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onlooker
31 Jul 20 12:46
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Date Joined: 18 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 97,373 | Blogger: onlooker's blog
Spectators 'no longer allowed to attend UK pilot sports events'

Dan Roan

BBC Sports editor

The prime minister is set to announce that fans will no longer be permitted to attend the sporting pilot events allowing limited numbers of spectators at Goodwood, the Crucible and the Oval in coming days.

It comes after evidence that the infection rate has risen across the country.
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Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 1, 2020 9:57 AM BST
Yeah. That's bad.

A pity, because the reference the author provides is very clear.

https://reaction.life/we-may-already-have-herd-immunity-an-interview-with-professor-sunetra-gupta/

The comparison in the reference is with influenza epidemics. Why do we no longer get them (see the way swine flu simply disappeared)? Because of far greater exposure to other strains of influenza, and hence a degree of immunity gained from other influenza viruses. Gupta then went on to explain why she believed the same effect would be seen with covid-19  - people who had been exposed to other coronaviruses would have a similar degree of immunity to the new one, in the same way people were found to have immunity to swine flu through exposure to other flus. And so covid-19 would disappear sooner rather than later for similar reasons.

A look at the minuscule numbers of positive tests we're now seeing in this country suggests she may be right.

But yes. Norris put it very badly in that article.
Report truehoncho August 1, 2020 11:02 AM BST
I am tired of people having the most brilliant hindsight and slagging of the government. It must have been impossible at the start with every opinion under the sun being raised. -- I had some sympathy with them originally (save the NHS etc) but it was soon apparent that this virus was no where near as dangerous as we were being led to believe. I think far to much policy now is based on media pressure and trying to justify the unnecessary damage to the economy. 4 million unemployed through the winter (bank of england forecast) will need to be justified.
Report Nightfly August 1, 2020 11:13 AM BST
Charles Darwin is in the house everybody
Report the dealer August 1, 2020 11:23 AM BST
Jeez this thread turned into a hard read, maybe someone bump it in a years time, to see who was right and who was wrong.
The biggest problem I have with it all, not being an expert in any of it, is that many, many times common sense went out the window, in preference to scientific advice.
Report parispike August 1, 2020 11:37 AM BST
The unspoken matter is that sooner or later we all die. CV19 efforts have reached the point where so much resource has been put into fighting it that deaths from other causes are being "forgotten".

To the deceased it matters not one jot nor tittle whether CV19, a road accident, an accident at home, another disease etc does for them.

Somehow we've got to the point where a CV19 death matters more than than any other cause.

That can't be sustainable.
Report duncan idaho August 1, 2020 11:46 AM BST
I am tired of people having the most brilliant hindsight and slagging of the government. It must have been impossible at the start with every opinion under the sun being raised


tripe
Report hello :-) August 1, 2020 11:48 AM BST
i agree paris , problem with covid tho is theres no cure and its already taken not far of 700,000 people and thats with severe restrictions in place world wide

the above average deaths stats just dont lie
Report layingisthewayforward August 1, 2020 11:52 AM BST
It's a load of bollux. If you can go into a pub or a gym or get on a bus then why the feck cant a limited number of people go to watch the racing. Makes absolutely no sense.
Report The Knight August 1, 2020 11:55 AM BST
I think we all know that having the public at Goodwood today would have had the most tiny tiny risk Covid wise. But the issue the government faces is the attitude of the general public in the UK - and it is an age-old attitude where too many worry about what everyone else is doing.

So, whether you think a lockdown in parts of the North is needed or net (and I do) the government knew that if they let Goodwood and other events go ahead with spectators, many in the locked down areas would have started screaming 'one rule for us etc etc'. Add to that, it would have been a green light to some to simply ignore the new lockdowns.

Hence, it was a political move rather than one borne out of medical need.

Sadly, though, the finger pointing from the lockdown areas would have been in keeping with the attitude in the UK.

That attitude is one of 'if I can't have it, why you someone else have it'. In other words, jealously.

Now, if someone is getting something that by rights was mine, or are depriving me unfairly, I would be the first to complain. But if someone has something I don't through hard word, cleverness, or even pure chance, good luck to them!

