Ok Lets See Who The Judges Are...Enable V Japan.

im a big japan fan but thought his win at york over 1m2f tested him the other massive burden is moore who ie terrible judge of pace he just does not have the needed brain to master the pace, how could you oppose enable ? the outsider if he reverts to his front running irish derby run fron the front could surprise us all but has he the class?
enable for me but not a betting race for me which is a shame a fascinating race with tactics playing a big part and no one better than frankie at judging pace

Absolute sh1te know all.

Don't hold back acey, say what you think

all about opinions

Fair enough.

post your pretendee bets lads..

So whats your opinion shafter?

Willie don't be coy.

Assuming Enable wins,any opinions on the winning distance e.g close finish or a coast home? Imo regardless of tactics IF she wins (which I expect),I think she will have an easy 2L + at the end.

Thoughts?

Btw no financial interest so if she blows out it will be a hattrick for Acey if Japan wins,so good luck to him.

Enable fo me; lying 2nd until the 1f marker, and whoosh.

Enable wont be coasting home I am certain of that glen Japan will make her pull out everything imo.

I think Enable could jump a hurdle and still win in a canter against these two.

always led kicked on 2 out Comfortable

Interesting hcap market wiv Billies if you can get owt on

Enable scratch

Japan +1.75 lgths

Sovereign +5.5 lgths

7/4 each of 3

Assuming the outsider of 3 is allowed to come home in his own time you can watch Enable win rather snugly and still get paid out on Japan - can see Enable winning but not by too far -thats my take on it

Enable should be 4-11.  Will win cosily by 1.25l

Jul 25, 2020 -- 8:23AM, Willie Shafter. wrote:

post your pretendee bets lads..

25-Jul-20
15:33:54    15:35 Ascot
Enable - 1m4f Grp 1
Betfair Bet ID 1:206482869147 | Matched: 25-Jul-20 15:33:54    Back    1.44    2.00

Enabled for me by 3 l

Enable probably, but there are better 4/9 shots. No surprise to see either of the other two win.

I hope none is pulled up.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

acey,,the biggest guesser in the forum..abso clueless.

wac

looks like Moore chose wrong again

Class performance by Enable

Fair enough Japan going backwards.

a 1/10 shot trading at 1/2

some prime grade judges on here picking japan

Japan didnt look to be striding out properly.

I meant 1-11!!

She is a wonderful filly.

We knew Acey is a pollutant 

The forums guesser.  What a mare.

Love will tear her apart.

.... mare

People are going well over the top.  If you think she is that good (Enable), won a lot of the big ones, YES,  however still
on Tv she has not hit a 9 darter???

not only acey, so many morons saying the price should be 4/5!!

Very good performance nevertheless do not get carried away. The opposition were poor; Japan had not progressed; Sovereign was gifted the Irish Derby and is a slow boat contesting Gp1 races.

Why O why did I listen to Ryan talking sh1te about Japan.

The time was pretty good considering the ground was more good than GF imo?

Yeah, whatever Impossible! The horse is still a class act and would have beat ANY field put in front of her today.

surely you aint blameing Ryan Moore for
backing a loser?

Ibrahima Sonko Japan didnt look to be striding out properly.

Didn't appear handle the ground at all.

just to cheer Acey up (much better than the original )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xBFMmrVDBw

Here is a short snippet,Autumn Flight next at York seemingly wants more give according to the "experts" seem to be making enough of a print to suggest it is not rattling fast though times are decent.Think it will go close so gone ew,gl if having a dabble.

Japan was all out at Sandown and still couldn't even hold on for 2nd from an 80% fit Enable.

Regardless of people's opinions being right or wrong, someone putting up a thread saying "Enable to get stuffed again" or words to that effect before the Eclipse show's them up as being pure gamblers rather than racing enthusiasts. You can be both, many are, but some cannot see the sport as anything other than a gambling medium. The OP strikes me very much as one of those types.

On a positive note, in a very sub standard race, it's still good to see a brilliant filly make history and in my humble is in the top 5 fillies of my lifetime.

Different gravy

Whippin Piccadilly
Date Joined: 02 Mar 07
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25 Jul 20 15:48
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Yeah, whatever Impossible! The horse is still a class act and would have beat ANY field put in front of her today.

except the giant that is waldgeist

Nonaynever
Date Joined: 02 Jun 11
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25 Jul 20 15:52
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Regardless of people's opinions being right or wrong, someone putting up a thread saying "Enable to get stuffed again" or words to that effect before the Eclipse show's them up as being pure gamblers rather than racing enthusiasts. You can be both, many are, but some cannot see the sport as anything other than a gambling medium. The OP strikes me very much as one of those types.

