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Wesdag
19 Oct 20 20:17
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Date Joined: 05 Aug 09
| Topic/replies: 16,156 | Blogger: Wesdag's blog
who wouldn't if you're paid 80% wages to sit at home & do phuck all?
Pause Switch to Standard View 67% support for second lockdown.
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Report salmon spray October 20, 2020 10:59 AM BST
The problem with just building up herd immunity,apart from the dubious ethics,is that the hospitals will be overwhelmed. That's why we had the lockdown in the first place. Then Boris (and other European leaders ) gave into the caterwauling of multi-millionaires like Branson,Martin and O'Leary ( remember he was going to sue the government. What happened to that project ? ). If they had held on for another couple of months rather than encouraging people to go on holiday,eat out ( financial incentives for that ffs )and return to work even if they didn't have to,then I think the chances are we would be on the way to getting rid of this virus instead of it flourishing again. Why do so many posters on here sound just like Donald Trump,who most sane people think is mad.
Report Magic__Daps October 20, 2020 12:18 PM BST
Salmon - so you think another 2 months and the virus would have just vanished into think air? Do we stop people working in factories, shops, delivery drivers, imports, exports, chemists, etc etc, the list just goes on and on. I mean it won't ever come back will it?

You tell me what the positives are of locking up the fit and healthy for months rather than just trying to shield the vulnerable, when the virus has a minimal effect on them? You seriously think that all of these fit and healthy would overwhelm hospitals by catching Covid? 300 deaths out of 45000 currently of the under 60s. Add in the fact of all the other excess deaths in the last 6 months (currently 26000) and the lockdown plan did not work the first time did it? If it did where did all these excess deaths come from? Operation fear working well with the mainstream media.

As for mentioning Trump, what the hell has that got to do with what anybody thinks? I don't really know what his full plan of tackling is, he could be right, and he could be wrong, we will only know in many years time. But to want to basically call people mad because they maybe agree or think the same way on one subject is a little bit strange imo.
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 12:44 PM BST
The problem with lockdowns is that unless you are on top of infections (through testing and track and trace), IT IS INEVITABLE that it will spread again once you start to open things up again.  The argument for stopping the NHS from being overwhelmed is the only evenly vaguely viable argument for another "firebreak", but fundamentally, all you are doing is delaying the inevitable, inflicting more pain and suffering on the remaining 99% of the population who have very little to worry about from COVID itself.

We are not doing any of the other stuff well enough for there to be a more favourable outcome.
Report salmon spray October 20, 2020 12:49 PM BST
We had a proper lockdown from March,probably a bit late but I would forgive the government for that. Most people followed the restrictions,and of course some people had to and did work,NHS,carers, necessary retail and other key workers. I quite accept you can't have 65 million at home.As a result the prevalence of the virus fell remarkably but was still at what turned out an unmanageable level given the track and trace fiasco Sometime in the summer the type of people I mentioned above clearly started to put pressure on Johnson,who frankly did a u-turn. Go abroad,go to tghe pub,eat out,go back to the office or get sacked. Surprise,surprise the virus is out of control again. I doubt we can eradicate it entirely but whether or not you believe everything that comes out of China it is clear they have it at least well under control. Australia had a major second wave resurgence in one state a month or two ago but they have taken strict measures and seem to be winning.
It IS possible we will always have outbursts of the thing unless and until we get a vaccine or the virus mutates to become relatively harmless,which is what happened with the particular flu virus of 1918-20,but until then we need to stamp on it HARD,or not only will 100s of thousands die,others including young people will suffer long-term consequences and the economy really will be sunk.
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 12:52 PM BST
It is INEVITABLE, SS.  We aren't testing people WE KNOW to have been in close contact with those who have tested positive unless they are symptomatic.  They are still to put a definitive figure on the percentage of infections that are entirely asymptomatic, but the ball park figure is approximately 50%!  You CANNOT stop it spreading until you test the right people.
Report Magic__Daps October 20, 2020 1:38 PM BST
Salmon - you still haven't said what good it does locking up the fit and healthy when the virus isn't really an issue to the very high majority of those people. As long as those people do not really mix with the vulnerable then why would there be hundreds of thousands of deaths - when only 300 of under 60s have died in the last 6 months from the virus?

