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An absolute tragedy of Shakespearean proportions, an unthinking moment of disrespect to a tragically deceased animal that until then had been loved and nurtured by Gordon and all of the 80+ staff of lads and lasses who are now as a consequence facing possible redundancy, seized upon by the ignorant anti-racing rabble to further their ill-informed racing's-cruel crusade. The pic is being portrayed by the media and racists, many of whom sadly infest this forum, as similar to the grotesque images of safari hunters posing beside a defenceless lion or elephant that these fearless scumbags have just executed, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Racing's hierarchy have fallen over themselves in their haste to crucify Gordon in an attempt to sanitize and hide the scars of the sport we all love. Start being real - racing's a tough sport, think Carlisle on a blindingly cold sleety day, not Little House on the Prairie!
Yes Gordon was a moron, but he deserves a second chance!
Racing's hierarchy have fallen over themselves in their haste to crucify Gordon in an attempt to sanitize and hide the scars of the sport we all love. Start being real - racing's a tough sport, think Carlisle on a blindingly cold sleety day, not Little House on the Prairie!
Yes Gordon was a moron, but he deserves a second chance!
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I was so upset that I cried all the way to the chip shop
When I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stop
And guess who was with him
Yeah, o'leary, and they were both laughing at me
When I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stop
And guess who was with him
Yeah, o'leary, and they were both laughing at me
Elliot is finished because the owners have and will remove their horses. Whether this forum give him a break or not is purely academic.
if O'Leary makes him his private trainer, he won't give a sheet about other owners !
"Start being real - racing's a tough sport, think Carlisle on a blindingly cold sleety day, not Little House on the Prairie!"
Absolutely, show those horses a bit of respect eh?
Absolutely, show those horses a bit of respect eh?
ihal essex 04 Mar 21 16:38
An absolute tragedy of Shakespearean proportions
What are we talking about here, the actual case, or another thread being started on it, this time in big bold capitals just to add to the drama
An absolute tragedy of Shakespearean proportions
What are we talking about here, the actual case, or another thread being started on it, this time in big bold capitals just to add to the drama
is that the same O'Leary who announced he was quitting horse racing ?
Mar 4, 2021 -- 9:42AM, greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy wrote:
I was so upset that I cried all the way to the chip shopWhen I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stopAnd guess who was with himYeah, o'leary, and they were both laughing at me
"The pic is being portrayed by the media and racists, many of whom sadly infest this forum, as similar to the grotesque images of safari hunters posing beside a defenceless lion or elephant that these fearless scumbags have just executed, when nothing could be further from the truth"
greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy04 Mar 21 16:42Joined: 04 Jun 09 | Topic/replies: 3,674 | Blogger: greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy's blog
I was so upset that I cried all the way to the chip shop
When I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stop
And guess who was with him
Yeah, o'leary, and they were both laughing at me
Should have gone win instead of PLAICE only.
I was so upset that I cried all the way to the chip shop
When I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stop
And guess who was with him
Yeah, o'leary, and they were both laughing at me
Should have gone win instead of PLAICE only.
greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy04 Mar 21 16:42Joined: 04 Jun 09 | Topic/replies: 3,674 | Blogger: greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy's blog
I was so upset that I cried all the way to the chip shop
When I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stop
And guess who was with him
Yeah, o'leary, and they were both laughing at me
Should have gone win instead of PLAICE only.
I was so upset that I cried all the way to the chip shop
When I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stop
And guess who was with him
Yeah, o'leary, and they were both laughing at me
Should have gone win instead of PLAICE only.
similar to the grotesque images of safari hunters posing beside a defenceless lion
hadn't thought of that but now you mention it ...
hadn't thought of that but now you mention it ...
I don't think anybody has accused him of murder yet, have they ?
Since few are privy to the goings on behind the scenes in racing stables up and down the country 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, I would hazard that most of us hope that horses are not being regularly maltreated.
But, we cannot be sure, and so when a photo' appears showing one of racing's leading trainers sitting astride a dead horse, smiling, talking on the phone, and giving the peace sign, such a serious lack of judgement on the part of the trainer makes one wonder what else goes on in that yard when people aren't around to record it. And the thought then arises quite naturally, 'if this is how one of the sport's leading trainers acts, what about the others, especially those smaller yards under the financial cosh ?'
Fact is, when you're as high profile and successful as Elliott is, you simply cannot afford to behave like that. Yes, we all have feet of clay, but with the sort of responsibilities he has to the horses, their owners, and to his staff, he simply cannot afford to err.
