Is it time for a Covid REFERENDUM?

sparrow 27 Nov 20 15:42 
An excellent posting by smirnoff at 01.13 describing the reality of the situation within the NHS and the appalling attitude of many people at the present time.

sparrow and his phoney outrage, try being appalled at this reality within the NHS..

A care worker who missed out on three vital medical appointments due to the pandemic has been told she has an aggressive cancer over Zoom. Kimberley Eccles, 23, spent six months in pain as a tumour grew in her left cheek, eventually leading to her collapsing at work and being rushed to hospital.

However the appointments coincided with the start of lockdown and were cancelled as coronavirus ripped through the country.

How many others? hundreds? thousands?

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/26/mum-told-she-has-months-to-live-on-zoom
-after-missing-appointments-due-to-covid-13660600/

what are the choices for this referendum ? seems to me theres only 2 real choices


A let covid run riot killing all elderly , vulnerable and a large portion of NHS staff

B protect life


your choice decides the type of society you wish to live in also , remember that

tho tbh the far right arent really a society , more a collection of unbalanced individuals

hello, Stockholm has a population of nearly one million, they haven't locked down and no forced wearing of face masks

please enlighten us as to why this hasn't happened in that city:

A let covid run riot killing all elderly , vulnerable and a large portion of NHS staff

So far this virus has cost the UK £6 million per covid death, cannot see how we recover from that within 10 years. When the handouts stop it's going to be dog eat dog.

Ferguson and his Imperial College pals were predicting tens of thousands of deaths by May 1st if they didn't lock down in Sweden

It didn't happen.

There is a high proportion of single-occupancy households in Sweden.

The number of households in Sweden was approximately 4.7 million in 2019, housing 10.33 million inhabitants.  More than half of households are single-person, the highest proportion in the EU.

By comparison, in the UK, there are approximately 8 million single-occupancy households out of a total of about 28 million.

This is a deadly disease though IAWN, and they're not locking down and they're not wearing face masks, and their average age of covid victims is 81.

But hey, it all cuz of single households innit, stands to reason lke, don't it?

They're the numbers.  People can draw their own conclusions.

Personally, I think it does stand to reason that a person living alone has a significantly lower risk of catching the virus than someone in a family unit.

don't those people mix in society then IAWN, pubs, restaurants, etc, or all they all loners who avoid social interaction?

Sweden admits it is seeing no sign of herd immunity slowing the spread of Covid-19 as number of cases soars

As of Tuesday, Sweden has registered 17,265 new coronavirus cases since Friday

Its death rate per-capita is several times higher than its Nordic neighbour's

Sweden's healthcare watchdog condemned the way elderly have been treated

The IVO noted how some elderly people were left to die without a medical exam



folks , i give you herd immunity

Of course they do but so will those living in multi-occupancy dwellings.  No one said the risk was nil.

I don't know about you, but the anti-lockdown folk keep saying that the risk in pubs and restaurants is low.  As it happens, they may well be correct.

or

Swedes question Covid-19 approach as second wave hits
Sharp rise in cases has forced government to bring in controls, raising fears of split with health officials

or

Swedish Life Expectancy to Drop for First Time in Century Due to Covid-19



when the time comes to look back im thinking it will be very hard for sweden

nick

i think the reason we are in a mess again is due to entire uk cramming into restaurants in august

slogan should have been Eat out to shut the UK down for the winter

hello :-) 28 Nov 20 00:26 
or

Swedes question Covid-19 approach as second wave hits
Sharp rise in cases has forced government to bring in controls, raising fears of split with health officials

So what controls have they brought in, please?

So despite having been predicted deaths in the tens of thousands by May 1st if they didn't lock down, as of now, nearly 7 months later, they've had 6,681, and this without lockdown and forced mask wearing, and largely among the elderly who presumably had significant and serious co-morbidities.