You can imagine the deprived areas in the North now in partial lockdown screaming blue murder at the more well-shod Goodwood members from prosperous west Sussex. And who would have been stirring it up and leading such protests - the media!

Now, DO NOT start me off about the media...
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 11:59 AM BST
700,000 deaths sound a lot but in the context of the world over several months its a miniscule amount especially when you think its mostly people who were due to die anyway.
Weigh against that the failure to vaccinate kids across the developing world, the damage done to economies in these countries which will lead to more starvation, the estimated 1.3 million extra TB deaths and in England alone thousands of extra cancer deaths then you realise just how stupid it all is. Or you should do anyway.
Report parispike August 1, 2020 12:05 PM BST
I don't dispute the danger of CV19 hello but we have to get to a point where it's accepted as a hazard of life and we take proportionate steps to mitigate it. Currently we are elevating CV19 to an enhanced status where its prevention is, in an unintended consequence, increasing deaths from other morbidities. In addition we are wrecking the economy.

Neither can continue for long.
Report The Knight August 1, 2020 12:15 PM BST
And here is my final post on this carry on. At the start of lockdown I thought it was overkill and typical modern 'snowflake' society. But I have looked and studied almost of the statistics on the virus and have now changed my mind.

Those who are so adamant this awful disruption was so unnecessary need to read up about the 'law of large numbers'. Yes, the infection rate is now tiny, and it was never that big even at the height of the issue. But the POTENTIAL for it to do untold damage was almost beyond comprehension.

Why? Because of the law of large numbers. With 62 million in the UK, a 0.78 per 100,000 people infection rate (the current rate) comes to 483 infections per day. But, at its height we had 15 infections per 100,000 people. That's over 7,000 people per day infected.

Now, I will not bore anyone else with the stats but if you really think the lockdown was overkill, go to the government websites and see the % of daily infections that ended up in ventilator beds. It was tiny. BUT, then see how fast those beds would have been used up at the 15 per 100,000 rate of infection. Inside two weeks and then what would we have done?

Watched the sick and dying queue in the streets for beds?

However, we now have a fresh issue. IF we do not find a vaccine, even a partial one, no economy on earth would stand another long, nationwide lockdown. It would cause havoc for decades and mean health services collapsing for lack of funding.

Hence, it may still be that the virus will have to be allowed to run wild so we achieve some form of herd immunity. Doing it like that, and I sincerely hope we don't have to, might still be the lesser of two evils.

But to do that straight away would have been inhumane, and hence the first lockdown. 

So, to end, will all you virologists on here, plus all the hindsight merchants, PLEASE go and check all the figures available before opining your views.

Oh, wait, you don't believe all the figures because this is some giant, Bill Gates led conspiracy to deprive you of your Spanish summer holidays - holidays that, no doubt, were going to be taken with children by parents who, 3 weeks ago, were bricking it about their kinds returning to school!

We have become one selfish, stupid society, that's for sure.
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 12:34 PM BST
The knight. There were options between a full lockdown and no lockdown. We could just have locked down the most vulnerable to limit demands on ventilators.
Report onlooker August 1, 2020 12:42 PM BST
Agree - Ther Knight.

As I posted earlier - Both, the equally frightening,  SARS and deadly EBOLA did not end up running amok throughout the globe ...

How did they 'die out'?

The World did not Lockdown for them - just parts of Asia, but in proportion, along with the predictably ill-equipped African countries.

Surely we can now put something into practice from those two experiences, in order to get an applicable advantage over this current problem.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 1, 2020 12:51 PM BST
It doesn't matter what should or shouldn't have been done in March. Water under the bridge

It's what we do now, with the situation we have on 1 August, that matters.

Sweden, Netherlands, Norway say masks are completely pointless, and let's get on with things, but be sensible. People are in peak health right now, so we can get this over with before winter, with minimal casualties.

