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thebootman
03 Jun 20 09:57
Joined:
Date Joined: 22 Jan 04
| Topic/replies: 415 | Blogger: thebootman's blog
I'm after feedback as to how the new ATR stream has been working for everyone over the past 2 days at Newcastle?

Obviously latency is an issue, even on the minimum setting the pictures are about 1.7 seconds behind live, but my pictures have been far from fluent, making it very hard to gauge how a horse is travelling and ability to read a race. Main issues are a pause followed by a black screen for a second throughout the race and it's been particularly bad at the end of a race. I've tried on different browsers/ latency settings and it makes little difference.

Please post in here if you have had similar issues or indeed if the stream has been working well. It will help Betfair see how many are affected.
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Report loper July 11, 2020 4:51 PM BST
Newcastle ok
Report HappyHibby July 11, 2020 4:51 PM BST
correct Wesdag.

nowt worse than the nanny society...
Report dustybin July 11, 2020 4:55 PM BST
Its hardly nanny state putting up warning that are actually relevant to a changing threat.
HH you the most vocal on here....youve gone from complaining of slow pics to john wayne in the wild west, which is it?
Or you got the cowboy boots on because you are aware of todays danger and stuff anyone who isnt?
Report geoff m July 11, 2020 4:57 PM BST
3rd Official rating 50! think he may need to come on a bit for run.
Report Wesdag July 11, 2020 5:08 PM BST
Dusty Laugh

Think we'll have to agree to disagree.

Just don't think BF should be on hand to wipe everyone's arse.

It's not as if they don't provide a warning about pic delays.
Report HappyHibby July 11, 2020 5:08 PM BST
aye i complain about slow pics in terms of the issues we are having with RTV LV (when we were given a trial in February that seemed to go pretty well and then all of a sudden they cannot reproduce that speed) for whatever reason...

i think it's awful and i complain about it on here all the time...

today's ASCOT issue is completely different...

it seems to be some sort of technical issue to do with ASCOT only...

i have no idea what it is...

and it would appear Betfair has been unable to fix it...

have i found it frustrating...?

YES I HAVE...

but i spotted it BEFORE race 1 and if i can spot it before race 1 then so should others...

as i said earlier on we are all big boys on here (or we should be)...

it's every man for himself as far as i am concerned...

for example i am well aware of folk getting facetime pics / watching dodgy satellite streams etc...

i don't like it and hopefully if / when RTV LV gets quicker it will help to eradicate certainly the RTV side of things...

BUT I ACCEPT IT and i don't expect to be mollycoddled regarding that issue...

i play in running knowing full wee it ain't a level playing field and things can go wrong from a technical point of view from time to time...

and yes if folk get caught out coz they didn't know ASCOT is 10-15 seconds slower than it should be then so be it...

just like i didn't care about folk who lost out on the thing at Hamilton the other day when David Nolan weighed in light...

i've always said i'm selfish on here...

never denied it.
Report Wesdag July 11, 2020 5:12 PM BST
Laugh
Report dustybin July 11, 2020 5:12 PM BST
yep
The type who'd want others to call fire if their place was aflame, but not so bothered about being reciprocal
Report HappyHibby July 11, 2020 5:14 PM BST
did i not see on here before mr.Hunt saying you used to get facetime pics or something like that dustybin...?

i apologise if that is not the case but it rings a bell...
Report HappyHibby July 11, 2020 5:22 PM BST
The type who'd want others to call fire if their place was aflame, but not so bothered about being reciprocal

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what utter tripe man.

comparing in running on Betfair to someone's house being on fire...

how bizarre.
Report Latalomne July 11, 2020 5:24 PM BST
It's the sort of thing that could stop a recreational punter from betting here for good.  I just cannot get my head around why you would be so anti making them aware of such an exceptional circumstance.  Truly baffling, IMHO.
Report Wesdag July 11, 2020 5:26 PM BST
Because there are warnings given on LV & more if you click for further information.