So the big question is, did the threat to the general public justify what has taken place in this country, lost jobs, destroyed businesses, smashed education, strangled liberty, and generally the government's destruction of society, health , freedom and wealth?

if it turns out many lives were saved its a yes

"IF"?

no guarantees then

or even any evidence that such measures have saved a single life while undoubtedly costing many (eg see above report about delayed cancer diagnosis).

UK deaths 2019: 5% below average
UK deaths 2020: 6% above average.

If you want any more evidence that thatmis all that's happened, the UK average age of death with Covid is 82.4 years, while the average age of death from other causes is 81.5 years.

Mild winter last year, so the frail elderly have enjoyed another year of life. The only thing that's changed is that Covid has gone on the certificate instead of common cold or flu. (The common cold is a massive killer - ten per cent of frail elderly people hospitalized with it die within a month - more than flu, oddly enough, which is only 7%.)

___________

Population density of Stockholm 5,203/km2; Minsk 5695/km2; London 5,701/km2

Stockholm: "Carry on, but be careful." - No corpses in the streets
Minsk: "Ignore it. Watch football and drink vodka." - No corpses in the streets
London: "Ban everything, we're all going to die." - No corpses in the streets

its not been handled well , simple as that

we had purpose built hospitals unused , shouldnt be waiting lists etc

best of lot , we gone through all this for months to control it

only to have the entire UK mingling indoors for 5 days , THEN returning to thier normal networks

it could double overnight and feck easter right up again , when you would hope to be getting back to normal


defies all logic

Nothing makes any difference at all. None whatsoever. All that's happened is that those people who failed do succumb to rhinoviruses, coronaviruses and flu in 2019, thanks to the mild winter, have succumbed to rhinoviruses, coronaviruses and flu instead in 2020.

And a few thousand more on top, of course, thanks to our NHS ignoring strokes, heart attacks, cancer treatment, dentistry, and frankly anything not involving Covid.

Yellow line - 2019 UK deaths 5% below average
Black line - 2020 UK deaths 6% above average.

What else was going to happen, Covid or no Covid?

to some its 6 %

to others its people

screaming from beneaththewaves
Date Joined: 30 Jan 05
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28 Nov 20 02:08
Joined: 30 Jan 05 | Topic/replies: 13,030 | Blogger: screaming from beneaththewaves's blog
Yellow line - 2019 UK deaths 5% below average
Black line - 2020 UK deaths 6% above average.

What else was going to happen, Covid or no Covid?

dashed yellow line - 2014 uk deaths 2% below average
blue line - 2015 uk deaths 2% above average

Exactly, Charlton.

None of what we've gone through this year has made any difference at all. None. Not saved one single life. Just killed a few thousand more through denying them treatment.

I am not as strong on that point as you screaming but the point that it is nowhere near as bad as the headlines make out, I totally agree with. the interesting line will be 2021 where I suspect we'll be back to the 2019 line.

Has anyone witnessed anyone more ignorant or just selfish and stupid as George B and Screamingbeneatheduvet?

If you have then a 9mm would be a reasonable response imvho!!!

i wonder if any one of the lockdown protesters in central london today have had anybody close to them pass away due to coronavirus....i doubt it...i could be wrong but i doubt it.

I wonder if any of the pro lockdown crew have lost their livelihoods or have lost someone to an undiagnosed cancer / other untreated illness...i doubt it

I'd hose the protesters with a water cannon and take away their state benefits/Covid financial assistance. Also, I might check their immigration status. These people are mindless and selfish idiots with too much time and little sense. I'd put them in cubicles next to Covid patients in every hospital in the UK.

One idiot had a banner which said: "My Body My Choice". What about others (more vulnerable) they might spread the virus to? They remind me of smokers before the Kings Cross tube fire preaching their right to smoke in public. These people could consider emigrating to another cuntry eg New Zealand, Australia, Japan or any country that will help them.

You guess wrong then Jet,showing your ignorance on here just like George and Screaming!!!

Livelihood before death, really? There's absolutely no comparison. If one is dead, one will not need a livelihood.

impossible123, when the government has finished destroying as many jobs and businesses as possible, who is going to pay for the NHS, cuz there ain't going to be many paying taxes, and those who do will be helping to pay back the debt that rishinomics has inflicted on the country.