Our government is saying masks everywhere, ban everything, there is no way out and we're all going to die (of other things).
Report truehoncho August 1, 2020 12:58 PM BST
IF we do not find a vaccine, even a partial one, no economy on earth would stand another long, nationwide lockdown. It would cause havoc for decades and mean health services collapsing for lack of funding.  ___ It was a good post Knight and although we come at it from different sides I see some sense in the large numbers potential. However the point I have highlighted is a misconception. Even if it is as contagious as the worst predictions and everybody got it for the vast majority (even accounting for large numbers) would be fine. It is only the vulnerable and old that this has any significant effect on and they don't contribute much to the economy. Eventually whether it's pleasant to think of or not in your scenario they would all be dead (and pretty quickly) and its locking down the healthy and those that do contribute to the economy that will do the damage. Actually I don't think its that bad and some sensible precautions to protect the vulnerable while we all go about our business (with some sensible precautions) would mean that in a few months this will be sorted.
Report duffy August 1, 2020 1:04 PM BST
Sweden, Netherlands, Norway say masks are completely pointless, and let's get on with things, but be sensible.

Major coronavirus pub outbreak infects 16 people with 350 awaiting test results

Eyewitnesses described the pub being "packed in like sardines" with as many as 200 punters at the venue.


CrazyCrazy
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 1:13 PM BST
So we just willingly and readily "sacrifice" a few of the weaklings eg the weak/sick and elderly for the majority ie the weak and elderly taking one for the majority (the stronger in society). It's a scary thought another "human being" can play GOD at the expense of a few who'd have worked and contributed aplenty to the world and country but might not be able to enjoy the fruits of their labour because they could be sick/weak or elderly (bearing in mind we all grow old with time) some clever "wally" decide to play GOD.

If so, I'd be ashamed and not want to be part of that "elitist" and selfish society.
Report duffy August 1, 2020 1:19 PM BST
The irony isn't lost on me how we have championed Sir Tom, hero of the nation and in the same breath we ask him and many of his heroic kind if they don't mind taking one for the team so our dynamic youth can get back down the pub againLaugh
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 1, 2020 1:20 PM BST
It's still 16 infections in July, duffy. It's not 16 hospital cases, which it might be if we keep trying to put this off until next year.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 1:25 PM BST
truehoncho • August 1, 2020 12:58 PM BST
It is only the vulnerable and old that this has any significant effect on and they don't contribute much to the economy. Eventually whether it's pleasant to think of or not in your scenario they would all be dead (and pretty quickly) and its locking down the healthy and those that do contribute to the economy that will do the damage. Actually I don't think its that bad and some sensible precautions to protect the vulnerable while we all go about our business (with some sensible precautions) would mean that in a few months this will be sorted.


another good post

voluntary shielding and/or other measures
no topdown government interference & business as usual for those who are healthy
anybody pushing another agenda is part of the problem imo
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 1:26 PM BST
Some people despite a period of more than 4 months have yet to cotton on the probable destruction of Covid-19 on the human race. Absolutely shocking!

Me! Me! Me! More ME! The rest can take a hike, come what may!
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 1:28 PM BST
impossible Thats a great distortion of the facts. Firstly there are no good options just bad and worse ones but anyone is free to sit this out at home for the next decade if they so wish. Its rather selfish of the old generation to expect younger people to lose their livelyhoods and careers though just to help them have another couple of years though. I dont want anyone to make any sacrifices for me thank you very much.

Nobody is playing God. Thats just a bizarre post.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 1:28 PM BST

Aug 1, 2020 -- 12:34PM, Dotchinite wrote:


The knight. There were options between a full lockdown and no lockdown. We could just have locked down the most vulnerable to limit demands on ventilators.


correct

and use the time to build up ICU capacity in the NHS...which was done v quickly

Report duffy August 1, 2020 1:29 PM BST
Its a shame a few more of these dynamic youngsters that are being inhibited through the lock down have not been so visible through the last few years, we may have been able to send the Eastern europeans homeDevil
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 1:31 PM BST
Thats a snide comment duffy. It really is.
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 1:34 PM BST
Who's built the country? The older generation ie the weak/sick and elderly. After all it's only been just over 4 months with Covid-19. What an absolute disgraceful and shameful lot of younger generation harbouring the thought of sacrificing the weak/sick and elderly - the builders of this nation - to Covid-19 so that they could live and have an easier life? 

Maybe this lot might be better off not born or emigrate elsewhere eg Timbuktu or the Sahara desert.
Report glentoby August 1, 2020 1:35 PM BST
A "bizzare" post from impossible? Really? Arguing against sacrificing a generation,the last of them,who already made sacrifices 1939-45,6 years of real sacrifice including young lives.The generation who's sacrifices enable YOU to be the stupid,ignorant selfish bastards that are sacrificing nothing in comparison?