You are saying young people will suffer longterm without a lockdown and the economy will be sunk? That is exactly what a lockdown is doing, has done in the previous months. Young people need to get their education, businesses need to operate, people need to get employment etc etc.

You haven't even mentioned the excess deaths of 26,000 people in the last 6 months either, are these acceptable to you?
Report GAZO October 20, 2020 1:58 PM BST
how do you stop the fit and healthy mixing with the older and vulnerable people without keeping one of the groups pretty much locked away
Report Storm Alert October 20, 2020 2:01 PM BST
Magic__Daps - 1. Why do we need to lockdown a whole country when only 300 people (under 60) have died of this virus out of 45,000?

Where did you get that figure of under 300? This from england.nhs.uk/statistic site 02/04/20-14/10/20 (so not even from the patient zero start):
   
Age group
Total 30,743
                   
00-19 21
20-39 220
40-59 2,358
60-79 11,724
80+++ 16,420

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
Report salmon spray October 20, 2020 2:03 PM BST
The excess deaths are at least in part due to people being frightened of seeking treatment for other things because of Covid. I have some personal experience of this as I have a heart problem and saw a specialist in Feb who was pretty certain I needed surgery. Understandably everything did grind to a halt for 3 months. I was invited for an echocardiogram in June. After a bit of dithering I decided to go. A few days beforehand they rang meto see if I was going. I said yes but made some remark it being later in the day than ideal. Oh they had had some cancellations and could offer me more suitable times. As they offered me just about any time under the sun I think we can take it they had a lot of cancellations. And I was not in the shielding group and didn't expect to be given it was about 2'5 million out of 65. To get me in I think you would have to expand it to 8m at least,as I am not as old as has been suggested. An awful lot of people to deliver food to,check up on etc.
The idea that you can just let younger people rip and catch the thing and it won't spread up the age-groups one way or another is daft to put it bluntly. That's what's happening now and why hospitals in Liverpool are close to being overstretched again.
Moreover your solution seems to depend on herd immunity and the virologists don't know if that exists ( Donald Trump isn't a virologist ). Having the disease MAY give you some sort of immunity but for how long nobody seems to have a clue.
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 2:18 PM BST

Oct 20, 2020 -- 3:01PM, Storm Alert wrote:


Magic__Daps - 1. Why do we need to lockdown a whole country when only 300 people (under 60) have died of this virus out of 45,000?Where did you get that figure of under 300? This from england.nhs.uk/statistic site 02/04/20-14/10/20 (so not even from the patient zero start):

Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 2:18 PM BST
The number I saw (admittedly a few weeks ago now) was that 318 people under 60 had died WITH COVID-19 and no co-morbidity (which is very clearly the factor that changes things significantly).
Report salmon spray October 20, 2020 2:21 PM BST
Right. So if you're fat,diabetic,have had cancer or have AIDS you don't count ?
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 2:26 PM BST
My view would be that they should be shielding. 

As I said above, 99% of people are being dragged into something which has very little to do with them due to the inadequacies of this government.
Report elise October 20, 2020 2:34 PM BST
if you went with overweight/obese having to shield mcdonalds may as well pull out of the uk
Report Storm Alert October 20, 2020 2:52 PM BST
1-4 adults obese, 1-5 children over 10yo obese. 65% of adult population over weight. 1-10 diabetic and many other pre-conditions that increase risk. I think 99% is a little off Latalomne.
Report Magic__Daps October 20, 2020 2:53 PM BST
Salmon - they are classed as vulnerable groups and need shielding.

