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acey deucy
19 Aug 19 21:55
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Date Joined: 29 Sep 02
| Topic/replies: 24,509 | Blogger: acey deucy's blog
Went to fast.Shocked
Pause Switch to Standard View Freddie Slating De Sousa On Zoffee...
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Report acey deucy August 19, 2019 9:56 PM BST
Bit harsh considering he was only beaten a head ffs.
Report weary August 20, 2019 6:42 AM BST
I think his point was that he might have won by a head if ridden with a little restraint, who knows ?
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 10:07 AM BST
hmmmm, and if he'd set steadier fractions and then been beaten a head, someone would say he should have gone faster?

There's one telling fact here - and that is the distance back to the 3rd - officially 10 lengths, it looked more like 20 imo!

He's absolutely slaughtered the rest of them, but just been unlucky to have run into a relatively unexposed one of Varian's who was having just his 3rd turf start, and who himself, had pulled well clear with 2 others at Newbury last time.
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 10:15 AM BST
And I'll tell you why Freddie has got this one wrong, because Zoffee is going to go up to a career high mark, and this will probably be backed up by a career-best RPR.
So the figures will say, the horse has run a PB.
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 10:18 AM BST
And actually, looking on the BHA site, it looks like his mark had already been revised up a 1lb because the horse he beat last time, Oh It's Saucepot, has come out and won since.
Report acey deucy August 20, 2019 2:02 PM BST
George you have got that spot on buddy.If I had backed the Horse I would have been more than happy with that ride and I thought Freddie should have known better.
Report FELTFAIR August 20, 2019 2:52 PM BST
Race ran over six seconds above standard so I would suggest they did not go too fast and would agree with the comment below that Zoffee got collared by a "relatively unexposed" opponent.
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 3:13 PM BST
The 3 races on the sprint track were comparatively quick furlong-per-furlong, the 3 races on the round track were comparatively on the slow side, but the time of the race in question was on a par f-p-f with the C4 older horse handicap over 2f shorter.

The 6 secs over standard could just be a reflection that the ground was slower on the round course rather than a reflection of a steady pace, imo.
Report weary August 20, 2019 3:45 PM BST
I think the point of the debate is did he go too hard too early and set the race up, if that's the case it wouldn't necessarily follow that the time would be quicker, sectional timing expert needed.
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 4:20 PM BST
Rail movement added 18 yards to the races on the round course.

Whatever, he's pulled a long way clear of the rest and run right through the line, probably running a PB in the process.
Report acey deucy August 20, 2019 4:26 PM BST
Exactly George the Horse was not even stopping at the line.
Report impossible123 August 20, 2019 4:42 PM BST
Who's Freddie, please?
Report FELTFAIR August 20, 2019 4:48 PM BST
Freddie Flintstone.
Report michael59 August 20, 2019 4:56 PM BST
i just thought it was refreshing that an ex jockey now racing pundit had the balls to criticise , whether hes correct or not isnt the point , it was HIS  opinion and ive read over the years 1000s of threads of disgruntled forumites bitiching about pundits not having the balls to slag any jockeys bad ride . the 1st time freds gone at one hes ****ed , well fred if i was you i would just play the game like the other racing pundit muppets . sheeeeessssh
Report Applewine August 20, 2019 5:03 PM BST
Why pick on a Jockey who was obviously trying!!, pretty sure Freddy sees plenty who are not, much better to expose these
Report acey deucy August 20, 2019 5:09 PM BST
Good one apple.Laugh
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 5:09 PM BST
Michael, in today's paper there's praise for Ruby Walsh because he's been having a pop at jockeys in his role as a pundit on RTV.

But all it amounted to was saying the jockey had the whip in the wrong hand, and on the first occasion he had a pop, the jockey (Shane Foley at Galway) actually won the race!

