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howard
15 Sep 20 14:54
Joined:
Date Joined: 09 Mar 03
| Topic/replies: 9,235 | Blogger: howard's blog
imo
Pause Switch to Standard View Redcar photos something funny has...
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Report howard September 15, 2020 2:55 PM BST
1.03/1.04 done to good money
Report duncan idaho September 15, 2020 2:57 PM BST
55 laid on winner in photo
Report grayhawk September 15, 2020 2:57 PM BST
Surprised that anyone could back so short after they saw the margin of victory in the first one
Report bilbobaggins September 15, 2020 2:59 PM BST
They must have fiddled with the position of the line. No way either of those photos could have been the way they were.
Report Uberalles September 15, 2020 3:03 PM BST
Both times the winner has had nose down on line. Been caught out both times :(
Report howard September 15, 2020 3:04 PM BST
I would guess that Bilbo. I think there's more to it than camera angle.
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy September 15, 2020 3:04 PM BST
the camera from the stands today is coming from 4ft to the right of the gap in the rail..dont ask me why.
Report howard September 15, 2020 3:06 PM BST
Do you think  they changed the camera position or where the gap is ?
Report dave1357 September 15, 2020 3:08 PM BST
where is the mirror?
Report jamesdean September 15, 2020 3:10 PM BST
Is this information made clear BEFORE racing?

If yes fair enough, if not, then why not?
Report dave1357 September 15, 2020 3:10 PM BST
gtnbt - are you talking about the tv camera or the photo camera?
Report howard September 15, 2020 3:11 PM BST
And James RTV keep banging on about massive shortie losses in two photos...and ask no questions.
Report wondersobright September 15, 2020 3:12 PM BST

Sep 15, 2020 -- 2:59PM, bilbobaggins wrote:


They must have fiddled with the position of the line. No way either of those photos could have been the way they were.


reminds of that carlisle photo a couple of years ago

Report howard September 15, 2020 3:14 PM BST
true wonders but the Carlisle angle has always helped the far side...something has changed at Redcar.
Report wondersobright September 15, 2020 3:20 PM BST
photo betting not for me except when I want out of a bet but based on what I've seen of redcar stills down the years far side & far side again both races today, the double was a million imo
Report wondersobright September 15, 2020 3:21 PM BST
the carlisle race with 3 horses involved & where far side was called, I thought winner was beat a short head bordering on a head
Report wondersobright September 15, 2020 3:22 PM BST
cant remember names
Report wondersobright September 15, 2020 3:23 PM BST
here we go again!! far side DEFO
Report loper September 15, 2020 3:25 PM BST
The camera angle is so far past the line its a joke at best and criminal negligence at worst.
Report grayhawk September 15, 2020 3:28 PM BST
Wouldn't put in the same ballpark as the Carlisle one Wonders ( 23rd may 2017 )....that one was staggering for me - these were believable
Report grayhawk September 15, 2020 3:30 PM BST
Loper ...why?.... no one is forcing us to bet on photos
Report wondersobright September 15, 2020 3:34 PM BST
.
https://twitter.com/RacingTV/status/866647038833811456

here's the fooker
Report grayhawk September 15, 2020 3:37 PM BST
I've got the photo on my phone ....to remind me that everything is never as it seems in photo betting Grin
Report wondersobright September 15, 2020 3:42 PM BST
Laugh
Report loper September 15, 2020 3:52 PM BST
No one is forcing us to bet on anything, Grayhawk, I dont understand your point?
Report onlooker September 15, 2020 5:14 PM BST
That Carlisle race/Photo was simply astounding
Report grayhawk September 15, 2020 5:50 PM BST
I should have asked how is it criminal negligence Loper?
Report roggrain September 15, 2020 5:55 PM BST
Every jurisdiction in the World has photo finish cameras and tv cameras exactly on the finish line ..except

here. Why doesn't that surprise me?
Report howard September 15, 2020 6:59 PM BST
Good point roggrain. In a way it's worse. At Redcar it was pretty much on the line. Firstly they change it. Why ? And as well as changing it they don't tell punters via RTV covering the meeting.
Report loper September 15, 2020 8:20 PM BST
grayhawk

grayhawk
15 Sep 20 17:50
Joined: 05 Oct 06
| Topic/replies: 27,322 | Blogger: grayhawk's blog
I should have asked how is it criminal negligence Loper?

because they know that photo finish betting takes place. It is their responsibility to set up the camera to reflect all the other indications of where the winning line is. The gap in the rails is supposed to allow the photo reflection to operate more clearly. The line that they ask the groundsman to mow is an accurate indication of the angle of the finish. The camera has been set up incorrectly at an angle many degrees away from the real finish. That is at the very least incompetence and at worst criminal.
Report loper September 15, 2020 8:20 PM BST
grayhawk

grayhawk
15 Sep 20 17:50
Joined: 05 Oct 06
| Topic/replies: 27,322 | Blogger: grayhawk's blog
I should have asked how is it criminal negligence Loper?