So you think we shouldn't let the fit and healthy get on with their lives for fear of passing it on to the vulnerable - even though many of them won't be passing it on to the vulnerable, and we should lock all of them away, ruining their own lives and futures, and the economy in the process. Before the mental health crisis that will be on its' way.

If youngsters in Liverpool are partying and then mixing with the vulnerable, and passing it on, then that is down to them and not the fact that the fit and healthy shouldn't be allowed to get on with their lives (within reason). I would still like to know the actual figures of covid patients in these Liverpool hospitals and see how overwhelmed they actually are. It could well be like London that are on the verge of going into tier 3 (due to overwhelming the NHS) with a total of 1.5% of beds taken up by Covid patients at the moment. Plus the headline news of "the Nightingale hospitals are ready for the second wave".

Immunity may not last but the 5 people who have so say caught it twice out of 40-50 million suggests at the moment it does work. If we are going to just guess it won't work forever then how long do we lock up those who have had it before a vaccine is available (if ever)? 3 months, 6 months, 5 years?

At some point we do have to just get on with it, especially the people who are at a ridiculously minimal risk.

As for mentioning Trump (again), why bother. Is nobody allowed to agree with a single thing he says just because you don't like him? I do agree he isn't a virologist though, but neither are the majority of people with opinions, and the virologists, scientists, experts etc all have differing opinions.
Report salmon spray October 20, 2020 2:54 PM BST
More than a bit. Must be 10m or more above 60 as well.
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 2:55 PM BST
99% of the population are not going to die from it.
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 2:58 PM BST
Why should MY livelihood suffer because people choose to not look after themselves?
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:00 PM BST
anybody advocating lockdowns is (a) dumb (b) brainwashed (c) selfish or (d) all of the above
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 3:00 PM BST
Mortality rate from deaths / KNOWN infections is between 3 and 4%.  Asymptomatic rate approx 50%, so I'll let you have 98% of people being dragged into something which has nothing to do with them.
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:01 PM BST
shield vulnerable groups IF they want to be shielded
everybody else get on with their lives
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:04 PM BST
Latalomne • October 20, 2020 2:26 PM BST
As I said above, 99% of people are being dragged into something which has very little to do with them due to the inadequacies of this government.

not just this govt lats, we are seeing all around the world, its globally coordinated
isn't accidental negligence imo
Report Storm Alert October 20, 2020 3:08 PM BST
Because you are part of society, the purpose of which is too serve all of our needs for survival. Harnessing the resources and abilities of others in order to increase individuals chances of survival and improve individuals quality of life.
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 3:08 PM BST
It's going to destroy EVERYBODY's quality of life for decades to come.
Report Magic__Daps October 20, 2020 3:09 PM BST
wonders - don't mention other countries, they are all doing great. We have to be known as the worst, followed by the USA (or rather Trumps USA) - that's how the media works.
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:10 PM BST

Oct 20, 2020 -- 4:08PM, Latalomne wrote:


It's going to destroy EVERYBODY's quality of life for decades to come.


agree...and it already has lats

and we've only had act 1 scene 1

Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 3:10 PM BST

Oct 20, 2020 -- 4:04PM, wondersobright wrote:


Latalomne • October 20, 2020 2:26 PM BSTAs I said above, 99% of people are being dragged into something which has very little to do with them due to the inadequacies of this government.not just this govt lats, we are seeing all around the world, its globally coordinatedisn't accidental negligence imo


The longer it goes on, the more I am coming around to your way of thinking, mate.  We are half-arsing absolutely everything.  Can't make testing work, can't make track and trace work....

