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05 Mar 21 17:40
Date Joined: 03 Jan 01
| Topic/replies: 10,879 | Blogger: jimnast's blog
both had big adverts in the sporting life on the opening day of the 1993 cheltenham festival

ready racing they were giving away a £25 free bet if you opened an account perhaps they were the first to offer that sort of thing.

las vegas bookmakers they were 1/3rd the odds and only %5 tax all singles
Pause Switch to Standard View anybody remember these bookmakers
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Report loper March 9, 2021 10:01 PM GMT
As was Devon & Exeter. 3 sides of a square. But the point about Leicester was unlike the others they weren't up against a natural barrier, they had loads of space in which to spread out but chose not to.

As a punter you had to wrestle your way in through the tightly knit circle! The last thing they wanted was someone having a decent bet!
Report jimnast March 9, 2021 10:03 PM GMT
its a long time since anybody wrestled to get a bet at leicester.
Report sparrow March 9, 2021 10:05 PM GMT
Over the blower they would say "Nothing doing at Lingfield" or wherever.
Report ronnie rails March 9, 2021 10:07 PM GMT

its also a long time since a punter flew in by helicopter

Report jimnast March 9, 2021 10:09 PM GMT
the tipster richard flood started using helicopters to fly into these places.
Report The Knight March 9, 2021 10:20 PM GMT
At Newmarket for the Craven meeting in 1988, I was talking to a guy called Lester (I worked with him in IT at Natwest) who was the son of the Coral's main rep, Ralph.

Suddenly, Ralph ran by frantically just as all hell broke loose on the rails.

After the race, I was talking to Lester again, this time with his father. They said that City Index had tried to suddenly blow £10k back but 'not how it is usually done'.

I did not want to appear ignorant and so didn't ask what they meant but a lot of the rails bookies were livid and Ralph said 'this is the beginning of the end if the city boys want to come in and start behaving like that'.

To this day, I still don't know what City could have done so wrong. Anyone on here have any idea?
Report stewarty b March 9, 2021 11:50 PM GMT
granville was the first book to price up and he goes 5/1 the three dog

young lad walks up and says £1500 to £300 trap 3

granville looks at him and says your not old enough son sorry.

wipes his board and prices the race up again and puts the 3 dog up at evens

young lad walks up and says even £300

granville says now your old enough son
Report kennethturrell1 March 10, 2021 6:12 AM GMT
that was the general idea that not many knew who was lumping on what.

When we collected the winnings for Anhootisanowl for example the shops I put the small £10 bets on were all in Portsmouth but the winnings were collected by some other team member. Just had to wrap the  bettng slip round
a piece of paper with shop address on . Some of us had local maps with the shops highlighted and even showed in a highlight pen the best route around towns we hardly knew.

Although there was a lot of trust involved we still had to save the losing betting slips as now and again have to  hand them over as proof not just kept any stake money and hope the horse lost!

We were actually told for example the horse is called xxx and you need to get £500 on the lowest price you can get is this and dont put the first bet on until 11.00 for example.

A well run set up.
Report flukes March 10, 2021 7:50 AM GMT
Great thread this as was the previous one

I remember Tom Fruit back in the day, RIP. Does anybody remember a bookie called Stute Pinnington at the likes of Haydock and possibly Uttoxeter?
Report HistoricWarwick March 10, 2021 11:08 AM GMT
Isn't that 'Pinno'?  If so he is still around - doesn't have a rail at Cheltenham?
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 11:14 AM GMT
Surprised nobody has mentioned Freddie Williams,first telephone account I had,direct to himself,lovely man.
Report HGS March 10, 2021 11:15 AM GMT
flukes. Not Tom Fruit who bet without at Coventry dogs?
Report loper March 10, 2021 12:57 PM GMT

You must be talking about morning prices.

Not sure who started it, but in the late 80s the Big 4 would price up the most competitive h'caps of the day from 10am onwards, mostly a maximum of 4 races, although this could and would be expanded on Saturdays.