Since few are privy to the goings on behind the scenes in racing stables up and down the country 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, I would hazard that most of us hope that horses are not being regularly maltreated.
But, we cannot be sure, and so when a photo' appears showing one of racing's leading trainers sitting astride a dead horse, smiling, talking on the phone, and giving the peace sign, such a serious lack of judgement on the part of the trainer makes one wonder what else goes on in that yard when people aren't around to record it. And the thought then arises quite naturally, 'if this is how one of the sport's leading trainers acts, what about the others, especially those smaller yards under the financial cosh ?'
Fact is, when you're as high profile and successful as Elliott is, you simply cannot afford to behave like that. Yes, we all have feet of clay, but with the sort of responsibilities he has to the horses, their owners, and to his staff, he simply cannot afford to err.
theres allegedly a photo/evidence out there of a worse act on a living well known horse
most on here are hardcore racing fans ,question is if you were sent that pgoto tonight would you post on here knowing the damage that would cause
reading the threads i,d say there,s plenty who wouldnt
which rather proves the point that those inside racing/those who enjoy it as fans.punters cant be trusted to police their own sport and animal rights zealots would be proved right
most on here are hardcore racing fans ,question is if you were sent that pgoto tonight would you post on here knowing the damage that would cause
reading the threads i,d say there,s plenty who wouldnt
which rather proves the point that those inside racing/those who enjoy it as fans.punters cant be trusted to police their own sport and animal rights zealots would be proved right
Really ?
Frankly, I believe a horse's welfare is of far greater concern than the sport's image. If an animal is being abused, then whatever action is needed to stop it should be taken, regardless of whether that risks damaging racing's reputation or not.
And I speak as a racing fan who would, for example, defend the NH code in the teeth of animal rights opponents saying it's cruel.
Frankly, I believe a horse's welfare is of far greater concern than the sport's image. If an animal is being abused, then whatever action is needed to stop it should be taken, regardless of whether that risks damaging racing's reputation or not.
And I speak as a racing fan who would, for example, defend the NH code in the teeth of animal rights opponents saying it's cruel.
well there seems to be plenty of people within the game,jocks,pundits who knew of these 2 examples and quite happy to keep quiet about them
i would imagine everyone in the stable knew and saw this photo well before it came out
you cannot mistreat a dead horse...can you mistreat dognity?
you cannot mistreat a dead horse...can you mistreat dignity?
No doubt many of those very people own pets.
I wonder if they would casually sit on a beloved dog of theirs that had just died, have their photo taken astride it, and give a thumbs up as they grin at the camera.
Probably not.
I wonder if they would casually sit on a beloved dog of theirs that had just died, have their photo taken astride it, and give a thumbs up as they grin at the camera.
Probably not.
greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy 04 Mar 21 17:45
you cannot mistreat a dead horse.
greenie's penning the IHRB official response here
you cannot mistreat a dead horse.
greenie's penning the IHRB official response here
But then again, when you listen to some of the things a certain ennobled trainer says with perfect sincerity, I do wonder sometimes... .
He's just the type who would happily see **** fighting, bear baiting and public hangings made mainstream again. 
Prescott apparently loves going to see matadors spearing bulls to death in spain. He doesn't see a problem!!!!!!
big supporter,arrested for hare coursing few years back with other trainers wasnt he
if all these trainers, owners, pundits's etc are so outraged then why the hell do they support a sport in which the animals taking part are hit with a whip in every race 7 days a week.
The narrative we are given is that 'it doesnt hurt them' or 'its not done to make them run faster',seems a bit hypocrytical to me.
The narrative we are given is that 'it doesnt hurt them' or 'its not done to make them run faster',seems a bit hypocrytical to me.
To be fair CROP', I think there is a difference.
Used properly, and within the rules, I don't believe the horses are hurt.
But, if evidence were forthcoming that it does, then the whip should be banned from racing - period.
Used properly, and within the rules, I don't believe the horses are hurt.
But, if evidence were forthcoming that it does, then the whip should be banned from racing - period.
yes bluebook i agree but its the image it gives to people outside the sport, how can a pundit or trainer explain to outsiders that its a disgrace what GE did but its ok to hit a horse, wether it hurts or not just wont wash with them.
True enough.
Which is all the more reason why those inside the sport need to get their act together to have any hope of it surviving long term.
Which is all the more reason why those inside the sport need to get their act together to have any hope of it surviving long term.
the sport surviving long term???
how long left do you think it has, months, years, decades??
how long left do you think it has, months, years, decades??
knoxville, there's too much money involved for it NOT too survive, dignity and respect come cheap.
