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matso
02 Jan 21 18:17
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Date Joined: 10 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 561 | Blogger: matso's blog
another questionable ride for a David Evans horse
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Report Davros January 2, 2021 6:27 PM GMT
I can be more precise when the sectionals come out, but on the face of it the horse was given a shocker.  Pretty unforgiveable.
Report the dealer January 2, 2021 6:31 PM GMT
Poorly judged imho not bent

Has picked up really well in its races showing a fair turn of speed, I think he thought it would do the same but it didn't, havent looked back but I think he was as far back turning in today as he was last time.
Report The Management January 2, 2021 6:31 PM GMT
Looked utterly rancid - but I would have assumed it was just a terribly judged ride if it hadn't been coupled with £5k chunks chasing the price out trying to get laid in-running.

I don't (generally) play in running but don't recall seeing £5k chunks entering the market on a flat race (or any race) before the horses chance has clearly gone - but then again I have seen fat lasses going to weigh-in night at fat-club that are quicker than my pictures; so maybe it was just an awful ride and its chance had clearly gone to the people that were watching in real time. Still £5k at a time and not on fill or kill seems unusual (imo).
Report Wesdag January 2, 2021 6:36 PM GMT
An enquiry was held into the running and riding of ROHAAN (IRE), ridden by Darragh Keenan and trained
by David Evans, which was held up in rear, squeezed along from 1 furlong out before staying on well when
asked for effort inside the final furlong to finish second of five, beaten by 1 ¾ lengths. The rider and the
trainer’s representative were interviewed and shown recordings of the race. The Veterinary Officer
reported that a post-race examination of the gelding, during routine testing, revealed that ROHAAN (IRE)
was one tenth lame on its left fore and right hind. The rider stated that his instructions were to ride
ROHAAN (IRE) in a similar manner to how he rode the gelding last time out at Lingfield on 22 December
2020 where he had held the gelding up. He added that ROHAAN (IRE) jumped well and he was confident
turning in that he would pick up the winner. He further explained that he started to ask for effort from 1 ½
furlongs out, but he felt that the gelding did not respond as well as he thought ROHAAN (IRE) would and,
in his opinion, felt slightly flat. The trainer’s representative stated that they had spoken to Evans and he
was unhappy with the ride. Keenan was suspended for 14 days as a result of a serious misjudgement in
that he asked for his effort too late


Did look rather smelly at the time tbh
Report 11kv January 2, 2021 6:38 PM GMT
Dave not happy with the ride Laugh
Report ribero1 January 2, 2021 6:42 PM GMT
14 days seems very harsh for a misjudged ride,it was a poor ride but fairly similar to how he's ridden it before and the winner did get loose on the front,plenty of money for it and while i'm as cynical as anyone can't see to much wrong here.
Report Wesdag January 2, 2021 6:48 PM GMT
stewards got it right imo, made zero effort to close until far too late
Report The Management January 2, 2021 6:49 PM GMT
There is more to it than that if he got 14 days - you see equally "misjudged" rides as that about every 30 minutes imo.

Interesting that Dave Evans was not there - I haven't been for a while now - but thought he was at the races most days.
Report matso January 2, 2021 6:51 PM GMT
Probaly was an over confident ride .. but he sat motionless at a very critical stage of the race .. Also there as been a few Evans horses recently that have been given terrible rides ... we can all draw our own conclusions .. I personally will swerve the yard .
Report carrot1960 January 2, 2021 6:59 PM GMT
And yet he still to beat the 4th  horse Andronicus Beau by a further 1.5 lengths than last time  despite being 12lb worse off with that rival
Report ribero1 January 2, 2021 7:06 PM GMT
Indeed carrot,up 30 from 1st win,incredibly harsh imo.
Report punts January 2, 2021 7:12 PM GMT
That's more like it (Obtuse)
Report Whippin Piccadilly January 2, 2021 7:15 PM GMT
Went up 13lbs for a reason....because it won with any amount in hand and should have won again today given any sort of a proper ride.
Report Macintoshmatty January 2, 2021 7:31 PM GMT
I agree with ribero and dealer
Similar ride to before but had more weight and came up against an improving horse who got the run of the race out front on a day when the Johnson horses had had their carrots. Railed well round the last bend and wasn't stopping
If it had been a two horse race think Rohaan would have won but you always run the risk of when you back a hold up horse of not getting a clear run
It had to go 3 wide round the last bend before getting after the leader