I thought you were referring to all races on the card, 90% of which were not priced up until just before the off so no one could go around the shops in the morning taking prices. You could only bet at SP.
Report parispike March 10, 2021 1:27 PM GMT
Wasn't it **** and Luvbet who started the "overnights"?
Report parispike March 10, 2021 1:29 PM GMT
Report loper March 10, 2021 1:40 PM GMT
Are you thinking about the pricing up of every race in the morning, Parispike, which happened around 1999?
Report parispike March 10, 2021 1:41 PM GMT
That's very possible, loper.
Report sparrow March 10, 2021 1:57 PM GMT
Worst thing that ever happened with the bookmakers cards being marked for peanuts.
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND March 10, 2021 2:04 PM GMT
Used to like Tony Haywoods/Haywards. They owned a good horse back in the 90s.  Quick to have non smoking bookies and would stand a good bet, in clean shops.
Not sure if they are still going, new them in the Woodford Green area. Remember have a good ante post bet there, every gracious when it came up.
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND March 10, 2021 2:05 PM GMT
^^ hate typos from phone ^^
Report seaserpent March 10, 2021 2:09 PM GMT
When I was a child in the late seventies and early eighties my dad used to take me into David Pipes bookies down in Somerset in the days before pictures, used to just have the audios, sawdust on the floor and all that LOL
Report Tostidog March 10, 2021 2:19 PM GMT
Great thread.

How about Napoleons Racing?

Did Sunderlands take over Guntrips?
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 2:25 PM GMT
some independents were doing morning prices for all races as far back as the late 80s early 90s angus hill from worcester did the tissue for some racecourse books and some independents ,i use to deal with a firm from hyde which is on the outskirts of manchester called onward pools the prices were available around 9am including maidens and sellers.
Report loper March 10, 2021 3:02 PM GMT
Yes, Jimnast, a few, very few Indies did price up races scrawled on the SL Betting Shop Edition pull out.

But how much were they prepared to lay?
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 3:19 PM GMT
onward layed  fair bets loper they adjusted there prices as they saw money ,they were a good firm ,
Report kennethturrell1 March 10, 2021 3:46 PM GMT
I am reffering to a few Irish firms that use to fax over prices to account customers mainly the prices were ones from morning trade papers.

They priced up most races knowing they would get ther card marked as it were.

This occured every day but often there were days when no real business was done.

There were mainly two Irish firms offering the fax service.

This avoided the main firms knowing what trainers fancied a horse they were involved with so they were in the dark as it were. As Jimnast mentions above this was going on around 1985 .

Probably the best at it was a now retired Lambourn trainer and a retired Italian Newmarket trainer.

One day after putting bets on in and around Worthing went to Brighton races and a certain lady Newmarket trainer had one of hers carrying the Irish money and was involved in a photo finish and the strain on her not knowing if she had won or not caused her to faint once the tannoy said her horse had won.

But imagine the same trainer trying to get a few hundred on one of her runners on course at a track such as Brighton with generally a weak betting market she would get knock back after knock back
Report loper March 10, 2021 3:48 PM GMT
I can remember back in the early 90s my local bookie who I was friendly with was an Indie. I would call in around 10am on my way to the races and look at his early prices for the early bird races. These prices were industry wide and visible for all to see on Teletext and Ceefax.

He got his from a bigger firm in the Reading area who he used when he needed to hedge his liabilities. I would say to my mate I want to take such and such a price for X amount. He would phone this hedging agent while I was there and get on what he could. I'd happily drive on to the racecourse knowing I had the first bet in the bin.

This lasted less than a month. Not only did his hedging agent stop my mate taking his early prices he closed his account entirely.

He'd done me a favour and I had now phucked up his business!
Report loper March 10, 2021 4:02 PM GMT

many trainers had no lose accounts with certain bookmakers. A trainer I once knew when he was based in East Isley was one of those. 

His bookmaker was the vain son of a high profile independent with the same Christian name. I opened an account with him one day at Cheltenham when I had a bet with him on the rails and he didn't have the readies to pay me on the spot.

within 5 weeks he wrote to me apologising that he could no longer accept my business!

