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Gordon63
20 Jan 21 10:56
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Date Joined: 27 Aug 02
| Topic/replies: 2,847 | Blogger: Gordon63's blog
how does one arrive at such a status?
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Report workrider January 20, 2021 11:48 AM GMT
Half a Million bank roll maybe ? never heard of it till now...
Report saddo January 20, 2021 12:01 PM GMT
Me neither. They've stopped em laying but that doesn't stop em dutching every other runner.
Report Wesdag January 20, 2021 12:10 PM GMT
Anyone able to post the article on here please?
Report hello :-) January 20, 2021 12:19 PM GMT
i would appreciate that aswell if someone could
Report Wesdag January 20, 2021 12:38 PM GMT
managed to find this, don't know if it's the whole article

https://twitter.com/Bickley14/status/1351821462999543808/photo/1
Report dave1357 January 20, 2021 1:31 PM GMT
white labeling is a generic term where someone runs a retail enterprise under their own name but the actual flesh and bones of the business is a much larger company - i.e. it is really just a marketing exercise. In this context you could start up saddobet, registered in Curacao, and offer customers backs and lays, but these are just placed on betfair exchange. 

It seems a bit of an odd set up with respect to the exchange, as liquidities and fluctuating odds don't really lend themselves to this kind of marketing, so you would have to ask why such arrangements would exist.
Report dave1357 January 20, 2021 1:34 PM GMT
Also I can't recall anyone ever saying that they have bet with or heard of such an enterprise.
Report Storm Alert January 20, 2021 1:35 PM GMT
They haven't completely stopped them laying only place laying.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! January 20, 2021 1:36 PM GMT
Ive heard of
Red LABEL















WHISKY

Laugh
Report sparrow January 20, 2021 1:37 PM GMT
Just another bunch of shysters it seems.
Report hulk23 January 20, 2021 1:38 PM GMT
Half a Million bank roll maybe ? never heard of it till now...

how many other things you never heard of about this place ?  you've all been warned, wouldn't listen ...
Report Storm Alert January 20, 2021 1:41 PM GMT
Indeed, most are Asian? What I don't like it is it integrates into Betfair almost by stealth and allows individuals to circumnavigate checks balances.
Report dave1357 January 20, 2021 1:51 PM GMT
Given that there is no viable commercial application of white labeling in the context of the exchange, you would have to ask if the arrangements are only there to facilitate anonymity or otherwise allow the placing of bets by those that can't do so directly.
Report ribero1 January 20, 2021 2:04 PM GMT
If you wanted to lay one without drawing attention to yourself i always presumed there would be a network of regular large layers who'd be happy to help you out (as obviously the lays wouldn't look out of place) if you were successful,think i might have finally found it!
Report parispike January 20, 2021 2:11 PM GMT
Given that there is no viable commercial application of white labeling in the context of the exchange, you would have to ask if the arrangements are only there to facilitate anonymity or otherwise allow the placing of bets by those that can't do so directly.

Quite. I can't think of any other explanation. It's not like eg Saga White Labelling Green Flags services so it appears that they (Saga) are providing breakdown cover is it?
Report dave1357 January 20, 2021 2:53 PM GMT
Yes - you can find white labels if you look hard enough, quite a few in financial services. I remember a huge rick on golf odds appearing on three apparently unrelated books at the same time, some of sainsbury's top range foods are very similar to asda's top range.   But I have never seen or heard of anything that remotely looks like an exchange white label.
Report howard January 20, 2021 3:15 PM GMT
So is it the case the actual person/s that used this company will never be identified ?
Report saddo January 20, 2021 3:23 PM GMT
Leave it to dave numbers howard, wouldn't be many better financial sleuths on ere.
Report boga January 20, 2021 3:27 PM GMT
Betfair have said they are unable to comment on the details surrounding the Viking hoard case, which has led to the six-month suspension of trainer Charles Byrnes' licence.

It is understood the route by which lay bets were placed on the horse via what the Irish horseracing regulatory board {IHRB} has described as a " limited liability company" and then with Betfair has been closed since 2019. The unnamed limited liability company referred to is also known as a 'white label'. in this case a business-to-business partner of Betfair.

Betfair's parent company flutter has a section on its website specific to the 'exchange white label', which it says: " provides partners with the ability to access and leverage the global Betfair exchange.

"partners can offer their customers an unparalleled exchange experience by harnessing Betfair's exchange liquidity and leading product offering."

It adds that: "partners can offer their customers access to Betfair's global liquidity pool."

Concerns that such arrangements might allow gamblers to avoid identity checks and risk illegal gambling were raised in the financial times' article in July 2019.

At the time Betfair insisted their partners were all licensed operators and were required to conduct ' know your customer' checks as part of their licensing and contracts with Betfair.