Report GAZO October 20, 2020 3:15 PM BST
half-arsing is the reason it will go on for longer,either do nothing or go all out to sort it,its no good like boris said early on that he is not closing pubs but he doesnt want you to go in or wear masks in shops but if you dont nothing will happen to you
Report elise October 20, 2020 3:15 PM BST
they'll never make track n trace work to the levels req to make a difference
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 3:17 PM BST
They're not testing those who they KNOW have had close contact with those confirmed to have tested positive.  Those people then have to self-isolate for 14 days but none of the rest of their household does!  Given 50% asymptomatic rate, it's no wonder it's still spreading, is it?!
Report elise October 20, 2020 3:20 PM BST
lat, they're not testing 90% of the people that have covid either because they don't go for a test or they are asymptomatic, the number of positive tests is scratching the surface before they even fail to contact a large chunk of the ones that they supposedly do know about
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:24 PM BST
the testing procedure is a complete farce lats

RT-PCR test was never intended to identify infectious disease
during the spring when testing was done on the sick, around 10% of these tests were coming out positive
now testing is mostly being done on the healthy, around 1% of these tests are coming out positive
given that the false positive rate is around 1%, there is nothing going on!!
work the maths out its approx 9 in every 10 positive result is actually false
dominic raab even said on interview on sky its about 7% successful (ie 93% not)

the healthy are (deliberately imo) being labelled as sick to justify a completely new way of life being ushered in
"the new normal"
also known as fascism, which is neither new nor normal
Report Magic__Daps October 20, 2020 3:25 PM BST
Track and trace will never work, the amount of people who say "they are not having my details" is crazy. Most of these people will then moan that it isn't working or cases aren't going down.
Report elise October 20, 2020 3:30 PM BST
all that lockdowns will achieve is to delay the spread short-term, there will still be a covid issue because some people are still working/going to school/traveling/etc and as soon as folk start returning to normal it will escalate again, in the meantime millions are going to lose their jobs, without a vaccine this is something that won't go away, all we're doing is death by a thousand cuts
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:39 PM BST
those pinning their hopes on a vaccine best keep drinking the kool aid imo but other than that your post is spot on elise
Report salmon spray October 20, 2020 3:41 PM BST
wondersobright wanders on with his ridiculous conspiracy theories. David Icke has a lot to answer for.
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:45 PM BST
do explain salmon, sounds interesting...
Report elise October 20, 2020 3:48 PM BST
i didn't say we'd get one wonders, certainly think we've gone down a long road which will grind this nation into the ground before we get covid off the front page
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:51 PM BST
they'll roll 1 or more out eventually elise but every year flu kills 10-30k people in the UK, approx 650k worldwide
yet they've been administering flu jabs for years
Report Latalomne October 20, 2020 3:52 PM BST
Vallance said today that it'll likely be around forever, even with a vaccine (we certainly have no plans to give it to the young).
Report elise October 20, 2020 3:53 PM BST
probably, i can see both sides but if you don't eradicate covid via a lockdown you're still not safe as an older/vulnerable person, you can't see it, you don't know who has it, you can't hide away for the next 3 years, so at some point you'll likely catch it
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:55 PM BST

Oct 20, 2020 -- 4:52PM, Latalomne wrote:


Vallance said today that it'll likely be around forever, even with a vaccine (we certainly have no plans to give it to the young).


that's right lats, respiratory problems will be
they are nothing new & they are not going away

Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 3:59 PM BST

Oct 20, 2020 -- 4:53PM, elise wrote:


probably, i can see both sides but if you don't eradicate covid via a lockdown you're still not safe as an older/vulnerable person, you can't see it, you don't know who has it, you can't hide away for the next 3 years, so at some point you'll likely catch it


proper nutrition, clean water, fresh air, sunlight, exercise, low stress, low radiation exposure, regular positive social contact

this is the message everybody should be getting but especially those in that category
they will improve their chances of surviving dramatically

sat indoors all day, worrying, alone, is the last thing they need to be doing

Report elise October 20, 2020 4:08 PM BST
i agree, talking about lockdowns doesn't touch on other issues such as mental health, financial hardship, relationship pressures, we're stacking up huge problems in so many other areas and as i said above, if you can't eradicate it with a lockdown what's the exit plan here?
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 4:16 PM BST
there isn't 1

hence we'll get the indefinite imposition of restrictions or lockdown
Report Larabrown October 20, 2020 5:21 PM BST
Latalomne20 Oct 20 14:58
Why should MY livelihood suffer because people choose to not look after themselves?