On a positive note, in a very sub standard race, it's still good to see a brilliant filly make history and in my humble is in the top 5 fillies of my lifetime.

were you born in 2009?

Just hope we get the chance to attend 1st Sunday in Oct,at the moment she must be bang there for a 3rd Arc if the ground is decent.

Beans on toast for Acey tonight.. Well done backers, never a moments doubt.

Charlton2005 were you born in 2009?



This is a good list:
https://www.pauljoneshorseracing.com/my-top-50-fillies-mares

Say what you think Charlton

To be fair to enable, that's 3 king georges, 2 Arcs, an oaks, 2 eclipses? Not many filles/mares have won as much as she has.

And before you ask I was born a long time before 2009 unfortunately

In terms of achievements she's the best 12f turf horse ever. The 3 most important 12f turf races open to all comers are the Arc, KG and BC Turf - she's competed in 7 and won 6 - 2nd in a bog in the other. Incredible.

You can argue about distances and form etc. but every year all we've got is the total throughbreds in training - she's been better than all of them 4 years running.

Any point though A_T despite your astute observations? The trainer and owner throw so many darts they are bound to strike lucky once in a while regardless of the distance,surface or level of opposition? They will rush her off to the paddocks straight after the Arc win or lose and look to get her covered by Galley Leo and then flog her in Foal for tidy prophet?

Still amazes me the anti Arab sentiments among many without whom the British (at very least) Racing industry could have and perhaps would have collapsed in late 80s and early 90s? Coolmore would have interbred and dominated to the point where an overbite was considered an attribute,box walking a sign of enthusiasm etc.

Over the top admittedly but about time the whole world woke up to reality IMVHO and HONESTY and away from fawning crawling carp like ITV presenters?

Juddmonte won't be selling Enable - she'll go to stud but no visits from her grandpa Galileo - odds on to be Kingman.

if they wanted to sell her they would've
done it after her 3 or 4yr old career.
Plus they dont throw loads of darts.
Abdullah's had some great horses.

Hope you got my point A-T,think you are on the money!!! Prince KA is a cracking benefactor and I admire him more than most.

Penzance about 30 years behind as normal.

Irony does not register in the West Country,small jeans pull!!!

Some good points about the Arabs - half of Newmarket must get up every morning and pray to an effigy of the Sheikh they'd all be royally fooked without him and his family

LOL A_T at least you got the irony and the point that neither big John nor Prince KA are in anyway akin to the Cartel!!! Shame for penzance that the small jeans pull did not help!!!

Japan is officially dog meat - Everytime there is no support behind it, it runs like a drain!!

The horse was all hype for the Derby and they went the Dante Route - it drifted like a rancid dog meat and was beaten halfway down the straight, Then at Ascot that year well supported gave a performance that Ryan Moore went on saying it is a special horse. York well backed won well.

Ecilipse no real support, ran ok, today you could only really back Enable, Japan had little support, ran like dog meat again...... This horse is one hype horse that clearly is difficult to get right and they know it,,,,,,,,,,, Enable made history, but beat S suprise Irish Derby winner where the jockeys like in the english verison this year was brain dead and a dodgepot Japan who is a substandard Group 1 horse. The King George may as well be a group 2 based on todays field.

layingisthewayforward
25 Jul 20 18:44
Joined: 08 Sep 05 | Topic/replies: 2,657 | Blogger: layingisthewayforward's blog
Say what you think Charlton

To be fair to enable, that's 3 king georges, 2 Arcs, an oaks, 2 eclipses? Not many filles/mares have won as much as she has.

alan wells one of only about 25 mean ever to win an Olympic 100m final.

there are, today, 10,000 school kids in the caribean alone that are better than him

ergo, your argument is moronic

Storm Alert
25 Jul 20 16:48
Joined: 22 Oct 02 | Topic/replies: 4,991 | Blogger: Storm Alert's blog
Charlton2005 were you born in 2009?