Yes that is really bizarre.Crazy

Well said impossible.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 1, 2020 1:39 PM BST
I think the sight of poor little children walking around in the sunshine with surgical masks clamped to their faces is one of the saddest sights I've seen in this country.

It was 80F out in Taunton's high street on Thursday, and I saw four trussed up like that, belonging to what looked like three families. And that was in just 10 minutes.
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 1:42 PM BST
Its bizarre because NOBODY is suggesting it. Its a ridiculous quote.
Report duffy August 1, 2020 1:43 PM BST
Only 112 of 50,000 UK applicants for fruit pickers take jobs amid farmers' fears over skills and application

Farmers face a challenge to recruit skilled staff they need to pick fruit and vegetables as East European labour is cut off by coronavirus


It seems like our dynamic youth don't want work
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 1:47 PM BST
What a great generalisation that is. An even worse post than the last one.
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 1:48 PM BST
Some bizarre analogy from a select few here.

In some countries people walk about daily with attire totally covering their entire body because of their faith or belief, but a face mask is unacceptable because of Covid-19. What a bizarre and "intelligent" analogy?

A classic example of "empty vessels make the most noise".
Report duffy August 1, 2020 1:50 PM BST
Dotchinite 01 Aug 20 11:59 
700,000 deaths sound a lot but in the context of the world over several months its a miniscule amount especially when you think its mostly people who were due to die anyway.


Nothing Ive posted tops that bile.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 1:52 PM BST

Aug 1, 2020 -- 1:39PM, screaming from beneaththewaves wrote:


I think the sight of poor little children walking around in the sunshine with surgical masks clamped to their faces is one of the saddest sights I've seen in this country.It was 80F out in Taunton's high street on Thursday, and I saw four trussed up like that, belonging to what looked like three families. And that was in just 10 minutes.


too right

Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 1:53 PM BST
What bit is incorrect?
Report truehoncho August 1, 2020 1:54 PM BST
So we just willingly and readily "sacrifice" a few of the weaklings eg the weak/sick and elderly for the majority ie the weak and elderly taking one for the majority (the stronger in society). It's a scary thought another "human being" can play GOD at the expense of a few who'd have worked and contributed aplenty to the world and country but might not be able to enjoy the fruits of their labour because they could be sick/weak or elderly (bearing in mind we all grow old with time) some clever "wally" decide to play GOD.

If so, I'd be ashamed and not want to be part of that "elitist" and selfish society
   ----You know thats not what I said Impossible. I was responding to a doomsday scenario put forward by another poster. The reality is in any case that me me me is the mantra of the modern economic world and you are just as much a part of that as everyone else. The reality is that the measures being taken through lock down etc will cause more death sand misery than covid. Thousands of people have dies over the last ten years because they couldn't get the treatment they need from the NHS due to austerity of the banking crisis. Not too many out with their banners protesting that. You have it wrong it is the working people suffer the elites always are ok.
Report duffy August 1, 2020 1:55 PM BST
Never mindCrazy
Report glentoby August 1, 2020 1:55 PM BST
Stacks of coffins and packed mortuaries maybe slightly sadder,possibly relatives of those poor deprived children?Crazy
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 1:57 PM BST
duffy I could have written that a little more sensitively I suppose but factually its correct. You only need to check the stats on ages/underlying conditions to know that.
Report Duncan Disordorli August 1, 2020 2:05 PM BST
Interesting thread and though it opened about Goodwood today, most posters recognise that the discussion concerns something far more important. Both points of view are entirely valid, though of course both cannot be right. That the government's full lockdown was inevitable can be debated...at least the extent of it. I personally think the risk factor may have been overstated(with assistance from an eager media), but surely better that than underplaying the health hazards. Reopening then became the focus, igniting the economy versus virus cases argument. For me at least, ONE preventable death from Covid is preferable to an unknown number from economic carnage. The economy collapse has already happened anyway of course and that was inevitable whatever the reopening strategy.
America is currently the dreadful proof that a balance was impossible, so the figures in the UK were at the very least encouraging enough to attempt normalisation for people to attend race meetings etc. The acres of space in Sussex however would still have seen most congregate near the winning line therefore cancellation was probably the right call with cases and deaths showing a worrying upturn.
Those that argue that the fairly minimal risk of catching Covid today at Goodwood fail to address the fact that had one racegoer had a big winning day and popped in to his ageing infirm gran on the way home with flowers and chocolates, he could be putting that lady at risk of losing her life.
With Covid it is not the known that is the major problem but the unknown. Unwitting carriers put the vulnerables at risk and that ought to be enough to deter those that seek a return to normality.
Containment, (whatever that constitutes in the months ahead), is the time to start thinking about a return to normal in my opinion and attendance at sporting events really should be pretty low in the priorities column.
Report duffy August 1, 2020 2:06 PM BST
Yeah, that was my point, fair play.

