.

you would have to think that was the best race ever staged at thirsk although fahr did win the thirsk hunt cup there a few years ago.
Report differentdrum May 3, 2021 10:42 PM BST
It clearly wouldn't have been better than a race that produced two Guineas winners. Waterloo was beaten six lengths by High Top, but won at least four Group races. How many did Abbeydale win?
Report jimnast May 4, 2021 8:47 AM BST
i had forgotten that race
Report brians May 4, 2021 10:01 AM BST
My dad took me to Manchester once when I was 7 around 1957. I remember a very very long straight , to my eyes then, and the stands choc a bloc with flat capped chaps all smoking something. You could hardly see the race through the nicotine fog!
The atmosphere ( not literally ) was great though and as the horses came into the last furlong the din was incredible. The stands were decrepit and dark , all standing of course, so I had to sit on my dads shoulders. Much to the chagrin of those punters behind. Tic Tac men all over the place, lots of vicars for some odd reason, wearing their dog collars ( even odder ) I used to go down after every race to pick up the betting cards , all different with coloured numbers and mottos , just to check if anyone had thrown a winner away. ( most people wrote the horse and stake on the blank back. ) It was chaos when a horse got objected too as all the kids, and adults , scrambled for thrown away cards on potential winners ! Great memories, we shall never see the like again.
Report workrider May 4, 2021 10:07 AM BST
Lovely story Brians...
Report brians May 4, 2021 11:23 AM BST
Cheers. Workrider.
Report ged May 4, 2021 12:31 PM BST
Back to the Barnetts for a moment. The Athasi Stakes was run at the Curragh yesterday. That race is named after the mare Athasi, who was bought by David Barnett in the early 1920s and was the foundation mare for most of the family's good horses of more recent years. The Barnetts were originally grain merchants, and several of her foals were given Spanish names for grains - Trigo (who won the 1929 Derby and St Leger) = corn; Harina (= flour), Avena (= oats), Centeno (= rye), Choclo (= sweetcorn), and Grano (= grain). Her first good offspring though was Athford, who won the 1929 Doncaster Cup, and rather disappointingly, the Barnett famiy re-used that name for a 1976 full-brother to Centrocon and Nicholas Bill. He wasn't as good as his earlier namesake, but was good enough to be 3rd in the 1980 Cesarewitch, and had Athasi as his 5th dam, via Harina.
Report workrider May 4, 2021 12:39 PM BST
Very interesting Ged, its always good to read those kind of stories and the people behind them .
Report verbotene liebe May 4, 2021 7:05 PM BST
Agree, very interesting. I remember them from 1975 onwards, but did not know the family bred a Derby winner. The traditional owner breeders who would run a manageable sized but successful operation, seem to be few and far between nowadays. Peter Walwyn use to have a mix of successful owner breeders, buy at the sales owners, and owners who were roughly 50-50, mixing in the two. Freeman, Howard De Walden, McCalmont ( race in family name at Gowran tomorrow) Dr Vittadini, Niarchos -  and the Hue- Williams family who had Russian roots and are ancestors of Venetia. And Busaca was owned by a Countess Esterhazy who was Hungarian though, I know little else about her. So much more of a pleasing sport when the jam was spread wider.
Report Gordon63 May 4, 2021 7:53 PM BST
Countess Esterhazy - of the vampire family
Report ged May 5, 2021 9:50 AM BST
Vera Hue-Williams was born Vera Sklarevskia, and fled the Russian revolution when she was 18 with her mother and sister. She had 4 husbands - George Owen (Britsh diplomat, ended in divorce), Walter Cottingham, of Berger paints (died 1936), Thomas Lilley, of Lilley & Skinner, (died 1959), and lastly Colonel Roger Hue-Williams (died 1987). As Vera Lilley, she owned Aurelius, who won the St Leger and went close to winning the KG&QE; he proved almost infertile at stud, so was gelded and returned to racing, finishing 2nd in the Champion Hurdle, though was DQ'd for interference. There was a filly named after her, Vera Lilley, than ran in Ireland a few years ago - wasn't up to much, but she's produced Lil Grey who ran in the Cheveley Park in 2019.

Countess Esterházy was/is (I think perhaps she's still around) the daughter of Etti Plesch (an Austro-Hungarian countess, who owned Derby winners Psidium and Henbit) and Count Tamás Esterházy de Galántha. Her given names were Marie-Anna Berta Felicie Johanna Ghislaine Theodora Huberta Georgina Helene Genoveva, but she's known as Bunny, or Countess Bunny.
Report Gordon63 May 5, 2021 10:24 AM BST
bet she has a few stories to tell...great work Inspector Ged
Report differentdrum May 5, 2021 11:55 AM BST
Is it correct that she owned Yaroslav and her husband owned the likes of Altesse Royale and Rock Roi?
Report ged May 5, 2021 12:42 PM BST
Yes, she owned Yaroslav. He made his debut in the Washington Singer, and beat High Top, who'd won his only race at that point. High Top went off 8/11, Yaroslav 8/1. (High Line won the Geoffrey Freer earlier on the card - he was the Barnett-owned horse who sired Centrocon, Nicholas Bill and Athford (all out of Centro), and sired 4 successive winners on the Wednesday of the 1980 Ebor meeting, including the B&H (Master Willie), and Yorkshire Oaks).