If you are a newbie/novice, wouldn't it make sense to avail yourself of this simple information?
Report HappyHibby July 11, 2020 5:26 PM BST
i'm not so anti it Latalomne...

they can do it if they want...

as i keep repeating we are all big boys on here (or we should be)...

i make it MY responsibility to work things like that out for myself...

i don't expect Betfair to hold my hand all the time...
Report duffy July 11, 2020 5:37 PM BST
We are not talking about US, we all know the score, what I can't understand is why Betfair don't feel the need to protect, what might be new customers, people that benefit Betfair people that Betfair want to encourage to their site.
Report pablo-fanque July 11, 2020 5:37 PM BST
there is no downside to warning people of betfair live video issues , added delays

there are downsides to not warning people
Report Latalomne July 11, 2020 5:42 PM BST
PF - Boom.  Exactly!
Report Wesdag July 11, 2020 5:50 PM BST
Well if you guys feel so strongly, please do let BF know.
Report duffy July 11, 2020 5:51 PM BST
We are aware of the latency issues that customers have been experiencing with Racing TV streams since the return of the UKI racing last week. This problem is on the stream provider’s side and is currently being fixed. Due to the complex nature of the systems involved however, this may take several weeks to resolve. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. We are committed to providing the lowest possible latency stream to our customers. When we have further updates we will make another announcement.


Why bother posting that, we all know the score,, what?? just because they showed us a good trial that worked, that doesn't mean that they are committed to delivering it!!, they posted that as a courtesy.

Betfair are running a business that requires them attracting customers, that is the reason they should be more pro active, again I'm not talking about US, we all know the score, but they should be looking to make people more unsuspecting aware, if not for the customers sake, for their own sake.

Forget about what they are obliged to do, we're talking about good and bad PR.
Report duffy July 11, 2020 5:54 PM BST
The liquidity issue that plenty moan about is improved by more people playing, let's not put them off eh? If it requires the odd message here and there, let's post oneCrazy
Report duffy July 16, 2020 6:13 AM BST
The Ascot debacle got a mention on their Weighed In podcast with Calvin and Blake, nothing really new though, only that it is being investigated, they did also mentioned that the trial speeds for the RTV pics have not been delivered subsequently, but again the default reply was that it was the provider that was the issue.
Report Wesdag July 16, 2020 12:20 PM BST
Uttox LV phucked - on/off continually!!
Report thurnscoe thunder July 16, 2020 12:39 PM BST
Mine was fine before and throughout the race
Report jamesdean July 16, 2020 12:39 PM BST
ok here for uttox
Report Wesdag July 16, 2020 12:45 PM BST
Betfair Help
@BetfairCS
·
57s
Replying to
@wesdag
Hi there. Good afternoon. Our live video team are aware of this and are looking into fixing this. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. 
Report Latalomne July 16, 2020 12:46 PM BST
Was fine here too.
Report jamesdean July 16, 2020 2:11 PM BST
not very good here 2.15 race
Report ProSniper July 16, 2020 3:00 PM BST
Uttox stream the worst I've seen for ages Angry
Report mind your own B August 28, 2020 1:05 PM BST
CALLING BOOTMAN the sky lv had been fine up till a week ago now awful unplayable for last 7 days any chance of a nudge to BF
Report jamesdean August 28, 2020 1:07 PM BST
been an absolute joke for the last 2 weeks every sky track near unplayable
Report Bellamy Road August 28, 2020 1:09 PM BST
been shocking all week for me also..
Report dustybin August 28, 2020 1:10 PM BST
IR finished on ATR tracks
Report Wesdag August 28, 2020 2:14 PM BST
not noticed any problems here
Report mind your own B August 29, 2020 2:29 PM BST
Just watched the race at Windsor once again stick city people need to ring them we will never get it sorted
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 2:31 PM BST
https://twitter.com/BetfairCS/with_replies?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

