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stayinin
22 Feb 21 20:18
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Date Joined: 25 Aug 11
| Topic/replies: 296 | Blogger: stayinin's blog
https://twitter.com/FoxFly11

FoxFly Lead Pilot James, unfortunately, suffered a bruised leg today after being intimidated and rammed by a car when doing his job.
@arenaracingco
cronies today
@WolvesRaces
, l don’t know if he will recover emotionally from this. #bullies #hatecrime

everybody fighting for pennies Laugh

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Replies: 143
By:
windsor knot
When: 22 Feb 21 20:31
i have no real latch on to drones at  all weather  wolver , but if this is the way you have to make a living then i would put forward some more attractive occupations ...rat catching , subway assistant manager , millwall fc steward ... that type of thing .
By:
Jumping-cuckoo-monk
When: 22 Feb 21 20:31
"Lead Pilot"
I feel the need.........the need for speed Laugh
By:
Ramruma
When: 22 Feb 21 20:49
Re OP. I'd be surprised if it is the racecourse ramming people. Ironic if there is no overhead footage of the incident.
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 22 Feb 21 21:14
if police attended they will have the car reg and will know the occupants...cant believe arc or wolves staff would involve themselves.
By:
hello :-)
When: 22 Feb 21 22:36
rival drone gang maybe , less hands bigger pot
By:
dustybin
When: 23 Feb 21 01:51
The way I understand it is there is a process in place where serious content providers table their proposal to cover the event.
None of the drone operatives to my knowledge abide by that process.
Why would they, they have no interest in contributing back into racing, they don’t wish to be contractually bound by fines for lack of standards and most of all couldn’t cater but for a relatively small number of customers as have no scalability.

How can they therefore refer to ‘cronyism’ when themselves only exist for their own greed?
By:
Brian
When: 23 Feb 21 08:21
Lead Pilot! How many pilots do they need?  Another different world evolving.
By:
geoff m
When: 23 Feb 21 09:48
Looks like Foxfly telling porkies:FoxFly
@FoxFly11
·
Feb 21



FoxFly Ltd will not be offering a streaming service of British Racecourses with IMMEDIATE EFFECT!

Didnt last longLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
geoff m
When: 23 Feb 21 09:48
Looks like Foxfly telling porkies:FoxFly
@FoxFly11
·
Feb 21



FoxFly Ltd will not be offering a streaming service of British Racecourses with IMMEDIATE EFFECT!

Didnt last longLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
Jumping-cuckoo-monk
When: 23 Feb 21 09:56
That foxy seemed extremely confident in the legality of his operation.
Made a point of it
What changed?
By:
geoff m
When: 23 Feb 21 10:03
Nowt has changed. States on 21st they will not be offering a streaming service with immediate effect .Then on 22nd filming from Wolverhampton where operator was attacked.
By:
penzance
When: 23 Feb 21 10:24
'Lead Pilot'
they must've clocked from his sheepskin aviator jacket
and flying googles.
By:
salmon spray
When: 23 Feb 21 10:37
Should be arrested never mind rammed.
How long before one of these idiots loses control of his machine and causes a nasty accident ?
By:
dave1357
When: 23 Feb 21 10:46
that's no way to talk about jockeys, salmon.
By:
salmon spray
When: 23 Feb 21 11:08
Grin
By:
dustybin
When: 23 Feb 21 11:22
Windy today
Wonder what the limit is for them to still be able to control them?
By:
loper
When: 23 Feb 21 12:14
The fact that he keeps retweeting Nigel Farage's sage advice tells you all you need to know.
By:
greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy
When: 23 Feb 21 13:02
salmon spray 23 Feb 21 12:37 
Should be arrested never mind rammed.
How long before one of these idiots loses control of his machine and causes a nasty accident ?

there were thousands of children flying them on xmas day.
By:
salmon spray
When: 23 Feb 21 13:14
I'd have given the little brats a clip and confiscated their drones       Mischief
By:
elise
When: 23 Feb 21 13:22
Wonder what the limit is for them to still be able to control them?  think it's about 30mphish and it's part of their licence rules
By:
brians
When: 23 Feb 21 13:25
I think  salmon meant the distance they work at. ? Must be a limit to the radio control .
By:
elise
When: 23 Feb 21 13:27
wasn't salmon that asked it was dusty, the distance is something like 400 - 500 mtrs and in line of sitght
By:
Writz
When: 23 Feb 21 13:28
How many drones are actually flying at racecourses on a regular day
By:
salmon spray
When: 23 Feb 21 13:29
How many of the buggers bother to get a licence ?
By:
brians
When: 23 Feb 21 13:31
Thanks Elise . Thats only about 2 furlongs. Must be close to the stands ?
By:
elise
When: 23 Feb 21 13:31
think it's the law now salmon and they are probably using them as a business so it's a commercial licence i'd imagine, if they want to avoid the police i'd guess that's an easy thing for them to comply with
By:
elise
When: 23 Feb 21 13:33
not sure brians, i watched one of their dog videos and i was thinking he was about 200 ft up over the back of the stand
By:
elise
When: 23 Feb 21 13:37
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23G6cZTvEkI
By:
jamesdean
When: 23 Feb 21 13:40
anyone able to post a video of a full horse race from the drone?
By:
brians
When: 23 Feb 21 13:49
Yes Eise. Just thinking if one of these fell on a crowd.....
By:
11kv
When: 23 Feb 21 17:11
The RCA condemns the flying of unauthorised drones on a raceday, particularly from a safety perspective given the potential damage that could be inflicted. We are working closely with all racecourses and the police to prevent this practise and will not hesitate to press charges in the appropriate circumstances.