This disgraceful, inhumane comment tells us all that we need to know about these people.

Fortunately informed, intelligent, qualified, decent medics are spelling things out clearly on BBC1.
Report MJK October 20, 2020 5:24 PM BST

Oct 20, 2020 -- 5:08PM, elise wrote:


i agree, talking about lockdowns doesn't touch on other issues such as mental health, financial hardship, relationship pressures, we're stacking up huge problems in so many other areas and as i said above, if you can't eradicate it with a lockdown what's the exit plan here?


I might be stating the obvious here but aren't lockdowns to minimise the casualties until the vaccine comes along?

Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk October 20, 2020 5:27 PM BST
I've turned on bbc1 to watch Pointless. And it's on.
Report elise October 20, 2020 5:41 PM BST
mjk, a lockdown doesn't reduce the covid deaths, it lengthens the timeframe over which people catch it and those deaths happen, the idea behind a lockdown, was that that the nhs might be better equipped to deal with the pandemic alongside normal workload, problem is they've tossed normal stuff out the window as in cancer treatments & screenings, routine ops etc and we're creating an even bigger problem there too
Report paulo47 October 20, 2020 6:03 PM BST
Why are there no figures that breakdown our current hospitalised Covid cases by agegroup , ethnicity ,  gender and any preexisting health conditions ?
Report elise October 20, 2020 6:07 PM BST
probably another scandal they're trying to avoid
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 6:19 PM BST
As an infrequent visitor recently due to health issues I still question the OP as to his/her objective posting on THIS forum,a few questions for the OP.
1.Are you female?
2.Did you suffer covid19?
3.What was/is your other user name (s)
4.Why a non horse or betting related thread more suited to agony aunt/politics forum?
5.Why get replies deleted that tell you to Foxtrot Oscar to politics?

Simple questions many have asked previously,no credible answers to date,over to you "Larabrown"?
Report wondersobright October 20, 2020 6:39 PM BST
well worth 9 minutes of your time...

.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxxEW29Gvo&t=71s
Report Larabrown October 20, 2020 6:47 PM BST
glentoby, sorry to hear you`re ill. Just a couple of little points:

If you were well enough to read the thread you`ll remember that I said I`d show respect to elderly gentlemen no matter what they said. Oh yes, also - this is still on the thread so not quite sure what you meant really Tiger Tiger19
100% support for lara brown to fcuk off to the politics forum.

Anyway, things are clearly tough. Get well soon.
Report leif October 20, 2020 6:51 PM BST

Oct 20, 2020 -- 7:19PM, glentoby wrote:


As an infrequent visitor recently due to health issues I still question the OP as to his/her objective posting on THIS forum,a few questions for the OP.1.Are you female?2.Did you suffer covid19?3.What was/is your other user name (s)4.Why a non horse or betting related thread more suited to agony aunt/politics forum?5.Why get replies deleted that tell you to Foxtrot Oscar to politics?Simple questions many have asked previously,no credible answers to date,over to you "Larabrown"?


Glen just a heads-up. Larabrown is Veritas/mfordy/johngrace/ascotboy et al.  PMSL

Report glentoby October 20, 2020 6:52 PM BST
Too many politics,too much bullshit when common sense overides the "Science",not solely UK.However most of Europe that is not corrupt and afraid of civil backlash have adopted the common sense combined with science approach,even the corrupt have gone for the common sense route.

Exactly a year ago I got the news I never expected or wanted,Covid delayed the proposed treatment in early January,unlike the UK and USA which waited until March to tell the populations the reality of the virility of the virus.

So called 2nd and 3rd world countries reacted before the "Superpowers" and are now in a better position to tackle the pandemic,the threat now perceived as the so called 1st world economy countries.
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 6:55 PM BST
I just wish the answers to the simple questions Larabrown,that way the forum will know your objectives?
Report Storm Alert October 20, 2020 6:58 PM BST
paulo47 - Why are there no figures that breakdown our current hospitalised Covid cases by agegroup , ethnicity ,  gender and any preexisting health conditions ?