complain there ^...only place they take notice
Report system99 August 29, 2020 2:41 PM BST
certainly a big downturn in stability the last week or so on ATR tracks
Report mind your own B August 29, 2020 2:43 PM BST
If people can keep this as a point of complaint about the sky tracks they can see how many people are pissed off with it instead of loads of other threads
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 2:48 PM BST
theres only 1 other thread tbf, they dont give a fk aboutbwhat is written on here anyway, twitter is the only place they listen these days
Report thebootman August 29, 2020 2:55 PM BST
I have advised my contacts at both Betfair and ATR that the performance of BLV has been even worse than the normal poor standard over the past 2 weeks. They are looking into it, though what difference it will make only time will tell. I have also made them aware of the various threads on the forum. If you have any feedback for them fire away.
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 2:59 PM BST
Feedback for them

Why does the usa sky racing run so smooth/fast yet the uk sky one is an absolute shower? Why not just use whatever it is they are using to show the yank stuff
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 3:02 PM BST
^How do you know the USA stuff isnt 30 seconds behind live?
Report HappyHibby August 29, 2020 3:03 PM BST
bootman...

why did they change the ATR LV format about 1 week ago without any prior notice...?

been awful here since then...
Report Wesdag August 29, 2020 3:04 PM BST

Aug 29, 2020 -- 4:02PM, dustybin wrote:


^How do you know the USA stuff isnt 30 seconds behind live?


That's what I was going to ask.

Picture quality is not a problem if you're not bothered about speed.

Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 3:08 PM BST
I played the odd race in us when uk racing was on lockdown and it played well. Quite a few still play on it and never any complaints about
speed. Liquidity however isnt great
Report Wesdag August 29, 2020 3:10 PM BST
BF I imagine suspend off the same pics as everyone so there's no advantage to be had.

Imo of course.
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 3:10 PM BST
But there might not be any track players on USA, so everyone could just be betting on stuff 30s latter
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 3:11 PM BST
No advantage unless somebody gets on course, then its like shooting fish in a barrel
Report Wesdag August 29, 2020 3:12 PM BST
Exactly, no track boys & facetimers...yet.
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 3:15 PM BST
well going by how it played, including late on and the betfair suspends start and end of race it seems good to me. Can time it against sky/atr as well
It's a different format to uk stuff.

They have monmutgh and wouldbine tonight back of 5 whilst the uk stuff is still on, take a look see for yourself
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 3:15 PM BST
Except...just because the tv broadcast on sky is way behind....that doesnt mean everyone sees that delayed version, somebody has it live for it to be delayed over sat
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 3:18 PM BST
wes if you are playing normal sky uk tracks on normal setting which is 1 second slower than normal i doubt you will find the us format any worse tbh
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 3:18 PM BST
1 second slower than minimum*
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 3:19 PM BST
JD but if they dont have track players, like wes says its immaterial what it looks like if thats the only media available
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 3:21 PM BST
Yep ok, it's not certain but worth a look.

They, betfair, seem to suspend at the right times start end of race which alludes to it being ok where as on the aus stuff the suspends are
miles out. The liquidity is **** but enough for someone to get a huge advantage if the live video was so slow
Report Wesdag August 29, 2020 3:22 PM BST
Yes, james, been playing US for a good while especially during the lockdown over here.