You wreck the economy you wreck a country's standard of living, and that includes having a decent NHS, cuz there won't be any money to pay for it.

Then how many lives will be lost?

Same shower of shyte I policed for decades a la Greenham Common etc,all cowards,all selfish,all ignorant and undeserving,water cannon?

9MM through the temporal lobe.NAP

i wonder also if all the covid non believers are volunteering/working  in high risk covid occupations..i doubt it..i could be wrong but i doubt it.

George you are becoming worse than a joke,where has ANY Government destroyed their countries economy?

As far as I can see or observe every country has acted to control the world economy and done to date a good job including the 3rd world and despots like Trump and Borris?

Still getting your benefits are you? The one economy not to suffer........the scrounging,feckless morons!!!

impossible123, let's start at the beginning, where does the money come from to fund the NHS?

That's right, general taxation supplemented by National Insurance contributions.

If millions of jobs are lost, less is collected in taxes and more money is needed to pay benefits to the millions of new unemployed.

Less money = cuts = an underfunded NHS = lives lost.

Ye follow?

A high take-up of the vaccine will speed up the process of the relaxing o restrictions.

You could not follow a trail unless it led to your benefits George..........FACT!!!!

You should reflect on your own contribution to the life you have now!!!

Tell us where you have made a positive contribution that entitles you to make your statements?

i have a feeling george b may be a stone thrower(from the back) whos never put himself in the front line........i could be wrong but i doubt it.

Asdaa may help!!!

23nights, bereft of the intellect to even attempt a response to my 20:23 post, simply posts any inane sh*t.

And no doubt thinks he's being witty with it.

glen, he has a different opinion, he's entitled to it, some agree with him, some don't, some of it may be political, some of it may be personal, doesn't really matter it's his view

I'm astonished non-Covid believers have yet to cotton on to the positive and negative developments in countries like New Zealand, Australia, Japan, etc when lockdown or stricter Covid measures were introduced and then relaxed.

Who can dispute the fact during 1st lockdown the contraction rate took a node-dive, but shot up again after? I think it's sad some her e are using Covid for political reasons rather than health and safety of the UK public.

Why not answer the questions asked of yourself George?

Cannot be difficult if the truth?

ive never met or heard from a covid non believer or restriction lifter whos lost someone close to coronavirus.the point being when it impacts you or your familys life your opinion changes...pontificate and theorise as much as you like but when the worst happens close to you i have no doubt your views will change.

Are people thick?
It has nothing to do about people under 60 getting covid. It's about protecting the National Health so that if you have a heart attack , get run over,etc., you can actually get a bed in hospital and get treatment. Is it that much of  a strain to wear a mask and not see people for 6 months  or go to the pub (you are allowed to drink at home!).......how the hell did we get through 2 world wars ...get a grip!

END OF THREAD

Why bother asking,all about generations and their "Human Rights" to be uphill gardeners,deprivation of a smart phone etc etc.

Tbf only the UK and USA have demonstrated this on a large scale,the rest of us are doing what is right??? Not before conflict btw,but the UK is the sick man/woman of the entire globe AGAIN!!!! Makes me ashamed.

WHOKNOWSTHEBOWLER 28 Nov 20 21:00 
Are people thick?
It has nothing to do about people under 60 getting covid. It's about protecting the National Health so that if you have a heart attack , get run over,etc., you can actually get a bed in hospital and get treatment. Is it that much of  a strain to wear a mask and not see people for 6 months  or go to the pub (you are allowed to drink at home!).......how the hell did we get through 2 world wars ...get a grip!

Yes, to your first question, WHOKNOWSTHEBOWLER, *YOU*

Are many people are getting knocked down during lockdown measures? I'm not saying there isn't, but obviously less people at work, less people driving, far fewer accidents on the road.

As for coronary and cancer services, any number of reports and statistics of people not seeking diagnosis / treatment in significant numbers, or appointments being cancelled or delayed, and I posted one such example on this thread, which you evidently haven't read.

