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One of the 'experts' speaking on the ITV yesterday said 'you'd add 40 pounds to horses' Jumsg rating to approximate its NH rating.
Does anyone here use that rule of thumb principle?
Just looking at the first race FHouse.
Dinard Rose *(10/1) and Royal Aide *(94/1) ran off 84 & 85 in the Irish Cesarewitch back in October.
Royal Aide bought out of JPOB's yard and will be ridden by his present trainer D G Hogan.
*machine prices
Does anyone here use that rule of thumb principle?
Just looking at the first race FHouse.
Dinard Rose *(10/1) and Royal Aide *(94/1) ran off 84 & 85 in the Irish Cesarewitch back in October.
Royal Aide bought out of JPOB's yard and will be ridden by his present trainer D G Hogan.
*machine prices
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F***** it right up.
Do you reckon you'd use their winning h'cap mark, their last mark or highest mark?
Has to be variations depending on age of horse etc.
Do you reckon you'd use their winning h'cap mark, their last mark or highest mark?
Has to be variations depending on age of horse etc.
It used to be 35 lbs difference as a (basic) 'rule of thumb.
Based on a theoretical Flat Handicap of a 10st 0lbs for ALL horses - with THE BEST Flat horse = 140 Rating ... that being 10 x 14lbs(per stone) = 140 TOP lbs/Rating
In those early days - The highest weight in Jump races (Handicaps) was 12st 7lbs (long time ago, I know)
12st 7lbs theoretical Handicap for All Jump horses - thus equals 175 lbs/Rating - (12st = 12 x 14lbs + the 7lbs) for the BEST Jumps horse ...
Hence the 'add 35' lbs/Rating difference.... difference between 140 (Flat) and 175 (Jumps)
However - Very, very few Flat horses get anywhere near 140 nowadays - Frankel apart - and Dancing Brave 33 years ago.
Meanwhile Official Jumps ratings have somewhat exponentially - or artificially - increased over the years - take your pick - due to the competition between horses like Best Mate and Denman ... who got themselves Officially Rated well into the 180s.
Those are the extremes, though - and, as a 'rule of thumb, nowadays, you are looking at a difference of 40-45 lbs for a mid-range Flat horse rated in a band of, say 66-88... BUT - there is, and NEVER has been, any 'hard and fast' rule.
Unlike the old days - before the proliferation of ALL-WEATHER racing - far FEWER Flat horses now, sadly, try their hand at Hurdles - in Britain, at least.
Sadly, because some great former Hurdlers - such as Sea Pigeon, Alderbrook et al, were top-class Flat horses, too.
You won't/don't get that nowadays - due to the All-Weather Championships (and corresponding Prize-Money) - not to mention mooching off to Meydan, for the Desert dosh.
Based on a theoretical Flat Handicap of a 10st 0lbs for ALL horses - with THE BEST Flat horse = 140 Rating ... that being 10 x 14lbs(per stone) = 140 TOP lbs/Rating
In those early days - The highest weight in Jump races (Handicaps) was 12st 7lbs (long time ago, I know)
12st 7lbs theoretical Handicap for All Jump horses - thus equals 175 lbs/Rating - (12st = 12 x 14lbs + the 7lbs) for the BEST Jumps horse ...
Hence the 'add 35' lbs/Rating difference.... difference between 140 (Flat) and 175 (Jumps)
However - Very, very few Flat horses get anywhere near 140 nowadays - Frankel apart - and Dancing Brave 33 years ago.
Meanwhile Official Jumps ratings have somewhat exponentially - or artificially - increased over the years - take your pick - due to the competition between horses like Best Mate and Denman ... who got themselves Officially Rated well into the 180s.
Those are the extremes, though - and, as a 'rule of thumb, nowadays, you are looking at a difference of 40-45 lbs for a mid-range Flat horse rated in a band of, say 66-88... BUT - there is, and NEVER has been, any 'hard and fast' rule.
Unlike the old days - before the proliferation of ALL-WEATHER racing - far FEWER Flat horses now, sadly, try their hand at Hurdles - in Britain, at least.
Sadly, because some great former Hurdlers - such as Sea Pigeon, Alderbrook et al, were top-class Flat horses, too.
You won't/don't get that nowadays - due to the All-Weather Championships (and corresponding Prize-Money) - not to mention mooching off to Meydan, for the Desert dosh.
I would say 40lb is on the low side, I would say 45 a better indicator
if a horse is coming back to the flat I always look for a horse that is rated 50lb or more below it's hurdles mark as being 'well-in'
if a horse is coming back to the flat I always look for a horse that is rated 50lb or more below it's hurdles mark as being 'well-in'
There is a big range because some flat horses are backward and never get to demonstrate their true ability while others have begun the slide from a relatively high rating as they lose interest in racing. That is why 2 horses with the same flat going through the horses in training sale can make very different prices from jump trainers.
Meanwhile Official Jumps ratings have somewhat exponentially - or artificially - increased over the years - take your pick
Well said onlooker.Over the last 15 years or so ratings in England have gone up and up.Has the thoroughbred horse really improved that much?
Well said onlooker.Over the last 15 years or so ratings in England have gone up and up.Has the thoroughbred horse really improved that much?
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