Btw, no-one's having a pop at Freddie cuz he's apparently criticised a jock for getting the fractions wrong, in his opinion, what is being debated is whether what he said was correct!
Report michael59 August 20, 2019 5:19 PM BST
george , i get that but it was his opinion that the horse ran better being held up , thats all as previously it had won after being held up. now just because the horse was used upfront and got beat a small margin people are saying thats unfair criticism . but lets play devils advocate if he had held it up and it won by 3 lengths we wouldnt have this thread but he didnt , as they say if my aunt had balls she would be me uncle
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 5:24 PM BST
The horse wasn't held up last time when it won over C/D, Michael.

keen hold, tracked leader, led 3f out, asserted 2f out, stayed on well
Report impossible123 August 20, 2019 5:25 PM BST
I'm no jockey however, if Tylicki reckoned De Sousa got the fractions wrong (possibly) and got beat as a result well done to Tylicki for his opinion and speaking out. I believe getting the fractions wrong and getting beat is just as bad as having a horse too far back and only just getting beat. Both horses were beaten because their jockeys got their skill-set wrong.

I think Tylicki is right to opine as he was a jockey himself until that unfortunate incident. But, whether he's correct or not is debatable.
Report michael59 August 20, 2019 5:28 PM BST
keen hold, tracked leader, led 3f out, asserted 2f out, stayed on well, george look at the race he bustled it up straight from the get go to lead totally different to the hold up tactics when it it won
Report acey deucy August 20, 2019 5:34 PM BST
By the way I am a big fan of Freddie's and  fair play to him for speaking his mind I just think he got it wrong on this occasion.
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 5:38 PM BST
Well had the horse stopped to nothing at the half-furlong pole, I might have agreed with yourself and Freddie, but the horse didn't, in fact, he kept on extending his lead over the rest of the field right up to the finish line, and it took what was probably a well handicapped, unexposed Varian-trained 3YO, to get past him.

The other point is, to say had the horse been ridden any other way he'd have won, is simply an opinion, what is likely to be fact, however, is that the horse will have earned career best ratings.

Which therefore begs the question, would this have been possible if the horse had been ridden with an inefficient distribution of energy?
Report impossible123 August 20, 2019 5:41 PM BST
Maybe next time he could ask a friend eg Moore, go 50-50 (say nothing like most pundits) or ask this forum or the horse.
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 5:46 PM BST
weary has a point, we need a sectional time expert.

Visual impressions can be deceiving

EG Telecaster in the Dante, how many people watching might have thought when Murphy was clear with the pacemaker, they were going too fast?

However, the sectionals disproved this.
Report michael59 August 20, 2019 5:53 PM BST
freds main point was that he was surprised at the way it was ridden compared to being held up when it won , its pure conjecture as to what would have happened if this had been the case this time and saying its achieved career best ratings finishing 2nd means eff all now as if it had won being held up it would also of achieved career best ratings ffs so thats of no effing relevance , absolute joke statement imho , but hey its all about opinions
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 5:55 PM BST
keen hold, tracked leader, led 3f out, asserted 2f out, stayed on well

^ when he won over the same C/D, this is not being held-up!
Report michael59 August 20, 2019 6:03 PM BST
tracked leaders is the key here george , this time he aggressively pushed his mount to the front and got beat ffs , now stop it ur starting to look like a fool
Report acey deucy August 20, 2019 6:05 PM BST
Come on lads keep it friendly.Plain
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 6:07 PM BST
So Michael, when he earns a career-best official rating, a career-best RPR and a career-best Timeform rating, are those 3 handicappers fools too?
Report michael59 August 20, 2019 6:20 PM BST
if different tactics are used and he is held up and wins his rating would have gone up further , fred just said he was surprised he was ridden the way he was was ridden compared to when he won , thats all , now tbh ratings are just opinions of the handicapper etc and we will never know if ridden differently he would have won , so in this case ratings mean eff all , its about riding the horse to attain the best finishing position and fred thought he got it wrong ok. thats it im done
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 6:26 PM BST
Ridden the way he was, it is highly likely the horse is going to be given career high ratings

And that is, higher ratings than he got last time, when you claim he was held up.
Report michael59 August 20, 2019 6:28 PM BST
cant wait to see its next race now ffs
Report GEORGE.B August 20, 2019 6:31 PM BST
which is likely to be off a career-high rating, having been ridden on its latest start to put in a career-best effort
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