And as for masks, presumably you're unaware of the major study that has taken place in Denmark this year that has shown there to be no proof that they are of any benefit. Which of course is what Whitty, Fauci and their pals originally said at the outset before they *all* changed their minds for whatever reason in late June.

According to a Newsnight reporter at the time, her WHO sources told her that the WHO only changed their advice on masks after political lobbying.

TIME GEORGE to ANSWER questions asked of YOU?

Nov 28, 2020 -- 8:49PM, 23nights wrote:

ive never met or heard from a covid non believer or restriction lifter whos lost someone close to coronavirus.the point being when it impacts you or your familys life your opinion changes...pontificate and theorise as much as you like but when the worst happens close to you i have no doubt your views will change.

i wonder if george has got consideration or courage to comment on this statement i made earlier ..

the

Sorry 23nights, I didn't realise you were waiting for a reply.

Every death is a tragedy to someone, but that shouldn't prevent people from asking: are the measures being taken proportional to the risk to the general public, do they work, and what are their costs in terms of loss of life because of the lockdown eg delayed cancer diagnoses, suicides, poverty caused through lost livelihoods, etc.

You may have read over the last couple of days about 70 Tory MPs threatening to rebel over the measures being proposed by their own government, so it's not just people on social media and forums questioning these measures, there is dissent within the government's own party.

GEORGE will you take the vaccine when it's rolled out?

Well let's see if and when they make it mandatory, striding, it could be we won't have a choice.

George will do nothing left to him,left to some he will be running VERY soon?

They won't make it mandatory. I'm asking If it's your choice will you take it?

george ..my point is this out of these MPs..and the restriction protesters im wondering if and how many have lost someone close but still thought the lifting of restictions is worth it ...i would like to wager not many....because then it becomes REAL .

A bit of a climbdown by Johnson in an attempt to get the 70 MPs onside.

.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lockdown-tiers-boris-johnson-sunset-clause-mps-b1763339.html

glen for the record I've always liked GEORGE on here. Don't necessarily agree with him over some of this Covid stuff but It's not black and white for anyone.

straight answer unlike george....i will take the vaccine.

GUTLESS and SPINELESS individual that cannot answer a direct or even indirect question..........George?

Your choice striding,you once accused me of lying,I never did. He has consistently,he is a low life troll and always has been.

to george b i will rephrase stridings question..if its not mandatory will you take the vaccine..

The vaccine won't be mandatory but it's highly likely you'll be barred from certain activities without it.  Certain airlines, for example.

You said soemthing that wasn't true with your strike rates Glen and you went mental when I pointed out what you were saying couldn't be true.

You then came back later and said I was right and you had made a mistake?

That;s what happened.

I did actually say you are either talking BS or you have made an error in our argument.

23nights, in 1968/69, 80,000 died from the Hong Kong 'flu, in 2017/18 there were 50,000 excess deaths when the flu vaccine failed.

Excess deaths from winter respiratory diseases is nothing new, however the powers-that-be for whatever reason have decided to damage the economy and take away civil liberties for this one. What has happened in Sweden would suggest the modelling predictions of hundreds of thousands of deaths was grossly exaggerated..

IAWN, thanks for the link.

striding / 23nights, I haven't decided yet.

I do not think so striding,I explained,you were the one who obsessed,that is fact.

George,

People couldn't really work form home in 1968.  Obviously no internet but also far fewer office-based jobs.

Also, I think a vaccine was developed very quickly.

i think all the covid deniers and restriction protesters should in some way volunteer to help out the nhs in dec and january ..i would then have the utmost respect and admiration for them..i can tell you now there is not ONE covid denier or restriction protester who works for our brave and wonderful NHS.

NOT one been able to confirm a JOB yet?

glentoby28 Nov 20 22:56Joined: 12 Mar 06 | Topic/replies: 13,391 | Blogger: glentoby's blog

I do not think so striding,I explained,you were the one who obsessed,that is fact.

