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stewarty b
02 Jul 20 17:59
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Date Joined: 02 Aug 02
| Topic/replies: 29,555 | Blogger: stewarty b's blog
I've went through this race twice and I'm dumbfounded as to why English King is FAV to win imho.( probably the Frankie factor)  I may do a place lay. As for the race itself I can't remember a poorer Derby field.  I do have one in mind that I fancy strongly that I'm likely to back but will wait until Saturday to name it due the fact the going could change if there's any rain about.


Any sensible thoughts welcome.
Pause Switch to Standard View 4:55 Epsom 4 JUL 2020 ITf (1m4f6y)...
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Report glentoby July 4, 2020 5:01 PM BST
Laugh Quality out of the Bottom Drawer...........AOB a genius? ROFLLaughCrazy
Report ColeWorldNoBlanket July 4, 2020 5:02 PM BST
Joke of a race, fck off O'Brien
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND July 4, 2020 5:02 PM BST
Hold your tickets VAR
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 5:02 PM BST
the sectionals & split screen between oaks & derby will be fascinating
Report racing6699 July 4, 2020 5:02 PM BST
what were they all scared of exactly? winning?
Report Angoose July 4, 2020 5:02 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 11:01AM, GRANTCKING wrote:


funniest race ive ever seen


Surely that would be the human race Grin

Report Angela Rebecchi July 4, 2020 5:02 PM BST
never seen a Derby like that, incredible. It has smashed them.
Report Kriskin July 4, 2020 5:03 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 11:02AM, ColeWorldNoBlanket wrote:


Joke of a race, fck off O'Brien


Why?  His horse won out of the park.

Report sageform July 4, 2020 5:03 PM BST
gutted to not back Khalifa sat a place but I thought that the Balding yard had a good line between him and Kameko! Race all over 5 furlongs out when the first 2 were clear.
Report Ibrahima Sonko July 4, 2020 5:03 PM BST
1st Serpentine  (14)25/1
2nd Khalifa Sat  (7)50/1
3rd Amhran Na Bhfiann  (1)66/1
4th Kameko (USA) (6)5/2fav

Tricast anyone ?
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND July 4, 2020 5:03 PM BST
Won a maiden 7 days ago Laugh
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 5:03 PM BST
will wait for the sectionals but winner cannot have gone too hard surely...so WTF was going on behind!!
Report Kriskin July 4, 2020 5:05 PM BST
O'Brien and Galileo what a combination.  What a record both of them have.  All records must be smashed left, right & centre.  We will NEVER see the likes again
Report Angela Rebecchi July 4, 2020 5:05 PM BST
21            £1,647       
22            £5,092       
23            £3,622       
24            £2,383       
25            £7,965       
26            £17,002       
27            £8,901       
28            £3,628       
29            £6,557       
30            £18,685       
32            £10,227       
34            £5,557    £1,127    £41,582
36            £3,707       
38            £724       
40            £178
Report racing6699 July 4, 2020 5:05 PM BST
The winner is not the best horse in the race - it got again easy lead (watch the other races at epsom all day) and won. Its pretty simple. Nothing has come from back. Yet the wee men all sat like scared little mouses at the back scared of committing - even Buick said previous race said the same
Report elise July 4, 2020 5:05 PM BST
.so WTF was going on behind!!  ..... exactly, a maiden at lingfield and you'd be wondering, the derby?
Report impossible123 July 4, 2020 5:05 PM BST
It shows how stupid jockeys can be!
Report Kriskin July 4, 2020 5:06 PM BST
Slightly slower than the Oaks by freactions
Report Willie Shafter. July 4, 2020 5:07 PM BST
wd racing..did you go in heavy when it was 10/1 a mile out 8L clear?
Report Ibrahima Sonko July 4, 2020 5:07 PM BST
Tote Exacta- £1643.90 Tote Trifecta- £29882.90 CSF- £896.62 Tricast- £55977.83
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 5:07 PM BST
kameko too keen early seeing too much daylight, then hooked back to get cover...compromising the even pace...race lost 1st half mile
Report racing6699 July 4, 2020 5:07 PM BST
The jockeys are brain dead im sorry it needs to be said! Frankie all day seems to be obsessed by strangling his horse down the field. Well how did that work out on any of his rides? In contrast the jockeys who have kicked on and been positive have all outran their odds
Report elise July 4, 2020 5:07 PM BST
tricast lol
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND July 4, 2020 5:08 PM BST
Marquand owes Fwankie a drink.
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 5:08 PM BST
pretty ironic that marquand has ridden a peach...as at goodwood
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 5:08 PM BST
as the owner & trainer said