30 years later he claims to be one of the world's biggest bookies who will take on anyone, as he sits there smirking in his oak paneled office showing off his permatan.
Report The Knight March 10, 2021 4:12 PM GMT
Alien Sex Fiend,

I think it was Tony Haywood who owned a grey hurdler that landed a sizeable gamble for him and others when it won the big handicap hurdle race at Newbury in February 1990 or 1991. I am sure the horse was called 'Grey' something or other.

Race is now called the Betfair hurdle but can't remember what it was called back then.

I worked with a guy who was a good customer in the Haywood shop and one of the regulars who was told early on about the horse being laid out for the race. This guy told me, knowing I was a good punter, but I ignored the advice and could have kicked myself when the horse won!

A sad end to the tale, though. This guy later left the company we worked at for disciplinary reasons and I had to clear out his personal stuff from his desk. In there, I found a photo of the horse with £1,000 written across it - this being the amount he'd won on his ante-post bets. It made me feel sad to have seen him leave because the reasons for it were a little dubious, to say the least!
Report loper March 10, 2021 4:15 PM GMT
Grey Salute.
Report penzance March 10, 2021 4:22 PM GMT
Grey Salute?
Report loper March 10, 2021 4:31 PM GMT
Obviously it was and still is to some of us The Schweppes. Was probably the Tote Gold Trophy in those days.

I backed Vicario De Bray as soon as the weights came out at 16/1.

The weather dramatically changed and it didn't rain for a month, the race on the 2nd Saturday in February starting on Good to firm, which suited Grey Salute but not Vicario de Bray. Despite this, in a very small field, he started at 4/7 and came 2nd to Grey Salute. My best value ante post bet ever went down the drain during one of my worst ever runs. Boy, did I need him to win!
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 4:35 PM GMT
i remember him been backed of the boards one friday afternoon at haydock loper january 88 i think ,he didnt forget to win,returned there a few years later and won the champion hurdle trial.
Report penzance March 10, 2021 4:38 PM GMT
was Vicario De Brey Jonjo's?
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 4:39 PM GMT
by the way loper the 3rd in the tote gold trophy that year had won the 88 county hurdle the winner went on to win the chester cup.
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 4:40 PM GMT
yes penzance orange and white colures .
Report penzance March 10, 2021 4:45 PM GMT
he was quite hyped up,if I remember.
Report loper March 10, 2021 4:46 PM GMT
Yes Jimnast,

as I recall, I loved him as an individual and thought he was potentially well h'capped. Having backed him he only went and won the Champion Trial Hurdle at Haydock and his price went through the floor. The problem was that he needed soft ground, but  he was bumped up massively by the h'capper after Haydock and had stones in hand at Newbury so I wrongly thought he would get away with it. Grey Salute loved the ground.

The field was only 7 runners, I think, a combination of the fast ground conditions and very few wanting to take on VDB at the weights.
Report loper March 10, 2021 4:47 PM GMT
Cant remember who was 3rd?
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 4:58 PM GMT
cashew king
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 5:01 PM GMT
it was a very small field for that race loper cant remember how many,i do remember to listening to the race at uttoxeter.
Report loper March 10, 2021 5:08 PM GMT
It was marmalade sandwiches for the next month for me, Jimnast!
Report ribero1 March 10, 2021 7:27 PM GMT
Loper,are you saying the bookmaker had same christian name as his father or the same as the trainer?
Report ronnie rails March 10, 2021 7:35 PM GMT

I would ask for long odds the bookmaker stands behind you at York

Report glentoby March 10, 2021 7:41 PM GMT
84 Schweppes,I was at Greenham Common and went that day,had a pis& up with Freddie Starr in the Starting Gate pub,he had a runner that day but cannot for the life of me remember the name? If memory serves his horse and the winner suffered bad gashes to legs,the winner off fore?
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 8:45 PM GMT
davros if your still around front page of the sporting life on tuesday august 6th 1996 was when the frontline story broke in the papers.

oor wullie the tipping line they had which i could not remember the name was brats

glen arthur prince was tabor
Report ronnie rails March 10, 2021 8:59 PM GMT

re my  post regarding helicopters and Leicester racecourse the former hairdresser  was not happy with your pal Gal.

hope you are well

Report glentoby March 10, 2021 8:59 PM GMT
A brilliant thread Jimnast and one that proves that old heads have no need to tell lies,the truth is more often stranger than fiction and btw more entertaining?
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 9:01 PM GMT
i only started it glen as there was to much drones,covid and you know who cluttering up the forum.
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 9:02 PM GMT
dont know that story ronnie

hope your well
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:05 PM GMT
Ronnie,I hope you have no personal animosity towards choppers? My last army unit was 657 sqn AAC btw!!!