I suppose the 5g bets in running are interesting though, surely they can look into that

I think the suspension is harsh, as Keenan said he was asked to ride the same race as the time before, which he did, just came up against a better horse this time
Report Whippin Piccadilly January 2, 2021 7:37 PM GMT
Confused Sitting as quiet as a church mouse 1 out.....hopefully the break will give him time to decide on what kind of jockey he wants to be.
Report Macintoshmatty January 2, 2021 7:46 PM GMT
yes but same ride as last time
If you look at where he was sitting 1 f out there were 2 horses between him and the winner in a diagonal line, I wonder if he couldn't see how well the winner was going?
Don't think he would have got there anyway, the damage was done having to go around the other horses coming into the straight

Stil its a game of opinions
Report Whippin Piccadilly January 2, 2021 7:58 PM GMT
Overdid the waiting tactics, had them all covered 1 out LTO. He must have known his main danger was the MJ horse, and that JF would try to steal it from the front. I will put it down to jockey error today but he remains on my "list"
Report Whippin Piccadilly January 2, 2021 8:06 PM GMT
On a side note, this horse looks a very shrewd buy. I will be shocked if he can't put more wins on the board off his current and even higher marks.
Report Davros January 2, 2021 8:12 PM GMT
Rohaan looked to be over 4 lengths back 2f out. Consider this:

According to my figures, in the last 209 handicaps over 6f at Lingfield (since start of 2016) only 24 of the winners won from more than 4 lengths back 2f out.  In every single one of those 24 instances the overall race time was average, fast or very fast for the class of horse - meaning that the leaders were vulnerable to slowing / or were slowing / or were dying.  For the age and class this race was quite slowly run, so that horse is never coming back.

Rohaan was given no chance here and he ran really, really well in the circumstances given he was only pushed out.  It may be that jockeys are incapable of judging pace for the class of race, or maybe only the good ones can do it.  I know for one thing - for too long this casual inadequacy has been implicitly sanctioned by authorities.  In that context I'm glad of the ban - although I suspect if he'd waved his whip more vigorously he wouldn't been banned, so I don't think they do it for the right reasons.
Report punchestown January 2, 2021 8:55 PM GMT
Only the rider (if not given instructions to do so) knows as to why he waited so long to get busy in a relatively short straight and in lane 8.

If there was skulduggery in the markets then that must surely come out in the wash.
Report jodean January 2, 2021 9:23 PM GMT
If that was worth 14 days what was Cyclops ride worth or Waiting Patientlys ?
Report jodean January 2, 2021 9:24 PM GMT
Both mis judgements ?
Report scaredmoney January 2, 2021 9:42 PM GMT
Whippin Piccadilly • January 2, 2021 8:06 PM GMT
On a side note, this horse looks a very shrewd buy. I will be shocked if he can't put more wins on the board off his current and even higher marks.


Makes ya wonder what on Earth Marco Botti was looking at when he let it go
Report Markyacard January 3, 2021 12:20 AM GMT
I think as bad as the timing of the Jockeys finishing effort was he had excuses here which rather oddly he chose not to use in front of the stewards.

"he jumped well" could have been... i got unbalanced early then the horse didn't stretch out as he has done during the early part of the race.

After 2 strides Andronicus Beau causes Rohaan to check his stride possibly/probably the cause of the vets lame on his near fore comment post race.

I've never noticed a vet report before stating one tenth lame, half lame or lamer than Donald duck.
Is the measuring process the same as a car at the garage with wheel balancing equipment? Can any vets or experts enlighten me please?

Secondly the winners time was 0.64 seconds faster carrying a stone more than what Rohaan achieved in his previous run.


It would be interesting if Peter Webb or anybody who records their trading can identify when there were 5k chunks going in to lay the horse and upload the video to Youtube.
Report smirnoff2therescue January 3, 2021 12:38 AM GMT
iv4 you watch closely the look across did for him

will win at least 2 off higher.....guess
Report Tugay5 January 3, 2021 12:49 AM GMT
Have a look at the ride of paddy power
6,05 Newcastle 28th Dec
Report Davros January 3, 2021 1:07 AM GMT
Median SF for the winner of a race of this class for 3yos in first 3 months of the year:  c. 72.