As you & dusty have said, it does play pretty fair.
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 3:25 PM BST
Why not try the us format, if it is not good revert to what we have now?
What is there to lose by trying it?  It's not as if what we have now is any good
Report ProSniper August 29, 2020 3:30 PM BST
Complaining is futile imo. booty's been leading his own charge to have things improved for MONTHS on end......backed up by enough people complaining directly on their twitter "help desk". The same pathetic issues remain firm and persistent. The only thing that would see these dire issues clear up is if nobody put any money at risk while this shyte is going on. But for the same reason the bookies get away with their rotten restrictions and closures, not enough people band together for change. Being the greedy, selfish, muggy industry that it is.. obviously helps keep them on the front foot.
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 3:34 PM BST
5.50 - 6.10 4 different US tracks on the live video and inplay
Report Wesdag August 29, 2020 3:47 PM BST
Imo, the irony is that US is probably best for home IR players because everyone is using the same pics.
Report Jack Bauer '24' August 29, 2020 3:56 PM BST
The pictures for US tracks are fine, smooth and pretty fast. Poor liquidity is the issue there.
Report Jack Bauer '24' August 29, 2020 4:02 PM BST
Although some have faster pics at certain tracks. You can see there bets hit the market before the action on the screen.
Report Jack Bauer '24' August 29, 2020 4:04 PM BST
*their bets
Report Big Cat August 29, 2020 4:32 PM BST
James, I understand the US pics are via a different service provider who are able to do ultra-low delay
The UK content is via a different 3rd party that uses the slower HLS streaming
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 4:35 PM BST
Betfair are paying top dollar for the streams. Why not demand the same service as the US stuff?
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 4:40 PM BST
If thats true it would be like putting on a full silver service for no customers

While all the people get dished up KFC cold chicken buckets
Report pablo-fanque August 29, 2020 4:41 PM BST
from what i have seen on the USA stream , there are people who have a faster stream , maybe 2 seconds on some tracks . betfair suspend before the stalls open on live video , sometimes 2 seconds or so .

what are they watching that can't be supplied to their customers to provide as fast as possible streams, or , do they purposely delay the live video so they can suspend without compromising the BSP ?
Report Big Cat August 29, 2020 4:41 PM BST
I don't know why it is the way that it is. I just know that the US stuff is sent to a Service Provider who can do latency of the order of 0.6s
I don't know why ATR/TRP content can't be delivered via the same service provider and technology
Regarding the US content. It will first be sent to ATR/TRP and that will add an 'unknown' delay before it's sent to the service provider. I'd guess the US content is 2-3s behind real-time, but that's the best out there, so we all play off the same pics
Report Big Cat August 29, 2020 4:45 PM BST
Whenever the end-to-end delay is of the order of several seconds, there's always the potential for a man-in-the-middle to have an advantage. This doesn't seem to happen too much with the US content, but it's not immune to being at a disadvantage
Report Jack Bauer '24' August 29, 2020 4:48 PM BST
The main tracks are in HD and the pics are fast with minimal delay. The smaller tracks like Charles Town and Penn are not in HD and the delay is greater.
Report Big Cat August 29, 2020 4:49 PM BST
Good shout Jack, not all tracks are equal
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 4:50 PM BST
Use whatever they are using on the fast hd tracks?
Report Big Cat August 29, 2020 4:51 PM BST
Just a shame the liquidity is virtually zero; and the fact the racing pans out in slow motion. There are some reasonably big sectional layers, but if you see a big number go up for something way out in front, it's highly likely to snuff it on the run-in
Report HappyHibby August 29, 2020 6:01 PM BST
not much pausing / stuttering or spluttering at Monmouth there...

compare that to what we have been served up on ATR tracks for the last week or so...

CryCryCry
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 6:08 PM BST
Saratoga loads like lightening and clear as fk as well

Better pics thousands of miles away than on our doorstep, madness
Report HappyHibby August 29, 2020 6:19 PM BST
i bet if liquidity started going through the roof the quality of pics would (as if by magic) suddenly decline james...

very odd...
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 6:22 PM BST
wahey
piece o p1ss this yank racing
looks like Ive got a new revenue stream Laugh
Gruss silks, why arnt there any?
Report ProSniper August 29, 2020 6:25 PM BST
Good luck trying to escape bad spot dusty Laugh
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 6:27 PM BST
Laugh
I was just thinking Id play till I get chinned
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 6:31 PM BST
watch the stewards 321, they fling them out for anything over there
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 6:33 PM BST
look how quickly that format loads over there, smooth as fk as well

betfair gotta try same format for uk
Report HappyHibby August 29, 2020 6:36 PM BST
we've still not been told why the format changed a week ago james...