This is a good list:
https://www.pauljoneshorseracing.com/my-top-50-fillies-mares

so just in the last 15 years we have the following better than enable.

black caviar 1/2 a stone better

goldikova 5 pounds better

enable not even in the top 10 this century. not even close to the top 100 ever.

people just have short memories and are very bad at maths

I am shocked Charlton,I am the biggest fan Goldikova ever had £40k @ 6/4 and same @ 13/8 the same week thinking I had stolen money at 6/4.However apart from the punting angle I can't see a mention of Treve which maybe an oversight?

Comparing fillies and especially Mares is fraught with allegiance imvho? Treve would be the closest I could compare with Enable without semantics,I cannot think of a Mare or Colt regardless of age who can beat her on decent ground in this years Arc?

Can Anybody? Waldoelast year netted me £44k to 2K + the fcast,Enable cost £20k,given good or no worse than English soft the 44 would be on Enable against any horse I have seen so far this year.

Be interesting if Love turns up.

Surely you aint blaming Ryan Moore for backing a loser?....Eh yeah.

That was a stinker by Japan I think he will probably disappear into oblivion after that fackin shocker.

And was he not just sold for Gazillions to some Japanese mug.

This isn't a response to Charlton as he seems like the type who likes an argument for arguments sake. The fact is no one will ever really know pound for pound who the best horses are over generations but putting top class horses down with donkey comments or useless comments etc prove that person to be clueless about the sport.

My opinion is this - I've watched the sport since the mid 80's and the only two (European) mares I would put alongside Enable are Miesque and Pebbles. I've read the list mentioned above and while respecting his opinion, I for one would not have Oh So Sharp above Pebbles, or within 7lb's for that matter. It doesn't mean I'm right and he's wrong, it's different viewpoints. I'd have Enable above Goldikova, Bosra Sham, indeed all the other mares on his list, but they where all top class in their own rights.

Enable is a top top class horse and anyone dismissing her credentials, and the viewpoints of those who think so. are not as clued up as they'd like to think.

Regardless of people's opinions being right or wrong, someone putting up a thread saying "Enable to get stuffed again" or words to that effect before the Eclipse show's them up as being pure gamblers rather than racing enthusiasts. You can be both, many are, but some cannot see the sport as anything other than a gambling medium. The OP strikes me very much as one of those types.

On a positive note, in a very sub standard race, it's still good to see a brilliant filly make history and in my humble is in the top 5 fillies of my lifetime. ...You know nothing about me Nonaynever.

Dear dear dear, some silly people here.

When routine bites high and emotions are low

and resentment rides high

but emotions wont grow

yet theres still this appeal......

yet its something so pure......


as i cant function no more oooosssss

@charlton. So if you have a horse who runs to a ridiculously high rating once and then disappears never to be seen again, you would say they're better than a horse that wins 12 group ones. That imo is moronic.

But this game is all about opinions.

people are looking back with rose-tinted specs. everyone has fond memories of Pebbles, Dahlia, Oh So Sharp, Tryptych whi had their moments but these horse were well exposed and beaten many times by moderate types.

for 4 seasons now Enable has raced in virtually every race she could taking on colts, younger horses, older horses, on 4 different islands. she's been beaten twice - once in what was essentially a prep race when Gosden told us before she wasn't fit - and the other time mugged by a horse running very wide in a bog.

she may not have the highest rating (which are pretty meaningless anyway) but her achievements dwarf almost every other European thoroughbred of the last 50 years.

I have to agree A.T I have been watching Racing for the past 30+ Years and she is up there with all The Greats.

I should have said 40+ Years.

An 'all-time great' available at 1.50 and you backed the 2nd fav.
Back to punting school for you!

Yes and I wonder why I am skint.

A_T Enable has actually been beaten 3 times

I'm definitely in the Enable camp, to say she's not a great is simply ridiculous even before yesterdays stroll around Ascot that created racing history. BHA and Timeform ratings are based on a system that is far too simplistic to be accurate, but unfortunately it's the ruler by which we measure equine greatness (or otherwise).

Lists of top 10 or top 50 mares are simply an opinion of the creator, but to exclude Enable from either is mind boggling.

She has a racing CV that will probably never be bettered, 12 different courses in 4 countries, variables of distance and ground over 4 seasons. She's better than many colts above her in the ratings and over 12f on decent ground i can't think of any mares of bygone years that would beat her at her best (and i've seen many of them).

think of any fillies or mares of bygone years

Acey, I misclicked a bet yesterday and backed instead of laying. Cost a lot for me.
So I'm going back to school as well!