My issue is that I'm 50 and have had one of these underlying issues for over 20 years and with medication have seen no deterioration in my condition (touch wood) whatsoever and, again (touch wood) am not at death's door........however If I now keeled over with Covid, everyone would say, ah...he had an underlying condition and was due to die anyway!!!

How many really are moments from death anyway, many are like me and many 70 year olds might have had another 20 years ahead of them, it's an over generalization to lump every underlying issue or every elderly death into the pile marked "were about to die" box
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 2:12 PM BST
given that life expectancy is in the 70s, a tiny % of people in their 70s can expect another 20 years ahead of them
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 2:14 PM BST
Now one of the "self-obsessed selfish" posters is trying to tag me! me! me! economic mantra/greed onto Covid ie the same individual insinuating the weak/sick and elderly - the builders of this nation - take one for the country for the work-shy younger generation snubbing a temporary seasonal vocation in agriculture but at the same time furloughing or claiming benefits courtesy of Covid-19.

As for horse racing and allowing some racegoers at Goodwood today are concerned this is purely a political decision given the demographic frequenting horse meetings. The government do not want to be seen to be favouring one group whilst at the same time "punishing" another for fear of being accused of discrimination.
Report duffy August 1, 2020 2:18 PM BST
I have a big problem with the approach where we are effectively saying to a group of people that we are going to carry on as normal and it'll probably result in a bunch of you dying, but hey, you've had your time anyhow so that's that basically.
Report peckerdunne August 1, 2020 2:23 PM BST
That and the fact herd immunity is a pipe dream, can't be achieved.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 1, 2020 2:25 PM BST
There's also the approach of the majority carrying on as normal precisely in order to prevent the vulnerable minority dying. If the unaffected minority get it now, they won't be getting it and passing it on with worse symptoms in the winter.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 2:27 PM BST

Aug 1, 2020 -- 2:25PM, screaming from beneaththewaves wrote:


There's also the approach of the majority carrying on as normal precisely in order to prevent the vulnerable minority dying. If the unaffected minority get it now, they won't be getting it and passing it on with worse symptoms in the winter.


wasting your time SFB trying to explain it to people who insist on putting the cart before the horse

Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 2:27 PM BST
Duffy. I dont believe thats correct, in fact I think the lockdown has been of no benefit to the vulnerable at all since as soon as it ends the virus returns and so few have had it there is no chance of herd immunity (and I know the validity of this is disputed).
I think a selective lockdown where we protected the vulnerable and let the younger/fitter people carry on as normal would result in a much safer environment for the rest after a few months.  The way we are going unless we get a vaccine the weak and old will be at great risk for the forseeable future. And I think everyone accepts lockdowns cant be repeated time and again.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 2:28 PM BST
not to mention how many old, poor & generally vulnerable will be killed due to the economic disaster being engineered
will far outweigh any "virus" deaths
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 2:35 PM BST
Economy before health and well-being of citizens. Wow! How low have some people sunk to to equate health and well-being to health of economy? I hope the same "smart alex" are still young when another deadly virus visit the UK like Covid-19.