Caroline Davies, Racecourse Services Director
By:
punts
When: 23 Feb 21 17:47
Can the drone operator not press charges for assault ? Trace their number plates..
By:
ribero1
When: 23 Feb 21 18:45
Big article in the post online,Arena not happy etc,sorry but I'm no copy & paster.
By:
jimnast
When: 23 Feb 21 18:51
me neither i am sure somebody will post it.
By:
ItsMeSwaddle
When: 23 Feb 21 19:04
A war is taking place for the skies above British and Irish racecourses with millions of pounds in betting and pictures rights on the line as racing attempts to defend itself against what it considers to be an epidemic of drones.

It is a battle which has next month’s Cheltenham Festival at its heart, with the prospect of several drone operators taking advantage of the meeting being behind closed doors to use the quick pictures their machines provide to gain a major edge when betting in running during the biggest punting week of the year.

Meanwhile, ordinary punters are caught in the middle, reliant on slower official streams which hamper attempts to bet in running against rivals who quite literally have time on their side.

Tracks staunchly challenge the presence and usage of drones, also known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), on commercial, safety and fairness grounds, while the drone operators stand by their rights to fly within the rules and make use of the upper hand they get by doing so.

Cheltenham Festival: in-running drone pictures set to give punters a competitive edge
Cheltenham Festival: in-running drone pictures set to give punters a competitive edge
Edward Whitaker (racingpost.com/photos)

The fighting came to a head at the end of last week when FoxFly Limited, the largest operator of UAVs at racecourses, was served with a legal challenge by Arena Racing Company (Arc) over its plans to offer punters the chance to access the super-fast pictures provided by its drones for in-running betting purposes if they were prepared to pay and go to the company’s offices to view the stream.

At up to £200 a head for as many as ten people per day, the service had the prospect of adding another profitable string to the bow of FoxFly and its pugnacious boss Mick McCool, an innovative and successful professional punter who has made himself something of a nemesis for racecourses for the past few years.

A spokesman for Arc said: “I can confirm that we issued a letter before action at the end of last week.”

Two weeks ago a drone team was also fined €4,000 for breaching Ireland’s Covid-19 rules when operating a drone near to Punchestown. The IHRB said it plans to work with the Gardai and “other relevant bodies to try and deal” with drones being flown around Irish tracks.

For McCool, the safety argument presented by Arc in its legal challenge to stop him flying his drones does not hold water, and while he took to social media over the weekend to withdraw his in-running service to punters, he is unlikely to back down permanently.

“Nobody, nobody owns the airspace above tracks in Britain and as long as we follow the rules and regulations which state as competent pilots we don’t fly over persons or structures that we believe might be compromised by a UAV falling out of the air then it’s all right for us to carry on,” he said. “There are no rules and regulations that can stop people from flying over Arc tracks or any other course.”

FoxFly, McCool says, has the capability to have a drone at every meeting in Britain and Ireland every day if required, but it is not alone in the skies.

Drone operators and in-running punters speak of there frequently being multiple units up at any one time, with seven flying at a recent Southwell all-weather meeting and six at Warwick on Classic Chase day last month, with their presence increasing since the first lockdown.

The enterprise is not cheap. The drones used, such as the M300, alongside camera equipment and spare parts, are estimated to cost £20,000 and that is before you factor in the price of the two-man team required to run it each day — one to fly the drone and one to spot for other objects in the air. Each drone is registered with the Civil Aviation Authority, pilots are required to undergo training and flight plans have to be submitted every time they are used.

The reason people are increasingly looking to drones is the edge they provide in terms of picture speed, which can then be used to gain an advantage when betting in running. With no-one able to attend the track to bet from hospitality boxes or to stream pictures on FaceTime off the big screen or internal CCTV, these punters have taken flight.

One in-running punter, speaking on the condition of anonymity, estimated his annual betting income to be £100,000 but is expecting that to soar having purchased a drone.

“There were drones out there before lockdown but since it happened the number being used has seriously escalated,” they say. “Betfair live video is about a second behind us and it literally takes a second to have a bet. I would think [how much I am making] would go up as the result of having a drone. It’s worth the investment, in my eyes.”