"only 1 derby"

pmsl

nice to see egg on all faces
Report Angela Rebecchi July 4, 2020 5:09 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 11:07AM, wondersobright wrote:


kameko too keen early seeing too much daylight, then hooked back to get cover...compromising the even pace...race lost 1st half mile


Yeah. Going to get a nice price on it in the future. With different owners mind you it would have drifted to 8.0+ today and been even bigger prices in the future.

Report glentoby July 4, 2020 5:09 PM BST
So how many of the previous multiple winning trainers who's record he beat had half the field running for them? He and Ballydoyle have reduced the Derby to a laughable spectacle? LaughCrazy
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 5:10 PM BST
sussex stakes ange...kameko massive runner back at 8f receiving wfa
Report Willie Shafter. July 4, 2020 5:10 PM BST
english king best horse in race imo
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 5:11 PM BST
at 1m 4f agree
Report sageform July 4, 2020 5:12 PM BST
I was obviously rooting for the Balding runners who both ran well but as very few of the runners had any chance to show what they were capable of before today, it was not that surprising that 3 outsiders were 123.
Report glentoby July 4, 2020 5:12 PM BST
No doubt about that Steve,winner good bet for the Triumph imvho?Wink
Report glentoby July 4, 2020 5:14 PM BST
Cheek Pieces,Lip Chains with rubber...............Martin will be ecstatic.ScaredScared
Report sageform July 4, 2020 5:14 PM BST
They could run it 20 times and that horse would win 10 lengths or more every time imo. He was on the bridle 2 furlongs out and most of the others were starting to row away but made no ground on him at all. 15lb better than any of them.
Report sageform July 4, 2020 5:16 PM BST
Don't see English King ever being better than he was at Lingfield which was not a great race.
Report roggrain July 4, 2020 5:16 PM BST
British racing...'best in the World' The Derby, 'The Greatest horse race in the World'. Roll on the Arc and Breeder's Cup (where the US jockeys

know exactly what the sectionals of the leader are).
Report Willie Shafter. July 4, 2020 5:20 PM BST
track has suited front horses all day..they gave it a 10L start..english king done well to get a possy from st1..ran a blinder under the circumstances.
Report sageform July 4, 2020 5:21 PM BST
Do you think that anything apart from the first 2 really stay 12 furlongs?
Report impossible123 July 4, 2020 5:21 PM BST
The "supposed" pacesetter from AOB stole the 2020 Epsom Derby!!!
Report Willie Shafter. July 4, 2020 5:23 PM BST
sageform 04 Jul 20 17:21 
Do you think that anything apart from the first 2 really stay 12 furlongs?

didnt you notice EK staying on?
Report glentoby July 4, 2020 5:27 PM BST
English King would/will slaughter the winner in a rematch,even over same C & D. NAP
Report the old nanny ;-) July 4, 2020 5:27 PM BST
Staying on , The rest of the Fooking field were Devoid Laugh I bet the Russian thing a Place