Bravado's winning speed figure today:  61.  That's class 6 stuff.

Horses held up as far back as Rohaan stood absolutely no chance.  Rohaan's best figures to date have been 66 and 68, both with a fair bit in hand as he came back from further than ideal (that's how they stayed ahead of the handicapper).  LTO Rohaan won in a very slow figure over CD but he was much closer to the pace. The jockey learned the wrong lessons from his previous rides on the horse.

This should be the last time Bravado ever gets such a giveaway from other riders on the AW.  Will be interesting to see how hard the horse had to work in the first two furlongs.  Bravado is unbeaten in 3 but on each occasion has had more or less uncontested leads at 2f and 4f.  It's going to be interesting which ends up the better horse.
Report matso January 3, 2021 3:54 AM GMT
The authorities must get hold of this situation , there are lots of these questionable rides , and I for one want to see more of these bans for so called ill judged rides..  in my opinion they are not all crooked , but I believe this is the worst crop of jockeys in my memory.
Report roadrunner46 January 3, 2021 8:20 AM GMT
this thread is a good read, sounds like rohaan was really fancied to win yesterday, discounting the RPR'S the handicapper had judged bravado 1lb superior to rohaan after 2 runs compared to its 6 runs, favourite also had the benefit of a 3lb claimer riding (debatable), the winners racing style was always from the front, doesn't stop on the run to the line,
given the prices on the day of those two runners and all known variables, the winner was the best bet imo, the stallion showcasing had a record breaking season in 2020, as for the ride maybe he misjudged the pace and his riding instructions complicated matters
Report Andrew.in.Sweden January 3, 2021 9:34 AM GMT
Good morning Guys

A few of you know that Rahaan was my lay of the day selection but irrespective of this below is my opinion on the race (albeit much of it already stated) and trying to be unbiased.

Whilst some of the blame for defeat can be attached to the conditional jockey (who i accept appeared to ignore the pace up front) did it affect the result conclusively ?.

We all knew his style of running from previous runs, held up at the rear and come with a strong run at the furlong pole. The difference compared to his last race (over CD) was 12 lb higher, another runner in the field and he wasn't as close to the pace this time. Fanning is a better judge of it than Darragh and he was on an unbeaten colt who was always going to make the running.

In terms of weight Rahaan was receiving lumps in his previous races starting off with a very low rating (55) but yesterday he was giving weight to 3 of the field. His TS rating was a low 35 for his last run and it may transpire in time it was a poor field (runner-up well beaten yesterday). Nevertheless he did win well and perhaps this installed too high a confidence level in the horse by the jockey and as a consequence thought he would pick off the leader in the last 1/2f. We are all impressed by horses with a turn of foot

He was 12 lb higher on a mark of 85 yesterday and 30 lb higher than 3 races back, it was also his 4th run in 32 days.

I can't comment on 1/10th lameness (never heard this before) or 5K sums to back IR as i don't play the latter.

We can't knock Bravado yet, he was 2/2 pre-race (won easily in his penultimate race easing down) open to more improvement and he certainly wasn't stopping at the finish winning by 1.75L so it wasn't exactly close. The handicapper also had him ahead of the favourite.

Maybe Rahaan simply came up against a better rival on the day although he could have got closer.

It will be interesting to see how the handicapper marks up the front two on Tuesday and also the next run by both.

Good luck all.
Report The Management January 3, 2021 11:47 AM GMT
Laugh Obviously nobody that laid the horse wants to admit it was a non-jigger and that they just got lucky. It happens, sometimes it works for us, sometimes it works against us. That's racing.

You can argue all day whether the handicapper/weight stopped the horse or not - that truly is just a matter of opinion (so it's a pointless discussion) - those that were against the horse or on the winner will argue one way and those that backed it will argue another. The stewards thought it was a "serious misjudgement" by the jockey and that doesn't happen very often at all (unfortunately). 

I would be much more interested to hear from people that do play in-running about the £5k lumps that appeared to chase the price out during the race, the point in the race at which they appeared and the fact that they didn't appear to be fill or kill.

I have never seen that before - but maybe some people that play in-running can tell me it is common place and happens all the time?
Report mrcombustible January 3, 2021 12:04 PM GMT
Interesting that Dave Evans was not there - I haven't been for a while now - but thought he was at the races most days.