Try here (COVID-19 Daily Deaths & COVID-19 Hospital Activity):
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/

wondersobright - well worth 9 minutes of your time...
Yes worth listening but I don't agree with much of what he has said.

elise - mjk, a lockdown doesn't reduce the covid deaths
Of course it does, incredible you could think otherwise. For example how many Italians died in Lombardy because they ran out of beds to treat patients seriously ill with Covid-19 in March/April? Lockdown slows the rate of infection to try and avoid hospitals being overwhelmed.
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 7:00 PM BST
Just to help.........I know nothing about ebay,table tennis,dismissed from jobs with children,mad hair professor type,Armando etc etc!!! Nor given up locking deviants up and throwing away the key albeit as a passive observer from far away!!!
Report hulk23 October 20, 2020 7:17 PM BST
buy yourself a scented candle.  if you can smell it crack on, if you can't stay in your house until you can.

job done.  you're welcome.
Report elise October 20, 2020 7:22 PM BST
disagree storm, it slows deaths during lockdown and they resume once we reopen, the death rates are just peaks and troughs over a longer time frame, we had numerous nightingales ready to go, they could have remained open and taken a large chunk of covid cases out of mainstream nhs reducing risk in our main hospitals, all they are doing is spreading it out, people who are high risk will still be high risk post any restrictions
Report saddo October 20, 2020 7:36 PM BST
They want to slow it to a crawl elise, while they wait for the cavalry (vaccine) and everything else goes to hell. Some people want to avoid it so badly that they care about nothing else.
Report sixtwosix October 20, 2020 7:44 PM BST
I live in Oldham .....we have been under extra measure for months  ..... and now Tier 3 .......if it is so endemic how do I still not know of one person who has had this virus ????
Report metro john October 20, 2020 7:51 PM BST
it's like an elevator dropping at speed with no stop button.
Report ronnie rails October 20, 2020 7:53 PM BST
626
just a quick one did you know the bookmakers Bernard Hough from Oldham.
hope you are well
have a nice evening
regards
Ronnie.
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 7:59 PM BST
A very fair question sixtwosix,I lost my sister in law and niece (my wifes family) early on,both medics,both very fit and healthy.It is ignorance,stupidity and disregard for others that are the ground level denominator.

In short the class/type of spreaders are the same as you would expect on a graph of criminals,then you have to factor in the "Im immune selfish morons,the so perceived intelligent aka students who are actually worse.None of them have experienced hardship,if a war tommorow or future forget the gutless educated and mindless selfish morons we have paid to educate?

Only my opinion btw!!!
Report elise October 20, 2020 8:00 PM BST
they can slow it to a crawl so long as they make it plain to the public that by the time they get a vaccine (who knows when?) there won't be much left in terms of an economy; i think if they put it to a referendum right now they would probably have support, if you told people this might go on another year or even 6 months, i have a feeling the vote may be to take a chance and open up, save the economy and the futures of 60m
Report sixtwosix October 20, 2020 8:12 PM BST
Evening Ronnie ....don't think I do know the gentleman.
Report ronnie rails October 20, 2020 8:49 PM BST
626
Bernard was an oncourse bookmaker from your town mostly tats but had some rails pitches ascot and Cheltenham in a 16 novice hurdle he would price up one horse the fav.
often had a money finder with him a couple of pals went in with him at a 3 day meeting many many moons ago at Ascot I think 14 favs won one of the guys had to sell his business to pay his share Ribero will know the other one.