Looks like it needs 6 miles after that Laugh
Report glentoby July 4, 2020 5:27 PM BST
English King would/will slaughter the winner in a rematch,even over same C & D. NAP
Report xmoneyx July 4, 2020 5:29 PM BST
professional punters burned WhoopsWink
Report roadrunner46 July 4, 2020 5:30 PM BST
aiden o brien's plan went exactly to plan, have to agree they knew that serpentine was their  number 1 horse, the other jockeys were useless, not even giving  punters a run for their money, i backed kameko / english king / mogul and still wasn't  convinced  id get the winner, there was lot of unexposed types in the race, im not surprised with the result, few people would of sussed out the winner was a lively outsider.
Report racing6699 July 4, 2020 5:31 PM BST
AOB plan worked perfectly.
Report impossible123 July 4, 2020 5:35 PM BST
The jockeys behind the front two ought to be suspended for riding an injudicious race. It was a professional shambles at its worst!
Report jumper3 July 4, 2020 5:41 PM BST
They did not know Serpentine was their no. 1. Of course, he may well become their best 3 year old colt. Today, the first and the third were the Ballydoyle pacemakers. The trouble is that sometimes they do keep on and win, not helped by jockeys behind not being able to assess the sectionals. From memory, we have at least one Irish Derby and an Epsom Oaks as well as a Derby where this has happened.

The O'Brien stable though does run horses that are seen as outsiders that are impeccably bred. Most often it will be the fancied ones in G1s that deliver the goods, such as Love in the Oaks. Sometimes, it will be the turn of the others.

This is also not a normal course, never mind having to assess the sectionals who have to ensure your mount can deal with the camber and the undulations.
Report glentoby July 4, 2020 5:45 PM BST
Jumper3,give up the game before you suffer irreparable damage mate.
Report truehoncho July 4, 2020 5:45 PM BST
Absolutely right Impossible. Professionals??? What a bunch of clowns.
Report roadrunner46 July 4, 2020 5:52 PM BST
mogul was a brilliant decoy for frankie to track through the raceLaugh agree with most of what you say about stable
Report Steamship July 4, 2020 5:53 PM BST
Serpentine was not a pacemaker he was only 25/1. Jockey just kicked on while others where sleeping. Great rides by first 3.
Report truehoncho July 4, 2020 5:55 PM BST
too many jockeys have no clue about pace and just want to follow something. No confidence to make it themselves in case they **** it up.
Report Daryl Revok July 4, 2020 5:56 PM BST
Agree with Jumper3, when Listen pebbledashs big races he always has horses front, middle and rear
Report jumper3 July 4, 2020 6:01 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 11:45AM, glentoby wrote:


Jumper3,give up the game before you suffer irreparable damage mate.


Look, I wasn't on the winner but was on Andrew Balding's 2nd each way. I have been long enough in this game, thanks for your concern, but I know enough about 3 year olds and the difficulties of being able to work your way around Epsom. The point I am trying to make is that all of these Coolmore horses are top quality. They are not just plodders. Sometimes, due to a variety of reasons, their higher priced horses in high profile races and on the flat there is probably no higher than the Derby, keep their necks out. Serpentine has run his heart out. He may never win another race. His exertions today may mean that's it for him. Horses are funny individuals, they are not machines.

Report Giddy July 4, 2020 6:19 PM BST
Personally. I think it would be folly to underestimate the winner
Report glentoby July 4, 2020 6:24 PM BST
Jumper3,no offence meant but "All of these Coolmore horse are top quality" REALLY?Shocked
Report liberator of the oppressed July 4, 2020 6:24 PM BST
Racing's image once again they all think we are numpties.
Report racing6699 July 4, 2020 6:26 PM BST
at least we saw a superstar (LOVE) - she was star of show today! Most jockeys just useless and embarrassing all races!
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! July 4, 2020 6:29 PM BST
Her time was only 0.4 sec faster than the derbi

Grin
Report sageform July 4, 2020 6:30 PM BST
Kameko was walking for the last 2 furlongs but only one horse, the third, could get past him. They were all legless apart from the winner. English King beat Berkshire Rocco 2.5 lengths at Lingfield and he is evidently the Balding third string at best.
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 6:33 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 11:55AM, truehoncho wrote:


too many jockeys have no clue about pace and just want to follow something. No confidence to make it themselves in case they **** it up.