because they know that photo finish betting takes place. It is their responsibility to set up the camera to reflect all the other indications of where the winning line is. The gap in the rails is supposed to allow the photo reflection to operate more clearly. The line that they ask the groundsman to mow is an accurate indication of the angle of the finish. The camera has been set up incorrectly at an angle many degrees away from the real finish. That is at the very least incompetence and at worst criminal.
Report grayhawk September 15, 2020 8:26 PM BST
Rightio...
Report howard September 16, 2020 9:42 AM BST
Just been looking back at my video of London Palladium's nose victory at Redcar  on June 18.  Looks like the same camera angle was used then. The horses here were nearer to each other across the track.  Before then I suspect it was different. Redcar has not thrown up many cases where photo backers get it badly wrong yet here you get 2 in one day including an extreme one.
Report Rico-Dangleflaps September 16, 2020 10:08 AM BST
The camera has been set up incorrectly at an angle many degrees away from the real finish.

thats the only feasible explanation for yesterday.
Report grayhawk September 16, 2020 10:54 AM BST
I've just been looking back at the 1:15 replay....paused it 2 feet in front on the person wearing the pink shirt on the far side of the track around 10 feet from the winning line....at this time the winner had it's HEAD DOWN and was clearly in front of the second had the line been there.

Then went and paused a stride after the line when the winner had it's HEAD DOWN AGAIN ...as before the winner was clearly in front

Now i know we're not betting on before or after the line but i very much doubt the second had made up the ground from before the line to win and then lose it a stride after the line each time when the winner had it's head down as it did on the line....

Winning margin is still a surprise
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk September 16, 2020 11:05 AM BST
Anyone have the link to the photos?
Report grayhawk September 16, 2020 11:08 AM BST
Think i've been mixing my races up Laugh
Report grayhawk September 16, 2020 11:11 AM BST
1:15 https://media.britishhorseracing.com/images/photofinish/hireswatermark/2020_6114_0_15622.jpg

2:50 https://media.britishhorseracing.com/images/photofinish/hireswatermark/2020_...
Report howard September 16, 2020 11:14 AM BST
monk go to bha site click results then photo
Report howard September 16, 2020 11:20 AM BST
Rico I take it you mean the tv camera set-up ? ( not the photo camera )
Report dave1357 September 16, 2020 12:11 PM BST
howard • September 16, 2020 11:14 AM BST
monk go to bha site click results then how many squares contain bridges, then photo

fixed
Report greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy September 16, 2020 1:34 PM BST
was impossible for yesterdays camera for photo's in the stands to have been pointing between the gap in rail and mirror.
Report dave1357 September 16, 2020 2:02 PM BST
presumably you are saying that because of the white line?
Report loper September 16, 2020 2:15 PM BST
The angle of the camera is reflected in the mirror on the inside of the course.

The horses were already past the winning line before they appeared in the mirror.
Report howard September 16, 2020 2:21 PM BST
green , are u saying that the official finishing line was way off from being straight across the track thereby giving horses on the nearer side a disadvantage ?
Report loper September 16, 2020 2:31 PM BST
Yes he is Howard, as am I.
Report dave1357 September 16, 2020 2:32 PM BST
that's not the way it works loper afaik.  There are two synchronised cameras, one including the mirror, one at the rest of the course.  There would be a discrepancy between the two images if the mirror was slightly out of line.

howard, there shouldn't be a white line in the photo as that is the rail and the pixel that represents the finishing line should be in the gap.  Everything could be in line but the gap could have been misaligned so showing the rail.  I would have thought that it would be very difficult to move the photo finish equipment to create a "new winning line".
Report loper September 16, 2020 2:44 PM BST
Sorry Dave, but the reflection in the far mirror points exactly back to the camera on the stands side. Thus when the horses nose is reflected in the middle of the mirror you can draw an imaginary line that represents the true finishing line.

You mention a white line, that presumably is because the stands side rail is reflected in the image thus proving that the stands side camera is set beyond the winning line.

I've stood in front of enough racecourse mirrors to establish exactly were the imaginary line crosses the course to know what I'm talking about.
Report dave1357 September 16, 2020 3:13 PM BST
I repeat, only one of the two cameras point at the mirror.  So if the mirror was out of line there would be a discrepancy. (probably what happened here very slightly   https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/i-dont-see-how-a-judge-can-call-a-win... )

The fundamental principle is the same as before – photographing runners as they pass through a very narrow field of vision – but the technology, once based around a spool of continuous moving film, is now state-of-the-art. Two digital cameras are fixed in place in the photofinish booth high in the stand – one to cover the whole width of the track and the other to focus on that part of the course furthest away from the camera in order to make maximum use of the strip of mirror (1800 mm x 150 mm) attached to the winning post. This allows the Judge to see what is happening from the far side of the course if the horses are so close together that the view from the Judge’s box does not afford enough information.

https://www.racetech.co.uk/photo-finish-2

The pixel that reps the winning line should be in the gap.  The rail shouldn't appear if the gap and the camera are in line.  So the mirror has nothing to do with anything.  Either the camera was moved or the gap was moved.
Report loper September 16, 2020 3:24 PM BST
We are saying the same thing Dave, effectively.

Its possible that the camera is in the correct position, but the gap is in the wrong place, thus encouraging the ground staff to mow the strip across the finish line at the incorrect angle.
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