regards
Ronnie.
Report boga October 21, 2020 5:42 PM BST
UK COVID cases hit the highest ever daily figure of 26,688 still no national lockdown by the government unbelievable
Report Latalomne October 21, 2020 5:48 PM BST
It's only the highest ever daily figure because we were only testing hospital admissions for a very long time.  It's estimated there were over 100,000 daily cases during the initial wave.  That's not to say we won't get there officially this time.
Report saddo October 21, 2020 6:34 PM BST
Unbelievable that people can't see the correlation between more testing and more cases.
Report wondersobright October 21, 2020 6:40 PM BST
exactly saddo

boga • October 21, 2020 5:42 PM BST
UK COVID cases hit the highest ever daily figure of 26,688 still no national lockdown by the government unbelievable


or in fact that these figures are not "cases", they are positive results from an RT-PCR test
which is fundamentally flawed
and which by government estimates would mean that approx 24,800 of those are false positives
the remainder being largely asymptomatic or mild cases
a few being hospitalisations & an even smaller few being deaths

speaking of which, deaths are currently at normal levels in the UK for the time of year
there is no excess mortality & hasn't been any since the spring
check the official figures if you don't believe this
THERE IS NO PANDEMIC...ONLY ON TV!!
Report Storm Alert October 21, 2020 8:10 PM BST
20March-02October excess deaths 54,050 (Expected 253461, Actual registered 307511)

Source Public Health England:
https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html

Unfortunately excess mortality has been rising again in recent weeks.
Report GEORGE.B October 21, 2020 8:41 PM BST
"Lockdown's lethal toll laid bare: 50,000 children see surgery postponed, treatments for strokes plunge by almost 50%, and one in FIVE people were hit with depression in just one month as devastating effect of coronavirus restrictions are revealed"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8856959/Lockdowns-lethal-toll-NHS-vulnerable-patients-laid-bare.html
Report wondersobright October 21, 2020 11:48 PM BST

Oct 21, 2020 -- 9:10PM, Storm Alert wrote:


20March-02October excess deaths 54,050 (Expected 253461, Actual registered 307511)Source Public Health England:https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/... excess mortality has been rising again in recent weeks.


that link leads to an error message

Report wondersobright October 21, 2020 11:54 PM BST
Unfortunately excess mortality has been rising again in recent weeks.

that is false, it has been at normal levels for months & isn't rising

.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923240/Weekly_all-cause_mortality_surveillane_week_40_2020_report.pdf

1 week in england (week 33)
other than that there has not been 1 month of statistically significant excess mortality compared to normal levels since the 1st half of 2020
Report duncan idaho October 22, 2020 8:50 AM BST
recent weeks not months

In Week 41 (week ending Oct 9), the number of deaths registered was 1.5% above the five-year average (143 deaths higher).

Of the deaths registered in Week 41, 438 mentioned "novel coronavirus (COVID-19)", accounting for 4.4% of all deaths in England and Wales; this is an increase of 117 deaths compared with Week 40 (when there were 321 deaths involving COVID-19, accounting for 3.2% of all deaths).


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending9october2020
Report Storm Alert October 22, 2020 8:59 AM BST
Link is good (try again):

https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html

Excess mortality is rising, you're wrong about that as well.
Report Larabrown October 22, 2020 9:04 AM BST
It`s very decent of you to engage with the cranks storm alert.
Report duncan idaho October 22, 2020 9:11 AM BST
glentoby  20 Oct 20 19:59


None of them have experienced hardship,if a war tommorow or future forget the gutless educated and mindless selfish morons we have paid to educate?


Blaming the kids/young adults for this is like overfeeding your dog for 10 years then blaming the dog for being fat. Each generation reflects the society they are born into, so blame those who have created that society (hint: you and me etc), not the kids.
Report wondersobright October 22, 2020 1:09 PM BST

Oct 22, 2020 -- 9:59AM, Storm Alert wrote:


Link is good (try again):https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/e... mortality is rising, you're wrong about that as well.