But joking apart,I flew from Fakenham to near Yarmouth courtesy of my friends at Bonds and Bristows.

Met my one and only Forumite in person and yet been portrayed as being in a bedsit,skint and desperate for attention despite providing more evidence than I can ever remember a single other Forumite being asked to provide.

Will you still lay me despite the doubters?Wink
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 March 10, 2021 9:08 PM GMT
I remember Maurice Lindsay @ Bolton dogs. Saw someone stick one on his chin one night!
Report ronnie rails March 10, 2021 9:10 PM GMT

many years ago Mr T had a runner in the last race at Leicester, on his way there his car broke down so he hired a helicopter.

He had 5 bets with Gal that day and they all got beat.

He was in the parade ring for the last and approached the rails to back his horse only to find Gal had gone home, the horse cantered in.
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 9:14 PM GMT
well done gal no doubt he would have dined well that night.
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 9:16 PM GMT
different gravy

he now runs rdt the company who do the technical side of the betting for racecourses and on course bookmakers.
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:17 PM GMT
Told this story before about an away bookie at Carlisle but worth repeating imo.First time there at an evening meeting and they had a big screen showing racing from Windsor.

Had a bet with the away bookie on Milton Bradley's at 33/1 at Windsor,long story short,it won a short head,Bookie went mad at Clerk,I tucked a few £s in the clerks top pocket.Saw them next day at Hamilton,clerk had told me they did not have enough money for petrol to get from Carlisle to Hamilton.
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 9:23 PM GMT
was his first name dennis ?
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:30 PM GMT
Not sure Jimnast tbh,a long time ago.However Barry will remember a wet and windy Monday shelling out £4k in cash at Windsor and moaning and swearing despite me trying to keep him dry with my very expensive brolly!!!BlushLove
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:35 PM GMT
Last race tbh but no reason to be so abusive,tipped him the wink and he got cheeky so had most of it with him,never did that to Skinto!!!

He is a nice man btw............Skinto I mean not Barry although tbf,Essex breeds them and he is better than most of them!!!

Doing well off the fried food and chips I am told.Cool
Report Regbutler March 10, 2021 9:35 PM GMT
Glentoby, ArmyAirCorps HQ at Middle Wallop nr Salisbury if I'm not mistaken?
Light blue berets?

Regarding early prices, I remember being allowed to take the Sporting Life sp forecast prices from the paper to a reasonable amount in the morning, in an independent.
Would have been 80s
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:36 PM GMT
Correct Reg you old bus driver!!!Wink
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:37 PM GMT
Sorry,are you now Inspector?
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:40 PM GMT
Is that you Varney,you old git?
Report Regbutler March 10, 2021 9:41 PM GMT
Cheers Glen, used to deliver to the Officers Mess across the road by the sports pitches if you know it?
Used to try and do it on a Wednesday afternoon so that I could take in part of a football match.
Report Regbutler March 10, 2021 9:42 PM GMT
Glen, I posted yesterday a thread entitled... I'm new on here... Explaining how I lost my former forum name
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:44 PM GMT
Only ever ate the cucumber sandwiches tbh,too busy converting from Scout and Gazelle to Lynx,the sandwiches for the cricket matches which I avoided.
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 9:48 PM GMT