It'll survive.
It'll survive.
I know that well...
just cant believe the amount of tripe I'm reading since this incident.
just cant believe the amount of tripe I'm reading since this incident.
They may well have said the same about fox hunting at one time.
It was hardly an issue of much national - or personal - importance, yet it didn't stop New Labour getting their teeth into it.
It's sobering, to say the least, to learn how many debates were held in parliament on fox hunting compared to the second Iraq war. I forget what the ratio is, but let's just say there were far more debates held on fox hunting than on the Iraq war.
Agreed. There is an economic incentive to keep racing going. But, if the whole issue slips into the hands of politicians, anything is possible. And if it becomes politically advantageous to take a stance against racing to take advantage of public sentiment, they will - Tory or Labour.
It was hardly an issue of much national - or personal - importance, yet it didn't stop New Labour getting their teeth into it.
It's sobering, to say the least, to learn how many debates were held in parliament on fox hunting compared to the second Iraq war. I forget what the ratio is, but let's just say there were far more debates held on fox hunting than on the Iraq war.
Agreed. There is an economic incentive to keep racing going. But, if the whole issue slips into the hands of politicians, anything is possible. And if it becomes politically advantageous to take a stance against racing to take advantage of public sentiment, they will - Tory or Labour.
In his defence, Elliott points to the fantastic set of facilities he has at Cullentra House : does anybody seriously think he would abuse the horses in his care after spending so much time, money and effort building up his business, he asks ?
Maybe not, in spite of the evidence.
But the problem, Gordon, is this : what does it say about your fellow trainers, the majority of whom don't have access to such facilities ? If you treat dead horses in your care with such a cavalier attitude, what are we to expect of them ?
Maybe it's unfair to infer anything at all. But people will.
Maybe not, in spite of the evidence.
But the problem, Gordon, is this : what does it say about your fellow trainers, the majority of whom don't have access to such facilities ? If you treat dead horses in your care with such a cavalier attitude, what are we to expect of them ?
Maybe it's unfair to infer anything at all. But people will.
Which people will? 99.9% couldnt give a damn and the others only gain credibility when people try to placate them instead of ignoring them.
Elliot isnt the problem here. Its the stupid people within racing trying to justify their existence to the few who despise racing.
Give him a fine, accept his apology and move on.
Elliot isnt the problem here. Its the stupid people within racing trying to justify their existence to the few who despise racing.
Give him a fine, accept his apology and move on.
you obviously hoovered it all up earlier then washed it down with ale before puking it all back up on this thread.
BTW, you don't 'hoover up' crack - that's coke.
You carefully prepare your crack with a spoon and lighter - a Zippo if you're posh.
You carefully prepare your crack with a spoon and lighter - a Zippo if you're posh.
welcome.
come back in ten years and see has racing 'survived' long term.
come back in ten years and see has racing 'survived' long term.
But jesting aside, what exactly do you disagree with what I've said ?
Ok.
Maybe I'm wrong on that part. In fact, I probably am.
But, in what kind of state will racing be in ten years time ? Will it still be worth following at all if it's allowed others outside the sport to shape it in the meantime - those who don't understand it, and have no interest in understanding it ?
Just look at what's happening in parliament regarding betting - the proposal that punters will have to prove that they have enough money to justify depositing money with a bookmaker or online exchange. If that isn't potentially detrimental to racing's future, what is ?
My point being, people have already got their knives out for racing, and this Elliott incident is incredibly toxic coming when it does, regardless of how you feel about this incident in the abstract, so to speak.
Maybe I'm wrong on that part. In fact, I probably am.
But, in what kind of state will racing be in ten years time ? Will it still be worth following at all if it's allowed others outside the sport to shape it in the meantime - those who don't understand it, and have no interest in understanding it ?
Just look at what's happening in parliament regarding betting - the proposal that punters will have to prove that they have enough money to justify depositing money with a bookmaker or online exchange. If that isn't potentially detrimental to racing's future, what is ?
My point being, people have already got their knives out for racing, and this Elliott incident is incredibly toxic coming when it does, regardless of how you feel about this incident in the abstract, so to speak.
From the Guardian, December 4th 2020 :
'Ministers will consider whether firms should be forced to limit players’ monthly losses and perform stricter affordability checks to ensure people are gambling within their means.'
'Ministers will consider whether firms should be forced to limit players’ monthly losses and perform stricter affordability checks to ensure people are gambling within their means.'