absolutely right

Report sageform July 4, 2020 6:34 PM BST
I agree that any Coolmore 3yo by Galileo is potentially a Group 1 horse. In most years they are tested before the Derby but this year they were not. When you train 4 or 5 potential winners you can afford to try different tactics on some of them. It is possible that Mogul would have won if ridden like Serpentine was but I doubt it.
Report Willie Shafter. July 4, 2020 6:38 PM BST
English King beat Berkshire Rocco 2.5 lengths at Lingfield

easing down.
Report GRANTCKING July 4, 2020 7:12 PM BST
english king was closing like a train in the end but was just given too much to do
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 7:19 PM BST
spot on cooper
Report G Hall July 4, 2020 7:25 PM BST
Can you imagine if Lester was riding English King he would be given every chance
Report jumper3 July 4, 2020 7:25 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 12:24PM, glentoby wrote:


Jumper3,no offence meant but "All of these Coolmore horse are top quality" REALLY?


No. Fair point. Most are. Some are not. I know someone who has bought into one of these at one of the Sales, for pennies in the end. Well bred though. We are going off in another area though.

Now watched it twice again. They thought they would catch him but he just didn't go that fast. Usually of the corner at Epsom you feel you can catch a horse out in front. It is a long way home that straight. Another half a furlong and I think he would have petered out. English King ran a good race from stall 1.

Report truehoncho July 4, 2020 7:33 PM BST
Well on average they are a million miles better quality than the rest. EK had 2 others in front of him other than the winner and one of those was AOB's. No excuses for that. The jockeys behind were clowns but that horse is very very good.
Report G Hall July 4, 2020 7:39 PM BST
They the jockeys are lucky they would never survive in America or Australia
Report 4builder4 July 4, 2020 8:06 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 1:12PM, GRANTCKING wrote:


english king was closing like a train in the end but was just given too much to do


hardly call it finishing like a train, Russ Emp came from further back and would have been on EK's tail had the Heffer ridden it out instead of just coasting last half furlong. Don't think you could take anything out of the race, with any confidence, as it was a farce.Jocks just misjudged it altogether and none of them,bar the 1,2,3rd, could say they would ride the same race again.
I backed EK and Mogul ew and for about 5 seconds 3 out I thought Mogul was going to swoop lol.
Serpentines Stud fee next year £50k with no offers, 3 years time £5k a pop for a jumper imo

Report metro john July 4, 2020 11:19 PM BST
The winner was so impressive, why people are casting doubt on a stunning performance, I really can't see, they had all the time they needed, the best horse won in the conditions. amazing pace for the trip.
just impossible to rate.
Report penzance July 4, 2020 11:25 PM BST
Lingfield Trial form = Sh1t
Report driver2 July 5, 2020 2:10 AM BST
Unbelievable how many of you are blaming the jockeys for getting beat, didn't you hear what Emmet McNamara said after the race, Aiden told me to kick on coming into the straight, "he wont stop!" AOB knew that the one horse in the race that had the class spoil his party was Kameko and he put Serpentine in the race to exploit Kameko's possible weakness and he was right, Kameko didn't stay, the rest of the field were just not up to the task and never got near the winner. Instead of talking through your pockets, you should congratulate a brilliant trainer for getting it right. Without Serpentine, the other donkeys would probably have handed the race to Kameko.
Report vol n. oven July 5, 2020 3:28 AM BST
commentators and pundits are forever talking of jockeys having 'clocks in their head'except for steve cauthen, are they talking bollax ?
Report roadrunner46 July 5, 2020 5:48 AM BST
congratulate a brilliant trainer who now uses the race like a playthingLaugh as the saying goes power corrupts
Report elisjohn July 5, 2020 7:29 AM BST
are we really saying love is a superstar, lets see when she takes on enable, love beat nothing in the gns, the 3rd still a maiden after dozen races, and the 2nd couldnt win a group3 yesterday. now the oaks , oh so sharp won this race by 6 lengths guess who was 2nd , triptych, there wasnt a horse behind love yesterday that would be a stone near triptych. not one of the runners had even won a listed race , except the dettori horse , whod won a newcastle maiden in a slow time, and won a group2 at r ascot when somebody had to, that was a poor oaks.
Report elise July 5, 2020 7:34 AM BST
might be poor in behind, clock says she wasn't
Report driver2 July 5, 2020 9:40 AM BST
I think you'll be proved wrong EJ,, Love is good enough to take on the best imo. Did you see a filly behind Love yesterday that was within a stone of her? I didn't.
Report driver2 July 5, 2020 10:10 AM BST
glentoby

glentoby
04 Jul 20 17:27
Joined: 12 Mar 06
| Topic/replies: 11,788 | Blogger: glentoby's blog
English King would/will slaughter the winner in a rematch,even over same C & D. NAP