They will not a play a different tune, will they?
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 2:38 PM BST
Health of citizens and the economy are linked. Theres loads of figures showing how many deaths recessions cause and this will be a  huge recession.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 2:39 PM BST
you can't have a proper health care service without a flourishing economy so you don't prioritise health over the economy, otherwise eventually both will go to sh1t

its basic downstream economics
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 2:41 PM BST
If you meant obesity to affluent society then I'll agree. Otherwise no. And, some countries are functioning more than ok without a free health service.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 2:41 PM BST
when poverty levels increase, lots of vulnerable people die who otherwise would have lived
that's the ill, the old, the poor etc etc
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 2:43 PM BST
NHS might be free at the point of need but its funded to egregious levels by the UK taxpayer...which is money generated by...the ECONOMY
and if you go down the private health care insurance route, the vulnerable are even worse off
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 2:44 PM BST
If only it was that simple. Thank-goodness none of you were my Economic lecturer at Uni. And, hopefully none of you are holding the purse string of any entity. I'd feel sorry for the recipient if any of you are.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 1, 2020 2:45 PM BST
Nearly three times as many people are now dying of flu and pneumonia than with coronavirus in England and Wales, new figures have revealed. Numbers published by the Office For National Statistics show 917 flu and pneumonia deaths were registered for the week ending on July 10. In comparison, 366 people died that week after testing positive for Covid-19 – the lowest number of deaths involving the virus in the last 16 weeks and a 31.2% decrease compared with the previous week, which saw 532 deaths.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/22/nearly-three-times-people-dying-flu-pneumonia-coronavirus-13021417/?ito=cbshare

______________________________________---

On that basis, you'd say we're well on the way to herd immunity for coronavirus. The flu deaths are the control group showing what the numbers are when we DON'T have herd immunity to a particular virus.
Report GLASGOWCALLING August 1, 2020 2:50 PM BST
Chester a bit ironic "behind closed doors", when the best view has always been from the Walls. Happy
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 2:52 PM BST
I do not wish further debate with anyone who'd callously "sacrifice" the life of another fellow individual/country person solely on age and health in exchange to grow the economy. If so, China and Japan (to name two) will not be where they are today in the world economy league.
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 2:53 PM BST
impossible. I suggest you do your own research. Nobody else denies there is a link between recessions and extra deaths other perhaps far right Tories like Rees Mogg.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 2:55 PM BST

Aug 1, 2020 -- 2:52PM, impossible123 wrote:


I do not wish further debate with anyone who'd callously "sacrifice" the life of another fellow individual/country person solely on age and health in exchange to grow the economy. If so, China and Japan (to name two) will not be where they are today in the world economy league.


lost the debate so pulls out of the debate

Report Larabrown August 1, 2020 3:17 PM BST
wondersobright • August 1, 2020 2:12 PM BST
given that life expectancy is in the 70s, a tiny % of people in their 70s can expect another 20 years ahead of them


Life expectancy is 80.4 years. impossible123 is entirely correct to assert a strong moral position.
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 3:21 PM BST
Lara its wrong to claim the "moral" position if by saving one group you end up killing a lot more in others. Worldwide this looks likely to be a disaster deathwise for a lot of very young people.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 3:29 PM BST
global life expectancy is in the 70s so get your facts right
most people in their 70s won't live for another 20 years FACT
Report LoyalHoncho August 1, 2020 3:49 PM BST
The trouble at present is that none of us seem to know whether to make a stand or take the knee?  Wonders is the expert - he can tell us.
Report Larabrown August 1, 2020 3:51 PM BST
Ha ha ha.
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 4:17 PM BST
I'd not wish to engage further here but I'd at Speaker's Corner if I'm confronted with the same callous argument ie advocating it's ok to sacrifice a specific group of fellow country persons for another in order to grow the economy so soon regards Covid-19. The callous attitude advocated by some is too demeaning and heinous to be engaging with in any debate let alone a forum like this one. And, it's nothing to do with losing an argument or not - I'd done lots of that at school. I do not wish to sink to their despicable and shameful level either.

SARs and Eboula were also deadly but luckily for the West there were at least 2 major differences eg timing and location; the former was 20 years earlier (transportation/movement of people and wealth of source/origin were significantly lesser) and the latter was confined to a much smaller area in Africa with little ability to infect others overseas.