Yaroslav was out of Bleu Azur who was an outstanding broodmare owned by the Hue-Williamses. She also produced the sisters Altesse Royale and Royal Saint, and also Imperial Prince. Altesse and Imperial ran in Roger's colours (as did Rock Roi), Royal Saint in Vera's. Vera's English Prince beat her husband's Imperial Prince in the Irish Derby, and was probably the best 3yo middle distance colt in Britain and Ireland at that point, but he didn't stand training.
Report ged May 5, 2021 12:44 PM BST
Report screaming from beneaththewaves May 5, 2021 1:18 PM BST
After the dog show in a nearby field in which spectators overcome by fresh air and the beer tent kept falling asleep, there were a few drinks to be had by the side of Mr Walwyn's swimming pool. Walwyn himself appeared wearing trunks and, taking a running dive into the pool, he shouted, 'Thank you, English Prince.' It seems he shouts the same message every time he takes to the water. English Prince's Irish Derby victory paid for the pool.

- from Jeffrey Bernard's report on the Lambourn Lurcher Show of 1976
Report verbotene liebe May 5, 2021 6:57 PM BST
My first visit to York racecourse had links to Atlesse  Royal,  Countess Esterhazy, plus the Queen for good measure. It was Benson and Hedges Day 1977 when the Mrs Getty ( Jacqueline Riordan) owned Artaius was meant to stamp himself as the leading three year old in training after both The Minstrel and Blushing Groom had already been flown on one way tickets to Kentucky to prepare for stud careers, an equine herpes outbreak in the USA threatening to put the stops on horses flying in and out. As it turned out, Artaius fluffed his lines but 24 hours later a certain Alleged made himself known in the Voltigeur.

Anyway, the opening Acomb Stakes saw the introduction of a Walwyn/ Hue Williams. Mill Reef - Atlesse Royal colt named Magnitude. He was forecast favourite in all the morning papers but drifted on course, finished well beaten and turned out to be very ordinary. Another also ran making his debut in the race was a full brother to the 75 Oaks winner Juliette Marny. He would be the following  year's Leger winner Julio Mariner. The race was won by the Queen's Tartan Pimpernel, and the monarch was at the course that day ( walked across the lawn infront of the stands - with her entourage of course) to see Dunfermline run in the Yorkshire Oaks, in which she finished third behind the Countess's Busaca. -  had no idea she was Madame Plesch's daughter.

In one of my scrap books I have a story during the build up to the 1976 Derby where someone had obtained 1000/1 about a Hue Williams/ Walwyn colt called Illustrious Prince to win the race when he was still a yearling - no doubt spurred on by the dam being a sister to Atlesse  Royal. As things turned out he finished well down the field but what I find incredible about that race is that the Walwyn first string, Oats, who finished third, would be the last animal he would train to make the frame in the race - and this just a year after Grundy!  Think that's testament both to how quickly the yard slid from the very top tier allied to how widely spread the quality animals were back then.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves May 5, 2021 7:25 PM BST
I always knew the Welsh were pretty moderate and now it has been confirmed by the behaviour of Dai Davies, the P.A. scribbler. At Goodwood recently he forgot his press badge and made a disgusting scene at the gate, insulting officials and then giving the first random number that came into his tiny Welsh head. As bad luck would have it, it was the number of the kind and gentle Geoffrey Hamlyn's badge. Officials reported the incident to the secretary who then summoned the innocent Mr Hamlyn. Even after the incident had been sorted out the ghastly Davies still managed to get the second leg of his double up. Addressing Peter Walwyn with a fatuous inquiry he was told, "That's the most stupid bloody question I've ever been asked."

Colonel Mad, Private Eye 1977
Report ribero1 May 5, 2021 8:16 PM BST
Used to love Bernard,especially Colonel Mad.
Report Gordon63 May 5, 2021 8:33 PM BST
peter walwyn and pat eddery glory spell was coming to an end in my formative punting years but I do remember the sun published a guide to the flat season and it said to always back walwyn/eddery in ascot 2yo races (particularly one which name escapes me but may even have been renamed after walwyn in later years prior to the salisbury race) - anyways I took the advice and right enough the horse (again name escapes me!) won more than paying for the price of the guide - happy days!! they also said to back all the favourites at windsor evening meeting ahead of royal ascot, I've (almost!) religiously done this through the years and a couple of times have had 5 of 6 or 5 of 7, nostalgia huh they don't make it like they used to!
Report Gordon63 May 5, 2021 8:49 PM BST
it was the crocker bulteel on KG day - would have been from 75 to 79 ish
Report verbotene liebe May 5, 2021 9:12 PM BST
May originally have been called the Granville, as when Grundy won it. Think Walwyn  tended always to try and run one he thought a bit of in it but  as the yard declined he was not spoily for choice - in later years he ran a horse in,whatever race it was called then, called I Bin Xaidoon of the Maktoums who ended up in one of the big Aintree novice hurdles for Jenny Pitman, if memory serves.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves May 5, 2021 10:09 PM BST
I Bin Zaidoon (14/1) beat Henderson's River Ceiriog (6/5 fav) at Aintree. River Ceiriog had previously won the Supreme Novices' at 40/1, but got outbattled by Pitman's horse at Aintree.

I Bin Zaidoon had won a couple of other novices' hurdles that season, including first time out at Ludlow at 8/11 on 6 Feb. 1986. It was the last race of the day, and the snow was already falling. Eddie Fremantle remembered returning to the station with John Pegley, who gloomily forecast that there would be no more racing for a month.

"It was the only thing he got right that whole day," said Fremantle. There was no more racing in Britain until 5 March, at Catterick.

Those were the days.
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