Dave used to be a regular at Lingfield (owners and trainers bar) but hardly ever see him ther now, maybe once in the last two years.
Report The Management January 3, 2021 12:11 PM GMT
Thanks Mr C - I wouldn't be surprised if he is shielding - looked like he was on borrowed time the last time I saw him (pre-pandemic) Shocked
Report GEORGE.B January 3, 2021 12:26 PM GMT
What would the outcome of the SE have been if Evans had said:

Darragh rode to instructions and got past the others comfortably enough, but found the unbeaten and unexposed winner not coming back to him. Perhaps in hindsight he should have asked for an effort sooner, but I couldn't be sure he'd have beaten the winner whichever way he'd been ridden.

It would appear Evans effectively rubber stamped the ban by apparently having said he was unhappy with the ride.

Imo they could only ban him if they were sure he would have beaten the winner if asked for an effort sure, and given he was beaten nearly 2l, they could not have been sure.

Incompetence from the stewards imo.
Report ribero1 January 3, 2021 12:28 PM GMT
Would Keenan have got the same ban if the horse had been trained by Gosden?
Report fronter January 3, 2021 12:49 PM GMT
Would a Senior jockey have got the same ban - I think we all know the answer to that !! It's easy to come down heavy on a relatively young claimer. I don't profess to know the ins and outs of this one but thought it odd Evans basically left Darragh out to dry!
Report ribero1 January 3, 2021 1:26 PM GMT
Dave seems to fall in and out with jockeys all the time,Charles Bishop the latest flavour of the month.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy January 3, 2021 2:06 PM GMT
i posted yest re this initially thort keenan was over confident..

the large amounts ir has changed my mind as these days it simply rarely happens.
Report ashleigh January 14, 2021 6:48 PM GMT
d keenan appealed his 14 day ban today and got it reduced to 10 days, with the horses partial lameness taken into account.Surprised
Report Whippin Piccadilly April 28, 2021 3:53 PM BST
Devil
Report GEORGE.B April 28, 2021 4:14 PM BST
So what are we comparing here, an easy 6f race round Lingfield on the AW where the winner got an easy lead, versus a well run 6f turf race on the stiff Ascot track?
Report GEORGE.B April 28, 2021 4:17 PM BST
It should also be pointed out that the winner Bravado confirmed the Lingfield form when they met again at Kempton. albeit on better weight terms.
Report Whippin Piccadilly April 28, 2021 5:07 PM BST
You must have missed the horses win over an, AW champions day sprint winner?
Report Whippin Piccadilly April 28, 2021 5:13 PM BST
Probably does need a really fast pace on up front to show his best. No fluke about this win though IMO
Report onthejim April 28, 2021 5:15 PM BST
What sort of a good thing was it at Newcastle that day?, even after giving them 10L start!!
Report GEORGE.B April 28, 2021 5:16 PM BST
What has that got to do with Bravado?

They've only met once since on *Polytrack*, when on official ratings Bravdo was 1lb better off, and he beat Rohaan by nearly double what he had at Lingfield.

But funnily enough WP, you didn't being this thread back up that evening?

And when Bravado more than confirmed the form that evening, it should have been acknowledged that Keenan had been the subject of an injustice.
Report Whippin Piccadilly April 28, 2021 5:21 PM BST
Injustice? Laugh
Report The Management April 28, 2021 5:22 PM BST
Still nobody has explained all the £5k lay bets (that weren't "fill or kill") that went up leap-frogging each other in-running on Rohaan on January 2nd.
Report Whippin Piccadilly April 28, 2021 5:26 PM BST
I didn't bring the thread back after his win over a future AW champion winner (at Lingfield) either....but it was G3 today so I thought it was deserving of an airing on this occasion Grin
Report GEORGE.B April 28, 2021 5:28 PM BST
Keenan's 10 day ban was someone's opinion.

When Bravado more than confirmed the form on the same surface, that was *FACT*.
Report Whippin Piccadilly April 28, 2021 5:28 PM BST
3yo, still improving with racing.....George Scott must be a little miffed.
Report De_man April 29, 2021 9:26 AM BST
There really shouldnt be a betting undustry or people allowed to place bets i  an industry where John Gosden comes out and defends Havlin saying i dont like my 2 yr olds touched with whip or encouraged to obtain best possible position in a race .. absurd industry ... needs to have more accountability and structure like Australia here ...
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