I do not wish to win an odious argument pitting one group of human beings against another.
Report Dotchinite August 1, 2020 4:25 PM BST
I think its safe to say you are no danger of winning any argument.
Report wondersobright August 1, 2020 4:31 PM BST
Laugh
Report LoyalHoncho August 1, 2020 4:36 PM BST
Laugh
Report Larabrown August 1, 2020 5:07 PM BST
Well said impossible123 - their position is grotesque.
Report truehoncho August 1, 2020 5:33 PM BST
Thank-goodness none of you were my Economic lecturer at Uni. --- now you are just bull ****.
Report truehoncho August 1, 2020 5:36 PM BST
If posters on here really did study economics at university they would realise that everyone's well being relies on a decent economy. Off you go to the third world if you think otherwise. Total nonsense to suggest anything else.
Report penzance August 1, 2020 5:40 PM BST
do think it was a bit harsh on Goodwood,when
you see the people on Brighton beach today.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 1, 2020 6:05 PM BST
... or Berlin, where they're protesting against masks and lockdown today:
Report fckewe August 1, 2020 7:04 PM BST
sheep will bleat - leave impossible to it, most dribblers lack the capacity to think for themselves,it's a complete waste of time trying to debate with someone who's incapable of critical thinking.  There's a reason why the majority are known as 'the herd'.
Report glentoby August 1, 2020 7:13 PM BST
Absolutely correct fckewe which is why you are following the flock and have such an influential user name with a gross of 43 posts.Impossible not only has the moral high ground,he also controls the intellectual level of said flock who have to resort to various statistics and unproven data to support their cause.

Btw sheep flock which is exactly what you have done,well done.
Report irishone August 1, 2020 7:52 PM BST
The u k is fecked
When you read posters on here
That goes a long way
To explain it....
Report glentoby August 1, 2020 7:57 PM BST
Spot on irishone,the Govt screwed up from BEFORE the start,now they try and do things too late the general population now doing its best to make a bad situation worse.A selfish,ignorant nation second only to the US in terms of self destruction and even there some states have more common than the majority.Cool
Report truehoncho August 1, 2020 8:12 PM BST
You are right geltoby the Government made a terrible decision based on chronically bad advice from so called scientists. They got it wrong. !0's of thousands of hospital beds lay empty for nearly 2 months which delayed 100's of thousand of procedures. This had nothing to do with the lock down as it was capacity made available from mid March for the expected demand from the infected at the time. It was an error and proved by Sweden to be unnecessary. The USA death rate is a good bit less than any country in Europe. Nobody is selfish or arrogant but people can read the numbers and see the facts. Hardly any more dead (and when the adjustments are made maybe no more) than the 2018/19 flu season and thats official public health England figures not mine.
Report impossible123 August 1, 2020 9:38 PM BST
No doubt these same people advocating sacrificing the community who built the nation for those who are younger, probably work-shy and shallow-minded, narcissistic and belong to the throw-away society would embrace the horror movie The Purge in the future to progress the economy of "their" country.

And, it will not surprise me if the same people are not UK domicile or residence certainly not have the UK at heart, but with ulterior motives to suit. By the way the people (citizens and elected officials) of a country determine the success or failure of that country and its economy, not the country itself.
Report glentoby August 1, 2020 10:09 PM BST
Probably not a surprise to you impossible but months back I mentioned Genocide,vilified for that and the suggestion of suppressed death figures in UK.

Now we have all sorts of "experts" on a racing forum with all the answers? The simple facts are this,you destroyed them from the simply moral stand without resorting to easily twisted "Facts and figures" which they are saying grossly inflates the UK death rate and pneumonia is a huge recent killer and common flu.

Here is some news from myself and my wife who is a retired Professor of Biology and genetics,retired btw 55 years old.Her sister died 8 days after being infected (apparently) her nice died after 11 days aged 28 years after being infected (apparently) and both as fit and as healthy as most serious sportspersons.

She say's a non discriminatory virus and the BAME people are using it to gain points,goes further to say as far as UK and US concerned,responsible for the spread regardless of social status.Says even given time it will be proven that ethnics in upper echellons will suffer more deaths per capita than percieved lower caste and economy.Because of lifestyle.

Had to to share that because it is disturbing the level of ignorance.CrySad
Report glentoby August 1, 2020 10:14 PM BST
And btw my wife advises the UK records cause of death as pneumonia as routine whether patients in from car crashes,falls at home etc,injuries never mentioned on death certificate despite perhaps multiple fractures or even brain trauma.