link is good now

Report wondersobright October 22, 2020 1:16 PM BST
if you look at the "all persons" graph ie all cause mortality
it has been at statistical zero in the UK since the early part of the summer
1% under in week x, 2% over in week y...its noise not signal, simply because of low prevalence of deaths
Report wondersobright October 22, 2020 1:32 PM BST
.
https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-21st-october-2020

ons data same
Report duncan idaho October 22, 2020 1:56 PM BST
it has been at statistical zero in the UK since the early part of the summer


levelled off after huge spike in deaths March/April & 3 months severe lockdown...obvious it would do that (same happens after heatwave deaths etc, the following months see a slight dip)

now it's on the rise again
Report wondersobright October 22, 2020 2:28 PM BST
no but we'll agree to disagree
Report Larabrown October 22, 2020 2:45 PM BST
A good policy when holding your views.
Report Dotchinite October 22, 2020 2:52 PM BST
The question is how many of the excess deaths are related to covid and how many from other things. Anyone seen any studies showing that.
Report wondersobright October 22, 2020 2:59 PM BST
.
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/lockdown-deaths-not-covid-deaths
Report Petraco October 22, 2020 3:04 PM BST
I have to agree with the opening poster.

Being paid to do nothing is very agreeable Cool
Report wondersobright October 22, 2020 3:11 PM BST
yep, I'm sure the cheese used to trap mice is v tasty
Report Larabrown October 22, 2020 5:08 PM BST
Having just watched the PM`s briefing it`s utterly staggering that the crackpots on here exist.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk October 22, 2020 6:42 PM BST
Its staggering the PM exists. Didn't he subject himself to a 'superdose' of covid by shaking hands with many covid sufferers
Nearly did for him
Hardly the actions of an intelligent man. His advisors can't have been too hot either.
Remind me who they are now?
Report Tiger Tiger October 22, 2020 6:59 PM BST
No wonder they closed chit chat down.

Ferk off somewhere else the lot of you.
Report Latalomne October 22, 2020 7:09 PM BST

Oct 22, 2020 -- 7:42PM, Jumping-cuckoo-monk wrote:


Its staggering the PM exists. Didn't he subject himself to a 'superdose' of covid by shaking hands with many covid sufferersNearly did for himHardly the actions of an intelligent man. His advisors can't have been too hot either.Remind me who they are now?


He'd visited Kettering General Hospital when he made that claim, except there weren't any cases in the county at that stage.

Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk October 22, 2020 7:26 PM BST
Tiger Tiger22
No wonder they closed chit chat down.

Ferk off somewhere else the lot of you.


Chit chat was great. You could talk about music on a friday night. Rock and all sorts Cool
Report Larabrown October 22, 2020 7:29 PM BST
Tiger Tiger reads and comments on all these threads. Bright lad.
Report Storm Alert October 23, 2020 9:26 AM BST
Dotchinite - The question is how many of the excess deaths are related to covid and how many from other things. Anyone seen any studies showing that.

Apart from minor statistical variance excess deaths are all related to Covid-19 which is causing deaths by other diseases that otherwise might have been treated. Since a national lockdown was introduced across the UK in March, cancer screening has been suspended, routine diagnostic work deferred, and only urgent symptomatic cases prioritised for diagnostic intervention. More people dying at home of heart related deaths because they delay going to A&E. I know one who was due a hip operation earlier this year and has now been given a new appointment in October 2021.

Anyway today is Cheltenham the start of the NH season proper imo and I going for some light entertainment as in a normal year I would be there. I was gutted to miss the CAMRA meetup at Ascot for the first time in years.
Report wondersobright October 23, 2020 1:40 PM BST
Storm Alert • October 23, 2020 9:26 AM BST
excess deaths are all related to Covid-19 which is causing deaths by other diseases that otherwise might have been treated. Since a national lockdown was introduced across the UK in March, cancer screening has been suspended, routine diagnostic work deferred, and only urgent symptomatic cases prioritised for diagnostic intervention. More people dying at home of heart related deaths because they delay going to A&E.


all I will add is, more specifically, its the government reaction that has caused this
that aside, we agree on this
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