In-running punters without their own drones are able to access the streams provided by the operators each day if contributing to the running costs, which are in the region of £500. However, increasingly an arms race is developing whereby each punter is getting their own unit into the air with the best technology available to try to come out on top.

All of which is proving to be desperately frustrating for gamblers like Martin Hughes. A longstanding in-running punter, and member of the Horseracing Bettors Forum, Hughes has found it more and more difficult to compete when betting with so many drones in circulation.

Hughes has continually fought to get broadcasters Racing TV and Sky Sports Racing to provide faster pictures to nullify the impact of the drones, even going as far as to suggest racecourses, or Betfair, provide a drone themselves with punters paying a fee to access it.

“If I knew I was operating on a level playing field with other people I would be more than happy to pay racecourses to use a drone stream,” he said. “What frustrates me is that I think TV companies can do more.

“I don’t bet on the all-weather tracks any more, I’ve given it up because pictures from those tracks are so much slower — they’re two seconds behind. You can just tell people are behind and there’s no point betting into that market. I’ve got more chance of losing money than making it.

“A lot of my betting is pre-race and I like to be able to change my position during a race and that’s not something they’re giving me the option to do with the streams they are providing.”

Faster pictures from broadcasters are viewed as key to suppressing the drones. They would also provide security to in-running punters with less awareness of the speed differences and who may be susceptible to having money taken from them when betting, for example, on a horse in running that a drone operator already knows has fallen.

A spokesman for Racecourse Media Group said it “had invested significantly in its streaming” and that feeds from its partner racecourses were “at least under one second behind live on all devices”.

Barry Orr: "integrity of live pictures is paramount to us"
Barry Orr: "integrity of live pictures is paramount to us"
Alan Crowhurst

Barry Orr, Betfair’s head of racing PR, said: “The integrity of live pictures is paramount to us. The picture providers have an important role to play in this and latency has been reduced by some better than others. Hopefully it can be reduced further and we get to a stage where racing pictures are as close to live as possible.’’ 

Arc has been particularly fired up by what is happening with the streams from the drones, and is leading the way in combating what it believes to be theft of its intellectual property and the selling of pictures to black market websites.

Racecourses receive over £100 million a year for their media rights, so protecting the images from drones, whatever they may or may not be being used for, is viewed as critical to their finances.

“There is a principle in that some [drones] appear to be broadcasting pictures of the racing,” said Jonathan Garratt, Kelso's managing director.

“Media rights are a very significant revenue stream and we would have major concerns if somebody were to compromise something that is so valuable to us. These pictures and the data underpin large parts of the funding for the industry.” 

Claims that the feeds are being sold to black market websites are rubbished by McCool, who says such action would “water down” his product and picture speed, which is less than half a second behind the live action, while another drone operator spoken to for this article insisted the UAVs were being solely used for in-running betting in domestic markets.

“Anyone who’s involved in drones and in-running betting is betting into Betfair and they’re part of the income for the sport,” they said.

The Betfair in-running market is set to be the focus for drone users next month during the Cheltenham Festival, where an average of £500,000 is traded during each race.

Drones: will be in the sky at the Cheltenham Festival
Drones: will be in the sky at the Cheltenham Festival
Bruce Bennett

Discussions with drone operators indicate that somewhere between three and six drones are likely to be flying around Cheltenham during the festival, with Gloucestershire Police confirming that the usual restrictions around airspace at the track are not in place this year.

However, the course’s owner Jockey Club Racecourses is understood to be privately considering what options may be available to it to block their access on grounds of safety and security.

“We’ll definitely have an aerial system in the air at Cheltenham but not above the racecourse,” McCool said. “We will have consulted with the Satco [Senior Air Traffic Controller], who is in charge there, to make sure we’re operating within the parameters of his safety regulations prior to the festival going ahead.”

He added: “We pride ourselves in all being trained professionals, being responsible pilots and we carry out continued development training within the company and we track all pilots.

“We’re members of Arpas [Association of Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems] and gold standard members of the drone safe register. We pride ourselves in never having had any sort of activity that was untoward to the rule and regulations of those bodies.”

Like McCool, other drone operators will be at the festival and insist they will be acting responsibly. What they will not be doing is apologising for using their UAVs to get a betting edge, however that advantage might be viewed by others.

“It’s not unfair at all,” the unnamed drone user said. “You want to try and get live pictures and it’s about how you go and do that. The only option at the moment is to have a drone.”
By:
jimnast
When: 23 Feb 21 19:07
thanks swaddle i see tiger has had a bad road accident .
By:
ItsMeSwaddle
When: 23 Feb 21 19:12
Sad, his changed attitude the last few years has been class
By:
elise
When: 23 Feb 21 19:13
i am going to be really surprised if at the festival with helicopters coming in and out they won't get pulled by the police for operating illegally
By:
punts
When: 23 Feb 21 19:14
Arena taking legal action then... pass me the popcorn...
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