The cause of death mostly recorded as pneumonia so come back and debate this screamingbeneath your duvet?
Report isleham August 2, 2020 12:17 AM BST
for once the RP has a decent comment tonight with a comparison of the wide open acres of Goodwood and cricket grounds being closed
while every beach on the south coast and in the south west are rammed to the hilt.
and now some mad scientist suggests all pubs,bars and restaurants should close again so schools can return !!!
we truely are being influenced by some brain-dead experts...who does he think will pay for all our public services
Report SeeMoreBusiness August 2, 2020 12:26 AM BST
if our aim is to eradicate the disease, we will fail. Hardly any diseases are are eradicated from the world. We have been trying for centuries. We always fail. regardless of the emotional, but understandable. laments of those who have suffered, or will suffer, or know someone who will suffer, this is an unalterable fact. As long as 1 person on the entire planet has this,it will survive. Thus, we need to live, and die, with it, as we do with all other fatal diseases. Out reaction is absurd, disproportionate, illogical, damaging and fatal. (to those with other conditions). When the £ from the furlough ends, and redundancies begin, my view, I hope, will become the norm.
Report Nightfly August 2, 2020 8:43 AM BST
Cant believe how many Darwanists are on here, or do they just have the loudest, self righteous, noise polluting voices
Report Nightfly August 2, 2020 8:43 AM BST
Well said Glentoby
Report layingisthewayforward August 2, 2020 9:27 AM BST
A lot of waffle on this thread but the simple fact is if we can go and sit in the pub indoors for hours on end then we should be allowed to go racing. Sort it out Boris FFS
Report know all August 2, 2020 10:52 AM BST
if these religious groups who are not social distancing carry on i can see some turning on them and riots and the like
Report workrider August 2, 2020 11:21 AM BST
Welcome back Chit-Chat....Laugh
Report kevo August 2, 2020 11:25 AM BST
Comparing Covid-19 to the flu season, what is the proportional infection and death rate for NHS staff and care workers dealing with these two seperate viruses?
Report MC Roller August 2, 2020 9:22 PM BST
This virus is so intelligent, it can spread like wildfire after a trip to the beach, but has no effect if you're in a violent mob running after cops. A treatment that has been around decades suddenly doesn't work. Masks never worked to start with but now do. Cuomo from cnn and King Boris suffered with it but made a remarkable fast recovery and were back to work in no time. If you watch mainstream news the virus even has racist tendencies.

Go shopping without a mask, and you may be approached by a masked raging maniac, who may wish death on you for making a choice regardless if you have small children with you. This virus can turn people into nasty animals. I save the best for last. This virus is so special there will be a vaccine in record time.

What a virus.
Report artful dodger August 3, 2020 7:20 AM BST
Problem is, one size fits all, no one is sitting down and sorting things out. We can have people at the crucible on Friday but not on Saturday. We can have 1000 people watching the cricket earlier last week but not on Saturday. And Goodwood in the fresh air were given "permission" to race but not on Saturday. And all this because 115,967 people in Manchester tested negative. Oh sorry I mean 59 tested positive. WTF is going on? Beaches everywhere packed to capacity, flights in and out of the country every day, masks which have been proved to be pointless to be worn in shops and now some mad scientist (yes another one) has said that some pubs and restaurants will have to close to compensate for schools opening up in September. You couldn't make it up.
Report Larabrown August 3, 2020 8:27 AM BST
It is this sort of inaccurate, deluded analysis that means that the R rate will continue to rise, the death rate to increase and the emergency measures become more severe.
Report elise August 3, 2020 9:01 AM BST
were you just knocking up breakfast for the kids or making a protein shake post run when you found time to let us all know your covid thoughts (again)?
Report sparrow August 3, 2020 9:07 AM BST
Not just one person letting us know their views.
Report Larabrown August 3, 2020 9:31 AM BST
It is hard to see how overt sexism enhances the debate but some will always resort to it.
Report mrcombustible August 3, 2020 11:40 AM BST
They should put 54 year old ex minister Mark Francois in charge.
Report clouded leopard August 3, 2020 12:17 PM BST
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/analysis-why-englands-covid-19...
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