was fine up until then (with the odd glitch of course)...
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 6:37 PM BST
Track-Sloppy
Got to love em
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 6:40 PM BST
The different coloured number cloth keeps throwing me
Why dont they have same coloured silks ffs
Report jamesdean August 29, 2020 6:45 PM BST
you cant have a fast live video in hd pics and silks on the jockies ffs...greedy ****
Report ProSniper August 29, 2020 6:45 PM BST
The numbers are ****g HUGE Laugh unless you sleep upside down,, I don't know how anyone could struggle to identify Laugh
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 6:53 PM BST
Because Im used to looking at the silks not the numbers
Its like that psychology test where they have words of colours in colours different to the word
Just put the silks up ffs

or ill keep me 2 quid to mesen
Report HappyHibby August 29, 2020 6:54 PM BST
silks are on ATR website if that helps dustybin...
Report dustybin August 29, 2020 6:56 PM BST
ta but neyaw
I want em there next to the runner
Its like they dont want liquidity
Report HappyHibby August 29, 2020 6:57 PM BST
the colours would help liquidity for sure...

very odd.
Report Latalomne August 29, 2020 7:15 PM BST
It's sickening how much easier the American horses go in that the UK ones do!  It's not just luck.
Report Latalomne August 29, 2020 7:16 PM BST
(to the stalls, I mean)
Report Big Cat August 29, 2020 7:52 PM BST
Betfair don't provide the pictures. They rely on the 'rights holders'. The rights holders {TRP/RTV} (for reasons I don't know) use different Service Providers for UK/Irish and US
The US stuff goes via a SP who do ultra-low latency. BF are the customer. The customer will have some influence, but obviously not enough. The potential for a man-in-the-middle is therefore widespread and always has been. The latency for UK/Irish means that court-siding is still a fruitful endeavour, albeit with slowly diminishing ease
This streaming knowledge is public, but only via nerdy trade magazines and suchlike
Report Big Cat August 29, 2020 7:58 PM BST
But as I've indicated before, BF get the same service as BQ, same as 365, same as the entire industry. That's cos it's the rights holder who decides which internet service provider to use for the varying content. The nasty bit is that the UK stuff goes via a 3rd party who have been associated with alleged complicity in the past (hearsay I must emphasise)
Report cheburekito September 3, 2020 3:04 PM BST
liquidity is getting worse on a daily basis, wondering how long till 200k will be pretty much standard before off time
Report HappyHibby September 3, 2020 3:10 PM BST
before off time...?

after the race has finished morelike...

plain to see that in running liquidity is grinding to a halt now...

the figures between 1.01 and 1.3 are at the laughable stage imv...
Report HappyHibby December 18, 2020 1:28 PM GMT
BLV for ATR tracks is disgusting today...

Ascot was unwatchable there.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk December 18, 2020 1:45 PM GMT
all 3 atr/sky pics are terrible today. Uttox, Ascot, and Southwell
WD, got the trifecta up!
Useless firm.
Report Wesdag December 18, 2020 1:52 PM GMT
snap Cry
Report dustybin December 18, 2020 1:55 PM GMT
It is embarrassing for ATR
To see the rival pic provider continually rubbing their faces in it
Report ItsMeSwaddle December 18, 2020 2:06 PM GMT
They cant care or are financially incentivised not to care.

It really is embarrassing.
Report swiftynifty December 21, 2020 1:12 PM GMT
That winner was odds on as they straightened up on my screen, maybe 8 lengths behind the front 2 and behind the Queen's horse which was going just as well.
I suggest the pics are at least 4 secs off live today, unless the thin markets see the rapid drop in price by a 'genuine' punter with a view.
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