Did molerat tell you that or did you work it out yourself over a few sherbets? English King couldn't even get past the non staying Kameko. Serpentine was one of only 3 horses yesterday who clocked a time faster than the standard and won the Derby brilliantly, if they ever did meet again, I'd be in the front of the queue to take your bet!
Report Tiger Tiger July 5, 2020 10:12 AM BST
driver205 Jul 20 02:10Joined: 25 Nov 01 |

Unbelievable how many of you are blaming the jockeys for getting beat, didn't you hear what Emmet McNamara said after the race, Aiden told me to kick on coming into the straight, "he wont stop!" AOB knew that the one horse in the race that had the class spoil his party was Kameko and he put Serpentine in the race to exploit Kameko's possible weakness and he was right, Kameko didn't stay, the rest of the field were just not up to the task and never got near the winner. Instead of talking through your pockets, you should congratulate a brilliant trainer for getting it right. Without Serpentine, the other donkeys would probably have handed the race to Kameko.



Well said that man.
Report stewarty b July 5, 2020 10:18 AM BST
Thew winner did a Shergar imho.
Report Tiger Tiger July 5, 2020 11:10 AM BST
Speaking of which.....Shergar's winning time was 2.44.21 the winners either side of that (Henbit and Golden Fleece) were ten seconds faster!
Report Ramruma July 5, 2020 11:15 AM BST
Love's Oaks was faster than Serpentine's Derby. Probably the jockeys behind were lured into a false sense of security by having reeled in the Oaks pace-setter an hour or so earlier.
Report FELTFAIR July 5, 2020 11:44 AM BST
"are we really saying love is a superstar"

Yes, she broke the track record.
Report know all July 5, 2020 11:48 AM BST
0.4 seconds faster loves win, that winner could be a superstar the improvement to come could be spectacular but we know like last years winner they can go either way but with punters thinking it was a lucky win then those that think the opposite could be in for a bonus price next time it runs, im the latter a speculator performance made sweeter as i backed it, i backed 4 in it, all aidens mogul 14/1 last year knowing id have to bet the rest and at 29/1 didnt need a lot on to make a very good profit, had 4 in last weeks irish derby even had the forecast mine finished 123 and 9 , its not hard to work out and not rocket science i did no work on the race one trainer is head and shoulders above anyone else. i have mates who know more about racing than i would ever know and they just cant bet 4 of aidens in a race why because they find it impossible to do something they havent done all there losing lives, you cant change folks no matter what you tell em
Report duncan idaho July 5, 2020 11:48 AM BST
"are we really saying love is a superstar"

Yes, she broke the track record.



might be wrong but think there was some suggestion that the rail is usually out 10 yrds or so for Oaks day so that there's fresh ground for the Derby...obviously that wasnt the case yday, so yday's Oaks run over shorter distance than usual if so
Report duncan idaho July 5, 2020 11:53 AM BST
one trainer is head and shoulders above anyone else


...as a result of getting to train all the best Galileos
Report wondersobright July 5, 2020 11:54 AM BST
exactly dunc...seems that opportunity cost is a concept that some can't grasp Grin
Report know all July 5, 2020 12:14 PM BST
one trainer is head and shoulders above anyone else