Betfair also said they had access to the details of any individual customer account. The IHRB has said there is no evidence to connect Byrnes with the betting patterns.

The flutter website says that exchange white label customers" have the option to 'lay". however, it is understood that since 2019 the function to lay bets on white labels has been removed by Betfair.

Asked about yesterday's announcement concerning Byrnes and the Viking hoard case, Betfair would only say: " We are not commenting on an ongoing investigation."

In August 2006 Betfair signed a memorandum of understanding with the IHRB'S predecessor the turf club which allowed the body to investigate betting patterns when wrongdoing was suspected.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves January 20, 2021 3:31 PM GMT
A list of (mostly Asian) Betfair white labels (it's a long one). Scroll down to nearly halfway for the list and screenshots.

https://globalextramoney.com/bookmakers/betfair-alternatives

The article also explains why they're needed - Betfair itself is banned in these territories.
Report Ramruma January 20, 2021 3:33 PM GMT
Betfair is owned by Flutter who handily publish this page about the white label:

https://www.flutter.com/b2b/exchange-white-label

I'd have thought obvious uses would be to provide interfaces in different languages and that prioritise different sports.

Only a cynic would suggest it might also free Betfair from looking too closely at local laws.
Report geoff m January 20, 2021 3:38 PM GMT
The flutter website says that exchange white label customers" have the option to 'lay". however, it is understood that since 2019 the function to lay bets on white labels has been removed by Betfair.





However they can back every other horse in a race to win NO PROBLEM!!!!LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report ribero1 January 20, 2021 3:46 PM GMT
The function would appear to still have been there in July 2019 as that's when the FT questioned it.
Report dave1357 January 20, 2021 4:14 PM GMT

Jan 20, 2021 -- 4:31PM, screaming from beneaththewaves wrote:


A list of (mostly Asian) Betfair white labels (it's a long one). Scroll down to nearly halfway for the list and screenshots. https://globalextramoney.com/bookmakers/betfair-alternativesThe article also explains why they're needed - Betfair itself is banned in these territories.


interesting - so they are skins? They seem to allow laying from the screen shots?  There is a lot of talk of "bet brokers" which isn't really the same as a skin.  A skin would be viable and betfair should be able to identify the account that places a trade although they might not know the name behind the account. A bet broker would (should) be a different set up where only the broker's account places the bet.

Report onlooker January 20, 2021 4:14 PM GMT
ribero1 20 Jan 21 15:04 

If you wanted to lay one without drawing attention to yourself i always presumed there would be a network of regular large layers who'd be happy to help you out (as obviously the lays wouldn't look out of place) if you were successful,think i might have finally found it!
------------

ribero   - I have often wondered and thought exactly the same.

In the early years of Betfair - admittedly before the 'Owners cannot Lay their own horses' Rule - Miles and the Palacegate gang simply stood out like a  sore thumb.

However - Since then - We are all aware of certain stables whose horses underperform and run badly - coincidently when they also 'take a walk in the market', or in certain cases are ridden by an on your radar smelly jockey, to boot

But how do these stables benefit? - or to put it bluntly - get the LAYS on?

Using Owners has to be a No-No - as that is easily traceable - and Owners would tell, or indeed use, other friends punters - and the cat would soon be out of the bag - Loose talk and all that.

I could quantify the large amounts both Bet and Laid on the Football 'Next Manager Markets - when they were in full flow - as just how do you police the involvement of all those Football Agents representing various Managers (approached/interviewed) etc ... There is no  Betfair Rule about that.

Interestingly, one well-known Football Agent became heavily involved in Racehorse Ownership ... presumably he watched  his namesake prison officer in 'Porridge', too, for other entertainment.
Report impossible123 January 20, 2021 4:18 PM GMT
White labelling promotes and increases liquidity. The flipside is it's almost wholly 'lay' activity specific. But, it generates mega commission for betfair (no question asks)...until it turns out to be dodgy eg runner drifts like a barge and runs like a slow boat. Or the BHA is involved.

If the Asians (Asia market players) are involved almost a certainty it's dodgy.
Report ribero1 January 20, 2021 5:10 PM GMT
Indeed onlooker,we've often thought bloody hell that was obvious,how have they got away with that? These revelations might help to explain it.
Report Gordon63 January 20, 2021 5:27 PM GMT
so can we reasonably infer that these practices are more prevalent than viking hoard? if so then IF Betfair/Flutter are serious about integrity (and I have my doubts) then this is worthy of a press release which can be scrutinised by the forum illuminati
Report grappler January 20, 2021 5:55 PM GMT
none of the illuminati gatherings i have attended has ever included another member of the notfair forum.

this aint news. it has been unremarked-upon for years, and you do not need to use notfair if you dont want to. there are other places you can do likewise with no questions. all it requires is a bit of legwork.
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