Apologies for the photo Reg et al,it was another demand for truth,duly delivered!!!
Report handtorofe March 10, 2021 9:51 PM GMT
Screaming,i had many a bet with Charlie James especially at Sandown Park remember Dave Saphire and Kiki those were good days when the ring had a bit of atmosphere remember getting the tissue from Jack the Judge
Report jimnast March 10, 2021 9:55 PM GMT
on the friday of royal ascot a friend of mine was wanting a chunk on the all blacks to win the world cup final the day after ,they were around 5/2 on,a tick tac i knew said dave saphire your man to lay you that bet which he did and he kept the money.
Report Regbutler March 10, 2021 9:56 PM GMT
OK Glen, I hadn't doubted you, btw
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 10:00 PM GMT
I doubted you tbh,thought somebody had nicked your name!!!Shocked
Report bigbillbovington March 10, 2021 10:03 PM GMT
burns bookmakers, they done a runner, never been caught, bowmans  went skint
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 10, 2021 10:07 PM GMT
The Freddie Starr horse might have been King's Bridge, trained by John Jenkins. It won a 3m handicap chase at Newbury around that time, at one of the autumn meetings. It looked a real Grand National type, but then broke down. That would have been 1985 (I think) rather than 1984.
Report ronnie rails March 10, 2021 10:11 PM GMT
Big billie

the game has never been easy  some old timers will remember Benny racing on the rails great pitches went owing a good few quid.

have a nice evening

Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 10, 2021 10:12 PM GMT
Dave Saphir was an all-round good guy. Somehow combined courtesy and discretion with hard-headness and cynicism. Always competitively priced, but never stupidly so, and never once refused a bet to take out a grand.

Everything a gentleman and a bookmaker should be.
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 10:13 PM GMT
TY SBTW,too late for the horse I am thinking of though.
Report bigbillbovington March 10, 2021 10:15 PM GMT
burns, shop in north london, giving good prices on antepost football,  fled back to ireland  apparently
Report Regbutler March 10, 2021 10:17 PM GMT
As people are putting up horses from the past, I had a chat today with one of the Co owners of Garrison Savannahs, Gold Cup winner in 91. Told me the story before but never tire of him telling me how it would have won the Grand National 3 weeks later as well if hadn't missed a piece of work. Jenny Pitman had arranged a racecourse gallop at Newbury but the horsebox broke down and never got there. Convinced that cost him first place(finished 2nd)
Report Topscore57 March 10, 2021 10:22 PM GMT
Ronnie, Was at Leicester when a certain man helicoptered in to watch his Royal Derbi run. The books got everything beat that day, I had an interest with F&P for the one and only time, don't think he ever forgave me for having the interest or himself for offering it!!
Report ronnie rails March 10, 2021 10:27 PM GMT

getting on in age but was that foggerhill and power or something like that.

hope you are well

Report Topscore57 March 10, 2021 10:28 PM GMT
Nearly Ronnie, -Fothergill and Powell.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 10, 2021 10:29 PM GMT
Some West Country names:

Vickers of Barnstaple - "A Sporty Bet"

Peter Jolliffe of Poole - May still be going, but got the account closed letter back in the 1990s

Stephen Little of Bath - Possibly the last bookmaker to try to make an actual book. Statements on yellow paper each week. Got stung big-time when the Brian Wright firm got involved in the Jibereen race. Wright was eventually put inside, but too late for Little, who now arbs on-course.

Dave Pipe of, well, everywhere. Father of Martin, grandfather of David. Promoted dog racing at the County Cricket Ground at Taunton in the 1960s. The dogs used to parade in what was then the nets area behind the Old Pavilion, leaving behind presents for the cricketers the next day. He turned the Old Pavilion interior into a Wild West-themed bar on race nights on the basis he'd found a photo of 19th-century Somerset allrounder Sammy Woods wearing a sombrero. Eventually sold all his shops to Hills to concentrate on the on-course business and on his son reinventing the way you trained racehorses. Kept the one shop in central Taunton, where the pencils were attached to pieces of string to prevent pilfering. Was the last bookie to use chalk on-course and possibly buried in the same trilby and raincoat he wore every day to the races. Always lowest priced on his son's runners, which must have helped keep the business profitable.

Those impressive buildings in North St, Taunton, which used to house the County Stores and Ladbrokes next door, have the Pipes as landlords. A legacy of when some punter couldn't pay, it's said. One day during summer 2014 I was in that Ladbrokes shop when a chap started talking to me who I'm almost sure was Derek Button, who, with his brother, used to bet under the Fred Button sign in the West Country. The trouble is, I'd not seen Derek for years and I'm almost completely deaf now, so I'm not 100% sure who the nervous chap talking 19 to the dozen at me really was.