...as a result of getting to train all the best Galileos

no matter how, the facts cant lie and a license to print it so why is everyone not on them, as said previously most will never change there losing habits no matter what anyone says or facts tell them, year after year the same he has won 6 of the last 9 derbys why would anyone back against him its madness at its extreme, he had the first 5 home in the deby last year he had first 3 in irish derby last week, he dosent know which one but he does know one of them will
Report stewarty b July 5, 2020 12:34 PM BST
know all, of the many selections on the thread, nobody tipped up the winner. Amazing.
Report truehoncho July 5, 2020 2:42 PM BST
exactly dunc...seems that opportunity cost is a concept that some can't grasp Grin  ---  What a load of nonesense. The idea that all these other trainers could consistently send out the level of winners that AOB does if they had lots of Galileo's is just plain silly. Most of them can't get what they have got to the track. To keep one horse fit and up to scratch is one thing, to get multiple horses year in year out to all the big races home and abroad is a skill that those Newmarket 'born with silver spoons in their mouths' trainers can only dream about.
Report ReaseHeath July 5, 2020 4:03 PM BST

Jul 5, 2020 -- 8:42AM, truehoncho wrote:


exactly dunc...seems that opportunity cost is a concept that some can't grasp Grin  ---  What a load of nonesense. The idea that all these other trainers could consistently send out the level of winners that AOB does if they had lots of Galileo's is just plain silly. Most of them can't get what they have got to the track. To keep one horse fit and up to scratch is one thing, to get multiple horses year in year out to all the big races home and abroad is a skill that those Newmarket 'born with silver spoons in their mouths' trainers can only dream about.


Commpare Serpentine with Highest Ground. Serpentine only broke his maiden 8 days ago and the Derby was his third race in 22 days. Stoute is going to run Highest Ground in the rescheduled Dante next week, only 5 days after he could've run in the Derby.

Stoute's 3yos never seem to be ready for the classics in May and June these days - apart from this year, the classic are at the same time every year - the trainers have 6 months to work towards them (I appreciate things can go wrong over the winter) - he's had a month longer this year and his best 3yo colt is still not ready (at least in his eyes).

Nobody in the racing media ever questions this, they merely dub him a master with the older horses due his patience - now Stoute has forgotten more about training racehorses than I'll ever know but that does n't mean he's beyond reproach.

Imagine Guardiola leaving De Bruyne out of a Premier League blockbuster against Liverpool so that he can play against Reading in the Carling Cup?

O'Brien uses the trials as exactly that - to educate young horses, bring them on fitness wise and so that he can learn about them - most of 'em are ready for their big engagements and if they underperform they re-group and go again.

I bet AOB sends 2yos to the July meeting next week which blew out at Royal Ascot because they were asked to back up too quickly due to Covid 19, some of 'em will win - a lot of the UK trainers won't be running their best 2yos until back end maidens in September (probably October this year)

Report elisjohn July 5, 2020 10:14 PM BST
exactly driver, she beat trees yesterday , not one listed winner let alone a group race, bar franky darling , the standard is shocking in the 2000s.
Report Pilsudski July 6, 2020 8:31 AM BST
If Serpentine was their No 1,why was Moore on Mogul ?
Report metro john July 6, 2020 11:03 AM BST
The Derby is impossible to rate highly on this performance, not because of the quality of the race but the method of handicapping, my ratings like others will read similar, maybe people should reflect on some of those Frankel runs(not Derby)  and note you have horses of the quality of English King and Mogul and Kameko given ratings in line with the likes of Bullet Train 111-113, this should set alarm bells ringing.

We all know Bullet Train would not be a match with any of the above?.
Report metro john July 6, 2020 11:10 AM BST
Serpentine was fantastic a remarkable effort, and yet only a rating of 123.
Report 1st time poster July 6, 2020 11:55 AM BST
could be another AOB classic/derby winner who never wins again,another gallop injury maybe ,if it was a fluke their breeding operation means they've got to mask /hide,juggle around maybe 20 or more better 3 yr olds in the yard
Report wondersobright July 6, 2020 12:01 PM BST
truehoncho • July 5, 2020 2:42 PM BST
The idea that all these other trainers could consistently send out the level of winners that AOB does if they had lots of Galileo's is just plain silly.


I never said or suggested that they would/could, I said no others have had the opportunity
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