Although I am a massive racing fan, I can see a day when using animals for sport is considered inappropriate and ultimately will be banned.
Attitudes change and where once hanging, burning at the stake , flogging were public events after they were banned coc* fighting , bear baiting, chained bulls killed by dogs carried on. They in turn were banned but badger digging, hare coursing , fox hunting and safari trophies were next in the firing line . Take that a few steps further and deer hunting, bird shooting, jump racing and even boxing will eventually go.
It may take a long time but the pattern is set.
Attitudes change and where once hanging, burning at the stake , flogging were public events after they were banned coc* fighting , bear baiting, chained bulls killed by dogs carried on. They in turn were banned but badger digging, hare coursing , fox hunting and safari trophies were next in the firing line . Take that a few steps further and deer hunting, bird shooting, jump racing and even boxing will eventually go.
It may take a long time but the pattern is set.
they have only lasted so long because most are rich and powerful peoples pastimes
Mar 4, 2021 -- 4:18PM, Dotchinite wrote:
Which people will? 99.9% couldnt give a damn and the others only gain credibility when people try to placate them instead of ignoring them.Elliot isnt the problem here. Its the stupid people within racing trying to justify their existence to the few who despise racing.Give him
When that Ex Liverpool player - Jason carager spat at that teenage girl and kept his job at sky and that Cathy Baulding asked the late great Liam Treadwell to look into the camera after winning the Grand National , to show the world his teeth - they basically got off Scot free . That in my opinion cannot be forgiven . For one I can’t stand the sound of CB voice and is ugly as hell and as for the other he was an average footballer at best .
What Gordon has done is totally unforgivable . In my opinion he should take his punishment like a man and disappear into obscurity .
What Gordon has done is totally unforgivable . In my opinion he should take his punishment like a man and disappear into obscurity .
Mar 4, 2021 -- 5:57PM, brians wrote:
Although I am a massive racing fan, I can see a day when using animals for sport is considered inappropriate and ultimately will be banned. Attitudes change and where once hanging, burning at the stake , flogging were public events after they were banned coc* fighting , bear baiting, chained bulls killed by dogs carried on. They in turn were banned but badger digging, hare coursing , fox hunting and safari trophies were next in the firing line . Take that a few steps further and deer hunting, bird shooting, jump racing and even boxing will eventually go. It may take a long time but the pattern is set.
Could be brians, could be.
I totally agree ZEALOT,
And I think people like GE will, ultimately, take racing down with them.
And I think people like GE will, ultimately, take racing down with them.
take racing down with him..
what reasonable time limit do you put on this happening?
what reasonable time limit do you put on this happening?
6 race meeting ploughing on today in uk/ire
yet elliott is going to finish racing and take it down with him.
covid affecting brains more than lungs at the mo.
yet elliott is going to finish racing and take it down with him.
covid affecting brains more than lungs at the mo.
Yeah, you're probably right knox but I know where MY sympathies lie.
It's Elliott that's finished ( in anything like the big time ) not racing. We can manage without people like him that's for certain.
The question IS howard, how many [Elliots] are there out there?
If Elliot is finished for this the Sport of King will be finished too each time a horse is injured, killed or put down in any horse race on tv.
Stable lads and lasses would have been sacked for far less.
123, I don't think that Elliot will suffer any REAL fallout from this.
metro, I doubt this is the first or the LAST time this sort of thing has happened and I'm not convinced that over all anyone really GIVES a toss.
We just really don't need to see pictures.
metro, I doubt this is the first or the LAST time this sort of thing has happened and I'm not convinced that over all anyone really GIVES a toss.
We just really don't need to see pictures.
people make serious mistakes in their lives every day .. if he cuddled the horses head and in tears he would be a hero .. the phone is a part of life recently with most people you see .. an apology for wrong doing is a start . for such a talented gifted man who got the best out of his charges over many years . we have a troubled sport now and that does not play into todays .. expectations .. this is not a short head decision .. but a mile out of focus .. Turf Club , sort it out ,,, with the Jewel in the crown days away and a pandemic to boot .. some fair .. compassion required for the tragic incident we picture ... needs remembering where he starts and where he is now .very bad day at the office comes to mind .. lead from front in time to come with exemplary future .respect your charges your staff through thick and thin .and as they say ... Keep your nose clean .. Hope you get back soon and put all this behind you ..
It's only a game, and no body died. It's a sensitive issue nevertheless a perspective is required. Get over it. Worse things happen on the racecourses eg a fatal injury, etc.
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