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Poulakerry
06 May 20 09:49
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Date Joined: 20 Apr 01
| Topic/replies: 37 | Blogger: Poulakerry's blog
At the beginning of the extensive essay on Enable in Timeform's recently published 'Racehorses of 2019', the writer comments on the decline in the broad appeal of racing by citing the result of the TV Times magazine poll in 1966 for the most popular personality of the year, the result of which was:

1st  Arkle
2nd Bobby Moore
3rd The Beatles

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Replies: 59
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 09:54
Well that astonishes me a poll taken in England had a horse above an England captain in a World Cup winning year.
By:
jackdaw
When: 06 May 20 10:15
Well Arkle won his 3rd consecutive Gold Cup that year, beating the top class Mill House by half a circuit of Cheltenham. Whilst England played all their matches at Wembley it amused me to see that one of the group games was played at White City because Wembley's owners refused to cancel the Friday night dog racing!
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 10:29
Thanks jackdaw for pointing out arkle achievements ,the dog bit amuses me as well something tells me a greyhound fixture would no longer take priority over an England international,how times change.
By:
differentdrum
When: 06 May 20 10:33
How times have changed.

These days how many racehorses could the general public even name - Red Rum, Shergar?
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 10:35
Dessie ,frankel,tiger roll ,
By:
no-won-sun
When: 06 May 20 11:23
I'm not really surprised, in fact, I do believe the religion that football has now become, started after the world cup win in 1966 on a phased curve. I remember the era quite well, I was in London and drinking in Hammersmith on the night of the final. No one would know that the match was taking place if they had gone in there. It was all quiet and I don't recall a television on the premises. Near closing time a few guys came in and they were singing and doing a bit of celebrating. I actually recall hearing a bloke ask "What's going on." Somebody told him England had won the world cup. Next thing I remember the guys got a bit too loud and were asked to leave.
Another thing football did not have the wall to wall coverage it enjoys today. Match of the Day was in its infancy and as I recall it the clubs were opposed to any coverage of soccer even highlights they feared a drop in attendance. At the same time racing was a popular pastime with a betting opportunity for the man in the street when betting on games was not widely available and also, and I'm pushing on now, I believe there was more coverage of racing due to the above. I recall in 1970 and the early 70's in general due to publicity football took off bigtime. I also recall the tubes on Saturday being constantly wrecked on the way from games with constant announcements indicating that the tubes were returning to base and apologising for the fact that they had been destroyed by vandals.
No I'm not surprised by the above survey.
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 11:26
Very interesting that no won sun thank you.
By:
sparrow
When: 06 May 20 12:12
I was 19 years old in 1966 and simply do not in anyway believe that survey is representative of opinion at that time.
By:
sparrow
When: 06 May 20 12:13
* any way believe
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 06 May 20 12:23
That 1966 poll also quoted in Robin Oakley's book

Sixty Years of Jump Racing: From Arkle to McCoy

Type: tv times 1966 magazine poll into google and the link will take you to the page

Not saying that makes it true, but I presume it's a different source
By:
onlooker
When: 06 May 20 12:35
Speaking of 'Dogs' - and the 1966 World Cup

Pickles (born 1962 or 1963; died 1967) was a black and white collie dog, known for his role in finding the stolen Jules Rimet Trophy in March 1966, four months before the 1966 World Cup was scheduled to kick off in England.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 06 May 20 12:42
Perhaps the readership of the TV Times at the time was mainly middle aged / older people who enjoyed a flutter.

Whereas a pop music magazine at the time would have seen the Beatles win by a distance, with the Rolling Stones in second place?
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 06 May 20 12:52
Apparently at the time the TV Times was only served the London area, so not even a national poll.

The magazine was launched in London on 22 September 1955, at the start of transmissions of the first ITV station, Associated-Rediffusion. Initially, the magazine was published only in the London area, carrying listings for Associated-Rediffusion (Rediffusion, London from 1964) on weekdays and ATV London at weekends, while the other ITV regions were served by their own listings magazines. TVTimes became a national magazine on 21 September 1968.
By:
TheAnorak
When: 06 May 20 12:55
This sounds like one of those things that get put up somewhere on the net, and become accepted as fact by other people (Timeform, Oakley), who are just repeating something they've found via Google.

TV Times was only sold in the London ITV region and only listed their programs. Mostly it was a magazine that followed the example of the film mags that were popular post war. It was all profiles and interviews with the stars of ITV programs, pages of ads for package holiday and holiday camps and I don't remember it ever having any sports content. I should add that my mother was a dedicated reader of TV Times, which was delivered to our house weekly.

If Arkle really won a poll for their readership, it must have been based on a campaign in Kilburn!
By:
TheAnorak
When: 06 May 20 12:55
You beat me to it George!
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 06 May 20 12:57
At least they couldn't be accused of bias given racing was shown at the BBC at the time.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 06 May 20 13:00
Anorak, the poll is also quoted on page 130 of Sean Magee's book on Arkle
By:
The Knight
When: 06 May 20 13:04
Pickles the dog apparently died when he was strangled to death by his own lead.