AT your remark about being beaten by moderate horses is both insulting and silly.

Enable is a very good horse and potentially the best around but you would have to be living in a bubble to think she has beaten anything of note. If she had the chance against better horses she may easily have beaten them but apart from Magical who is a nice filly she has beaten Sovereign, Crystal Ocean, Sea of Class, Cloth of Stars, Rain Goddess and Rhodedenrom. And she was beaten by Waldgeist who has been beaten 11 times.

And these horses have won how many open races, not just against there own female sex? Three races? Four races? Not many.

She is the best around and brightens up the day but try not to downgrade other great mares for cheap point-scoring.

Dahlia was a wonderful mare she ran 45 times unlike Enable 17 times and all over the world. She ran in three Kg's but the one she was third in was the Grundy v Bustino race.   And she wasn't even the best in her country Allez France was.

brigus all your posts should be prefaced by a remark that you don't believe a good horse has been foaled in the last 20 years (or is it 30?). you're completely unable to formulate coherent arguments other than "xxxx was a wonderful horse." etc etc

You clearly have a problem reading AT. I thought I formulated a good reason above without going into too much detail. If that is not good enough for then don't confuse me with someone who cares.

I think Enable is a wonderful mare to have around and it wasn't me who started slagging off previous great mares, it was you.

@Andrew

The list is from 2016, hence Enable's exclusion.

Brigust,are you up for joining our tipping team,one space left?

on the contrary brigust you care too much and seem to take it as affront when someone has the temerity to suggest a modern horse might be as good as (or even better) than one of your favourites from the 70s and 80s. your arguments are always based on emotion without any real coherence.

AT if you think Enable is better than anything that has run before that is up to you and I could not care less. But to slag off the other horses is not the way to go. I am all for people forming their own opinions, that's racing, but when posters try to PROVE their point by insulting others that is a different matter. Opinions are opinions, proving it is something else.

Hi Glentoby. I have never even heard of you tipping team but my availability and consistency is pretty limited along with my ability to keep up with the form. Many thanks for the offer anyway.

Ok Brigust,it is a new compy being set up by undecided for teams of 8 (he has run it previously).We are all newbies to it I think,it only requires one tip per player per week if I understand it correctly so no problem if you have limited time.Have a look at the Get Your Tips For The Lads thread to see the rest of the team,your experience would be an asset imo.

AOB/Coolmore sent their 2nd team to Ascot and got annihilated by Enable; the win of Magical at the Curragh today has no value or credence as the opposition was pish poor.

Enable beat a couple of AOB/Coolmore Gp1 donkeys in a canter - that's a fact. The ARC is a different kettle of fish.

Enable vs Love in the Yorkshire Oaks; 5/4 each. There's a near zero chance they will both turn up. My bet is Enable will take an easier route given the weight concession she'd have to forego. Thus, 5/4 for Love is a stocking bet (all things being equal) esp with Magical destined for the Juddmonte or Ireland, all things being equal.

Japan returned with a sore foot the next day; a stone bruise probably the reason for his abysmal run in the King George against Enable.

I would take that with a pinch of salt.I would like to believe it though.

AOB, evidence please?

impossible123

impossible123
26 Jul 20 17:55
Joined: 07 Sep 15
| Topic/replies: 17,054 | Blogger: impossible123's blog
Enable beat a couple of AOB/Coolmore Gp1 donkeys in a canter - that's a fact. The ARC is a different kettle of fish.

Enable vs Love in the Yorkshire Oaks; 5/4 each. There's a near zero chance they will both turn up. My bet is Enable will take an easier route given the weight concession she'd have to forego. Thus, 5/4 for Love is a stocking bet (all things being equal) esp with Magical destined for the Juddmonte or Ireland, all things being equal.

The problem with that supposition is that Gosden has said that he either wants to run Enable in the Yorks Oaks or the Juddmonte, where she could meet the likes of Ghaiyyath and Kameko, both of whom would give her an extremely hard race over the 10f

I believe Gosden also said the other options could be running in a "weak" race or a racecourse gallop. I just cannot see Enable running in the Yorkshire Oaks conceding a hefty wfa allowance to Love if Love is present; AOB ran Seventh Heaven against Found (won the Arc the same year) one year with the latter conceding 10lbs to her stablemate.

For sure one or both will not show, all things being equal, and the advantage is held by Love.