Conky Woods was Yeovil's town crier, as well as town bookie. He traded under the name Mike Loveless Commissioning Agent, perhaps wanting to keep his business life wholly separate from his life as pillar of the civic community. I don't really know, but he was no shrinking violet in the Ring at the West Country gaffs. Let's just say that Conky fought a long battle against the idea that good public relations had any part to play in dealing with punters trying to take his pants down.

A legend.
Report handtorofe March 10, 2021 10:31 PM GMT
Screaming did you remember Sid Hooper
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 10:33 PM GMT
Reg,the last time I was visiting Weathercock House I met Errol Brown,saw Garry in the paddock and witnessed Fellon and Ramsden pulling Rafferty's Rules in a Laddies in Lambourn.Had coffee with the cuddly one,met the rotty in her office and held the Gold Cup which sat on a window ledge with no bars or security.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 10, 2021 10:34 PM GMT
I do remember Sid Hooper in the SE, but I rarely has a bet with him for some reason. Perhaps his prices were too accurate. Would explain how the firm came to be able to buy all the Hills pitches.
Report handtorofe March 10, 2021 10:38 PM GMT
Was scratching a living as a bookmaker late seventies done well to buy the Hills pitches
Report ronnie rails March 10, 2021 10:38 PM GMT

Think mr Little paid the  guys out with a kite    little did they know it would lead to there downfall,

hope you are well

Report The Knight March 10, 2021 10:41 PM GMT
loper...yes, Grey Salute. And what you say about the race is bang on.

Ihe guy I worked with went to Newbury with the owner and a whole group of his shop regulars.

Although so long ago, it still might not make you feel any better to know how I can well recall the following week my work colleague telling me that Grey Salute's connections could hardly believe their luck how everything fell so perfectly right for their gamble! The going, the small field with some of those they thought the biggest dangers not running, and the pace in the race itself.
Report Regbutler March 10, 2021 10:42 PM GMT
Glen, that Laddies shop in Lambourn I still visit every couple of months
20 plus years ago used to see all well known jockeys and trainers in there but just usually (foreign) stable lads these days... Playing the machines!
Report ronnie rails March 10, 2021 10:43 PM GMT

Sid backed by his son big wheel in the city

Report handtorofe March 10, 2021 10:51 PM GMT
I nearly had the Jibereen colours but got knocked back by the Bha
Report TheNorfolkMafia March 10, 2021 11:00 PM GMT
The Sid Hooper pitches are run by third generation layer and managing director John Hooper, who sold his city business for a substantial sum of money!
Report glentoby March 10, 2021 11:04 PM GMT
Hope you and Jean are well Paul,did I look like a vagrant when we met?

Just to shut the trolls up!!
Report handtorofe March 10, 2021 11:06 PM GMT
Think i even remember Sid at Tweezeldown point to point
Report TheNorfolkMafia March 11, 2021 12:00 AM GMT
glentoby • March 10, 2021 11:04 PM GMT
Hope you and Jean are well Paul,did I look like a vagrant when we met?

Just to shut the trolls up!!

Far from it!
Report HGS March 11, 2021 9:49 AM GMT
Was mentioned earlier in thread that Tom Fruit had passed. Does anyone know  if this is the same chap who did Coventry dogs who bet without the fav?
Report loper March 11, 2021 1:01 PM GMT

10 Mar 21 20:27
Joined: 08 Mar 03
| Topic/replies: 10,165 | Blogger: ribero1's blog
Loper,are you saying the bookmaker had same christian name as his father or the same as the trainer?

Sorry Ribero I didn't make it clear.

The son of the bookmaker had the same name as his dad.
Report ribero1 March 11, 2021 1:21 PM GMT
Thanks Loper,got it.
Report G Hall March 11, 2021 1:49 PM GMT
The female version of his christian name would have been very famous in England
Report Reveen March 15, 2021 11:50 AM GMT
Great thread. More stories please!
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