I wrote an article way back in 1998 (prior to that year's World Cup Finals) for the New Law Journal about the legal implications of a dog finding something so valuable, that's how I found out about his untimely demise!
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 13:16
Blimey the knight you could write more books than Agatha Christie Wink
By:
The Knight
When: 06 May 20 13:28
It's funny you say that, Foxy.

The world that existed just before me, and also when I was younger, threw up so much interesting stuff to research and write about. I was only ever a part-time writer as a profitable hobby but the material was all there.

I still have a lot of stuff on file I could write about but the demise of printed media has narrowed my markets, as many of the online publications are too young for me and are just not interested in history anymore (a scandal!)

Nowadays, because our society is so bland and often joyless, there is far less to write about. 

I will leave you with something you might like to research.

Take a look for the stuff about the only female pilot to have flown Concorde. Her story is truly amazing and deserves a much wider audience. What she did could not happen today.
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 13:45
Thanks the knight I must have got mixed up with my last post I thought I was on your tales threadCrazy
By:
driver2
When: 06 May 20 14:13
no-won-sun, it didn't take the 66 World Cup final, which incidentally reached a record 30 million people in the UK alone, to make the game popular. You might have been having a pint, but "the whole world and his brother" was glued to the tv and what a reward we all got. Have you ever heard of the "White Horse Cup final" of 1923, an estimated 300,000 got into Wembley that day. Where were you on that terrible evening of the 6th February 1958? There was nothing else on the front pages for days while we waited for Matt Busby to pull through. I could go on and on and talk about Matthews, Mortensen, Finney who were icons before I was born, but I think I've made my point. We didn't bet on football in those days, we went to watch it in far greater numbers than horse racing (which has always been my passion, despite my argument}.
By:
differentdrum
When: 06 May 20 14:21
Why would there be some sort of perceived London bias towards Arkle?

If the survey had been nationwide I see no reason to believe the result would be any different.
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 14:29
Driver what was the white horse called in the Bolton West Ham 23 final?
By:
sparrow
When: 06 May 20 14:32
driver2 is spot on about the popularity of football prior to 1970 the year which no-won-sun mentions. You only have to look at match attendances to realise that.
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 14:35
I think uniteds biggest attendance was when they had to use main road after the war and as I hope you all now finished 75 years ago
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 06 May 20 14:44
The Knight,

Nice write ups on your 'Racecourse Tales' thread. Happy

Take a look for the stuff about the only female pilot to have flown Concorde. Her story is truly amazing and deserves a much wider audience. What she did could not happen today.

As an aerospace consultant i was interested in the above, but it's not strictly true, there were actually a couple of other female pilots, both French, in fact one of them was part of the Aérospatiale flight test team (she was the first to fly the aircraft, but not operationally).

Nowadays of course, female pilots are commonplace, but considering many modern airliners are 'flown' by computers, almost every man and his dog with training could probably do the same, that leads me to an old joke.

In years to come computer technology will be so advanced that aircraft will be flown by a pilot and his dog. The pilot is there to feed the dog, and the dog is there to bite the pilot in case he touches anything.
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 14:47
The way it’s going there will be no airplanes to fly
By:
driver2
When: 06 May 20 14:49
foxy, I didn't know that he was called Billie without looking it up, I doubt whether many people would get that one. Good quiz question.
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 14:51
Here’s one for you sparrow I know you like your football.

Just sat listening to the wireless the 230 news bulletin with sport.

Bayern Munich a team I have a lot of respect for have offered city 75 million for a player I am sat thinking the world is on its knees and you get a football team offering 75 million.

Then came city’s reply we would sooner keep him another season till his contract runs out than do such a cheap deal.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 06 May 20 14:52
The other thing about that poll, if you could vote for the Beatles as one rather than individuals, why didn't the same apply to the England team?

Answers on a postcard...
By:
The Knight
When: 06 May 20 14:53
andrew.in.sweden

I think the girl I am referring to was the first female to fly the aircraft on a commercial flight and certainly the first BA woman pilot to fly it. If you know better, though, please let me know as the story interests me greatly.

But the girl I am talking about had the most humble background and appeared to have got to fly Concorde entirely through hard work and determination.
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 14:54
Driver it’s probably a hard question nowadays but was a very popular question in the pub quizzes back when people talked to each other in pubs.

Thanks for your honesty take care
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 14:56
Hello George have we now got a resident detective to go with the many scientists we have?
By:
sparrow
When: 06 May 20 14:58
It's appalling when you consider mamy league clubs may not survive the current crisis. Ir reminds me of a question asked of Jimmy Hill with regard to Beckham getting £100,000 per week. He said he wasn't bothered about Beckham as his club could afford it unlike many 3rd Division clubs who were having to pay 4 figure salaries that they couldn't afford.
By:
sparrow
When: 06 May 20 14:59
Above to foxy.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 06 May 20 15:01
foxy, I think we may need a sociologist and historian too, to solve why a racehorse (albeit one as exalted as Arkle) would finish ahead of a World Cup winning side / captain in a personality poll!
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 15:02
Great character jimmy hill
By:
foxy
When: 06 May 20 15:03
I think my first post on this thread indicated my thoughts George
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