GLen you pr1ck you said you had an 87% strike rate and I explained that was impossible you chucked your toys out the pram and then later said you had made a mistake.

How much do you want to bet I can prove this bringing the thread back?

Are you p1ssed tonight?

Around their claims?

IAWN, in 1968 did they force businesses to close for weeks / months on end?

I say I like GEORGE and you get a hissy fit what a fcuking **** you are.

Get some help you have a real problem.

George,

In response to your point about the 2017/18 flu...

The vaccine may have been ineffective but there is an element of inherent immunity within the population to flu.  SARS-COV-2 is a novel virus and predictions were 500,000 deaths if we did nothing.

Little more to be proved,you ALL swam into the net,NONE of your user names could pass a test when tested in terms of simple questions..........FACT!!!

Assume I am pissed,where does it leave you lot? SDCs

IAWN, in 1968 did they force businesses to close for weeks / months on end?


No but as I said, they found a vaccine pretty quickly.  Also, there would have been some immunity.

george you are safe and warm at home..while some people TONIGHT are desperately planning how stop to get their ICU units getting over run.exeter are already using their nightingale hospital....my point is this george b.. go out and do something to help if you feel youve got nothing to fear ...

Thick as pigshyte moronic muppets...........not one of you can defend your MULTI user names never mind face reality.

Shameful and I hope you all face the reality some of us have had to deal with,COWARDLY is a kind word for you all!!!

glen..why do you do this..you sound like a decent bloke most of the time and then you go off the deep end.it does you no favours.

George,

Also, covid is far more infectious than flu and has a longer incubation period not to mention the high rate of asymptomatic cases and the long-covid phenomenon.

23nights28 Nov 20 23:08
george you are safe and warm at home..while some people TONIGHT are desperately planning how stop to get their ICU units getting over run.exeter are already using their nightingale hospital....my point is this george b.. go out and do something to help if you feel youve got nothing to fear ...

Don't ICUs get overrun every winter respiratory disease season?
Only last year there was an advertising campaign urging people not to contact GPs / go to hospital unnecessarily.

But please do keep on with the virtue signalling.

No point unless it is the TRUTH? 23 NIGHTS?

Notice not a SINGLE response asking for just that?

glentoby ..dont get hung up with people like george b ...karma will arrive for selfish people.

That I know,I wish none any harm and only for them to recognise the harm ignorance can cause e.g 27/08/1979 as only ONE example!!!

i agree i dont wish anyone to come to harm....i simply trying to say to all the deniers and restriction lifters that i have no doubt their views would change if someone very close to them passed away due to covid..

No it wouldn't. And I'll even speak for myself, if I'm ill with it, I don't expect the world to stop for me, cuz that really would be "SELFISH"!

23nights, if there is another strain comes from China next year, and then another the year after, are we going to keep on locking people in their homes and destroying what's left of the economy with the catastrophic consequences of doing so, ad infinitum?

glentoby28 Nov 20 20:11Joined: 12 Mar 06 | Topic/replies: 13,397 | Blogger: glentoby's blog
Same shower of shyte I policed for decades a la Greenham Common etc,all cowards,all selfish,all ignorant and undeserving,water cannon?

9MM through the temporal lobe.NAP


Revelling in a public-sector pension. Explains everything.

If it's another strain of this virus, there will be immunity within the community.  It will also be possible to adapt the vaccine.

they missed an opportunity in about 2003 i think when the sars epidemic happened.they managed to stop it quickly but then they stopped almost all vaccine research on said sars vaccine...i cant see that happening again.

Twitter who the f u ck believes anything on Twitter oh dear oh dear....

Apart from Mark Usher bigging up his horse the other night (Thanks Punts)

Nov 29, 2020 -- 12:52AM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:

FAKE virusFAKE testsFAKE numbersEven the most stupid are seeing through these government lies.NWO can fook off.

fake virus ?..got to be a wind up..or pissed that time of night

This thread clearly demonstrates why a referendum is a very bad idea.

^^

Imagine asking the opinion of this sort of person.